Alcaraz and Sinner have completely figured Medvedev out.

S

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
These guys are just 20 and 22, but are 9-1 vs Medvedev in their past 10 matches. Medvedev is supposed to be the best of his generation, grizzled veteran of 6 slam finals, and he’s getting slaughtered by a couple of kids. How much more evidence is needed that the period before the rise of Sinner and Alcaraz is the weakest in history?
 
dking68

dking68

Legend
mike danny said:
I mean, the Med/Zed/Tsits generation getting overtaken by better players was always going to happen. But they only have themselves to blame for not taking their opportunities and we can't say they didn't have many.
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Do you think J. Sinner (ITA) will have a better career than I. Lendl (CZE)?
 
Fabresque

Fabresque

Legend
Sadly yes. Medvedev was just another Hewitt/Roddick type player. Stopgap between the previous Sampras/Agassi gen going into Federer.

Med was after the B3 and before Sincaraz. He probably should’ve won like 4/5 slams but the big 3 refused to stop which cost him a much better career.
 
Tennisfan339

Tennisfan339

Professional
Not so fast. Medvedev had a bad day at the office today. Nothing worked. It happens every once in a while. Maybe he was sick or bothered by the conditions, I don't know. We can't forget that he still leads the H2H, beat him twice last year. And their last 4 matches were very close. 7-6 7-6 in Beijing, 2 gruelling 3 sets in Vienna and Italy, and 5 hours in Melbourne. One Masters1000 match doesn't mean anything.

Medvedev has always sucked in IW and it's literally Alcaraz's favorite hard court tournament. Remove the 2 IW matches and the H2H is 2-2. The Italy match was a dead rubber, Medvedev clearly tanked. He still leads the Slam H2H (2-1) and breadsticked him in New York. A bit too soon to conclude he has figured him out.
 
Razer

Razer

Legend
Whats so special/surprising about Medvedev to make a thread ?

He is a davydenko level player who got lucky with a slam.... we've known it all along.

Are you surprised? He was always going to be surpassed by his next gen superiors who are still pre prime.
 
B

bhpower

Semi-Pro
I think Zverev was the better talent out of Tsitsipas/Medvedev/him but he couldn't deliver for a few reasons.
Medvedev had some luck luck to reach the number one and win a slam, some lucky cirmcunstances and I don't think he's better than players such as Tsonga, Berdych or Raonic.
though He's very solid and still can give Sinner and Alcaraz problems on medium/fast hardcourt, especially indoors.
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Sputnik Bulgorov said:
These guys are just 20 and 22, but are 9-1 vs Medvedev in their past 10 matches. Medvedev is supposed to be the best of his generation, grizzled veteran of 6 slam finals, and he’s getting slaughtered by a couple of kids. How much more evidence is needed that the period before the rise of Sinner and Alcaraz is the weakest in history?
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Medvedev is very close to getting his Finnish passport.
:laughing:
 
BauerAlmeida

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
OOH, it looks like that way looking and most recent matches. But also Medvedev beat Alcaraz comfortably at the USO and was 2-0 up vs Sinner at the AO. I would favor Sinnaraz more often than not but would not rule out a victory for Medvedev 100%.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Medvedev had beaten Sinner in his first 6 matches. Sinner looked clueless and it looked like that was going to be a terrible matchup. What does Sinner do? Turn on the engines and won the next 5 in a row. Yea he has Medvedev figured out for sure. I'm not so sure Alcaraz does after how Medevdev beat him at the USO. I still think Medevdev will have his chances in a BO5 against them considering how close he was in the AO final.
 
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Terenigma

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
It's not hard to figure Medvedev out when he stands on mars to return serve and he's quick but not THAT quick so you can simply move him around the court, his hitting may be unorthodox and unpredictable but his movement is not and that's where he's losing matches (imo)
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
bhpower said:
I think Zverev was the better talent out of Tsitsipas/Medvedev/him but he couldn't deliver for a few reasons.
Medvedev had some luck luck to reach the number one and win a slam, some lucky cirmcunstances and I don't think he's better than players such as Tsonga, Berdych or Raonic.
though He's very solid and still can give Sinner and Alcaraz problems on medium/fast hardcourt, especially indoors.
Click to expand...
Zverev has a terrible volley, his second serve is a great weakness, his forehand is unstable, his mentality does not resemble that of the best in history; even despite his obvious weaknesses, he still has time to win a couple of Majors before he turns 30 and can no longer surpass either Sinner or Alcaraz.
:D
 
Better_Call_Raul

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
-snake- said:
He only has himself to blame for choking away that AO vs Ned.
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tennis3 said:
Meddy was up 2-0 at AO before tiring and losing to Sinner.
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It is the Australian Open Final. Med is a young guy. You suck it up and play.
The older Rafa coming off serious injuries came back from 0-2 against Med.
Cannot blame the loss on fatigue. Fatigue was not the primary factor.
Sinner was playing his first Final and nerves settled down in third set. Med got tight after going up 2-0.
Med failed to close out a 2-0 lead in a Slam Final. Again.
 
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mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fabresque said:
Sadly yes. Medvedev was just another Hewitt/Roddick type player. Stopgap between the previous Sampras/Agassi gen going into Federer.

Med was after the B3 and before Sincaraz. He probably should’ve won like 4/5 slams but the big 3 refused to stop which cost him a much better career.
Click to expand...
Not quite. Med only has himself to blame for not winning more slams. AO 2022, USO 2020 and AO 2024 were all winnable.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fabresque said:
Sadly yes. Medvedev was just another Hewitt/Roddick type player. Stopgap between the previous Sampras/Agassi gen going into Federer.

Med was after the B3 and before Sincaraz. He probably should’ve won like 4/5 slams but the big 3 refused to stop which cost him a much better career.
Click to expand...
If Med was Hewitt/Roddick level, he'd have 4 slams right now.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I'll wait and see what they do against him at the Slams before definitively deciding if they now have his number. They already seem to have it in Bo3 affairs.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Mainad said:
I'll wait and see what they do against him at the Slams before definitively deciding if they now have his number. They already seem to have it in Bo3 affairs.
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As of now they have beaten him in 2 of the last 3 majors, although Wimb was a gimme like it was supposed to and AO was pretty fortunate.
 
Keizer

Keizer

Hall of Fame
tennis3 said:
Meddy was up 2-0 at AO before tiring and losing to Sinner. I'm not so sure Sinner "figured him out".

Meddy will do fine against Alcaraz on faster hardcourt. But not at IW.
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So many have been up 2-0 before losing. Tsitsipas was up 2-0 vs Djokovic in the RG final, but when he did that the narrative is "Djokovic was just conserving strength for the first two sets".

Medvedev said it himself in the presser after this match - he was trying to go aggressive again because of his success in the AO but couldn't get it going. That makes complete sense - his default style does not trouble Sinner anymore because Sinner can match him in the BH to BH rallies, can take time away from him by playing on the rise, and has a world class return that exposes his serve anytime he has an off-day. Medvedev's serve rating according to the metric the ATP tour now calculates during the first set today was 7.6 (not far from his 52 week average of 8.0) and he got broken 2 times. Plus, Sinner is now serving "10x better than last year" (Medvedev's words, not mine).

Unless Medvedev somehow becomes a player who can be consistent as the aggressor, he is going to be facing an uphill battle every time he plays Sinner. To take the first 2 sets off Sinner he had to do something he had never done before against him (hyper aggressive style) and be extremely successful at it. Plus it was his first GS final. Medvedev has had 5 matches to figure this new Sinner out and he has not found a reliable tactic against him. I don't think this is a 50-50 matchup anymore.
 
G

guga_fan

Professional
I don’t find it only a question of figuring him out. Medvedev has flat out regressed because of his declined serve.

A campaign similar to the one he had in USO21 seems basically impossible these days. He used to be very hard to break and could break opponents at will on HCs. Nowadays he has trouble against every other player but somehow survives up until Finals or Semifinals.

The only standout match from him recently was at the USO against Carlos.
 
S

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
Fabresque said:
Sadly yes. Medvedev was just another Hewitt/Roddick type player. Stopgap between the previous Sampras/Agassi gen going into Federer.

Med was after the B3 and before Sincaraz. He probably should’ve won like 4/5 slams but the big 3 refused to stop which cost him a much better career.
Click to expand...

Medvedev is a full 8 years younger than Djokovic and 9 years younger than Nadal. He’s 6 years older than Sinner and 8 years older than Alcaraz. He hit his peak when Djokovic/Nadal were declining and Sinner/Alcaraz weren’t relevant. His timing was fortunate, but he couldn’t take advantage. There’s no universe where he wins 4/5 slams.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fabresque said:
AO 22 yes. USO 2020, no. Thiem was too good in the SF. AO 2024 he did everything he possibly could, his body failed him.
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Thiem was good, but not even winning a set? And if your main obstacle is just Thiem, then it is a winnable slam.

At AO 2024 he should've been more efficient. It's not like he had to beat Djokovic and Nadal in grueling 5 setters. Other than Zverev, all the other opponents should have been beaten in easier fashion.
 
S

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
NoleFam said:
Medvedev had beaten Sinner in his first 6 matches. Sinner looked clueless and it looked like that was going to be a terrible matchup. What does Sinner do? Turn on the engines and won the next 5 in a row. Yea he has Medvedev figured out for sure. I'm not so sure Alcaraz does after how Medevdev beat him at the USO. I still think Medevdev will have his chances in a BO5 against them considering how close he was in the AO final.
Click to expand...

Alcaraz has still won 4 out of the past 5 matches. All 4 of Alcaraz’s wins were straight set beatings. Only one tiebreak. It’s looking more and more like his USO performance was a unicorn. And we can’t forget that Alcaraz isnt even 21 while Medvedev is already 28. Alcaraz will only get better while Medvedev will decline. It will be ugly.
 
Keizer

Keizer

Hall of Fame
guga_fan said:
I don’t find it only a question of figuring him out. Medvedev has flat out regressed because of his declined serve.

A campaign similar to the one he had in USO21 seems basically impossible these days. He used to be very hard to break and could break opponents at will on HCs. Nowadays he has trouble against every other player but somehow survives up until Finals or Semifinals.

The only standout match from him recently was at the USO against Carlos.
Click to expand...

Great take, and it's not just this tournament. He is #29 on the ATP leaderboard on their serve metric for the last 52 weeks. In 2020 he was #4, in 2021 #9, and in 2022 #14. At one point I thought that his serve would be the reason he would end up more successful than Murray, but he is not in the same class anymore.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Sputnik Bulgorov said:
Medvedev is a full 8 years younger than Djokovic and 9 years younger than Nadal. He’s 6 years older than Sinner and 8 years older than Alcaraz. He hit his peak when Djokovic/Nadal were declining and Sinner/Alcaraz weren’t relevant. His timing was fortunate, but he couldn’t take advantage. There’s no universe where he wins 4/5 slams.
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Actually, there was one: this very one. But he didn't convert his opportunities when they presented themselves.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
It's crazy how the Next Gen have lost a combined 4 slam finals from 2-0 up. In just 5 years. Whereas this used to be a rarity before hand.

Heck, hadn't the last final lost from 2-0 up occurred at RG 2004?
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Sputnik Bulgorov said:
Alcaraz has still won 4 out of the past 5 matches. All 4 of Alcaraz’s wins were straight set beatings. Only one tiebreak. It’s looking more and more like his USO performance was a unicorn. And we can’t forget that Alcaraz isnt even 21 while Medvedev is already 28. Alcaraz will only get better while Medvedev will decline. It will be ugly.
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One of those was a dead rubber at the ATP Finals when Medvedev had already qualified for the SF. I wouldn't put much weight into that match. The way Medvedev dissected Alcaraz at the USO, I wouldn't say he has him figured out on hardcourt unless it's IW where the surface and conditions vastly favor Alcaraz over him.
 
Hood_Man

Hood_Man

G.O.A.T.
What's there to figure out? Just keep playing and wait them out, that's all it takes to beat the 90s players.

David Ferrer would have won multiple CYGS's against those guys.
 
Subway Tennis

Subway Tennis

Legend
dking68 said:
Do you think J. Sinner (ITA) will have a better career than I. Lendl (CZE)?
Click to expand...
Lendl has some pretty scary dominance metrics to match, so there will be areas that are hard for Sinner to match.

Sinner will win more majors though, because he doesn’t choke in finals like Lendl did, and he is a threat at all four majors including grass so there is a wider opportunity for him.
 
M

merwy

G.O.A.T.
-snake- said:
He only has himself to blame for choking away that AO vs Ned.
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What about Tsitsipas going 2-0 up in set against Djokovic at Roland Garros? Man.. what an opportunity to win a slam and I'm pretty sure he'll never win one now. Same goes for Zverev against Thiem at the USO (after which Z said something along the lines of "I'm sure I'll win a slam sooner or later")
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
merwy said:
What about Tsitsipas going 2-0 up in set against Djokovic at Roland Garros? Man.. what an opportunity to win a slam and I'm pretty sure he'll never win one now. Same goes for Zverev against Thiem at the USO (after which Z said something along the lines of "I'm sure I'll win a slam sooner or later")
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I'm sure Zverev wishes he'd won that when he had the chance. His choking tendencies 4 years later still haven't dissipated.

As for Tsitsipas, man, how well things lined up for him in 2021 and he choked every match he played vs Nadal and Djokovic during the clay season.
 
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