FreeBird
Legend
Yes, maybe I am wrong in arguing about 2006-07. But I believe, Djokovic could have defeated Federer in 2008.
Djokovic's US Open or Federer's RG
- Thread starter edk1512
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Yes, maybe I am wrong in arguing about 2006-07. But I believe, Djokovic could have defeated Federer in 2008.
Tennis7296
New User
Using the current ATP point system:
Federer in RG: 10+180+360+10+10+90+720+1200+1200+1200+2000+360+1200+720+360=9620
Djokovic in USO:
90+90+1200+720+720+1200+2000+1200+1200=8420
So, for now the answer is Federer in RG (even though it could change this year).
Federer in RG: 10+180+360+10+10+90+720+1200+1200+1200+2000+360+1200+720+360=9620
Djokovic in USO:
90+90+1200+720+720+1200+2000+1200+1200=8420
So, for now the answer is Federer in RG (even though it could change this year).
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, and that's fine. Anyway, it's all moot since Nadal does exist.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
So do we. It would've been 50-50. But that's still one final IF he won of course cause I'm sure Fed would've liked his chances against Djokovic in the final. 2005-2007 and 2011 Federer takes the cake for sure.
naslamchamp
Banned
I mostly agree, but they didnt play in 2007 on clay did they. So without a match on clay to go by it is hard to say how they would match up this year. From 2007-2009 Djokovic generally played Federer even all around, and on clay, Federer's worst surface by far, Djokovic's chances would only go up. He did beat Federer that summer on fast hard courts, Federer's favorite surface, and clearly should have won atleast 1 set of their U.s Open final on very fast hard courts. Slow courts favor Djokovic much more, the slow court specialist.
If you want to be conservative, Federer would have a minimum of 3 RG titles without Nadal.
My guess is that he'd have at least 4 and probably five.
Be conservative an say Fed only wins 2 in the span of 2005-08, losing twice to Djokovic or whatever combination you want to use. That is two. He won 2009 outright and beat Djokovic and lost to Nadal in 2011, so it is a stretch to not give him that.
My guess is Federer wins 2005. I'll say from 2006-08, Federer gets two and Djoker gets win. Fed wins 2009. Fed wins 2011.
The fact is as far as a sustained level of excellence on clay over a period of consecutive years, Federer's clay performance from 2005-09 is probably as good as anyone over a 5 year stretch outside of the two clay GOAT's, Nadal and Borg.
In that span (2005-09), Federer played in 19 clay court tournaments during the run-up to Roland Garros from April until the slam.
Here are his stats:
Overall Record: 83-14
5 Wins (Roland Garros, Madrid, Hamburg x2, Estoril)
13 Finals (Monte Carlo x3, Hamburg x3, Rome, Madrid x2, Roland Garros x4, Estoril)
15 SF (add 1 to Roland Garros and Rome on the above list)
17 QF
14 Losses - Nadal x9 and one each to Djokovic, Gasquet, Wawrinka, Volandri and Stepanek
My guess is that he'd have at least 4 and probably five.
Be conservative an say Fed only wins 2 in the span of 2005-08, losing twice to Djokovic or whatever combination you want to use. That is two. He won 2009 outright and beat Djokovic and lost to Nadal in 2011, so it is a stretch to not give him that.
My guess is Federer wins 2005. I'll say from 2006-08, Federer gets two and Djoker gets win. Fed wins 2009. Fed wins 2011.
The fact is as far as a sustained level of excellence on clay over a period of consecutive years, Federer's clay performance from 2005-09 is probably as good as anyone over a 5 year stretch outside of the two clay GOAT's, Nadal and Borg.
In that span (2005-09), Federer played in 19 clay court tournaments during the run-up to Roland Garros from April until the slam.
Here are his stats:
Overall Record: 83-14
5 Wins (Roland Garros, Madrid, Hamburg x2, Estoril)
13 Finals (Monte Carlo x3, Hamburg x3, Rome, Madrid x2, Roland Garros x4, Estoril)
15 SF (add 1 to Roland Garros and Rome on the above list)
17 QF
14 Losses - Nadal x9 and one each to Djokovic, Gasquet, Wawrinka, Volandri and Stepanek
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Poll and topic are a bit misleading too because the thread title asks Djokovic's USO or Federer's RG which seems to ask us which one singularly is more impressive between Federer's 09 RG and Djokovic's 11 USO, but then the poll responses asks "Which one is more impressive" and the wording of the answers leads us to believe the whole body of work is what's in question.
Djokovic's USO is more impressive IMO just because he saved MP's to beat Federer and then beat Nadal, but overall, I say Federer at RG is more impressive with the logic I already gave earlier. Thread is good, but a tad misleading.
Djokovic's USO is more impressive IMO just because he saved MP's to beat Federer and then beat Nadal, but overall, I say Federer at RG is more impressive with the logic I already gave earlier. Thread is good, but a tad misleading.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Is that the reason Federer has made 5 finals and several semis ?
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
What next ? Djokovic would have taken down Fed at Wimbledon as well ?
Till 2011 AO, there was no belief on Novak's camp that he could win a match at the majors versus Fed.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
I am not sure any post after this was needed.
rocketassist
Rookie
Djokovic's back to back performance against Fedal to win the 2011 USO was something out of this world. Yet in other USO finals he's either failed to produce, or choked. Still, that was a mighty fine effort.
Federer deserved his RG, and he did well to fight off JMDP, but he ultimately had his beaten final opponent to thank for winning it.
Federer deserved his RG, and he did well to fight off JMDP, but he ultimately had his beaten final opponent to thank for winning it.
Acasuso, Haas, and del Potro all choked to him. There was nothing impressive about that. It doesn't take mental strength to watch your opponent fall apart.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Bull..
delpo didn't choke at all.
vs haas, federer hit an I/O fh winner that clipped the line when down BP at 4 all in the 3rd set.
acusaso did choke the 3rd set, but federer should've won the 2nd set anyways , so it sort of evens out.
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I have him winning 5 RG - 2005, 06, 07, 09, 11.
That's like saying there's no guarantee that Nadal would have won WTF, Miami without Federer and Nole.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
Not so sure about that. I think federer was pretty ****ed at Djokovic around that time and was beating him thoroughly in Monte Carlo before Djokovic retired due to a sore throat. Even with federer's form being inferior at RG, that would play a massive role.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
But he already proved he could do so at the 2008 AO!
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, but I'm being nice. That's the only legit toss up in all the years, so a safe guess is 5.
FreeBird
Legend
Yes AO 08 never happened. 8) At least make sense sometimes. :lol:
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Federer20042006
Banned
People are honestly picking Djokovic at the USO over Federer at the FO?
Federer was blocked by probably the greatest clay court player in history from probably 5 other RG titles.
Djokovic's 4 runner ups came against 3 different opponents.
Federer was blocked by probably the greatest clay court player in history from probably 5 other RG titles.
Djokovic's 4 runner ups came against 3 different opponents.
FreeBird
Legend
Start da Game
Hall of Fame
the point is not about who blocked who and what number of times......the point is about whose victory was greater......anyone with half a brain would say that djokovic's us open in which he beat peak fit nadal and peak federer to win the title easily takes the cake here......
Start da Game
Hall of Fame
jeez these fetars are so dense that even amazon forest would look light and sparse in comparison......
Djokovic is impressive for beating Federer and Nadal. Sorry, Federer in 2011 was not at his peak. Nadal, however, may have played as high a level he ever has, but I think Djokovic had beaten him so much that he had broken Nadal's belief at that point.
Federer was impressive, not so much for who he beat, but for his perseverance. To continue putting himself in position despite losing to Nadal every year. And, it was obvious that Nadal being upset put tremendous pressure on him to win. Pressure that obviously affected him, but he found a way to overcome it. So, both were great achievements. Why does one have to be "better"?
If I had to pick one, I'd be inclined to go with Federer simply because it completed his career slam, so there was some unique significance to it in that regard.
Federer was impressive, not so much for who he beat, but for his perseverance. To continue putting himself in position despite losing to Nadal every year. And, it was obvious that Nadal being upset put tremendous pressure on him to win. Pressure that obviously affected him, but he found a way to overcome it. So, both were great achievements. Why does one have to be "better"?
If I had to pick one, I'd be inclined to go with Federer simply because it completed his career slam, so there was some unique significance to it in that regard.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Why, just because he was 30 at the time? Fed was playing like it was 2005 all over again in that SF. I'm thinking that you didn't even watch the match.
President
Legend
Federer at his peak was a phenomenal clay court player. His 2009 win was actually not one of his better performances at that tournament, Djokovic only played one great USO and was mediocre at the rest that he has played. Federer has played at least 4 great RG tournaments over the years, he is a phenomenal clay court player and had a higher level than Djokovic did in New York.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
IMO Djokovic's level at 2011 US Open> Federer's level at every FO he's played.
NatF
Bionic Poster
A fit Federer from 2005 wouldn't have lost from 2 sets to love up like that. Sorry but his level in his peak years was clearly better. His level in sets 1 and 2 was high but after that it dropped off. He looked like he was saving energy in the 4th.
President
Legend
That's very debatable (Djokovic still had to save match points in the SF and Nadal was his pigeon at the time) but even if it's true the fact remains that it was an isolated performance. Federer was great at RG (and clay in general) day in, day out for many years.
He's a bitter Sampras fan who disparage Federer in every thread.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
So has Djokovic.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Perhaps Djokovic's level simply went up rather than Federer's dropping off.
Federer20042006
Banned
That's not what the OP was asking. The OP was asking who is better career-wise at which tournament.
Federer could have 6 FO titles right now if not for Nadal (05, 06, 07, 08, 11, in addition to 09).
Djokovic lost to 3 different players in the 4 finals he lost at the US Open.
NatF
Bionic Poster
What happened in set 5 then? There are ebbs and flows in matches but Federer's level clearly dropped. Whether it was in response to a surge from Djokovic or not is debatable. Federer played better in several other years compared to 2011. Although he did play very well in that match. It's just not up there with his very best perfomances.
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