Federer game is more complete than Djokovic
- Thread starter Aestheticsaboveallelse
- Start date
Subway Tennis
Legend
Djokovic has the best median stroke mechanics I have seen, and should be applauded for what he has done to revolutionise ageing in tennis. He has blazed a trail that I expect and hope many will follow.
With that said, there is a level of tennis beyond the drudgery of percentage play and perfect stroke mechanics. It stimulates the imagination because it can’t be achieved by just playing the percentages and following the rules. It’s a level where a player is great at the mental game of tennis and has extraordinary stroke mechanics but ascends a step higher by combinining those percentage ideals with an idiosyncratic flair for the mercurial that only they can produce uniquely and can’t be replicated by an opponent.
I have seen Djokovic play brilliantly and get beaten at his own game.
Nadal and Federer are different. When they were at their best, they each had a playing style very idiosyncratic and uniquely them.
The best way to beat Federer and Nadal was to let the sands of time gradually erode their games because at full sail they were playing with the Gods.
With that said, there is a level of tennis beyond the drudgery of percentage play and perfect stroke mechanics. It stimulates the imagination because it can’t be achieved by just playing the percentages and following the rules. It’s a level where a player is great at the mental game of tennis and has extraordinary stroke mechanics but ascends a step higher by combinining those percentage ideals with an idiosyncratic flair for the mercurial that only they can produce uniquely and can’t be replicated by an opponent.
I have seen Djokovic play brilliantly and get beaten at his own game.
Nadal and Federer are different. When they were at their best, they each had a playing style very idiosyncratic and uniquely them.
The best way to beat Federer and Nadal was to let the sands of time gradually erode their games because at full sail they were playing with the Gods.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
The Nadal god was beaten 7 time in a row on hard clay grass and hard courts.
Nadal is no god. If anyone says that reject it out of hand.
Nadal is no god. If anyone says that reject it out of hand.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Way to beat Nadal on fast courts is to go THROUGH him. Delpo did so remarkably in USopen 2018 and many guys got this guy in Wimbledon. Now you guys can say ohh Wimbledon is when he is old ( dude wasn't even 30 until 2016 Wimbledon). So when he was young Delpo got him in USopen 2009.
Nadal fans will always have excuses that he aged super fast or he was injured in all losses so we have to cut through the noise. Also the way he kept missing tournaments on fast courts, we have little evidences of his failures as he aged but they were still there.
Nadal allowed players to try to hit through him. And on clay it worked wonders but on fast courts left him ultra vulnerable. If you guys can call him most complete then clay is only surface for you.
Nadal fans will always have excuses that he aged super fast or he was injured in all losses so we have to cut through the noise. Also the way he kept missing tournaments on fast courts, we have little evidences of his failures as he aged but they were still there.
Nadal allowed players to try to hit through him. And on clay it worked wonders but on fast courts left him ultra vulnerable. If you guys can call him most complete then clay is only surface for you.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yeah, Fed never won long rallies against good baseliners.So you were skipping those points?
Nadal of course exploited it more than everyone probably, but Federer's backhand could not consistently last in longer rallies against good baseliners. Everyone knows that and practically everyone exploited it. If he had a more reliable backhand, he would have more slams than anyone now, the rest of his game is very solid at worst.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
If Djokovic is so much more complete, why has he lost slams to Murray, Wawrinka, Medvedev, etc?
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
He also won slams vs Murray Wawrinka and Medvedev. Ridiculous.
There is no way to beat Djokovic.
Delpo way : bullying with power - gone, Nole depth and spreading court is second to none.
Kyrgios way : no way he tried very hard and got beaten convincingly. All servebots also go in the same category, including raonic Berrettini.
Medvedev way : he tried everything from baseline but Novak did s&v and took the game out of his control.
Thiem way : brainless ballbashing. Djokovic just needs to outlast this guy. He will error himself out. And so would Cilic and others.
Nadal way : Djokovic took it to Nadal. Go after his strength in fh. Nadal became clueless. Even on clay it was competitive between him and Djokovic.
Federer Dimitrov way : Djokovic can handle slice just as well NOW. Early on he had issues with fed but he kept getting better at dealing with slice.
As Djokovic has no weakness it's impossible to go after his 1 stroke. Or you can't even go after him physically. At least till now he has had great stamina. Ofcourse he won 2 of the 3 five setters vs Nadal himself and 2 of 3 vs Murray. These were fittest guys on the tour. Djokovic also beat new gen many times in fifth setter with only loss being vs Thiem in 2019 rg and Alcaraz in 2023 Wimbledon.
So you can't go after any weakness physically, mentally or technically. Best way is try to break his rhythm but you rob yourself from rhythm as well. So it's not great anyways.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic matches servebots by holding his serve rather comfortably and breaking theirs. Fed did so as well.
Djokovic can match grinders like RBA and Medvedev with his insane rallying skills and stamina.
Djokovic can match grinders like RBA and Medvedev with his insane rallying skills and stamina.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic is better at footwork
Great footwork is not about making a split, otherwise Serena making a split means she has the best footwork and movement. lol
Djokovic often slides on hard court and hurt his toe is not a good footwork.
Great footwork is about efficiency, effortless, and light on the foot. Gliding and staying on his toe(not flat foot) improve your balance.
This why tennis analysis/coaches regard Steffi and Federer having the best footwork of all time
12/40 in his 20s.
12/23 in his 30s.
Why don't they accept that competition does matter and determines the difficulty or not of winning important titles such as the Grand Slam?
They will never accept it, even if Djokovic wins more slams in his 40s, they want the world to believe the competition is the same and Djokovic is still in his prime.
In reality, everything fluctuate up and down, nothing stays the same. When past prime player wins more than when he was at his peak, the only explanation is the depth and strength of the field has regress
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes, but the catch here is that if he's the most complete, these inferior players shouldn't even touch him, let alone beat him in 5 major finals.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Federer lost even before semis in 2000s to nalbandian and others. It happens. Murray definitely is a grinder who will kill probably federer's competition over 10 matches series.
And Medvedev loss happened once when Nole has beaten him many times. In extreme circumstance. Fedfans you are never going to see us backing down now.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I never called Fed the most complete player though. If Djokovic is, then I expect higher standards from him.
Fed wouldn't lose 5 major finals to Murray, Stan and Medvedev.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He wouldn't lose 5 major finals to them because he would most likely lose before the final like he lost multiple times to Nalbandian, Del Potro, Tsonga and Berdych. He took 8 losses in Slams to these guys when Djokovic only took 3, and one was a retirement after the 1st set. No matter how we want to slice it and dice it, 24-12 > 20-11.
RS
Bionic Poster
Good counter rare from Djokovic fans these days
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Let's not list all of Djokovic's pre final losses then.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
We can but Djokovic has the higher Slam win percentage so who do you think will come out on top?
So Safin, Del Potro, Soderling were Kratos?
Subway Tennis
Legend
Also add GOATwrinka
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Besides, Fed was reaching 18/19 slam finals in the timeframe Djokovic was losing to those guys except Med.
And at the same age Djokovic lost to Med Fed didn't lose pre-final either.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
When he was 24-28 yea but what about outside of that timeframe? One of those losses to Wawrinka happened when Djokovic was 29. At the stage of his career that Djokovic is at now, Federer had reached 7 less Slam finals with a 19-10 record.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
The 18/19 finals is the highest display of concentrated dominance shown by any of the three. All beyond, quibbling regarding competition etc is moot.
skaj
Legend
I wouldn't go that far, he won his share of rallies. But the good baseliners used his breakable in long rallies backhand, as I said. Who wouldn't in their position.
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