Federer is 0-7 against top-2 in hardcourt Slams

[metsman]

Let’s agree to disagree on that one. Roddick dropped a set to scrubs in each of the first 3 rounds of Wimbledon. He needed 5 sets to get by a very washed up version of Hewitt.

Fed’s return of serve had slipped several levels by the time that he played Roddick in that final.

Roddick’s 2003-2004 level was much higher. Roddick in an interview in 2007 said that he noticed that his serves had dropped a few mph each year during the last couple of years . Roddick said that he often looked at the radar gun during matches.

2003-2004 Roddick beats 2009 Federer at Wimbledon pretty easily, IMHO. By 2010, Fed’s return of serve started costing him matches to much weaker players.

Agreed that 03-04 Roddick's overall level was better. It's possible that 09 Fed bots well enough and puts together some returns in TBs against 03-04 Roddick. Worth noting that Roddick didn't serve nearly as well as 09 in either 03 or 04 in the matches against Federer. Fed circa 03-04 had the best 1st return ever so that's part of it. But yeah 03-04 Roddick would definitely be a handful for 09 Fed whose first return had declined by a good amount along with the mild decline in footwork against the much bigger Roddick FH.

 

[Tenez101]

Interesting thread, this.

Has Federer ever beaten a #1 seed in a slam final?

AO 2017 is the only possibility.

Edit: Nope, Rafa was the 9th seed, lol.

 

[MichaelNadal]

The best was Kevin Anderson loss at Wimbledon. Months of whinging about him being the final opponent for Nadal at US17 then WIM18 he beats Fed...

Lol I forgot about that

 

[titoelcolombiano]

W&V – sounds like a brand new style of play. Must be much more interesting than baseline slug from Djokovic and Nadal.

SVBR (sudden vulture by Roger )

 

[Lew II]

Let’s agree to disagree on that one. Roddick dropped a set to scrubs in each of the first 3 rounds of Wimbledon. He needed 5 sets to get by a very washed up version of Hewitt.

Fed’s return of serve had slipped several levels by the time that he played Roddick in that final.

Roddick’s 2003-2004 level was much higher. Roddick in an interview in 2007 said that he noticed that his serves had dropped a few mph each year during the last couple of years . Roddick said that he often looked at the radar gun during matches.

2003-2004 Roddick beats 2009 Federer at Wimbledon pretty easily, IMHO. By 2010, Fed’s return of serve started costing him matches to much weaker players.

Why did everyone from 2003-07 declined in the following years, even if still in his 20s?

 

[RS]

Agreed that 03-04 Roddick's overall level was better. It's possible that 09 Fed bots well enough and puts together some returns in TBs against 03-04 Roddick. Worth noting that Roddick didn't serve nearly as well as 09 in either 03 or 04 in the matches against Federer. Fed circa 03-04 had the best 1st return ever so that's part of it. But yeah 03-04 Roddick would definitely be a handful for 09 Fed whose first return had declined by a good amount along with the mild decline in footwork against the much bigger Roddick FH.

Roddick BH was better in 2009 as well than 2003 or 2004 and he was more steady as well. In 2004 he returned better but he wasn’t as smart and tried to below you out of rallies. That’s how he beat Murray in the SF in 2009.

 

[Gary Duane]

Why did everyone from 2003-07 declined in the following years, even if still in his 20s?

Lew, are you aware that for many years the average peak of tennis players was right around age 24?

If you take the age of each slam winner from 68 through to the end of 2007, you'll find out the average age is pretty close to 24.5. That average has jumped up to around 27 years old from 2008 to today, mostly because no one under 31 has won a slam since Murray at Wimbledon in 2016. Even with changes in tennis, what is going on right now is just not normal or expected.

 

[Lew II]

Lew, are you aware that for many years the average peak of tennis players was right around age 24?

If you take the age of each slam winner from 68 through to the end of 2007, you'll find out the average age is pretty close to 24.5. That average has jumped up to around 27 years old from 2008 to today, mostly because no one under 31 has won a slam since Murray at Wimbledon in 2016. Even with changes in tennis, what is going on right now is just not normal or expected.

But 2008-12 is just few years ago, I'm not comparing recent years to the '80s.

 

[NatF]

Why did everyone from 2003-07 declined in the following years, even if still in his 20s?

Most of those players declined due to injuries before the Djokodal gen even appeared. Your attempts to force a link have been refuted before...

 

[Lew II]

Most of those players declined due to injuries before the Djokodal gen even appeared. Your attempts to force a link have been refuted before...

I know, I know, that was the injury gen while the following was the injury-free gen.

 

[ABCD]

Lew II is 0 in life!

You insult people who did not say a bad word about you while you tolerated a barrage of insults from tennis_hands with subservience I have never witnessed in my life.

 

[NatF]

I know, I know, that was the injury gen while the following was the injury-free gen.

Comments like these illuminate your agenda better than most. What are you saying here? Are you saying they weren't injured? Hopefully not that as that would be stupid considering those injuries and surgeries are well documented...Might as well ask why Murray and Wawrinka haven't been able to recover from their injuries.

It's quite possible external factors caused by the changing tour conditions at the time helped precipiate the injuries in the mid 00's as well.

 

[Mike Sams]

You insult people who did not say a bad word about you while you tolerated a barrage of insults from tennis_hands with subservience I have never witnessed in my life.

I barely remember anyone's name on here or what happened as far back as 2 days ago. I'm sure if I cross paths with whoever this tennis hands guy is again, I'll handle that business while leaving "subservience" at the door.

 

[Bender]

I barely remember...whoever this tennis hands guy is

 

[Lew II]

0-8

 

[Yugram]

0-8

Goat

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

0-8

Congratulations. As long as the numbers keep ticking, who cares what actually happened, huh. I suppose if Fed withdrew he'd be a better player.

 

[Subway Tennis]

Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-7.

vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016

Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.

 

[SummerBreeze]

0-8

XD low low post..

 

[Lew II]

0-5 at AO
1-6 at RG
6-4 at WI
0-3 at UO

1-14 in three slams out of four!

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

19 > 16/15 > 7

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

I know, right? Look how many times he played against the world no.1 or no.2 on a hard court between 2002 and 2008, which include his very best years. Didn't win a single one. Extraordinary.

 

[SummerBreeze]

0-5 at AO
1-6 at RG
6-4 at WI
0-3 at UO

1-14 in three slams out of four!

Op is just anti-federer troll, northing more. No regard for intangibles whatsoever. Absolutely not to be taken serious. Have a good day folks.

 

[KINGROGER]

Nadal was number 2 between 2005-2008 and didn’t make a single HC slam final. Fed lost when he was underdog and expected to. He won all the matches with him as favourite apart from AO09.

 

[SummerBreeze]

Nadal was number 2 between 2005-2008 and didn’t make a single HC slam final. Fed lost when he was underdog and expected to. He won all the matches with him as favourite apart from AO09.

And US open 09 too I have to add as a fed fan.

 

[KINGROGER]

And US open 09 too I have to add as a fed fan.

Maybe Fed should lose to Youzny, ferrer, Blake, Istomin, Berdych etc rather than battling and taking losses.

 

[SummerBreeze]

For OP going out against 5th seed thiem at 33 (0 slams) looks far better then going out against 16 time slam winner djokovic at 38 just because it will add another loss vs main rival and nr 1 or 2 in the world. This really makes sence doesn't it? People like him used to ridicule and diminish a win in the final over a 35 year old Agassi way back. Now putting asside a 38 year old is suddenly the stuff of genius and a very big feat somehow. So funny these facts/stats without context.

 

[junior74]

Zero respect for senior citizens.
Nothing new.

 

[Lew II]

DJOKOVIC

AO 5-1
RG 1-5
WI 3-2
UO 3-5

total 12-13

NADAL

AO 1-2
RG 7-1
WI 1-3
UO 1-2

total 10-8

FEDERER

AO 0-5
RG 1-6
WI 6-4
UO 0-3

total 7-18

 

[Micheal Federer]

Wins over the highest ranked opponent (#1, or #2 if you're the #1):

AO: Djokovic 4, Nadal 1, Federer 0
RG: Nadal 7, Djokovic 1, Federer 0
WI: Federer 5, Djokovic 3, Nadal 1
UO: Djokovic 2, Nadal 1, Federer 0

interesting claim that Roger never defeated a no 1 or 2 at RG
what was Djokovic ranked when Roger defeated him at 2011 FO? He was ranked no 1. but OP cherry picked the facts to suit his claim

 

[aditya123]

Superb timing to hurt Fed fans!!!!! Atleast,updates in this thread could have come a day or 2 later. But no. Hmmmm

 

[Lew II]

Zero respect for senior citizens.
Nothing new.

Did you have respect for the babies?

Federer had the majority of his wins against Djokovic (13/23) before Nole won his second Slam.

 

[SummerBreeze]

interesting claim that Roger never defeated a no 1 or 2 at RG
what was Djokovic ranked when Roger defeated him at 2011 FO? He was ranked no 1. but OP cherry picked the facts to suit his claim

His whole life revolves around this I think ^^ inventing stuff

 

[aditya123]

Did you have respect for the babies?

Federer had the majority of his wins against Djokovic (13/23) before Nole won his second Slam.

Beating them is different from mocking them.

 

[SummerBreeze]

Did you have respect for the babies?

Federer had the majority of his wins against Djokovic (13/23) before Nole won his second Slam.

Now careers take of at second slam XD. Waiting impatiantly for what's coming next.

 

[Lew II]

DJOKOVIC

AO 5-1
RG 1-5
WI 3-2
UO 3-5

total 12-13

NADAL

AO 1-2
RG 7-1
WI 1-3
UO 1-2

total 10-8

FEDERER

AO 0-5
RG 1-6
WI 6-4
UO 0-3

total 7-18

Djokovic has the best win percentage at 3 slams out of 4 (tied for Wimbledon)

 

[SummerBreeze]

Amazing. 15 years from now no-one will remember

 

[BH40love]

That was a crazy first set. Once Fed lost the tiebreak it was all over tbh even tho he wasn’t 100% I think if he wins that first set 6-3 like it looked it’s a different match but credit to Djokovic he is immense on this court. Interesting match if he plays Zverev

 

[thrust]

AO in 08 semifinal vs Djokovic, I am sure Roger was either #1 or 2

 

[Spencer Gore]

0-5 at AO
1-6 at RG
6-4 at WI
0-3 at UO

1-14 in three slams out of four!

Wow!

 

[BH40love]

What’s Roger record as the #1 or #2 seed?

 

[Bianca007]

Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-7.

vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016
Update: vs #2 Djokovic AO 2020

Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.

Its is blatantly nonsense to put Federer ahead of Djokovic nadal or Sampras on hard court.

Those statistics are a damning indictment really for someone who the media try to proclaim as the greatest ever.

 

[Bianca007]

Wow..that's damning stuff. No way anyone can call him the hard court GOAT with that record

I said today would damage federer legacy. Its just impossible to ignore the fact that from age 26 onwards he has been totally eclipsed by Nadal and Djokovic.

Today was just actually sad to see. Djokovic was toying with him at times like a ball on string.

 

[Third Serve]

Its is blatantly nonsense to put Federer ahead of Djokovic nadal or Sampras on hard court.

Those statistics are a damning indictment really for someone who the media try to proclaim as the greatest ever.

lolz

 

[RelentlessAttack]

amusingly if federer were really such a weak era fraud, then Nole is even worse for having dominated against the worst youngsters ever in an era where his hardest opposition for many of his 2014-present slams has been an old washed up weak era fraud

 

[Jaitock1991]

I said today would damage federer legacy. Its just impossible to ignore the fact that from age 26 onwards he has been totally eclipsed by Nadal and Djokovic.

Today was just actually sad to see. Djokovic was toying with him at times like a ball on string.

Guess he should have withdrawn then, instead of respecting the game and his opponent too much to do so. His legacy would have been better off.

 

[mike danny]

Brutal stay OP. There is no friggin way to defend this

Yes, there is. Quite easily.

 

[mike danny]

Baby Djokovic in his first slam final who was far away from his peak and thus not the #2 in the world. The stat talks about beating one of the top 2 in hard court meetings which Fed has never done

But what if the no.2 player isn't good on HC?

 

[fluffyyelloballz]

Sup.
Peeps are totes deluded if they think these funky stats are gonna mean Feds ain’t the GOAT.

 

[Red Rick]

Not many matches in his prime, but 0-8 is still a kinda painful stat