President
Legend
He was also playing Roddick, whose returning abilities and anticipation are leagues below Djokovic's.
Federer needs to scrap that new racket - it has helped him ZERO
- Thread starter Federer20042006
- Start date
He was also playing Roddick, whose returning abilities and anticipation are leagues below Djokovic's.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yep another point that will be argued for about 100 posts, but is undeniably true.
Joker is the world's best returner. What Fed today on serve was rather impressive.
iceman_dl6
Professional
It's not the racquet guys, it's the age. Imo, since the Tour 90 is more demanding than the RF97, probably he wouldn't have made it this far with the 90.
For those who say his serve speeds vs 2012 (tour 90) are slower because of his 97, it's not right because he was 2 years younger. Therefore, you need to compare his serve speed as of TODAY with both racquets to fairly assess which one serves faster
It's age, NOT the racquet
For those who say his serve speeds vs 2012 (tour 90) are slower because of his 97, it's not right because he was 2 years younger. Therefore, you need to compare his serve speed as of TODAY with both racquets to fairly assess which one serves faster
It's age, NOT the racquet
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I agree. But if Federer was able to dig himself out of the abyss in the 4th set(which he did), then the Championship form should have been evident in the 5th(which it wasn't). Bottom line, Djoker is the world's best returner. However, the opportunity was there for Federer to nullify the returns with confident, lights out serving. He did it quite a few times, but it wasn't enough.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
It was one Fed's the all time great serving performances in a slam final with his big bubba in hand.
LoboLaw1984
Rookie
You guys realize that Federer easily could have won this match if a few points had gone differently, right? The dude is hanging with the best at nearly 33 years old. It's not the racquet, it's the players.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Hey fanboy, a question:
If heading into the tournament, someone told you that Fed would end up in the finals? Would you have taken that?
Of course you would.
Enough with this revisionist crap. His wide serve in the deuce court won point-after-point and his backhand looked beautiful…..and his forehand was just fine……clutch break of serve after break of serve…….it wasn't the racquet fanboy.
You should take up tennis sometime…..
objectivity
Banned
lol... for years, the complaint was Federer was using antiquated equipment vs Nadal... that Nadal had unfair advantage with poly, larger head size, yada yada. now suddenly according to these same folks, Federer was playing better with the smaller racket after all! lol.
geeze. the delusion.
geeze. the delusion.
endbegin
Rookie
The way I see it, the racquet has helped him in some areas, and hurt him in others. His backhand is more reliable now, and he is volleying better than ever, but his forehand, while still really good, is not as good as it was. Don't think it is as penetrating on both the inside in and inside out.
I don't see his serve as being affected - he still hits it hard and can find all his spots. And I am comparing it to two years ago, so I don't think age is a major factor here, especially given he has a back issue in 2012, and was healthy today.
The 97 is less of a "wand" than the 90 was. But don't think he is switching back to the old 90. That ship has sailed.
It will be interesting to see how he performs on the US hardcourts, and the indoor season after.
I don't see his serve as being affected - he still hits it hard and can find all his spots. And I am comparing it to two years ago, so I don't think age is a major factor here, especially given he has a back issue in 2012, and was healthy today.
The 97 is less of a "wand" than the 90 was. But don't think he is switching back to the old 90. That ship has sailed.
It will be interesting to see how he performs on the US hardcourts, and the indoor season after.
caugas
Semi-Pro
OP what are you talking about. Fed is playing better now than the last 2 years. The game is changing and the competition is fierce, he had to make adjustments and they are paying off. Nole is a worthy opponent, the real deal, fed should be OK with his results for 2014.
Federer20042006
Banned
So just how far has Federer's forehand fallen? Watch these highlights from the 2008 Wimbledon epic again, against the "greatest player in history," with today's match still fresh in your mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1yfWb0-jqQ
As for the Dedans Penthouse crap...I wouldn't exactly be excited about Federer getting another runner up plate at Wimbledon, no. I'd rather him win a masters series title than lose in the final at Wimbledon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1yfWb0-jqQ
As for the Dedans Penthouse crap...I wouldn't exactly be excited about Federer getting another runner up plate at Wimbledon, no. I'd rather him win a masters series title than lose in the final at Wimbledon.
Roddick85
Hall of Fame
Been saying it since the beginning of the year, I don't think the new stick makes Roger better. Perhaps it was a good thing to change racket psychologically speaking after an awful 2013 and start fresh with something new, but game wise it hasn't helped him. He's serving a good 5-10 MPH slower than before, 2nd serve isn't kicking as high, backhand slice has less bite, but most of all it turned what I consider the greatest forehand in the game into an average shot.
All match long, he never looked comfortable hitting a forehand. He missed I don't know how many forehands on the run, and the rest the time, he looked like someone that struggled to find the sweet spot while hitting, it looked like he was holding back. Only decent forehand he hit was in the I/O, but that wasn't enough. He didn't miss that many backhand, but I thought he didn't have much if any power on that stroke, kinda like the forehand. Maybe he was mishitting a little more with the 90, but damn everything else was much much better.
Also, can we please stop with the Edberg overhype? If anything, the "Edberg strategy" is one of the main reason he lost today, especially in the 2nd/3rd set, how many times did he come to the net only to get passed easily by Djokovic? It could of worked a bit better had he opted to come behind solid shots, but fact is, he never had enough angle or power to really put Djokovic on a tough enough spot to be able to finish with the volley.
Return wise, how many times did he do the backhand slice/chip and charge only to gift the point? I don't mind Roger slicing his backhand on a 1st serve return, but on an attackable 2nd serve? He started to go for the top spin backhand return a little too late in the game, he should of done that from the beginning. Actually, had he changed his strategy for returning and stopped that chip and charge, today's result would be different I believe. He should of watched the tape from 2012....
Anyways, regardless, still happy Federer made a slam final. Hopefully today's lost makes him even more hungry for the US Open. Last Wimbledon final he lost, he won the US Open after, there's hope.
All match long, he never looked comfortable hitting a forehand. He missed I don't know how many forehands on the run, and the rest the time, he looked like someone that struggled to find the sweet spot while hitting, it looked like he was holding back. Only decent forehand he hit was in the I/O, but that wasn't enough. He didn't miss that many backhand, but I thought he didn't have much if any power on that stroke, kinda like the forehand. Maybe he was mishitting a little more with the 90, but damn everything else was much much better.
Also, can we please stop with the Edberg overhype? If anything, the "Edberg strategy" is one of the main reason he lost today, especially in the 2nd/3rd set, how many times did he come to the net only to get passed easily by Djokovic? It could of worked a bit better had he opted to come behind solid shots, but fact is, he never had enough angle or power to really put Djokovic on a tough enough spot to be able to finish with the volley.
Return wise, how many times did he do the backhand slice/chip and charge only to gift the point? I don't mind Roger slicing his backhand on a 1st serve return, but on an attackable 2nd serve? He started to go for the top spin backhand return a little too late in the game, he should of done that from the beginning. Actually, had he changed his strategy for returning and stopped that chip and charge, today's result would be different I believe. He should of watched the tape from 2012....
Anyways, regardless, still happy Federer made a slam final. Hopefully today's lost makes him even more hungry for the US Open. Last Wimbledon final he lost, he won the US Open after, there's hope.
trenzterra
Semi-Pro
Well, for me I saw certain shots that he hit that were moonballs that fell right into court and kept him in the game -- I believe these would be shanks on his old racquet.
So I guess they do give him a little more margin for error.
For those complaining that it has robbed him of power, it doesn't make sense. Why can everyone else use a 98-100 sq inch racquet and generate much more power than him? Clearly there are other more crucial factors (like age) to take into consideration.
So I guess they do give him a little more margin for error.
For those complaining that it has robbed him of power, it doesn't make sense. Why can everyone else use a 98-100 sq inch racquet and generate much more power than him? Clearly there are other more crucial factors (like age) to take into consideration.
sundaypunch
Hall of Fame
objectivity
Banned
he is also 33. ffs.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
reaction slows with age. if reaction slows, he's a split second late to the ball meaning his timing is a bit off which means more off center shots and takes the sting off his groundies.
There's no hope. He was 27 going into that us open. Federer has absolutely zero chance to win the open. This was his last chance to win a major, he might have a small chance at Wimbledon next year, but I doubt it.
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Only the haters ever accused Fed of using antiquated equipment. You can't go around and then try to pin that bs on the people who appreciated his mid all along.
I realize your just a sad little troll but it's no excuse to be an idiot irl too.
World Beater
Hall of Fame
Honestly, i don't buy the media spin about federer's new racket giving him all this additional power etc.
I have yet to hear Federer himself talk about in detail how the racket helps him.
All i seem to hear is "easy power", but they guy isnt hitting the ball any harder than he used to, and his accuracy seems to get worse if anything especially on the fh.
I have yet to hear Federer himself talk about in detail how the racket helps him.
All i seem to hear is "easy power", but they guy isnt hitting the ball any harder than he used to, and his accuracy seems to get worse if anything especially on the fh.
He has way less power on the forehand than he used to. I'm not blaming the racket for that but it definitely didn't help his power and probably made him even more error prone. Lose/lose on the new racket.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Yes, they have. He's now using a bigger racquet. The result is fewer aces and lower serve speeds. No wonder Sampras stuck with his PS 85 for his entire career and continued to have the best serve in tennis until he retired.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Really? Then how did he beat Djokovic in the semis and Murray in the finals to win Wimbledon 2 years ago, yet lost in the finals today?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
First of all, not that many can. Secondly, they use much stiffer and powerful racquets like the Pure Drive or APD, while Federer's racquet probably is designed for more feel. Lastly, because Federer has been using 85/90 sq. in. racquets almost his entire life so that's what he's used to swinging and therefore knows how to maximize the power out of them.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Agassi hit his groundstrokes harder in his 30's than he ever did in his 20's.
burn1986
Banned
Federer picked the worst time in his career to switch racquets. He had the wrong people giving him advice IMO. Whether the racquet has helped him or not is not the issue. At his age and point in his career, switching to a completely different racquet is like going through an injury and/ or learning how to play through a weakness. It created a hole that he has had to dig out of. Once he decided to switch, there was virtually no turning back. Has he returned to his former self? Not quite.
fighting123
Rookie
Djokovic has played much better today than he did 2 years ago whereas Federer was at the same level as he was 2 years ago. That was just simple fact.
Federer20042006
Banned
Just thought I'd remind people what his forehand USED to look like. He used to go after people.
I rolled my eyes at the IBM "aggressive stats" for the Big 4, but as the matches went on, I realized they told a pretty accurate story.
objectivity
Banned
Einstein also never did a PhD degree.
what is my point? Agassi is probably an anomaly.
sunny_cali
Semi-Pro
While I agree that Agassi's late career surge is an anomaly --
Einstein did get a PhD, so I can't see the analogy, unless your point is that Einstein was also an anomaly.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Agassi also didn't have to switch to a larger racquet in his 30's to hit the ball harder. In fact, he switched to a smaller one.
burn1986
Banned
Gael Monfils hit one of the hardest forehands I've ever seen at the French Open. Raonic has also hit forehands way harder than Agassi and Federer. Just because someone hits hard is no reflection of how they play their forehand. Federer's new racquet hasnt helped his forehand, if that's the point you're trying to make.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
So if Federer would be better off with a Tour 90, and even better off with a PS85, would it not stand to reason that Federer should go back to a 65 sq. in. racquet? Think of the control and power of a racquet with that little surface area and that much weight. But then, why stop at 65 sq. in., why not have Federer play with a baseball bat?
Or is the PS85 a "golden mean" or "summit between two poles" to which all racquets should aspire?
Or is the PS85 a "golden mean" or "summit between two poles" to which all racquets should aspire?
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Devilito
Hall of Fame
he definitely needs to go back to the PS85
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0UZ-3W-bgs
Way bigger serve, groundstrokes, more solid returns and about twice as good at net. 19 year old Fed would have triple bageled 2014 Fed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0UZ-3W-bgs
Way bigger serve, groundstrokes, more solid returns and about twice as good at net. 19 year old Fed would have triple bageled 2014 Fed
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Totally agree!
Check out all the video clips in my OP in this thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=497508
Anyone can see how much better his backhand, serve, and volleys were with the PS 6.0 85 even as a teenager.
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TTMR
Hall of Fame
Because wood is not graphite.
Besides, the PS 6.0 85 is well regarded as the GROAT.
But surely a hypothetical "PS 65" (comprised of graphite) would be an even greater racquet?
As an aside, which professional singles players today utilize the GROAT PS 6.0 85?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Only the GOAT can wield the GROAT.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Only the GOAT can wield the GROAT.
No, Safin used a Head racquet.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Fair enough, but one important fact that you neglected to mention is that the 2012 Federer was 30, while the 2014 Federer is 32.
10is
Professional
Very Well said! Could not agree more! Health is the reason for his success this year - not the ugly, unwieldy workman spade that he has chosen to replace his noble, faithful rapier. The bigger racket also has more drag per surface area and moves slower through the air, accounting for less "pop" on his groundstrokes (even less than we were used to seeing previously in his post-prime dotage.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
I agree that it has hardly helped him, but there is no reason to switch back. The older racket was not going to win him Wimbledon yesterday either.
What this shows us is how ridiculous it is for amateurs (and former pros like BG!) to advocate for a bigger racket as if it would drastically help a guy who had won 17 slams with his older one. I remember the comments last year like "It is simple physics. Bigger racket=more power on serves". All of that seems so silly now. Federer's 1st serve is still like 115 mph range on average. He didn't hit a serve bigger than 127 mph this entire tournament. Not that it matters, Federer still has a fantastic serve, but the whole "extra power/easier power" nonsense was wrong. Amateur tennis rules don't apply to Federer.
Interesting fact, in the 2006 Wimbledon final Federer hit a 136 mph fault.
What this shows us is how ridiculous it is for amateurs (and former pros like BG!) to advocate for a bigger racket as if it would drastically help a guy who had won 17 slams with his older one. I remember the comments last year like "It is simple physics. Bigger racket=more power on serves". All of that seems so silly now. Federer's 1st serve is still like 115 mph range on average. He didn't hit a serve bigger than 127 mph this entire tournament. Not that it matters, Federer still has a fantastic serve, but the whole "extra power/easier power" nonsense was wrong. Amateur tennis rules don't apply to Federer.
Interesting fact, in the 2006 Wimbledon final Federer hit a 136 mph fault.
this is a forum where people adjust their tension by half a pound depending on humidity level...
...
it's full of poor workmen.
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