N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
That is ridiculously potent and effortless.
That is ridiculously potent and effortless.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
NatF
Bionic Poster
He uses his touch a lot more these days which is nice to watch, wish he could rip some forehands though. The inside out forehand just isn't a weapon these days. He'll run around his backhand to hit a forehand but doesn't get enough pace of angle on it.
Yeah he doesn't have the explosiveness, he used to have great trunk rotation he doesn't hit like that now.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Silliest thing about that FH is that he is almost 'arming' it imo.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Djokovic's shot was a little short IMO. Still awesome though.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
I always referred to it as the whip FH. Just unbelievable how it used to go over the highest part of the net and still leave people stranded.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
The ball still shoots through though rather than holding up much, so the timing and execution was marvellous.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzpoNmNZIXk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
2 mins 30 sec. Mark. Sorry I can't post a timestamp version bc I'm mobile.
2 mins 30 sec. Mark. Sorry I can't post a timestamp version bc I'm mobile.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Who will? Djokovic, federer or the defending champion murray
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
But how is that FH on fast low bouncing surfaces like say....Wimbledon the first week or the WTF?
It's a devastating weapon clay but let's not go crazy.
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Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
The anticipation was the key aspect in that play. Djokvoic has problems disguising his shots.
xFedal
Legend
But if he does he makes history by winning 3 slams on every surface. Sampras didn't even win 1 on every surface and Nads could have 3 on every surface, proving his more versatile then everyone else. Ties Bjorn Borgs 3 Channel slams. Eclipses Sampras with 15 Majors. 21st Grand Slam Final. Nadal can make so much history this Wimbledon. In the process he can settle his score with Roger on Grass too
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I have no idea who will win Wimbledon this year. I have a feeling we might see a non big 4 member holding up the trophy but I'm not sure who exactly lol.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Good times, battle of the bandanas.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Don't get me wrong it was an incredible shot to hit the winner like that. I just think Djokovic could have done more with his forehand, he was being too safe with it. Which is something you can't afford to do against a shot with the excellence of Nadal's forehand.
Fiji
Legend
Nole will win.
Grass is now Nadals worst surface. That ship sailed. He has better chances on hc than grass these days.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nadal has 3 HC slams, an Olympic gold on HC and has made 5 Wimbledon finals winning two of those.... so yeah, don't get crazy. Indoors you have a point which is why I don't give him the nod by a huge margin. Federer's breaks down much more and isn't very damaging on clay.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Did Federer's break down during his prime? He also scores more winners with it. Watch Hamburg 2007 and Rome 2006 if you think Federer's forehand isn't very damaging on clay.
torpantennis
Legend
Nadal needs more weeks #1. If he can win 2-3 more slams outside of RG, and get to 250 weeks #1, then he's a contender. So far, he's just a clay-GOAT.
Cup8489
G.O.A.T.
Pretty much.
I don't remember if it was this one, or another, but there was a point in that final where I recall Djokovic hitting a deep return to Nadal's forehand corner, and Nadal just redirecting it up the line with pace off the bounce (like straight half volley) for a winner, and thinking to myself "there's no way Djokovic is going to win this match." And that was like the first set.
Truly, as much as I love watching Federer play, both of these guys are equals, in my mind. Just different players, but equally lethal. The Nadal forehand is one of the most unique and devastating shots ever, and then there's Federer's pure shotmaking abilities that make him my favorite of the two to watch.
But with Nadal.. I remember after the first set on Sunday, that I told my family that Djokovic wouldn't feel like he was in the lead, and I didn't feel like he was either.. because I knew Nadal just would.not.relent. Nadal at Roland Garros is a demigod.. and even when Djokovic plays him elsewhere you know he's possibly the favorite. But there, on Phillippe Chatrier, Rafa is untouchable.
Soderling may just end up being the only guy with the claim of truly beating Rafa there.. because at this point, who is really gonna say that whoever beats him now beat him at his best? He'll be nearly 29 next year. Who really thinks Tsonga's win over Fed in 2011 was against Fed at his best? I certainly wouldn't.
Edit: Okay, it wasn't a return, it was just a backhand into the Nadal forehand. First point in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iiu4WNXgZ-8
Something I've just realized as well. Djokovic has been in 5 USO finals, including 4 in a row through last year. That's one less than Federer. The difference? Federer won all of his first 5, and only lost his 6th and final.. Djokovic has won just one of five..
And another.. http://youtu.be/Iiu4WNXgZ-8?t=6m15s
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SLD76
G.O.A.T.
Nadal has crashed out of Wimbledon twice the past two years. Won one USO while only playing one top ten player, and has zero world tour finals and has minimal fast hc titles (dubai, cincinnatti, paris, etc)
You were saying?
And Lmao at Fed's FH nit good on clay. You seem to forget that from 2005-2009 only rafa stood on his way on clay foe the most part.
Give me the FH that is good on fast and slow surfaces please and thanks.
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Fiji
Legend
Why I think nole will win wimbledon by default.
Nadals worst surface is grass now. He can lose to anyone there, really.
I don't think Murray is 100% fit to win a slam yet. Winning a slam is too demanding and to expect Murray this year to win a slam after surgery is too much. It will take time. Defending Wimbledon is too exclusive, only legends did this...
Federer is older and can lose to anyone here.
The others are pretenders not really contenders to win wimbledon.
Nole will be there to take advantage of this.
At the USO it will be harder for him to win by default... HC is another story, ask Wawa....
Nadals worst surface is grass now. He can lose to anyone there, really.
I don't think Murray is 100% fit to win a slam yet. Winning a slam is too demanding and to expect Murray this year to win a slam after surgery is too much. It will take time. Defending Wimbledon is too exclusive, only legends did this...
Federer is older and can lose to anyone here.
The others are pretenders not really contenders to win wimbledon.
Nole will be there to take advantage of this.
At the USO it will be harder for him to win by default... HC is another story, ask Wawa....
xFedal
Legend
Nadal can make some awesome records dude, 3rd RG-Wimby Combo is massive, something which keeps Borg in contention for Goat could be achieved by Nads. Lets not even talk about Australian Open cos if he gets that to not only will he have won 3 slams on every surface but will have atleast 2 slams wins in every major. Sampras couldn't even win 1 slam on every surface, Rafa has the chance to get 3.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
I think the significance of surface homogenization is completely missed by this one.
xFedal
Legend
Not obsessive as Rogers who has 17 slams and 24 finals
Fiji
Legend
Nole's record in USO finals is very embarrassing for someone who is such a great hc player...
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yeah that shot is sick, he did it against Federer at cincy too.
xFedal
Legend
Surface homogenization or not truth is Rogers has 1, Nadal with 2 and Borg with 3 channel slams.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Hes still not in that great form in my opinion tho
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I disagree.
You can't give Nadal shortcuts to GOAThood. Federer knew he had to beat 14 to enter in contention. He did not get any shortcuts.
Nadal has to pass 17 to be considered the official greatest.
But he still has to win 4 more, which won't come easy.
You can't give Nadal shortcuts to GOAThood. Federer knew he had to beat 14 to enter in contention. He did not get any shortcuts.
Nadal has to pass 17 to be considered the official greatest.
But he still has to win 4 more, which won't come easy.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Roger has 5 in a row at 2 majors. Which is also an outstanding achievement. Neither nadal nor Sampras have this. Actually Nadal never won 2 in a row at another major except RG.
Nadal still needs to win 1 WTF title to be the best. You need to prove to everybody that you can beat the top 8 back to back and only the top 8
xFedal
Legend
He could do it 2 more French and 1 Aussie open and 1 Wimby, heck even 1 more Us open if he is healthy.
xFedal
Legend
Fed's 5 at 2 Majors in a row is one of Tennis's best records. 3 Channel slams and Double career slam along with career Golden is pretty good if Rafa does it. And Yh a WTF this year will only add to his legacy.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Bottom line, Nadal needs to:
1)Win 1 WTF
2)Have between 230-250 weeks at no.1. At least show that he can come close to Pete and Fed in this stat.
3)Win more non-clay slam. Just RG's IMO won't cut it, when the other 2 candidates Pete and Roger have plenty of titles outside of their pet slam. Pete has 7 and Roger has 10. So Rafa needs to at least win 2 more non-clay slams. 11 RG's and 7 non-clay slams looks better than 13 RG's and 5 non-clay slams
4)Pass 17.
These are really all the requirenments for him to surpass Roger.
Of course he does not have to do all of them. But number 4 is mandatory. Number 1 would not hurt either
1)Win 1 WTF
2)Have between 230-250 weeks at no.1. At least show that he can come close to Pete and Fed in this stat.
3)Win more non-clay slam. Just RG's IMO won't cut it, when the other 2 candidates Pete and Roger have plenty of titles outside of their pet slam. Pete has 7 and Roger has 10. So Rafa needs to at least win 2 more non-clay slams. 11 RG's and 7 non-clay slams looks better than 13 RG's and 5 non-clay slams
4)Pass 17.
These are really all the requirenments for him to surpass Roger.
Of course he does not have to do all of them. But number 4 is mandatory. Number 1 would not hurt either
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Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Considering hes 28 he probs will becoz he can win 2 more french opens and 1 more us open or wimbledon
irishnadalfan1983
Hall of Fame
Doesn't even come into the conversation.
xFedal
Legend
15 Is very possible this year and 16 next is also likely. Nadal has 2 more French opens in him minimum his "aura" at RG is too great. His obsessiveness will get him 1 more Australia definitely in my opinion.
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
but olympic gold matters, and Davis cup? LoL
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
LMAO...touche' !
NatF
Bionic Poster
The WTF or YEC has been an important tournament for 40 years, it's the 5th biggest tournament in tennis. Only certain Nadal fans thinking beating at least 4 top 10 players in a single tournament is meaningless. Federer has 5 times beaten 5 top 10 players in a row to win the YEC. That's pretty special.
xFedal
Legend
What if Nadal does the 3 Channel Slams and double career slam but does not get over 200 weeks then?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I said not all 4 are mandatory.
Of course 3 Channel slam combined with double career slamshould do the trick.
But no. 4 is mandatory. And no.1 would boost his legacy a lot
Of course 3 Channel slam combined with double career slamshould do the trick.
But no. 4 is mandatory. And no.1 would boost his legacy a lot
Omega_7000
Legend
Why? 17 would still be greater than 15.......Weeks at #1?
Or have you joined the "H2H is the most important stat" bandwagon?
Why pass 17? Is equal not enough? At which point the tie breaker of h2h clearly is in play? Agree with 2 more off clay slams else he's the clay goat with 11 RG and 6 elsewhere if that's how it panned out (although even with those numbers and a skewed h2h over everyone I don't think you can say anyone in his era is better than him).
As for weeks at number 1, if he gets over 200 I think he's ticked that and to get 17 plus slams I'm sure he would. He dominates the h2h with everyone and holds the masters record. the wtf is a bit of an issue but probably not a deal breaker. It just says you're not as good on indoor hard courts. It's a blatant surface advantage for the hardcourters. Don't think olympic gold makes any increased claim for Nadal (not that you said it did).
The most important is slam numbers and then spending a considerable period as number 1, h2h, masters, wtfs and non-surface bias in no particular order become all part of the mix in my opinion, as does judgement of eras.
Basically, I think Nadal will probably take the overall slam count and may or may not be considered goat or co-goat with Federer. Fed will hold weeks #1 and wtfs and may just fend off Nadal on slams but it's looking unlikely. Fed though will probably well definitely be a more loved player in part due to a marketing aura etc but mainly due to his beautiful aesthetic game and his range of shots that he has which probably surpasses anyone else I've ever seen play.
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SLD76
G.O.A.T.
Fed got stopped by one man at one slam and dominated 2 and was extremely good at a third.
How is that worse than dominating one slam and eking out wins at 3 others?
