Justine the undisputed queen of her era on clay, but just a champion only on clay.

[anointedone]

I am starting to wonder if in some ways Justine Henin is somewhat of a clay court specialist, not just to the point of clay being her favorite and best surface which everyone knew it was, but to the point her being taken seriously as a championship quality player on other surfaces is a question.

She hasnt won a grand slam on a surface other then clay, the French Open of course, since the 2004 Australian Open. That is 3 and a half years ago now. She has lost in the 4th round of the U.S Open 4 of the last 6 years, not really impressive for a player of her stature. Last year she was supposed to be the favorite in all 4 of her slam finals, and yet she lost all 3 of her finals that were not the French Open final, the Australian to Mauresmo, the Wimbledon final to Mauresmo, and the U.S Open final to Sharapova.

Now obviously she is a phenomenal clay courter, the best clay courter of her generation by far, and one of the greatest women clay courters of all time. She has 4 French Open titles, and only Chris Evert (7), Suzanne Lenglen (6), Steffi Graf (6), Margaret Court (5), have more. However is she a champion on any surface other then clay.

 

[anointedone]

Here are some head to heads of her on non clay surfaces vs the big guns:

Venus vs Henin: Venus leads 6-0 on non clay surfaces. Last meeting not since 2003 Australian Open though (Justine at time had 0 slam titles).

Serena vs Henin: Serena leads 5-1 on non clay surfaces.

Sharapova vs Henin: Henin leads 3-2 on non clay surfaces.

Mauresmo vs Henin: Henin leads 6-5 on non clay surfaces.

Vaidisova vs Henin: Henin leads 3-0 on non clay surfaces. Note-2 of 3 matches were 2004 and 2005, pre-Vaidisova becoming a real contender.

Jankovic vs Henin: Henin leads 2-0 on non clay surfaces.

Ivanovic vs Henin: never played on non clay surface.

Kuznetsova vs Henin: Henin leads 10-1 on non clay surfaces.

Petrova vs Henin: Henin leads 6-1 on non clay surfaces.

Hingis vs Henin: tied 2-2 on non clay surfaces. Note-both Hingis wins were over Henin pre-top 50 player in 2000, pretty much nothing wins, so really 2-0 for Henin.

 

[anointedone]

Contrast that to the clay court head to heads:

Venus vs Henin: 1-1 tied on clay (both matches before Henins primes and during Venus dominance too).

Serena vs Henin: 4-1 Henin leads on clay.

Sharapova vs Henin: 2-0 Henin leads on clay.

Mauresmo vs Henin: 2-1 Henin leads on clay.

Vaidisova vs Henin: never played on clay.

Ivanovic vs Henin: 2-0 Henin leads on clay.

Jankovic vs Henin: 4-0 Henin leads on clay.

Kuznetsova vs Henin: 4-1 Henin leads on clay.

Petrova vs Henin: 4-1 Henin leads on clay.

Hingis vs Henin: never played on clay.

 

[MEAC_ALLAMERICAN]

Venus 6-0 non clay court surfaces, 1-1 on clay.

Okay, didn't really have anything to say, just that.

But, I really don't care for Justine that much, however her game is a joy to watch. As immensely talented as Justine is, the FACT remains that she is 5'5''.Yes she generates a lot of power for her size, but on the faster surfaces she will be overpowered by the bigger and stronger players. The variety in her game can only go so far.

 

[anointedone]

So it seems vs the Williams she obviously is very tough for even Venus or Serena to beat her on clay, but on other surfaces they have pretty much dominated up to this point. Against Mauresmo, Henin has the slight edge in head to head play, but Mauresmo gives her similarly close competition on clay or non-clay surfaces. Against Sharapova, Henin has the slight edge even on non-clay surfaces, and dominates on clay(duh!).

Vaidisova has been handled by Henin on non-clay surfaces, and has yet to play her on clay. Ivanovic has not gotten to play Henin on a non-clay surface, but Henin has handily handled her on clay. Jankovic has been domianted by Henin on any surface thus far. Kuznetsova and Petrova have been similarly dominated by Henin on the clay or off of it. Hingis has not played Henin on clay but has not been able to beat the real Henin both times she played her upon her return, having only encountered the kid version toiling in the low ranks of old previously.

 

[anointedone]

Venus 6-0 non clay court surfaces, 1-1 on clay.

Sorry thanks for the correction.

 

[scotus]

When someone wins major prep tournaments on all surfaces, it's hard to call her a clay-court specialist.

As long as she stays injury-free and motivated, a few more grand slams from non-clay courts are sure to come her way.

 

[anointedone]

When someone wins major prep tournaments on all surfaces, it's hard to call her a clay-court specialist.

As long as she stays injury-free and motivated, a few more grand slams from non-clay courts are sure to come her way.

Nobody really cares about prep tournaments when your career is over though. Sure while you are playing people recognize them and their worth. Sad as it is though, once you get to the players who win 3 or more slams, even the Davenport/Capriati level of player, people overlook non-slam tournaments you win, even tier 1, or excellent non-winning results at slams even semis and finals. Those are things that look at for players with 1 slam title or 0 slams titles. Those with 3 or more, the ones with multiple slams, they only really look at how many slams you won, then further analysis from that, how many in a given year, how many different ones, etc.....

I actually find Justine's game on non-clay surfaces passive-agressive. I remember back to the over my years watching her, starting with the 2001 Australian Open when she played Monica Seles in the fourth round, whereas I had seen her play before then, it was only around then I started following her a bit more closely. She played agressive for the first set and a half and went up a set and 4-2, then became passive trying to close the match out and lost in 3 sets. Then at Wimbledon when she played Capriati in the semis she was passive for a set and a half and was getting spanked, then became agressive the last set and a half and came back to win in 3. The final with Venus I will give her a free pass on, as I know she was pretty worn for that. Then at Wimbledon the next year she played Monica Seles in the quarters, and she played bold attacking tennis, stepping into the forehand, staying on the baseline, finishing points off at the net frequently, to beat Monica for the first time ever; then when she played Venus in the semis, Venus served under 50% and she still did nothing with the second serve, and just played a passive timid match from start to finish as even Navratilova in the booth remarked upon, and of course got beaten easily. In the Wimbledon final last year she began the final with Mauresmo playing very agressively, then in the second set began to play more passively, poking at volleys rather then punching them, backing off returns which allowed even Mauresmo's high kicking second serves to draw errors, and of course lost. Then at the U.S Open, very agressive play vs Davenport in the quarters, passive play vs Jankovic in the semis (who choked) and then in a limp loss to Sharapova in the final. Granted I am not saying her opponent had nothing to do with any of this in some of her matches, but it seems she reverts to passive play on a non clay surface, even often when she is ahead. It seems to be a pattern with her.

If she remembers to play agressive tennis on a fast court she can beat anyone I feel. However she seems to struggle to not revert back to a passive mode, especialy when she gets nervous.

 

[tennis_hand]

Henin is a good player on all court surfaces, with clay being her best.

 

[anointedone]

Henin is a good player on all court surfaces, with clay being her best.

She could silence alot of her critics by winning the U.S Open. It will be interesting to see if she can.

 

[tennis_hand]

She could silence alot of her critics by winning the U.S Open. It will be interesting to see if she can.

she won it already.

 

[Mr Topspin]

I am starting to wonder if in some ways Justine Henin is somewhat of a clay court specialist, not just to the point of clay being her favorite and best surface which everyone knew it was, but to the point her being taken seriously as a championship quality player on other surfaces is a question.

She hasnt won a grand slam on a surface other then clay, the French Open of course, since the 2004 Australian Open. That is 3 and a half years ago now. She has lost in the 4th round of the U.S Open 4 of the last 6 years, not really impressive for a player of her stature. Last year she was supposed to be the favorite in all 4 of her slam finals, and yet she lost all 3 of her finals that were not the French Open final, the Australian to Mauresmo, the Wimbledon final to Mauresmo, and the U.S Open final to Sharapova.

Now obviously she is a phenomenal clay courter, the best clay courter of her generation by far, and one of the greatest women clay courters of all time. She has 4 French Open titles, and only Chris Evert (7), Suzanne Lenglen (6), Steffi Graf (6), Margaret Court (5), have more. However is she a champion on any surface other then clay.

Good Post!

I have been saying for awhile that Henin is overrated. She is a fantastic player and has achieved a great deal and may achieve more but the reality is that nobody knew who she was untill the Williams sisters went off the boil. And the arguments that say She got into her stride in 2003 fail to realise that between the end of 2003 and 2005 the Williams sisters were basically on a two year sabbatical which created this huge vortex that allowed Henin, Clisters and a pack of Russians to contest finals that they would in all likelyhood not contest having been routinely defeated in the semi's of most of the slams by a Williams.

I will give credit to Henin on her first French Open title despite the alleged incident, Serena should have been able to deal with it better. And we all saw what happened at Wimbledon a few weeks later when the reigning champion of Paris was given a sound thrashing that would make Sharapova's beatdown from Serena at the OZ open blush. Plus Henin has not been fortunate to beat finalists in her slams that were either chronic cokers (Clisters, Kutnetsova) or Occasion chokers ( Pierce and Ivanovic). When Henin met a former champ with a losing record ala Sharapova Henin folded badly. And Henin even rolled over in 2 Grand slam finals over Mauresmo; yes you heard correctly I said MAURESMO (a Woman famous for Choking all the time even moreso than Clisters).

When you compare who the Willimas or Sharapova had to beat to win their slams it compares unfavorably with Henin. And when i saw how badly Henin rolled over against Bartoli I just don't want to hear any more crap about Justine's alleged mental strength. Even Sharapova would have found a way to overcome the journeywomen that is know as Bartoli in that semi and not have rolled over as badly as Henin did losing the final set by 6-1. It was embrassing and I hope that a credible world no 1 will dethrone Henin from that inappropriate position. It's literally like having a paperweight boxing champion at no 1 that loses all his big fights to journeyman but never puts the title on the line unless its hand picked truck drivers or steelworkers.

In conclusion, Henin has to prove that she is the 'real' world no 1 and beat a former champion or dangerous up and comer in a tight grand slam match preferably off the safe haven of red clay.

 

[Borat72]

Good Post!

I have been saying for awhile that Henin is overrated. She is a fantastic player and has achieved a great deal and may achieve more but the reality is that nobody knew who she was untill the Williams sisters went off the boil. And the arguments that say She got into her stride in 2003 fail to realise that between the end of 2003 and 2005 the Williams sisters were basically on a two year sabbatical which created this huge vortex that allowed Henin, Clisters and a pack of Russians to contest finals that they would in all likelyhood not contest having been routinely defeated in the semi's of most of the slams by a Williams.

I will give credit to Henin on her first French Open title despite the alleged incident, Serena should have been able to deal with it better. And we all saw what happened at Wimbledon a few weeks later when the reigning champion of Paris was given a sound thrashing that would make Sharapova's beatdown from Serena at the OZ open blush. Plus Henin has not been fortunate to beat finalists in her slams that were either chronic cokers (Clisters, Kutnetsova) or Occasion chokers ( Pierce and Ivanovic). When Henin met a former champ with a losing record ala Sharapova Henin folded badly. And Henin even rolled over in 2 Grand slam finals over Mauresmo; yes you heard correctly I said MAURESMO (a Woman famous for Choking all the time even moreso than Clisters).

When you compare who the Willimas or Sharapova had to beat to win their slams it compares unfavorably with Henin. And when i saw how badly Henin rolled over against Bartoli I just don't want to hear any more crap about Justine's alleged mental strength. Even Sharapova would have found a way to overcome the journeywomen that is know as Bartoli in that semi and not have rolled over as badly as Henin did losing the final set by 6-1. It was embrassing and I hope that a credible world no 1 will dethrone Henin from that inappropriate position. It's literally like having a paperweight boxing champion at no 1 that loses all his big fights to journeyman but never puts the title on the line unless its hand picked truck drivers or steelworkers.

In conclusion, Henin has to prove that she is the 'real' world no 1 and beat a former champion or dangerous up and comer in a tight grand slam match preferably off the safe haven of red clay.

In the last 4 years Henin has won 5 slams, Serena, Venus, Sharapova, Mauresmo only 2 each, Myskina, Kuznetsova, Clijsters one each. And Henin had the most weeks as #1.

I don't think she has to prove that she is the best female tennis player in the world anymore.

 

[anointedone]

Good Post!

I have been saying for awhile that Henin is overrated. She is a fantastic player and has achieved a great deal and may achieve more but the reality is that nobody knew who she was untill the Williams sisters went off the boil. And the arguments that say She got into her stride in 2003 fail to realise that between the end of 2003 and 2005 the Williams sisters were basically on a two year sabbatical which created this huge vortex that allowed Henin, Clisters and a pack of Russians to contest finals that they would in all likelyhood not contest having been routinely defeated in the semi's of most of the slams by a Williams.

I will give credit to Henin on her first French Open title despite the alleged incident, Serena should have been able to deal with it better. And we all saw what happened at Wimbledon a few weeks later when the reigning champion of Paris was given a sound thrashing that would make Sharapova's beatdown from Serena at the OZ open blush. Plus Henin has not been fortunate to beat finalists in her slams that were either chronic cokers (Clisters, Kutnetsova) or Occasion chokers ( Pierce and Ivanovic). When Henin met a former champ with a losing record ala Sharapova Henin folded badly. And Henin even rolled over in 2 Grand slam finals over Mauresmo; yes you heard correctly I said MAURESMO (a Woman famous for Choking all the time even moreso than Clisters).

When you compare who the Willimas or Sharapova had to beat to win their slams it compares unfavorably with Henin. And when i saw how badly Henin rolled over against Bartoli I just don't want to hear any more crap about Justine's alleged mental strength. Even Sharapova would have found a way to overcome the journeywomen that is know as Bartoli in that semi and not have rolled over as badly as Henin did losing the final set by 6-1. It was embrassing and I hope that a credible world no 1 will dethrone Henin from that inappropriate position. It's literally like having a paperweight boxing champion at no 1 that loses all his big fights to journeyman but never puts the title on the line unless its hand picked truck drivers or steelworkers.

In conclusion, Henin has to prove that she is the 'real' world no 1 and beat a former champion or dangerous up and comer in a tight grand slam match preferably off the safe haven of red clay.

Excellent accessment. You broke it down perfectly, and to why Henin's true mettle and true formidableness is something to be skeptical of.

The last part is also something I am waiting for to difuse some of my skepticsm of her. Win a tight grand slam match at the U.S Open or Wimbledon for example vs a multi-slam Champion type like Williams or Sharapova that is NOT at her personal haven-the French Open.

 

[babolat15]

op is true

 

[sureshs]

Wimbledon is the only Slam she hasn't won. How can she be a champion only on clay?

 

[anointedone]

Wimbledon is the only Slam she hasn't won. How can she be a champion only on clay?

True, but she did win her U.S Open and Australian Open quite awhile ago now, 3 and a half years since her last non-French Open Slam title. She did fail last year with grand opportunity, going 1-for-4 in slam finals, only winning at her beloved French Open. She also won her U.S Open and Australian Open, with the dominant non-clay (and would be clay too except for Henin herself) of the time, Serena Williams, absent. Obviously pointing out Serena being absent, or any key player including Henin herself being absent, from any slam today is not the same as Serena at any of Australia, Wimbledon, U.S Open then, except for if Henin were to miss the French today.

 

[Warriorroger]

I am starting to wonder if in some ways Justine Henin is somewhat of a clay court specialist, not just to the point of clay being her favorite and best surface which everyone knew it was, but to the point her being taken seriously as a championship quality player on other surfaces is a question.

She hasnt won a grand slam on a surface other then clay, the French Open of course, since the 2004 Australian Open. That is 3 and a half years ago now. She has lost in the 4th round of the U.S Open 4 of the last 6 years, not really impressive for a player of her stature. Last year she was supposed to be the favorite in all 4 of her slam finals, and yet she lost all 3 of her finals that were not the French Open final, the Australian to Mauresmo, the Wimbledon final to Mauresmo, and the U.S Open final to Sharapova.


Now obviously she is a phenomenal clay courter, the best clay courter of her generation by far, and one of the greatest women clay courters of all time. She has 4 French Open titles, and only Chris Evert (7), Suzanne Lenglen (6), Steffi Graf (6), Margaret Court (5), have more. However is she a champion on any surface other then clay.

What's your point, when was the last time the Williams'won on clay? So what if clay is your best surface. I am from Europe and I find clay extremely difficult to play on. Henin is far better tennisplayer than either of the two, much better shots. The Williams have to their advantage their build. They are the most powerful and have long arms. Do thy have a great looking game? Not IMO, I would rather watch Henin.

 

[The tennis guy]

She could silence alot of her critics by winning the U.S Open. It will be interesting to see if she can.

She will never silence critics like you. She had won US Open already. For whatever moron logic, it doesn't count somehow for you.

 

[FEDEXP]

Ridiculous thread from the anointed one.

 

[theballboy]

What's your point, when was the last time the Williams'won on clay? So what if clay is your best surface. I am from Europe and I find clay extremely difficult to play on. Henin is far better tennisplayer than either of the two, much better shots. The Williams have to their advantage their build. They are the most powerful and have long arms. Do thy have a great looking game? Not IMO, I would rather watch Henin.

Ridiculous. Serena is the better player, because she has accomplished more. And she has laid beatdowns on Henin numerous times.


That's why Serena has every slam?

 

[Warriorroger]

Ridiculous. Serena is the better player, because she has accomplished more. And she has laid beatdowns on Henin numerous times.


That's why Serena has every slam?

Ballkid/ballboy, if you are built like that and have power like that you will do well in any sport. It's like playing against a guy with t i t s.

 

[theballboy]

Ballkid/ballboy, if you are built like that and have power like that you will do well in any sport. It's like playing against a guy with t i t s.

You included Venus in your post. Venus is shorter and lighter than Sharapova. Is Sharapova going to win six slams?


This is why lots of people don't like tennis. In ANY other sport, if someone had said, "well, they're not good at it, they're just better physically," they'd laugh at you. FOr some reason ,it's ok to say things like this regarding tennis.

Reflxes, anticipation, the ability to hit a nice looking backhand, etc, are just as natural and god given as your physical abilities. Seperating them for the sake of who's "better" is silly.

 

[Ripper]

Justine is the best player out there. She'd get, even, better results had she been built stronger. She's playing against beasts, compared to her.

 

[blinkinrogue]

I agree with the others that justine doesnt have to prove herself, winning the uso and ao is enough proof for me that she can win majors not on clay. I also dont believe in the "logic" that if player A or B played in this or that tourny, justine wouldn't have won. That's downright disrespectful of henin's achievements. First, she didnt threaten or force anybody to withdraw, she had nothing to do with it. What did you want her to do? withdraw too because the people you think who deserved to win are not playing??? sheessh. THINK. Also, player A or B are not 100% sure to have won it, even if they played. That is why it's called sports, you can get knocked out by anybody. Justine already won USO and AO whether you like it or not, and it's not going to change.

 

[anointedone]

Ridiculous. Serena is the better player, because she has accomplished more. And she has laid beatdowns on Henin numerous times.


That's why Serena has every slam?

Exactly. Justine is a great player, but she cant even be anywhere close to Serena's league until she wins some more non-French Open slams. Right now the two dont even compare. It is looking like Henin's career is destined to be rememered as one of the greats on clay, not one of the greats period, unless something changes drastically. Serena is already entrenched as one of the greats period.

 

[ITF]

Sharapova has only beaten Henin twice. Henin leads her on hard 3-2.

 

[ITF]

whoops you had that right. Can people not delete posts here?

 

[kimizz]

Lets look at JH:s stats. 2 slams in non-clay tournaments. 4 GS finals in non-clay tournaments. Then all the titles by surface: Hard (19), Clay (12), Grass (3), Carpet (1)(Source wikipedia). So is this player a clay specialist? No! She happens to be extremely talented on clay yet she can succeed on other surfaces as well.

 

[plain jane]

I personally dont like Justine, but i can say that she is a great player (You dont buy a #1 ranking do u?). Being a #1 player is no easy feat. What is find laughable is when people compare her to Federer and other former GREAT female players like Graf and Navratilova. Her results just can not compare IMO. As for mental toughness i just cant see it (She may have beaten Jankovic coming from behind in both sets but Jankovic does not impress me in the mental derpartment either)

 

[Warriorroger]

I personally dont like Justine, but i can say that she is a great player (You dont buy a #1 ranking do u?). Being a #1 player is no easy feat. What is find laughable is when people compare her to Federer and other former GREAT female players like Graf and Navratilova. Her results just can not compare IMO. As for mental toughness i just cant see it (She may have beaten Jankovic coming from behind in both sets but Jankovic does not impress me in the mental derpartment either)

You're right. Justine is one of the most talented strikers of the ball I have seen since Gabriela Sabatini, who als had these beautiful shots (lacking in the service department), but as far as the mental game is concerned, she is lucky to be in this era. Had she been in the Graf era, or Seles era, she would have big problems, not tenniswise, but surely how to win a match against players who never show if they are losing or winning.

 

[tennispro11]

Seriously, HENIN is OVERRATED.

Sure her game might be nice to watch but, the stats you people have provided are pretty irrvelent...Have you noticed that:

Henin's 2003 USOPEN = SERENA DID NOT PLAY
Henin's 2004 AUSSIE OPEN = SERENA DID NOT PLAY
Henin's 2003 FRENCH = Cheated against SERENA (Seriously, Serena did nothing wrong. She simply said she should've gotten a first serve. Henin doesn't have the **** to admit to her hand)

Simply, Venus and Serena has accomplished more than Henin individually.

Serena vs Henin:
-Serena has More slams
-Serena has all of the slams
-Serena is accomplished in doubles
*If you look at opponents in finals, Serena has gotten higher quality opponents who aren't known to choke. VENUS vs CLIJSTERS


Venus vs Henin:
-Tied slams but, Wimbledon is more prestigous than the French
-Venus has more doubles


Its pretty stupid how everyone really overrates Henin and underrates the Williams Sisters. Its pretty sad to the point some bafoons would accuse the Williams Sisters of being males.

Keep spewing your pro-Williams nonsense. Anyone that has a different opinion from yours is an idiot. Your ridiculous. BTW, any slam is prestigious. All pros would like to win one, just one and it wouldn't have to be a certain one.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Justine can play and win on all surfaces. She got a all court game and does very well at the net! Look at her record. It speaks for itself! Justine is 26 years old and has six majors. She will win them all eventually!

Justine if not the best player every; when she retires; she will be with them! Time will tell but just watching her play and one can tell that she is going to be hard to beat. Mentally she is extremely tough! She can comeback 0-5 and win the set! Done it many times! Not many players can do this consistantly!

 

[ohlori]

You included Venus in your post. Venus is shorter and lighter than Sharapova. Is Sharapova going to win six slams?


This is why lots of people don't like tennis. In ANY other sport, if someone had said, "well, they're not good at it, they're just better physically," they'd laugh at you. FOr some reason ,it's ok to say things like this regarding tennis.

Reflxes, anticipation, the ability to hit a nice looking backhand, etc, are just as natural and god given as your physical abilities. Seperating them for the sake of who's "better" is silly.

But Europeans aren't that much interested in the raw power that you often see in American sports.
Lots of people watch soccer for the ball artists, with their delicate passes and beautiful ballstriking.

 

[blinkinrogue]

seriously what were you thinking about a henin-hater, of course he/she would be bias i am not surprised LOL.

again, like i said, i think it is silly to say jh won bec player a or b didnt join. not like she forced them to withdraw and the tennis world does not revolve around the williams sisters, just because they werent playing, the us open and australian open shouldnt go on LOL. maybe what the rabid fans would have liked is that the other wta players had to wait until the williams sisters decided they wanted to play then they could hold the UO and AO. Lol.

Again, hate her or love her, jh has 6 majors and 29 other titles on all surfaces, and her legacy will never be forgotten. If some people find that a bitter pill to swallow, that's their problem. allez justine!

 

[kimizz]

Seriously, HENIN is OVERRATED.

Sure her game might be nice to watch but, the stats you people have provided are pretty irrvelent...Have you noticed that:

Henin's 2003 USOPEN = SERENA DID NOT PLAY
Henin's 2004 AUSSIE OPEN = SERENA DID NOT PLAY

LOL Serena AO05=Henin didnt play
Serena AO07=Henin didnt play, those are her last 2 slams

 

[blinkinrogue]

LOL Serena AO05=Henin didnt play
Serena AO07=Henin didnt play, those are her last 2 slams

LOL now that you mentioned it hahaha good one (a taste of one's medicine?).

 

[Warriorroger]

But Europeans aren't that much interested in the raw power that you often see in American sports.
Lots of people watch soccer for the ball artists, with their delicate passes and beautiful ballstriking.

I do like power, on the women's side I enjoyed the power of the Graf forehand, I liked Seles's powershots, I just don't like the tennis of the Williams', maybe Venus I do, but not Serena. IMO it's not nice tennis to look at, when you're as strong as that of course you hit winners and that kind of serve. But see what happens when you make her move, it's awful. Her match at RG against Henine showed that she is not a great athlete, although she and her fans seem to think so. An athlete moves like Steffi Graf, Roger Federer, Martina Navratilova, Pete Sampras, Justine Henin.

Back to the topic: to win on clay is might difficult thing to do. Just aks Roger Federer.

 

[Rabbit]

The OP is way off base. First, Henin made the finals of all 4 Grand Slams in 2006, something Serena has never done. Henin has 6 Grand Slam titles to Serena's 8. She's two behind. In my book that ain't an ass whooping. You could just as easily say that Serena needs to win more French Opens to prove she's an all surface player. She's only won 1.

Henin has 1 Australian, 1 US Open, and 4 French Opens. The only Slam she's failed to win is Wimbledon. Her record there is 2 1R losses (once in her first attempt in 1999 and her first year as a pro, and one after her 2nd French Open title which is not uncommon), 3 semi-finals, and 2 finals. Her overall record is 28 - 7 at Wimbledon.

Serena is 36 - 6 at Wimbledon going back to 1998. She has made the finals 3 times with 2 wins, 1 semi-final, 2 QFs, and 2 3R efforts.

Hmm...it appears to me as if Henin may be more consistent at Wimbledon.

OK, if we look at prize money, Henin has won 16M to Serena's 18M. Henin turned pro in 1999 while Serena turned pro in 1995. So, Henin has averaged 2M/year in prize money while Serena has averaged 1.5M. Henin seems to be way more consistent again.

What about YTD? Well, Henin is 43-4 on the year and Williams is 26-5. Henin has 1M more in prize money. Williams has 2 titles and Henin has 6. I'd say the tide is turning in Henin's favor.

What about lifetime? Well, Williams overall is 346 - 72 for a .82 winning percentage while Henin is 457 - 103 .81 winning percentage. It strikes me odd though that Henin has more matches and less years on the tour.

I don't know, I think Henin has proved that she's an all court player of anyone's equal.

Currently, Williams leads 6-5 over Henin. Henin has won 2/3 meetings in 2007. One meeting was on clay and one on grass. Williams' win comes on hard at Miami. Since 2003, Henin has won 4-6 from Williams.

When all is said and done, I firmly believe that Henin will wind up with a bigger Grand Slam count than either Williams sister.