New Phantom Pro (18x20) (320)

[2nd Serve Ace]

Played doubles tonight and tried to keep using the PP18x20 and struggled still with serving. Part I know is mental from my fading performance using this on Monday with singles. I’m beginning to wonder perhaps if the PP100P may be the better transition from the Graphite 100 I’ve used last 4 years.

The PP100 Pro just feels too light and unstable after using the 18x20.

The two tour models offer ample power but I’m too tentative to swing out with these as they feel too powerful almost. I still will try to get out once more and hit and hopefully come to some consensus. Really disappointed in my performance today after what was the brief honeymoon period on Monday for few hours with the 18x20. I’ll keep at it.

I wish P could stiffen up the PP to maybe about 61-62 range and then I bet it would be a more usable frame.

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[tata]

Played doubles tonight and tried to keep using the PP18x20 and struggled still with serving. Part I know is mental from my fading performance using this on Monday with singles. I’m beginning to wonder perhaps if the PP100P may be the better transition from the Graphite 100 I’ve used last 4 years.

The PP100 Pro just feels too light and unstable after using the 18x20.

The two tour models offer ample power but I’m too tentative to swing out with these as they feel too powerful almost. I still will try to get out once more and hit and hopefully come to some consensus. Really disappointed in my performance today after what was the brief honeymoon period on Monday for few hours with the 18x20. I’ll keep at it.

Had a brief stint with graphite 100 and now using phantom 100p. The spacing in the strings is different so the graphite had more ball bite on it so spins were better on the graphite. Phantom is a little more precise, especially when flattening out. Comfort and feel is similar. I felt the graphite had less power but then again I didn't stick with it for long. If I tried lowering string tension more then maybe it could have worked out. So they are similar but I am not sure if that's a good thing for you.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I wish P could stiffen up the PP to maybe about 61-62 range and then I bet it would be a more usable frame.

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That’s what the 93p is for.

 

[jbdbackfan]

Had a brief stint with graphite 100 and now using phantom 100p. The spacing in the strings is different so the graphite had more ball bite on it so spins were better on the graphite. Phantom is a little more precise, especially when flattening out. Comfort and feel is similar. I felt the graphite had less power but then again I didn't stick with it for long. If I tried lowering string tension more then maybe it could have worked out. So they are similar but I am not sure if that's a good thing for you.

Probably is good thing. I am enjoying my graphites but they are starting to get beat up. I've added weight to the graphites to get spec which is pretty close to the PP100P (maybe heavier). Just felt the PP100 18x20 suffered greatly on serve maneuverability and were you punished if you didn't set yourself up right for shots, or were late.

 

[tata]

Probably is good thing. I am enjoying my graphites but they are starting to get beat up. I've added weight to the graphites to get spec which is pretty close to the PP100P (maybe heavier). Just felt the PP100 18x20 suffered greatly on serve maneuverability and were you punished if you didn't set yourself up right for shots, or were late.

Give it a demo. At the end of the day it's still a player's frame so sub par preparation and late timing gets punished. Phantom 100p does swing heavier according to the specs.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Give it a demo. At the end of the day it's still a player's frame so sub par preparation and late timing gets punished. Phantom 100p does swing heavier according to the specs.

The Prince 100 18x20 has a 326 SW and the Pure Aero a 324 SW. Why are you late and being punished? Why are you struggling with maneuverability.

Yes the Pure Aero will transfer more energy to the ball but that can be adjusted for with a few pounds of string tension. But you should be able to get fairly equivalent RHS.

 

[flanker2000fr]

The Prince 100 18x20 has a 326 SW and the Pure Aero a 324 SW. Why are you late and being punished? Why are you struggling with maneuverability.

Yes the Pure Aero will transfer more energy to the ball but that can be adjusted for with a few pounds of string tension. But you should be able to get fairly equivalent RHS.

I don't know about the Pure Aero, as I have no experience with this racquet, but if comparing one of the Phantom 100 (PP100 / PP100 18x20 / PP100P) to a Classic 100, couldn't the lack of maneuverability be related to twist weight? I couldn't find the twist weight of the Classic 100, but the Longbody version of this racquet has a twist weight of 13.5 vs. 15 for the Phantom 100's.

Comparing the 93P and the PP100P, which have similar SW, I do find the PP100P more cumbersome to swing, and I can only point to its higher twist weight to explain this.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

The Prince 100 18x20 has a 326 SW and the Pure Aero a 324 SW. Why are you late and being punished? Why are you struggling with maneuverability.

Yes the Pure Aero will transfer more energy to the ball but that can be adjusted for with a few pounds of string tension. But you should be able to get fairly equivalent RHS.

Don't forget the beam thickness and stiffness. The phantoms have ok SW stats, but that goes out the window if the frame isn't in motion.

There is inherent power from a stiffer beam that helps on a lot of shots for the rec player.

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[Dartagnan64]

Don't forget the beam thickness and stiffness. The phantoms have ok SW stats, but that goes out the window if the frame isn't in motion.

There is inherent power from a stiffer beam that helps on a lot of shots for the rec player.

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True but I can usually make that up with a more powerful string setup.

Comparing the 93P and the PP100P, which have similar SW, I do find the PP100P more cumbersome to swing, and I can only point to its higher twist weight to explain this.

I think its the smaller head making it more aerodynamic. That and the more headlight balance.

 

[flanker2000fr]

I think its the smaller head making it more aerodynamic. That and the more headlight balance.

The beams are the same, and the 93P has a much denser string pattern, so I'm not sure I buy into the aerodynamics factor. As for balance, this is compensated by a much higher static weight, hence very comparable SW of 329 (100P) vs. 330 (93P).

Twist weight, however, is quite different at 14.9 (100P) vs. 13.8 (93P).

And where I do experience this feeling of the racquet being more cumbersome is not when I accelerate through the ball, but during the preparation, or even changing grip between FH and BH.

Another slight knock I have on the 100P is the lack of control once out of the sweetspot. Granted it has a large sweetspot, but with the very open string pattern, the ball tends to fly if I hit too close to the edge.

This is not enough to make me give up the 100P though, it's still a very good frame.

 

[Dartagnan64]

The beams are the same, and the 93P has a much denser string pattern, so I'm not sure I buy into the aerodynamics factor. As for balance, this is compensated by a much higher static weight, hence very comparable SW of 329 (100P) vs. 330 (93P).

Twist weight, however, is quite different at 14.9 (100P) vs. 13.8 (93P).

And where I do experience this feeling of the racquet being more cumbersome is not when I accelerate through the ball, but during the preparation, or even changing grip between FH and BH.

Another slight knock I have on the 100P is the lack of control once out of the sweetspot. Granted it has a large sweetspot, but with the very open string pattern, the ball tends to fly if I hit too close to the edge.

This is not enough to make me give up the 100P though, it's still a very good frame.

Yes I prefer the 18x20 Phantoms for their control

 

[Dartagnan64]

Played my second match in our seniors tournament. Lost @ 3 &3. Sadly couldn’t help my wild serving partner hold his games.

My serving was incredible with the 18x20. My opponent after the match said I hit the same spot in the ad corner over and over again. Didn’t miss a first serve until the second set. Missed 3 first serves all match.

 

[Tommy Haas]

Does the PP100 18x20 play better with a higher SW or more HH? Being more HH does result in a higher SW, but given the same static weight, if one was more HL with a higher SW and one was more HH with a lower SW. Which do you think would play better for an advanced baseliner?

 

[Dartagnan64]

Does the PP100 18x20 play better with a higher SW or more HH? Being more HH does result in a higher SW, but given the same static weight, if one was more HL with a higher SW and one was more HH with a lower SW. Which do you think would play better for an advanced baseliner?

Everything depends on your muscle memory and racket experience. If someone is used to light HH racquets they’ll struggle with a heavy HL Racquet.

So to answer your question, if you come from a Pure Aero world you’ll play better with something like a PA which would be the more HH lower SW stick.

 

[time_fly]

I might be the minority here, but I'm really enjoying this stick for singles. I do have 2-3g of lead at 12 for a little extra power. But I can construct points with this racquet using the precision and control, and swing out without fear of over-hitting. I do miss having some more free power on serve, but otherwise I feel like the pros outweigh the cons. It's not like I can rip instant winners from behind the baseline against too many players even when using a stiffer racquet. The thin beam does a great job of helping the racquet still feel quick and maneuverable while still having the stability and forgiveness of a heavier 100" frame.

 

[grhcan99]

Has anybody played with the Prince Tour 100 18x20? I'm just wondering if I'd just be wasting money getting this when my pair of newish Tour 100 18x20 plays similarly.

 

[time_fly]

Has anybody played with the Prince Tour 100 18x20? I'm just wondering if I'd just be wasting money getting this when my pair of newish Tour 100 18x20 plays similarly.

I played the EXO3 Tour 100 18x20. I think the Phantom feels a lot more solid and stable. With my EXO3 Tour I sometimes felt like I was flogging the ball with a noodle. The Phantom still has a lot of flex but it doesn't have that same insubstantial feel. It also provides more feedback at contact than the ported Prince frames.

 

[grhcan99]

I played the EXO3 Tour 100 18x20. I think the Phantom feels a lot more solid and stable. With my EXO3 Tour I sometimes felt like I was flogging the ball with a noodle. The Phantom still has a lot of flex but it doesn't have that same insubstantial feel. It also provides more feedback at contact than the ported Prince frames.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Hansen]

i´m bored, so here is a string spacing comparison between The PP 18x20 and VCore 16x20

 

[Dartagnan64]

i´m bored, so here is a string spacing comparison between The PP 18x20 and VCore 16x20

Looks surprisingly similar.

 

[Hansen]

will see how the pp 18x20 performs in comparison. i hope that is plays like a more comfortable (bigger sweetspot) version of the vcore, with similar contol and spin.

 

[hurworld]

will see how the pp 18x20 performs in comparison. i hope that is plays like a more comfortable (bigger sweetspot) version of the vcore, with similar contol and spin.

What's the string set-up for both?

 

[Hansen]

velocity 1.30 / cream 1.28 according to racquettune at 15 kg

 

[hurworld]

velocity 1.30 / cream 1.28 according to racquettune at 15 kg

~33lbs main/cross? would be interesting to know your thoughts on how they play.

 

[Hansen]

the tension on the machine was 20/19 kg, but my machine and clamps aren´t very good and i´m a lazy stringer (but i´m still consistent, because the racquettune tension is always 4 kg lower).

 

[grhcan99]

racquettune tension is always 4 kg lower).

Just curious. How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Hansen]

racquettune doesn´t generally gives out 4kg less, but in my case.
if i string at 22 kg, 24 hours later racquettune measures 18 kg
if i string at 19 kg, 24 hours later racquettune measures 15 kg, etc

 

[grhcan99]

racquettune doesn´t generally gives out 4kg less, but in my case.
if i string at 22 kg, 24 hours later racquettune measures 18 kg
if i string at 19 kg, 24 hours later racquettune measures 15 kg, etc

What did you expect the tension to be after 24 hours then?

 

[Hansen]

would be interesting to know your thoughts on how they play.

after my first hitting session here a few impressions:

with overgrip and strings my pp 18x20 weights 336gr. at that weight the stability is relatively good, but 2gr. of lead (total) at 10 and 2 o´clock could be of advantage (like the tw playtesters said already).
in my opinion it is kind of a niche racquet, due to the combination of its characteristics (open 18x20 pattern, 100 headsize, low flex).

spin / control: despite the 18x20 pattern it´s relatively easy to hit a loopy trajectory and be very consistent, without getting flyers on less spinny shots. the response is similar to a more control oriented angell k7.
for example: if i try to maximize the spin with my dr98 i get an overspun shot (not enough length). with the pp 18x20 i get good netclearence and a penetrating ball. with a normal 18x20 racquet in comparioson its hard to get a lot of net clearance.

feel: the feel is firmer than the ra indicates (feels firmer than my dr98for example) but comfortable.

power: is low (lower than dr 98) and a softer poly at lower tension or gut / poly should produce the best results.

 

[Hansen]

What did you expect the tension to be after 24 hours then?

4kg are a bit much don´t you think.

 

[lima]

after my first hitting session here a few impressions:

with overgrip and strings my pp 18x20 weights 336gr. at that weight the stability is relatively good, but 2gr. of lead (total) at 10 and 2 o´clock could be of advantage (like the tw playtesters said already).
in my opinion it is kind of a niche racquet, due to the combination of its characteristics (open 18x20 pattern, 100 headsize, low flex).

spin / control: despite the 18x20 pattern it´s relatively easy to hit a loopy trajectory and be very consistent, without getting flyers on less spinny shots. the response is similar to a more control oriented angell k7.
for example: if i try to maximize the spin with my dr98 i get an overspun shot (not enough length). with the pp 18x20 i get good netclearence and a penetrating ball. with a normal 18x20 racquet in comparioson its hard to get a lot of net clearance.

feel: the feel is firmer than the ra indicates (feels firmer than my dr98for example) but comfortable.

power: is low (lower than dr 98) and a softer poly at lower tension or gut / poly should produce the best results.

I also found that my Phantom 100P Pro is firmer than DR98 despite lower RA

 

[Dartagnan64]

I also found that my Phantom 100P Pro is firmer than DR98 despite lower RA

I find the pro 100 is significantly softer compared to my 93P. All very arm friendly but there is more crispness to the box beam.

 

[Hansen]

dr98 is really an outlier, feels way softer than the ra would suggest

 

[grhcan99]

4kg are a bit much don´t you think.

I don't want to deviate from the main topic anymore than necessary but yes 4kg is a bit high. Could rate of tension loss be string type/brand related, type of machine used, duration at pulling string if CP? I mean if I get this result consistently and want to avoid it then I would pull my strings longer (I have CP machine) like 5-10 seconds on the mains and maybe more on the crosses (JET protocol uses 5 secs on main and 20 on crosses). This way you minimize tension loss at the start. Just a thought.

But back at the 18x20 topic

 

[Dartagnan64]

dr98 is really an outlier, feels way softer than the ra would suggest

I liked the DR98 but didn’t find it overly soft in my demo experience. Kind of fell between a CV Blade and a 2015 Blade. But harsher than any of the Phantoms in my experience.

Agree that Yonex in general plays softer than advertised. Whereas Head seems to play firmer than advertised.

 

[Tao69]

I find the pro 100 is significantly softer compared to my 93P. All very arm friendly but there is more crispness to the box beam.

Do you have a leather grip on the Pro 100 18x20?

I’ve just put a fairway grip on mine and I’m looking forward to when I eventually string it up.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Do you have a leather grip on the Pro 100 18x20?

I’ve just put a fairway grip on mine and I’m looking forward to when I eventually string it up.

No still have the original Grip with a Wilson overgrip. I wonder about moving to the leather like my 93P but I'm not lacking feel with the current setup so it's not a big need right now. And it would make it a bit more HL than I probably want. Right now the balance is very similar to the 93P which I like.

 

[Balaji_R]

Is this Phantom pro 100 18 20 a TE cure frame? How does this compare with some of the prokennex like ki 5 320, q+ tour pro 315, 325?

 

[Linh]

I had tennis elbow playing with Pure Strike 2 days a week. Switched to this frame and am playing 4 days week pain free.

 

[Tao69]

Is this Phantom pro 100 18 20 a TE cure frame? How does this compare with some of the prokennex like ki 5 320, q+ tour pro 315, 325?

I haven’t strung mine up, but I’d imagine it would be, lower RDC at 55 and one of the lowest vibration frequencies at 135.

 

[gburgh]

Really like this racquet, no tennis elbow issues but for some reason have been having some wrist pain with it.

 

[t_pac]

Is this Phantom pro 100 18 20 a TE cure frame? How does this compare with some of the prokennex like ki 5 320, q+ tour pro 315, 325?

I've got a demo of the Phantom I'm hoping to test tomorrow, and the PK Q Tour 325 is my main racquet so I should be able to give you an answer soon

The PK is definitely very comfortable, but I'd expect the Phantom to beat it. No amount of dampening tech can beat a low RA.

The PK is seriously good though - power, plow, amazing control, touch...proper modern players frame.

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[Balaji_R]

I've got a demo of the Phantom I'm hoping to test tomorrow, and the PK Q Tour 325 is my main racquet so I should be able to give you an answer soon

The PK is definitely very comfortable, but I'd expect the Phantom to beat it. No amount of dampening tech can beat a low RA.

The PK is seriously good though - power, plow, amazing control, touch...proper modern players frame.

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Thanks a lot. Yes , waiting for your comparison hehe.
Have you also hit with q+ tour pro 315 1619 and ki 5 320 1620 from prokennex? Isn't q+ tour pro very demanding, is that helping in defense?

 

[t_pac]

Hit with the Phantom tonight, mix of decent level singles and dubs.

The Phantom is definitely more comfy than the PK (as I expected), and that's with Prince synth gut rather than the Velocity I have in the PKs.

Phantom has better feel, looks better (it's a beautiful frame) and a little better touch on volleys. Feels a bit quicker through the air than the PK so I felt as though spin came a little easier and less tiring after nearly 4 hours of playing.

The PK has the edge on put away power, stability and plow through. I think a smidge of lead at 10 and 2 on the Phantom would probably fix that though.

Control very similar, maybe slightly better with the Phantom.

I've ordered two

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[Dartagnan64]

Phantom has better feel, looks better (it's a beautiful frame) and a little better touch on volleys.

I think it has a lot better touch on volleys but then I think the 100 18x20 is the best volleying stick I’ve ever used.

But I’d agree the PK is a little more stable and more power.

 

[t_pac]

You may be right, I was volleying really well tonight but it's generally a strong part of my game anyway. I did hit a couple of nasty little drop volleys that felt great.

Do you have any lead on yours?

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[Balaji_R]

Nice. Thanks guys. Does PK ki 5 320 and Q+ tour pro 315 16 19 have good control, plow, stability, comfort , manuverability as well ?

 

[t_pac]

I've not used them myself

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[Dartagnan64]

You may be right, I was volleying really well tonight but it's generally a strong part of my game anyway. I did hit a couple of nasty little drop volleys that felt great.

Do you have any lead on yours?

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Couple grams at the tip. Nothing too crazy. I really like the balance stock so I didn’t want to screw that up too much. But I like my SW nearer 335.

And the nasty drop volley with this frame is addictive.

 

[Tommy Haas]

Couple grams at the tip. Nothing too crazy. I really like the balance stock so I didn’t want to screw that up too much. But I like my SW nearer 335.

Is the PP100 18x20 in stock form polarized?