Peak Djokovic (2011) is NOT better than peak Federer

[revolutiontenniz]

1) Federer beat Djokovic at French Open
2) He almost beat him at US Open (had a few match points, was leading 5-3, 40-15 in the fifth set), not an excuse but it obviously means he had the ability to beat peak Djokovic. (If Federer won this match, he would've led 2-1 in their 3 slam meetings).
3) Don't forget that 2011 Federer is not peak Federer. If it was peak Federer, the result of their last match would very likely have been different.


The gap between 2011 Federer and 2011 Djokovic is not that big.
So stop saying peak Djokovic would destroy peak Federer, aight?


2011 French Open:

2011 US Open where Federer blew his chance to win the match (go to 21:46)

 

[Shank Volley]

It's really not worth it, dude. Djokovic fans will always believe Djokovic's peak was higher, and Federer's fans will always believe Federer's peak was higher. All that remains is to wait and see whose memory ages better. At the moment there's a good chance it'll be Federer because he's by far the more revered of the two.

 

[Tennisanity]

This is true OP. But peak Djokovic is better than peak Nadal overall. See 2011, 6 finals across all surfaces.

 

[revolutiontenniz]

It's really not worth it, dude. Djokovic fans will always believe Djokovic's peak was higher, and Federer's fans will always believe Federer's peak was higher. All that remains is to wait and see whose memory ages better. At the moment there's a good chance it'll be Federer because he's by far the more revered of the two.

Well you'd come to the same conclusion if you look at this in an objective/logical way, with facts. It is safe to say peak Djokovic is hardly better than peak Federer.

 

[ForumMember]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

 

[True Fanerer]

The many faces of Federer..

 

[Meles]

1) Federer beat Djokovic at French Open
2) He almost beat him at US Open (had a few match points, was leading 5-3, 40-15 in the fifth set), not an excuse but it obviously means he had the ability to beat peak Djokovic. (If Federer won this match, he would've led 2-1 in their 3 slam meetings).
3) Don't forget that 2011 Federer is not peak Federer. If it was peak Federer, the result of their last match would very likely have been different.


The gap between 2011 Federer and 2011 Djokovic is not that big.
So stop saying peak Djokovic would destroy peak Federer, aight?


2011 French Open:

2011 US Open where Federer blew his chance to win the match (go to 21:46)

Well Peakovic was 2015-2016 and that player would have been a load. The 2011 version had a great return, but no so much on the serve game. These things are complicated, but its very clear if you'd transferred Peakovic in a time stream back to Federer prime it would have been about as rude awakening as Nadal and Murray were when not even in their prime. Take 2017 Fed back against his old self and it would have been real ugly.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

You strike me as a bright fellow. You also like the word "destroyed." Do you have a good word to characterize the past five?

 

[tennis_pro]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

Go eat a sandwich.

 

[ForumMember]

You strike me as a bright fellow. You also like the word "destroyed." Do you have a good word to characterize the past five?

Thanks for your appreciation. I could have been better but now I am past my peak.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Thanks for your appreciation. I could have been better but now I am past my peak.

That's life, eh? Fed found a way to press on. Perhaps you can take inspiration from him?

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

This doesn't really make any sense when 2011 Fed and 2015 Fed beat said "Peak" Djokovic

Then again hypothetically inserting anyone into another era inherently makes no sense.

 

[ForumMember]

That's life, eh? Fed found a way to press on. Perhaps you can take inspiration from him?

Yeah I do take inspiration from Fed on pressing on. He didn't give up and always tried to find a way against better opposition.

But I also learn from Fed-cult members and attribute my all failures on my being past peak.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

.

 

[ForumMember]

This doesn't really make any sense when 2011 Fed and 2015 Fed beat said "Peak" Djokovic

Then again hypothetically inserting anyone into another era inherently makes no sense.

Absolutely agree. But I am just playing around in the spirit this thread has been created. It is all speculation and you can speculate the way you feel happier.

 

[smoledman]

Peak Federer was Nov 2003 to Jan 2007. Untouchable off clay.

 

[Devin]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

Peak Federer and 2008 don't go together, sorry.

 

[ForumMember]

Have you considered attributing your failures to your fandom?

No. Excuse of being past peak is very powerful. You don't have to look beyond. Thousands on this forum swear by this philosophy. Who am I to question collective wisdom of thousands.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager.

VB still trotting out this lame chestnut.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

Absolutely agree. But I am just playing around in the spirit this thread has been created. It is all speculation and you can speculate the way you feel happier.

FWIW I have zero problem saying Djokovic was the better player in 2011 and 2015 (dk any sensible people that wouldn't). And I've said that many times (despite my opinion that Federer was extremely unlucky to lose that USO match in 2011). I think it's an interesting thing to wonder but I won't pretend to know who would win peak vs peak.

I felt like Djokovic was much more beatable in 2011 from a Federer vs Djokovic perspective. 2015 I never really had any confidence whatsoever any time they met up, regardless of form.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

No. Excuse of being past peak is very powerful. You don't have to look beyond. Thousands on this forum swear by this philosophy. Who am I to question collective wisdom of thousands.

You are ForumMember; that is who!

Everything about your identity on here screams "individuality." Now go out there and make a bold statement.

 

[ForumMember]

Peak Federer was Nov 2003 to Jan 2007. Untouchable off clay.

So basically the time period where he had to compete mainly with Roddicks, Hewitts and Baghdatis. In between Dubai 2006 and Miami 2004 was off clay. Isn't it?

 

[ForumMember]

You are ForumMember; that is who!

Everything about your identity on here screams "individuality." Now go out there and make a bold statement.

I surrendered my all identities to adopt one of being member of this forum. Now I am obligated follow the philosophy of majority of this forum that is all failures are to be linked with your imaginative peak.

 

[axlrose]

Federer will be remembered as a greater player, but 2011 is always the Mount Everest in tennis.

Remember Nadal was still great in 2011 and 30 y-o Federer was better than any player Federer had to face during 2003-2007.

You can't have everything you want in life, don't be so greedy

 

[Deleted member 743561]

.

 

[metsman]

Take 2017 Fed back against his old self and it would have been real ugly.

Agreed, good thing that Goffin and Donskoy were not around during Fraud's "peak". Haas too.

 

[Shank Volley]

Federer will be remembered as a greater player, but 2011 is always the Mount Everest in tennis.

Remember Nadal was still great in 2011 and 30 y-o Federer was better than any player Federer had to face during 2003-2007.

You can't have everything you want in life, don't be so greedy

Because....the players from that period couldn't beat Federer when he was 25 and in the prime of his life? Federer at 25 is better than Roddick at his very best so Federer at 30 is also better than Roddick at his very best? Because you say so? Alright

 

[ForumMember]

That is admirable of you. As a dedicated Nadal flunky, though, surely you can appreciate the power of bending reality? You can find a way to rationalize Nadal getting solved by the oldest version of Federer, right?

A rational me would like to appreciate Federer for what he has done. But Forum tell it's member that Federer has been on downward spiral from his Peakest of Peak of 2005-06 and now he has defeated long-time nemesis not because he has improved but because his long nemesis is miserable now and Federer is just feasting on the misery of his long-time nemesis. Being a forum member I have to believe what Forum says to me.

 

[ForumMember]

FWIW I have zero problem saying Djokovic was the better player in 2011 and 2015 (dk any sensible people that wouldn't). And I've said that many times (despite my opinion that Federer was extremely unlucky to lose that USO match in 2011). I think it's an interesting thing to wonder but I won't pretend to know who would win peak vs peak.

I felt like Djokovic was much more beatable in 2011 from a Federer vs Djokovic perspective. 2015 I never really had any confidence whatsoever any time they met up, regardless of form.

With the kind of weapons that Federer posseses he would always have chances against any version of any player including peakest Djokovic. There is no other player I would say that thing about.

 

[Meles]

Agreed, good thing that Goffin and Donskoy were not around during Fraud's "peak". Haas too.

Forced to agree on Fed's record in general

 

[Deleted member 743561]

A rational me would like to appreciate Federer for what he has done. But Forum tell it's member that Federer has been on downward spiral from his Peakest of Peak of 2005-06 and now he has defeated long-time nemesis not because he has improved but because his long nemesis is miserable now and Federer is just feasting on the misery of his long-time nemesis. Being a forum member I have to believe what Forum says to me.

It sounds like you've worked things out for yourself. I'd imagine that future destructions will see your wisdom increasing even more.

 

[ForumMember]

It sounds like you've worked things out for yourself. I'd imagine that future destructions will see your wisdom increasing even more.

Yes. This Forum has helped me discover only truth of this ephemeral world. And that truth is "Any version of Federer has been, is and will always be a very pale shadow of Federer of 04-06". Having discovered this truth, my wisdom will continue to increase till very eternity.

 

[metsman]

Yes. This Forum has helped me discover only truth of this ephemeral world. And that truth is "Any version of Federer has been, is and will always be a very pale shadow of Federer of 04-06". Having discovered this truth, my wisdom will continue to increase till very eternity.

well not 03 WImby, 03 YEC, or 07 AO. Those are right there with 04-06. Still got a lot to learn, rook.

 

[MS_07]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

Lol. Peak Fed lost one match again a teenager who is now competing with him to be GOAT.
That teenager has not seen a good competition outside Fedal. All his career is revolving around beating these 2. Which he has barely managed.
Any GOAT candidate teenager could have destroyed Joker in 2007-17 decade, but there has been none. Look at Nick vs Joker H2H. Nick is not even worthy of being called great.

Weak era?

 

[axlrose]

Because....the players from that period couldn't beat Federer when he was 25 and in the prime of his life? Federer at 25 is better than Roddick at his very best so Federer at 30 is also better than Roddick at his very best? Because you say so? Alright

Yes, 30 y-o Federer better than any version of Roddick, in general.

He would win at least 7 times out of 10 in that hypothetical match-up.

 

[vex]

It's really not worth it, dude. Djokovic fans will always believe Djokovic's peak was higher, and Federer's fans will always believe Federer's peak was higher. All that remains is to wait and see whose memory ages better. At the moment there's a good chance it'll be Federer because he's by far the more revered of the two.

Pretty much this.

As a Djoker fan I think its pretty clear myself tho just based on the eye test. Fed fans obviously feel otherwise. No one will ever win any debates here. Moving on.

 

[merwy]

Pretty much this.

As a Djoker fan I think its pretty clear myself tho just based on the eye test. Fed fans obviously feel otherwise. No one will ever win any debates here. Moving on.

That's a pretty strange eye test you've got there when it says the losing player is better than the player beating him. (referring to RG2011 and Cincy2015). And that wasn't even peak Fed. Even if you say peak Fed is not 2006 but 2017, then this Fed is still clearly a lot better than he was in 2011 or 2015.

 

[metsman]

So basically the time period where he had to compete mainly with Roddicks, Hewitts and Baghdatis. In between Dubai 2006 and Miami 2004 was off clay. Isn't it?

Miami 2004 lol....Nadal's 08 clay isn't that good because he got schooled by broken down Ferrero LOL.

 

[Shank Volley]

That's a pretty strange eye test you've got there when it says the losing player is better than the player beating him. (referring to RG2011 and Cincy2015). And that wasn't even peak Fed. Even if you say peak Fed is not 2006 but 2017, then this Fed is still clearly a lot better than he was in 2011 or 2015.

I think his eye test also tells him that Federer is better at 35 than he was in his mid 20s. I mean, that's just what I'm gathering.

 

[masao]

Federer VS BIG 4 in 2006
2-4 Nadal
o-1 Murray
2-0 Djokovic
Total 4-5


Djokovic VS BIG 4 in 2011
6-0 Nadal
4-1 Federer
2-1Murray(ret)
Total 12-2

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

Federer VS BIG 4 in 2006
2-4 Nadal
o-1 Murray
2-0 Djokovic
Total 4-5


Djokovic VS BIG 4 in 2011
6-0 Nadal
4-1 Federer
2-1Murray(ret)
Total 12-2

No such thing as the Big 4 in 2006..nothing like it was 5 yrs later. Which is a credit to Djokovic above all else but also not really comparable.

I think his eye test also tells him that Federer is better at 35 than he was in his mid 20s. I mean, that's just what I'm gathering.

Speaks to how remarkable Federer is that he can dupe people into thinking that.

 

[KINGROGER]

Djokovic was fortunate that Tsonga took out Fed for him at Wimbledon that year. He had his number everywhere but the AO and the USO was a choke, with some bad luck (net chord/return winner)

Overall, I’d only take Djokovic at AO (plexicushion), Miami and Rome (for consistency) with IW and WTF London being a 50/50.

I’d favour Federer everywhere else. Djokovic simply has no answer for that FH weapon on most surfaces.

 

[KINGROGER]

Federer VS BIG 4 in 2006
2-4 Nadal
o-1 Murray
2-0 Djokovic
Total 4-5


Djokovic VS BIG 4 in 2011
6-0 Nadal
4-1 Federer
2-1Murray(ret)
Total 12-2

Well firstly 9 matches vs 14 so not a fair sample size.

Secondly, Nadal was better on clay in 06 than 11.

Lastly there was no “big 4” in 2006. This is just a useless cherry picking stat that shows nothing.

 

[ForumMember]

Djokovic was fortunate that Tsonga took out Fed for him at Wimbledon that year. He had his number everywhere but the AO and the USO was a choke, with some bad luck (net chord/return winner)

Overall, I’d only take Djokovic at AO (plexicushion), Miami and Rome (for consistency) with IW and WTF London being a 50/50.

I’d favour Federer everywhere else. Djokovic simply has no answer for that FH weapon on most surfaces.

So you are saying that forget about PEAK ZENITH Federer, even Federer of 2011 was better than Djokovic of 2011?

 

[mike danny]

Peak Federer and 2008 don't go together, sorry.

Yeah. Fed had a losing against the top 10 in 2008, but the haters will fail to aknowledge this.

 

[KINGROGER]

So you are saying that forget about PEAK ZENITH Federer, even Federer of 2011 was better than Djokovic of 2011?

At RG and USO yes (Djokovic won the latter but I believe Federer’s level was higher, fine margins)

At Wimbledon I’d favour Roger based on the 2012 match.

Overall there’s not much in their top level that year. Obviously Nole was more consistent for 9 months and way better at masters events.

 

[mike danny]

Of course people will say peak Djokovic is better due to recency bias. Since peak Fed and peak Nole never played against each otger and since peak Djokovic was the most recent one, obviously people will say Djokovic is better at his peak.

I say that we have no proof who is better.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

The gap between 2011 Djokovic and everyone else in 2011 is big, and that includes Federer, sorry to tell you that mate.

 

[Jonas78]

Peak Federer was repeatedly destroyed by a teenager. Can you imagine any teenager doing that to Djokovic 2011 or Djokovic 2015?
Barely 20 Djokovic destroyed Peak Federer in three staight sets in AO SF 2008. Can you imagine how bad humiliation Federer would have suffered if Federer had played peak Djokovic in 2008 SF? It's not very difficult to look peak when all you have to out do a Roddick to become no 1.

Too bad Roddick won the H2H vs Nole then...

 

[ForumMember]

At RG and USO yes (Djokovic won the latter but I believe Federer’s level was higher, fine margins)

At Wimbledon I’d favour Roger based on the 2012 match.

Overall there’s not much in their top level that year. Obviously Nole was more consistent for 9 months and way better at masters events.

Sounds legit. Djokovic who won 3 GS, reached to the Semi of 4th. won 10 tournaments in the year, raked up more than 13000+ points was just as good as Federer who won 0 GS, won merely 4 tournaments with just one masters, was probably more than 4000 points behind. So I get it all these stats notwithstanding Fed 2011 = Djokovic 2011. I fully agree with you.