Remembering the grass monster Federer was

[Raining hopes]

Inspired by @Meles
For his supposed peak on the surface 2003 jan -2007 Aug. I am using the second best Wimbledon player Djokovic of the century(2015) as Reference for putting Federer's stats in perspective . Do observe that Federer's stats are over a period of 4 years and hence they should be lower in %age due to much higher no. of matches and I am using only the best year of Djokovic on Grass.
But that isn't the case.

The guy was 54-0 (100%)
With DR of 1.48 (Djokovic 2015 had 1.40)

TPW% was 55.9 and peak grass return/serve Djokovic had 55.0

Similarly Federer's RPW was above 40% while best grass 2015 returnovic had 38.4%.


Fred 's BRK% was 29.6 while Djokovic 2015 was at 24.



Let this sink in : Over the course of 54 matches Federer on Grass had better stats even after the much greater number of pts played/games played than the 7 best matches of the second best Grass player of 2000s.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

And then came Nadal...and after him came Djokovic...tbh Federer was quite lucky during that 2003-2007 time span not having to deal with post-2010 Djokovic, otherwise at least one of his 2003-2007 period titles would be in danger! (Not saying all of them though as he was dominant enough to keep racking 'em up, which is proved by his two consecutive victories in the decider against his biggest nemesis ever!)

 

[Milehigh5280]

 

[Djokodalerer31]

This is what Novak reminds me of each time, when he wins the Wimbledon...

 

[tennis_pro]

I remember the good old times

 

[Djokodalerer31]

I remember the good old times

Comparing Stuttgart to the Wimbledon?! Really??!...not sure if serious or...

 

[Raining hopes]

And then came Nadal...and after him came Djokovic...tbh Federer was quite lucky during that 2003-2007 time span not having to deal with post-2010 Djokovic, otherwise at least one of his 2003-2007 period titles would be in danger! (Not saying all of them though as he was dominant enough to keep racking 'em up, which is proved by his two consecutive victories in the decider against his biggest nemesis ever!)

And Yes the Tour figured Djokovic in mid 2016 and 2017 so even at his peak he was losing to people like Taro Daniels.
So nice of Kyrgios and Chung to let Djokovic win slams, it is a known fact that in 2017 they exceeded the HC level of Nole by a mile.


Not to put too much mud on Djokovic, he himself had exceeded peakest of peak HCDAL,GRASSDAL,CLAYDAL in 2011 whipping him around throughout the Tour.

See I can play this game too.



And on topic, do tell me apart from Federer in final which Giant did Nole face at Wimbledon 2015 from where his stats are taken? And do logically prove that somehow having Federer in final who he actually dominated make up for the disparity in stats despite 47 match difference?

Advice: Be a tad bit more subtle in trolling, it actually works better

 

[Djokodalerer31]

And Yes the Tour figured Djokovic in mid 2016 and 2017 so even at his peak he was losing to Taro Daniels. So nice of Kyrgios to let Djokovic win slams, it is a known Facts that in 2017 he exceeded the HC level of Nole by a mile.


Not to put too much mud on Djokovic, he himself had exceeded peakest of peak HCDAL,GRASSDAL,CLAYDAL in 2011 whipping him around throughout the Tour.


Advice: be a tad bit more single in trolling, it actually works better

Wth are you talking about?! Djokovic was at his peak in mid-2016 till mid-2017?! Are you out of your mind?! Or it was sarcasm?! Lol Anyway too bad tour couldn't figure him out at these two last grand slam tournaments of the year! Lol

 

[Meles]

Inspired by @Meles
For his supposed peak on the surface 2003 jan -2007 Aug. I am using the second best Wimbledon player Djokovic of the century(2015) as Reference for putting Federer's stats in perspective . Do observe that Federer's stats are over a period of 4 years and hence they should be lower in %age due to much higher no. of matches and I am using only the best year of Djokovic on Grass.
But that isn't the case.

The guy was 54-0 (100%)
With DR of 1.48 (Djokovic 2015 had 1.40)

TPW% was 55.9 and peak grass return/serve Djokovic had 55.0

Similarly Federer's RPW was above 40% while best grass 2015 returnovic had 38.4%.


Fred 's BRK% was 29.6 while Djokovic 2015 was at 24.



Let this sink in : Over the course of 54 matches Federer on Grass had better stats even after the much greater number of pts played/games played than the 7 best matches of the second best Grass player of 2000s.

You are welcome to do this. I don't really do grass stats because the season and number of matches is so short. Maybe a rolling average or three best years is a fine comparison. I've not really investigated so have at it.

 

[Raining hopes]

You are welcome to do this. I don't really do grass stats because the season and number of matches is so short. Maybe a rolling average or three best years is a fine comparison. I've not really investigated so have at it.

Actually I was going for 3 year averages for Djokovic too, but his stats actually drop as the 2015 is his best stastical year on the surface.So infact I am comparing best possible stats of Djokovic in any period against 4 years of Fraudery.

 

[KINGROGER]

And then came Nadal...and after him came Djokovic...tbh Federer was quite lucky during that 2003-2007 time span not having to deal with post-2010 Djokovic, otherwise at least one of his 2003-2007 period titles would be in danger! (Not saying all of them though as he was dominant enough to keep racking 'em up, which is proved by his two consecutive victories in the decider against his biggest nemesis ever!)

I think Federer proved in their 2012 match how they match up on grass. He was still playing a similar style as his prime and easily won in 4 sets.

2014/2015 Fed was a completely different style of player with a weak return and a non existent FH, serve reliant too so doesn’t tell us too much.

 

[vex]

Inspired by @Meles
For his supposed peak on the surface 2003 jan -2007 Aug. I am using the second best Wimbledon player Djokovic of the century(2015) as Reference for putting Federer's stats in perspective . Do observe that Federer's stats are over a period of 4 years and hence they should be lower in %age due to much higher no. of matches and I am using only the best year of Djokovic on Grass.
But that isn't the case.

The guy was 54-0 (100%)
With DR of 1.48 (Djokovic 2015 had 1.40)

TPW% was 55.9 and peak grass return/serve Djokovic had 55.0

Similarly Federer's RPW was above 40% while best grass 2015 returnovic had 38.4%.


Fred 's BRK% was 29.6 while Djokovic 2015 was at 24.



Let this sink in : Over the course of 54 matches Federer on Grass had better stats even after the much greater number of pts played/games played than the 7 best matches of the second best Grass player of 2000s.

Love the post. Actually interesting and unique perspective with good stat evidence. Well done.

I wonder about the DJoker sample size - in '15 Anderson took him to 5 sets with absurd serving - perhaps wrecking his RPW%. In comparison were all of Fed's 54 matches from years he won all 7 matches (ie facing "strong" opponents late?) Perhaps that accounts for some differences? Still, I think ur comparison is solid, Fed is pretty amazing on grass

 

[Meles]

Love the post. Actually interesting and unique perspective with good stat evidence. Well done.

I wonder about the DJoker sample size - in '15 Anderson took him to 5 sets with absurd serving - perhaps wrecking his RPW%. In comparison were all of Fed's 54 matches from years he won all 7 matches (ie facing "strong" opponents late?) Perhaps that accounts for some differences? Still, I think ur comparison is solid, Fed is pretty amazing on grass

The usual fight is who is 2nd best, Murray, Nadal, or Djoko?

 

[vex]

The usual fight is who is 2nd best, Murray, Nadal, or Djoko?

Prob Murray

 

[Mainad]

The usual fight is who is 2nd best, Murray, Nadal, or Djoko?

Guess that means how you are defining 'best'? In terms of grasscourt titles won, Djokovic is currently 3rd this century with 5 grasscourt titles after Federer (18) and Murray (8).

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

RIP in peace

 

[Milehigh5280]

RIP in peace

Rest in peace in peace?

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Rest in peace in peace?

Yes

 

[ABCD]

Inspired by @Meles
For his supposed peak on the surface 2003 jan -2007 Aug. I am using the second best Wimbledon player Djokovic of the century(2015) as Reference for putting Federer's stats in perspective . Do observe that Federer's stats are over a period of 4 years and hence they should be lower in %age due to much higher no. of matches and I am using only the best year of Djokovic on Grass.
But that isn't the case.

The guy was 54-0 (100%)
With DR of 1.48 (Djokovic 2015 had 1.40)

TPW% was 55.9 and peak grass return/serve Djokovic had 55.0

Similarly Federer's RPW was above 40% while best grass 2015 returnovic had 38.4%.


Fred 's BRK% was 29.6 while Djokovic 2015 was at 24.



Let this sink in : Over the course of 54 matches Federer on Grass had better stats even after the much greater number of pts played/games played than the 7 best matches of the second best Grass player of 2000s.

True. He destroyed his competition. Zygote Nadal:

And Sperm Djokovic:

 

[tennisfan2015]

And Sperm Djokovic:

Who's that with him? Suresh?

 

[ABCD]

Inspired by @Meles
For his supposed peak on the surface 2003 jan -2007 Aug. I am using the second best Wimbledon player Djokovic of the century(2015) as Reference for putting Federer's stats in perspective . Do observe that Federer's stats are over a period of 4 years and hence they should be lower in %age due to much higher no. of matches and I am using only the best year of Djokovic on Grass.
But that isn't the case.

The guy was 54-0 (100%)
With DR of 1.48 (Djokovic 2015 had 1.40)

TPW% was 55.9 and peak grass return/serve Djokovic had 55.0

Similarly Federer's RPW was above 40% while best grass 2015 returnovic had 38.4%.


Fred 's BRK% was 29.6 while Djokovic 2015 was at 24.



Let this sink in : Over the course of 54 matches Federer on Grass had better stats even after the much greater number of pts played/games played than the 7 best matches of the second best Grass player of 2000s.

Sorry, I forgot Blastocyst Murray

 

[tennisfan2015]

Prob Murray

Nah, he plays doubles.

 

[tennisfan2015]

Sorry, I forgot Blastocyst Murray

According to his coach Murray had no social life. I guess that took a huge toll onto his behaviour

 

[Raining hopes]

Sorry, I forgot Blastocyst Murray

Thank you I had never watched it. He is so young!

 

[nolefam_2024]

 

[nolefam_2024]

2017 Wimbledon was a travesty. So was 03-07.

Fed racks up awesome DR vs small opponents.

 

[Standaa]

Fedr

 

[tennisaddict]

Good thread , but I thought it goes without saying someone with 4 Wimb titles is not in the same zone as one who has 8 .

 

[nolefam_2024]

13 BP created by 6 people - 15 by Djokovic alone in 2014
4 BP created by 6 people - 10 by Djokovic alone in 2015

Let's face it. Djokovic is not Hewitt or Roddick to roll over Federer.

 

[KINGROGER]

2017 Wimbledon was a travesty. So was 03-07.

Fed racks up awesome DR vs small opponents.

Djokovic should be thankful he isn’t the same age as Fed otherwise he’d have 0-1 Wimbledon instead of 4. We saw how he fares against a top playing Fed in 2012.

 

[Ann]

 

[Russeljones]

Guess that means how you are defining 'best'? In terms of grasscourt titles won, Djokovic is currently 3rd this century with 5 grasscourt titles after Federer (18) and Murray (8).

I will never get tired of saying Queens titles should be indexed to 1/2 SW19 worth. Real grass.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Djokovic is 2-0 in the Wimbledon finals against Fed. That should tell you everything you need to know about who is the better grass player.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Djokovic is 2-0 in the Wimbledon finals against Fed. That should tell you everything you need to know about who is the better grass player.

Djokovic hasn't won a set against Murray on grass

 

[Shank Volley]

And then came Nadal...and after him came Djokovic...tbh Federer was quite lucky during that 2003-2007 time span not having to deal with post-2010 Djokovic, otherwise at least one of his 2003-2007 period titles would be in danger! (Not saying all of them though as he was dominant enough to keep racking 'em up, which is proved by his two consecutive victories in the decider against his biggest nemesis ever!)

Just in case the forum wasn't already sure you post braindead garbage. Pathetic.

 

[Shank Volley]

I think Federer proved in their 2012 match how they match up on grass. He was still playing a similar style as his prime and easily won in 4 sets.

2014/2015 Fed was a completely different style of player with a weak return and a non existent FH, serve reliant too so doesn’t tell us too much.

Don't waste your breath on that guy, he couldn't be less balanced in his opinions if he tried.

 

[Raining hopes]

Okay I Should have put in O.P


NO ONE IS SAYING FEDERER> NOLE OR NOLE > FEDERER.

Just that Federer's stats and his grass level was awesome and I just used second most prolific Wimbledon player of the era to just underline that.

When two people play a real match against each other all stats go down the drain.

This was about Federer and Grass not Federer vs Djokovic.

 

[tennisaddict]

13 BP created by 6 people - 15 by Djokovic alone in 2014
4 BP created by 6 people - 10 by Djokovic alone in 2015

Let's face it. Djokovic is not Hewitt or Roddick to roll over Federer.

I think what OP is saying is Djokovic is not Federer

 

[NatF]

13 BP created by 6 people - 15 by Djokovic alone in 2014
4 BP created by 6 people - 10 by Djokovic alone in 2015

Let's face it. Djokovic is not Hewitt or Roddick to roll over Federer.

In 2004 Roddick created 14 BP chances, and Hewitt 11...

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

13 BP created by 6 people - 15 by Djokovic alone in 2014
4 BP created by 6 people - 10 by Djokovic alone in 2015

Let's face it. Djokovic is not Hewitt or Roddick to roll over Federer.

You compared Djokovic to Fed's other opponents that same year (in one metric). Why does that say anything about Hewitt or Roddick from, say, 03-05? All it could possibly say is that Djokovic was noticeably the most difficult opponent those years. Stop the press.

 

[nolefam_2024]

In 2004 Roddick created 14 BP chances, and Hewitt 11...

They are Fed's bunnies. Couldn't convert much.

Just like tour minus Djokovic is. Cant even stop oldman. Pathetic.

 

[nolefam_2024]

You compared Djokovic to Fed's other opponents that same year (in one metric). Why does that say anything about Hewitt or Roddick from, say, 03-05? All it could possibly say is that Djokovic was noticeably the most difficult opponent those years. Stop the press.

Because they couldn't stop fed even once in Wimbledon. Very poor.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Great player in his day.

 

[NatF]

They are Fed's bunnies. Couldn't convert much.

Just like tour minus Djokovic is. Cant even stop oldman. Pathetic.

They'd probably convert more against 2014-2015 Federer...

 

[nolefam_2024]

They'd probably convert more against 2014-2015 Federer...

Probably or probably not.

All i see is its Federer. Same guy, same as 2003,2004 bullying everyone on grass.

Last year there was no Djokovic and he didn't even lose a set. He didn't do it even in his prime so who am I to question his ability.

 

[NatF]

Probably or probably not.

All i see is its Federer. Same guy, same as 2003,2004 bullying everyone on grass.

Last year there was no Djokovic and he didn't even lose a set. He didn't do it even in his prime so who am I to question his ability.

Same guy for a full 12-14 years?

Whatever you say man.

 

[abmk]

Probably or probably not.

All i see is its Federer. Same guy, same as 2003,2004 bullying everyone on grass.

Last year there was no Djokovic and he didn't even lose a set. He didn't do it even in his prime so who am I to question his ability.

2003-04 fed to be the same as 14-15 fed !?
just quit with the BS, will ya ?

oh and Roddick did break Federer 4 times in the 2004 final....but since you are focussed on your agenda., things like that fly right past you.

 

[metsman]

why is 08 Ned brushed aside as 2nd best grass court player of the century besides recency bias.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Because they couldn't stop fed even once in Wimbledon. Very poor.

They couldn't stop Fed, the grass goat, in his peak years. Absolute mugs.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Same guy for a full 12-14 years?

Whatever you say man.

Yeah, it's not as if Fed's 2003 SF and F are regarded as some of his very best grass performances or anything. ARod and FullOfPoossis were just mugs. It's the slower Fed with no forehand that stands atop the peakiest of mountain peaks.