Shaped Polys and notching

[Jjk1107]

Hello,

I have started to test out a lot of full-bed shaped polys in my Head Extreme Pro 2.0 but I am starting to notice that they notch pretty badly to the point where the strings don't even move. I'd figure it is due to the increased friction from the edges of the strings.

Is there a way or a "know-how" to sort of mitigate/delay this notching? Maybe hybrid up a shaped poly main with very slick poly cross? Maybe Loosen Tension on the crosses to make the mains move more on the full-bed or loosen tension overall?

I tried out Kirch Black Shark 17 and Cyclone 17 at #57/55 (which I admit...is a bit tight) and noticed some bad notching after 10+ hrs more-or-less. Any solutions or thoughts?

 

[SFrazeur]

As the strings have edges they notch faster. Keep in mind that with full poly you will not see a string out of place in the beginning. That's not because they haven't moved but because poly strings move and snap back into position. The snapping back on the ball is what gives the extra spin.

Multi/nylons will snap back some, but not always back to the same spot even when strung fresh.

 

[SpinToWin]

As the strings have edges they notch faster. Keep in mind that with full poly you will not see a string out of place in the beginning. That's not because they haven't moved but because poly strings move and snap back into position. The snapping back on the ball is what gives the extra spin.

Multi/nylons will snap back some, but not always back to the same spot even when strung fresh.

exactly, when polys don't move at the beginning, it's because they slide on each other and move back to their starting position after impact. For example, of all strings tested by TWU, Spiky Shark slides on itself the best/produces the least friction/best snapback (as long as it isn't notched).
Notching is an inevitable part of using shaped polys. As a result, their playability duration is shorter than most, so that durability is not an issue (you cut out the strings before they snap usually). There really isn't much you can do about it...
At most you can put a much softer poly in the mains so that only the mains notch, so that the main strings can still slide along the cross strings creating the snapback for spin. But this is me just stating pure theory, I have no idea whether that would work in reality.

 

[mikeler]

Hello,

I have started to test out a lot of full-bed shaped polys in my Head Extreme Pro 2.0 but I am starting to notice that they notch pretty badly to the point where the strings don't even move. I'd figure it is due to the increased friction from the edges of the strings.

Is there a way or a "know-how" to sort of mitigate/delay this notching? Maybe hybrid up a shaped poly main with very slick poly cross? Maybe Loosen Tension on the crosses to make the mains move more on the full-bed or loosen tension overall?

I tried out Kirch Black Shark 17 and Cyclone 17 at #57/55 (which I admit...is a bit tight) and noticed some bad notching after 10+ hrs more-or-less. Any solutions or thoughts?

Use a smooth poly in the cross and keep the shaped one in the mains.

 

[LeeD]

Full bed of STBite16 at 47 lbs on a 16x19 soft racktet not only doesn't notch at all, but it always goes back to original position, even after 80 hours of play.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

Full bed of STBite16 at 47 lbs on a 16x19 soft racktet not only doesn't notch at all, but it always goes back to original position, even after 80 hours of play.

The racket will disintegrate even before the strings start to notch. :shock:

 

[LeeD]

I have 2 4DAero300's with STBite16 at 47.
One is my main racket, with a slight rattle inside the head, now going on 8 months or around 80 hours. It's gotten 3 grips and 3 overgrips on it.
The other is a 3 hour old racket, original grip still somewhat white, my test against racket.
Both play the same, and if anything, the 80 hour racket is slightly tighter than the 3 hour racket.

 

[SFrazeur]

Full bed of STBite16 at 47 lbs on a 16x19 soft racktet not only doesn't notch at all, but it always goes back to original position, even after 80 hours of play.

You are not hitting hard enough or with enough spin to notch them then.

I have 2 4DAero300's with STBite16 at 47.
One is my main racket, with a slight rattle inside the head, now going on 8 months or around 80 hours. It's gotten 3 grips and 3 overgrips on it.
The other is a 3 hour old racket, original grip still somewhat white, my test against racket.
Both play the same, and if anything, the 80 hour racket is slightly tighter than the 3 hour racket.

The strings are not not tighter tension wise but stiffer due to losing their elasticity.

 

[LeeD]

I hit harder than most any 4.0 who can keep 4 shots IN on each point. No 4.0 serves harder.
You haven't tried STBite16 at 47 lbs. on a soft flexing 16x19 racket. I have two other buds, both newbie 4.0's, who are using this string upon my reco, and both can't believe it lasts as long, or plays as well, as it does, compared to their multiple other racket's with different strings.
Can be "losing elasticity", but I bring both racket's to the courts, and both feel close enough to each other.

 

[SFrazeur]

I hit harder than most any 4.0 who can keep 4 shots IN on each point. No 4.0 serves harder.
You haven't tried STBite16 at 47 lbs. on a soft flexing 16x19 racket. I have two other buds, both newbie 4.0's, who are using this string upon my reco, and both can't believe it lasts as long, or plays as well, as it does, compared to their multiple other racket's with different strings.

I have used Tour Bite 16 in Pure Drives at 50 lbs. How stiff or flexible a racquet is (assuming it's nothing crazy) plays no part in the longevity of string. And as I said you are either not hitting hard enough OR with enough spin to notch it.

Can be "losing elasticity", but I bring both racket's to the courts, and both feel close enough to each other.

Feel is completely subjective.

 

[LeeD]

So, you know very little about strings and rackets, I see.
I guess I should just ignore your silly remarks, because you know so little.

Soft rackets with lots of strings (tight stringbed) affect the longevity and play of the strings IMMENSELY.
Stiff racket's, your PDR's, take a huge toll on the strings.
Sorry, you didn't know.

 

[SFrazeur]

So, you know very little about strings and rackets, I see.
I guess I should just ignore your silly remarks, because you know so little.

Soft rackets with lots of strings (tight stringbed) affect the longevity and play of the strings IMMENSELY.
Stiff racket's, your PDR's, take a huge toll on the strings.
Sorry, you didn't know.

I'm not talking about playability as that is far too subjective. If you have proof that racquet stiffness effects string longevity (tension maintenance, durabilty) I would love to see it. If I see evidence to support my claim I will post it as well. String patterns, string spacing do effect longevity. I've played with stiff and soft racquets with open string patterns and spacings and found the go through string just as fast.

 

[Doubles]

LeeD's trolling at its finest, I see.

 

[SFrazeur]

LeeD's trolling at its finest, I see.

I think he's insulted I wrote he doesn't hit hard enough or with enough topspin.

 

[Doubles]

I think he's insulted I wrote he doesn't hit hard enough or with enough topspin.

I think he's just delusional.

 

[SFrazeur]

It is April Fools day so I will humour him.

So LeeD, why do stiffer racquets break string faster than more flexible racquets? Do you claim that if you took two identical racquets one with a stiffness of 55 and one with 65 that the 65RA racquet will break strings faster? "Pwn" me LeeD.

 

[SFrazeur]

I think he's just delusional.

It's not nice to be potentially so truthful .

 

[LeeD]

Incredible, TWO guys, SFraz and Doubles, don't know physics whatsoever!
OK, I apologize for my condescending attitude if you will....
Weak link is what breaks. Strings are the weak link, after our arms.
Stiff racket, the stress is all on the strings.
Soft racket, the racket BENDS and absorbs some of the stress.
Simple for simpletons. I'm a simpleton.
Like, YOUR and my legs. Put ultra titanium braces on the shins, our knees and our ankles will break.
Easy?

 

[mikeler]

I think he's just delusional.

That is what the D stands for in his username. No way a hard hitting 4.0 could go 80 hours with a poly.

 

[SFrazeur]

Incredible, TWO guys, SFraz and Doubles, don't know physics whatsoever!
OK, I apologize for my condescending attitude if you will....
Weak link is what breaks. Strings are the weak link, after our arms.
Stiff racket, the stress is all on the strings.
Soft racket, the racket BENDS and absorbs some of the stress.
Simple for simpletons. I'm a simpleton.
Like, YOUR and my legs. Put ultra titanium braces on the shins, our knees and our ankles will break.
Easy?

If I recall correctly studies have shown string deformation occurs faster than a racquet can or cannot. As such the racquet's deformation or lack of deformation will not have an effect.

 

[LeeD]

Yup, around 80 hours, for sure more than 60.
But, have YOU tried SolincoTourBite16 at lower tensions? NO? Well, then?
When I got my two rackets with STB, both 4DAero300's, both were very close to the same tension, I specified 47.
One has less than 3 hours of play, the other used thru 3 full grip changes, and 3 OG changes. The older one sounds stiffer when hand pinging, or bouncing a ball off it. Play on the courts is about the same.
Last week, I brought both out, just to see again. Warmed up with the oldster, maybe 20 minutes of hitting. Used the 3 hour old one for 5 minutes, or around 20 shots, then went back to oldster.
Same feel to me, same power, same spin, same softness and ease on arm.
As usual, ended up playing a couple of sets with the old one. Why not?

 

[LeeD]

Oh, doesn't take a genius to figure out a PD would kill strings faster than a MGRad.
Oh, you're not a genius either?

 

[Doubles]

Oh, doesn't take a genius to figure out a PD would kill strings faster than a MGRad.
Oh, you're not a genius either?

Your comparison is flawed as the Radical is an 18x20 which helps increase string life.

Furthermore, I've played 16 gauge TB, and it's broken between 12-15 hours in the center of the bed. Not a shank. This is ranging in tension from 45-55. Do you really want to keep this up? Why can't you accept the fact that if, in fact, you're getting 80 hours out of a string then you shouldn't be using it.

 

[LeeD]

Your experience with STBite 16 is ONE.
My experience with STBite16 is ONE.
Which one of us is correct? Both, of course.
I also have two other 4.0 buds who use STB on my recommendation, both 25+ years younger, both considered hard hitters for 4.0 levels, and both using the STBite strings for over 20 hours, possibly Scotty over 35 hours, and both haven't started using their spare identically strung rackets yet.
STBite 16, not L.

 

[SFrazeur]

Oh, doesn't take a genius to figure out a PD would kill strings faster than a MGRad.
Oh, you're not a genius either?

Of course it would. The PD is 16x19 while the MG Radical is 18x20.

 

[LeeD]

Did I mention my Aero300's are 16x19?

 

[SFrazeur]

Did I mention my Aero300's are 16x19?

Yes. Did I mention you may not hit hard enough or with enough spin?

 

[LeeD]

Yes, you did. I may not hit hard enough nor with enough spin, noted.

 

[SFrazeur]

Yes, you did. I may not hit hard enough nor with enough spin, noted.

Groovy. .

 

[Doubles]

Your experience with STBite 16 is ONE.
My experience with STBite16 is ONE.
Which one of us is correct? Both, of course.
I also have two other 4.0 buds who use STB on my recommendation, both 25+ years younger, both considered hard hitters for 4.0 levels, and both using the STBite strings for over 20 hours, possibly Scotty over 35 hours, and both haven't started using their spare identically strung rackets yet.
STBite 16, not L.

Hard hitters for your 4.0 level? Could they possibly be glorified 3.5's? Have you seen "high level" 4.0's? Or just the guys that call themselves 4.0 that hit for kicks and giggles on the weekends?

 

[Rjtennis]

Hard hitters for your 4.0 level? Could they possibly be glorified 3.5's? Have you seen "high level" 4.0's? Or just the guys that call themselves 4.0 that hit for kicks and giggles on the weekends?

If Tour Bite 16 lasts 80 hours for somebody so would any syn gut. String durability must not be a concern... TB has some sharp edges and a player who uses heavy spin can notch and break it fairly quickly.

I'm struggling to understanding how racket stiffness effects durability, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[LeeD]

Sometimes, you gotta think, instead of finding an article about it....
THINK... stiff racket is shocking to your body, arms, elbows shoulders.
What do you think happens to the strings?
THINK, soft rackets are easy on shoulders, arms, body.
What do you think happens to the strings.
I never said I hit with "heavy spin". NOPE. I hit very hard, with moderate spin.
The two other guys are USTA LEAGUE 4.0, not tournament 4.0's.

 

[SFrazeur]

Sometimes, you gotta think, instead of finding an article about it....
THINK... stiff racket is shocking to your body, arms, elbows shoulders.
What do you think happens to the strings?
THINK, soft rackets are easy on shoulders, arms, body.
What do you think happens to the strings.
I never said I hit with "heavy spin". NOPE. I hit very hard, with moderate spin. The two other guys are USTA LEAGUE 4.0, not tournament 4.0's.

The point of finding an article is to find where someone has already done research and has evidence to support a claim. You do not seem interested in the truth as much as sticking by what you already think is true.

 

[SFrazeur]

Sometimes, you gotta think, instead of finding an article about it....
THINK... stiff racket is shocking to your body, arms, elbows shoulders.
What do you think happens to the strings?
THINK, soft rackets are easy on shoulders, arms, body.
What do you think happens to the strings.
I never said I hit with "heavy spin". NOPE. I hit very hard, with moderate spin.
The two other guys are USTA LEAGUE 4.0, not tournament 4.0's.

Okay. Let's think about it. . .

Strings notch from friction with each other. The greater the friction the lesser the durability. Does a racquet's stiffness have any bearing on the amount of friction created by strings crossing against each other while in contact with the ball? Not that I can think of.

So LeeD, how is a stiffer frame causing more friction to the string?

 

[Bhairava]

I believe that tb 16 still snap back after 60 hours. The point is, you still get far better spin and pace in the first 10 hours
But I've tested tb 16L at 55lbs on a powerful, stiff racquet(head extreme pro 2.0) 16x19 that needed a low powered string to tame its power. TB 16L performed like a charm. It played wonderful for 10-15 hours and good for other 15hours. At 30th hour the pace was lesser, the spin was lesser, the control was a bit lesser than in the first hours, so I decided to cut it off. But at 30 hours the strings still didn't move from position!
Tour bite is a very stiff string, with exceptional snap back and tension stability. That's the key. It keeps tension for a lot,lot of time. So I could imagine that if TB 16L keeps well 55lbs, TB 16 keeps VERY well 47lbs.
The only problem is that TB 16 is really low, low powered. It is good on open pattern with high swingweight(330), in order to tame its power, not for 16x19 closer pattern o low swingweight/low power.
Post Scriptum: TB keeps very well tension also because it's gauge measurement is a bit off. TB 16L, officially sold as 1.25mm string, it is in fact 1.28-1.29mm. TB 16 is 1.34mm. That is why is so stiff, is so low powered, and retain tension so well

 

[LeeD]

SFraz...
Stiffer rackets impart more energy to the ball.
The strings are located between racket and ball, so it takes the brunt of the energy.

 

[JT_2eighty]

I'll Try to get back on track here...

Is there a way or a "know-how" to sort of mitigate/delay this notching? Maybe hybrid up a shaped poly main with very slick poly cross? Maybe Loosen Tension on the crosses to make the mains move more on the full-bed or loosen tension overall?

I tried out Kirch Black Shark 17 and Cyclone 17 at #57/55 (which I admit...is a bit tight) and noticed some bad notching after 10+ hrs more-or-less. Any solutions or thoughts?

I would agree to use a slick poly cross. It's what I do and the strings get better longevity due to reduced friction on the smooth crosses.

I've also noticed tighter crosses (string my crosses +1 or 2 lbs over mains) help keep my mains in place longer, and they notch slower. Sure, some will say I'm getting "less snapback" but the difference in spin is little to no difference. I actually think it's a more 'efficient' snapback with tighter crosses. Plus, I find my control and string longevity are slightly improved, and all the talk of snapback makes us sometimes forget the majority of spin is technique generated.

That said, most polys you don't want to use more than 10-20 hours anyway. As far as lowering your tension overall, I find lower tensions notch even faster because string movement is vastly increased with low tensions the strings really slide back and forth much easier.

Honestly, if you like your setup, keep the tension the same, and try a smooth cross.

 

[SFrazeur]

SFraz...
Stiffer rackets impart more energy to the ball.
The strings are located between racket and ball, so it takes the brunt of the energy.

Assuming the hit is within the sweet spot I would think the that the strings deform and return before the stiffness of the racquet can absorb or rebound anything.

 

[LeeD]

By what you are saying, the frame doesn't deflect before the ball leaves the strings, rebound.
By what you are saying, a stiffer racket has the same power as a softer racket, something not true.

 

[Doubles]

By what you are saying, the frame doesn't deflect before the ball leaves the strings, rebound.
By what you are saying, a stiffer racket has the same power as a softer racket, something not true.

If I were to hit with two racquets that were identical in weight, balance, sw, etc. With the only differences being that one has an ra of 55, and one of 65, I would be willing to bet that I won't break strings in either, on a clean break, in any significant difference in time. A half hour? One hour? Sure. But there's no way I could get more than 15 hours out of a 16 gauge poly string in any modern frame. Regardless of frame stiffness.

 

[LeeD]

You didn't bother to address the issue, stiffer racket can break strings faster than softer rackets.
I think anything that imparts more energy to the ball, and more shock to the arm, will also stress the strings more.
You also seem to lump all 16 gauge into ONE category, like they're the same.
I will admit, I'm old, injured, can't run, but do hit 100 mph serves and easily 4.5 level groundies.
80 hours, yes, since it was strung around May last year, my main racket.

 

[mikeler]

If I were to hit with two racquets that were identical in weight, balance, sw, etc. With the only differences being that one has an ra of 55, and one of 65, I would be willing to bet that I won't break strings in either, on a clean break, in any significant difference in time. A half hour? One hour? Sure. But there's no way I could get more than 15 hours out of a 16 gauge poly string in any modern frame. Regardless of frame stiffness.

I suspect you are correct.

You didn't bother to address the issue, stiffer racket can break strings faster than softer rackets.
I think anything that imparts more energy to the ball, and more shock to the arm, will also stress the strings more.
You also seem to lump all 16 gauge into ONE category, like they're the same.
I will admit, I'm old, injured, can't run, but do hit 100 mph serves and easily 4.5 level groundies.
80 hours, yes, since it was strung around May last year, my main racket.

100 kph.

 

[Doubles]

You didn't bother to address the issue, stiffer racket can break strings faster than softer rackets.
I think anything that imparts more energy to the ball, and more shock to the arm, will also stress the strings more.
You also seem to lump all 16 gauge into ONE category, like they're the same.
I will admit, I'm old, injured, can't run, but do hit 100 mph serves and easily 4.5 level groundies.
80 hours, yes, since it was strung around May last year, my main racket.

4.5 groundies? 100 mph serves? I've seen the video, no way it's that fast. You also have varied your level so many times I can't take anything you say seriously. You've posted that you're a 4.0, 4.5, Open level player, well, which is it? Just leave the thread if you aren't able to actually contribute anything worthwhile to it.

 

[Doubles]

Hello,

I have started to test out a lot of full-bed shaped polys in my Head Extreme Pro 2.0 but I am starting to notice that they notch pretty badly to the point where the strings don't even move. I'd figure it is due to the increased friction from the edges of the strings.

Is there a way or a "know-how" to sort of mitigate/delay this notching? Maybe hybrid up a shaped poly main with very slick poly cross? Maybe Loosen Tension on the crosses to make the mains move more on the full-bed or loosen tension overall?

I tried out Kirch Black Shark 17 and Cyclone 17 at #57/55 (which I admit...is a bit tight) and noticed some bad notching after 10+ hrs more-or-less. Any solutions or thoughts?

Okay, so I know some of us have gotten off topic, but I'll give you my $.02 as I've tried a lot of poly strings. First off, I would suggest dropping your string tension. I hit with full poly at 53, you might not like that tension, but I don't personally think poly feels comfortable string tighter than 55.

Second, if you really like the shaped polys that you're hitting with, then I would suggest using a slick, round poly crosses to help the mains last longer.

 

[Micalzon]

Last season I found a shaped poly that felt really good and played excellent. I had it strung in a full bed as part of a playtest at 47lbs. After about 20 hours of play it finally began to notch a little, but nothing substantial. I felt I could mitigate the notching by putting in a smooth poly in the crosses so I put in some MSV Co Focus in at 48lbs and the shaped poly in the mains at 46lbs. I had significant notching in this set up only after about 8 hours. I think it's more dependent on the specific string rather than the characteristics (shaped vs. smooth) of the string. I've tried several hybrids over the last few months and believe the notching will occur more quickly and severly if you use two strings of different density/firmness and tensions. Just my $0.02.

 

[SpinToWin]

Last season I found a shaped poly that felt really good and played excellent. I had it strung in a full bed as part of a playtest at 47lbs. After about 20 hours of play it finally began to notch a little, but nothing substantial. I felt I could mitigate the notching by putting in a smooth poly in the crosses so I put in some MSV Co Focus in at 48lbs and the shaped poly in the mains at 46lbs. I had significant notching in this set up only after about 8 hours. I think it's more dependent on the specific string rather than the characteristics (shaped vs. smooth) of the string. I've tried several hybrids over the last few months and believe the notching will occur more quickly and severly if you use two strings of different density/firmness and tensions. Just my $0.02.

let me repeat: I believe it is the difference in how soft a string is. Ideally you'll want a stiffer string in the crosses (gut/poly is just that). By doing that, only the main strings will notch, which means that the main strings can still slide and snapback over the crosses through the creases created by notching. I've tried this recently and it seems to work as a charm in any setup. You cannot stop notching, so just use it to your benefit

 

[kaiser]

I experience the same with full bed shaped poly (BHBR16): only notching of the mains, not the crosses, but I play at very low tensions.

 

[Muppet]

You didn't bother to address the issue, stiffer racket can break strings faster than softer rackets.
I think anything that imparts more energy to the ball, and more shock to the arm, will also stress the strings more.
You also seem to lump all 16 gauge into ONE category, like they're the same.
I will admit, I'm old, injured, can't run, but do hit 100 mph serves and easily 4.5 level groundies.
80 hours, yes, since it was strung around May last year, my main racket.

While a softer flexing racquet won't be able to totally compensate for the stress of the ball's collision, the racquet will attempt to. And in doing so, it will take some of the strain off of the strings. As for the string's notching being the only cause of breakage, I believe the pull along the length of the strings adds to the occurrence of breakage. And a softer racquet will take some of that pull along the strings and absorb it in the flex of the frame.

 

[LeeD]

ha ha, I see a huge California/Florida rift...
All you guys from Florida seem to think a 100 mph serve is a huge deal.
And Doubles, are you from Florida also? READ THIS..... 33 years ago, I was playing A/Open tourneys, 13 to be exact in 2 years, and 2 Q's. I can still play 4.5 doubles today. I am a low 4.0 singles player today. 33 years ago again, I was bumped out of C's after losing in the finals of the GoldenGateParkC's, and next tourney, 2 months later, WON the then big draw OaklandCityOpen in the C or 3.5 division.
I passed on playing B's because of all the pushers/hookers, cheater weak hitters that play at that level in NorCal, and entered only A/Opens and the 2 Q's.
Doubles, in case you still can't comprehend, try reading it again.

 

[Doubles]

ha ha, I see a huge California/Florida rift...
All you guys from Florida seem to think a 100 mph serve is a huge deal.
And Doubles, are you from Florida also? READ THIS..... 33 years ago, I was playing A/Open tourneys, 13 to be exact in 2 years, and 2 Q's. I can still play 4.5 doubles today. I am a low 4.0 singles player today. 33 years ago again, I was bumped out of C's after losing in the finals of the GoldenGateParkC's, and next tourney, 2 months later, WON the then big draw OaklandCityOpen in the C or 3.5 division.
I passed on playing B's because of all the pushers/hookers, cheater weak hitters that play at that level in NorCal, and entered only A/Opens and the 2 Q's.
Doubles, in case you still can't comprehend, try reading it again.

I'm from Ohio, so neither California, nor Florida. A 100 mph serve is nothing special to me. Can I hit one consistently? No, but facing one isn't particularly frightening either. I've seen the video of your serve, and you might, might be cracking 80 on that, and that's a generous number. You don't hit the ball hard enough to notch your strings. This much is clear. So, why would you continue to argue that 16 gauge TB is the best string out there? Just because YOU can't break it when YOU don't hit hard enough to.

All you're going to do with this is give someone the wrong idea about the string and have them risk injuring themselves following your idiotic claims.