stringertom
Bionic Poster
Got through in the TB!
Félix did the one thing that is dangerous...he gave Pospisil hope in that second set when Vasek was still shaky. The underdog needed 40 plus points to hold six times yet Félix never saw a BP.
The Ascent To The Throne Begins For Felix Auger Aliassime
- Thread starter stringertom
- Start date
Félix did the one thing that is dangerous...he gave Pospisil hope in that second set when Vasek was still shaky. The underdog needed 40 plus points to hold six times yet Félix never saw a BP.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
No, he didn't give him hope, he did what he often does and that is he began playing poorly. Felix is still very young and has long stretches in matches where he plays very badly. This costs him matches. He does a lot of what Denis does, but he is more consistent than Denis ATM. However, he is totally serve-dependent, and when his serve goes his whole games with it. This is what happens when he plays better players. Although sometimes he makes it through, sometimes he doesn't.
Sparlingo
Hall of Fame
Quite good family planning before he was born to time his home tennis tournament for his birthday.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
Sadly, Raonic retired with back pain. As for Felix, this is the third time this year he's advanced in a tournament due to retirements or walk overs. I see his talent, and he is admirable, but he didn't earn this win.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
He can’t play fedr every match so there will be retirements or walkovers. It doesn’t diminish his record or reputation.
Just curious...did Shapo earn his 1R USO’18 win?
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
1 more win than he is the new Canadian #1
raph6
Semi-Pro
A win is always earned, even if it’s not your favorite player. Djokovic earned Wimbledon even if it still hurts me for example.
OutOfBounds
Rookie
And did Paire earn his championship in Lyon?
And what about the French Open, which Felix missed, not even earning the automatic 10 points given to everyone who participates, and having to count a zero towards his ranking because it's a mandatory tournament? How many rounds did he miss, so how many players didn't earn their win? When Felix isn't the one to withdraw, he's lucky, and when he is the one injured or ill, he's not unlucky, but rather it's just how the game goes?
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Avec freres fedr and CH Tseng!
OutOfBounds
Rookie
Especially given the 12 points he earned qualifying in Pune are in his non countable tournaments, and will remain buried there as long as he earns more than that in two tournaments in 2019 or participates in two of the three mandatory masters left, whatever the outcome in those.
If we want to go further back, Felix was injured in the final of the first Challenger he won, causing him to miss over two months including what would have been his first ATP tournament in Montreal in 2017. Then he missed the beginning of 2018 and wanted too badly to make up for it, leading to a disastrous first half of 2018. He may have had his breakthrough earlier otherwise. He has been set back by injuries way way more than whatever little benefit he could get through other people's injury. To call Felix lucky in that regard is a display of... I don't even know how to call it. It is an extreme bias, to say the least.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
You must have missed his choking today against KK. This is becoming a pattern where Felix loses his way from a winning position. He hit about 10 DF's today and blew the match from a set and break up in the second. His mental toughness is very suspect and this is not something he can just turn on at age 19. The only two great players in the past 20 years he went from mentally weak to strong were Agassi and Djokovic. It's difficult and not the norm to turn mental strength around.
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Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Early Djokovic mentally weak?
I wasn’t aware of that.
He just was the 3rd violin at the beginning of Fedal era. Not bad.
First slam at 20 years old (what I don’t see FAA accomplishing at 20), and #3 in the rankings at that age. You mean that if not mentally weak he would have beat Fedal since that age?
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Out of his element today in the elements. The match was the lowest quality M1K R16 I can remember.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
It is becoming painful to watch Felix. Technically, his strokes are good, but while he is powerful, he does not seem relaxed or fluid. And while it is at times entertaining to watch his raw athleticism, his game style is mostly boring. It is also unacceptable that he is double-faulting as much as he is. By all accounts, he is a very nice person, and I wish him well, but unless there is a big shift in his development, I don't see his current trajectory being one of multiple major winner, and No. 1 player in the world.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
It pops up in wins as well.
albertobra
Hall of Fame
Could compare to Thiem, who was quite raw at younger ages. I too see the problem on his movement. Of course he is fast, but need to work on footwork adjustment before impact. Man, so many sitters and normal forehands mistaken today.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Retired in 12 career matches, as many as Murray, Nadal and Fed combined (Roger has never retired during a match).
Maybe you're aware of it now? Mentally strong players don't quit in 3/4 slams, as did young Novak.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
LOL...you do realize Thiem in 2015 was already nearly 22 at that Kitzbuhel tournament and had played ATP Tour for nearly two full seasons. Félix turned 19 today and this is his first full year at ATP level.
#ApplesToOranges
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Gluten made him weak
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Anyone who doubts Djokovic wasn't mentally weak 2006-Jan 2008 then 2009-2010 wasn't watching tennis.Gluten made him weak
-snake-
Hall of Fame
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OutOfBounds
Rookie
Maybe I misunderstand, but I thought that was the point, that if Thiem was able to improve after experiencing some similar issues, so can Felix and especially consiering he is years younger than Thiem at the time?
stringertom
Bionic Poster
That was my point.
Shaky technique doesn't always mean being mentally weak.
Novak had got a new racquet and a new coach and Todd Martin who also changed his service motion. That hurt him for a while.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
One thing to realise that while Thiem is almost 26 he still only has a single M1000 to his name and is still a fairly limited player off clay.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
It takes a special kind of talent to win that M1K at IW on HC vs fedr and then add a stay at WATLYNM immediately after that in Miami, courtesy of Hubert Horatio Hurkacz.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
The bar has been so spectacularly lowered in tennis that a 19 year old who has never won a title and has never been past the third round of a major is an "early bloomer." Reference point should be guys who won slams at 17 like Boris, Chang and Mats.
I like Felix, but he has a ton of work to do before he wins events. His mental shakiness is becoming an established pattern and that's not good. And the yips on his serve is equally bad.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
Fair. But he was also ahead in the match at that point.
OutOfBounds
Rookie
How about asking someone who knows a thing or two about being an early bloomer? Let's see what Richard Gasquet has to say about that.
Richard Gasquet : "J'étais le meilleur en France mais il y a eu beaucoup trop d'attentes sur moi."
Interview "souvenirs de jeunesse" avec Richard Gasquet, l'ancien prodige du tennis français.
www.tennislegend.fr
So, two things: you are going back to 30 years ago and earlier. The eras were different. At the time, the players traveled only with their coach. The training has changed, the players are bigger, stronger, a lot of them travel with a fitness trainer... What was possible for Chang at 17 in 1989 might no longer be possible for a player of the same age and same development stage in 2019. Even Gasquet thinks the players have gotten much more stronger between 2005 and the year of the interview, 2016.
I kept the part about Nadal because I found interesting how Gasquet noticed how quickly he seemed to improve in a very short period of time. Also, Nadal was physically very developed for his age, more than Felix.
As for the work to do, I fully agree Felix has still has plenty to do, but he says so himself. He even asked the fans to be patient in an interview not long ago. I don't understand why fans seem so quick to base his future on the present, as if it was not possible to learn how to compete under pressure and improve his shots. Many chronically anxious people are able to learn to deal with it. I studied for a long time, came back for another degree as an adult, and I can tell you that I was still improving my studying techniques and how I was preparing for exams until the end, becoming more and more efficient. A teacher in high school once told us that we were at the peak of our capacity to learn by age 22. Far from true, believe me. Let's wait before worrying too much about "established patterns". He'll learn, and he'll learn how to learn too.
Felix's tachycardia episode showed up right at the moment he went back on the court to start the third set. At that point, the first set went 7-5 for Denis and the second one was won by Felix with the same score. The match could hardly have been more equal. Unless you believe that going ahead 4-1 in the third against an opponent who was almost fainting on the court is meaningful tennis wise.
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gogo
Legend
And yet you cheer for/ justify Shapo who is older. Hmmm.
James P
G.O.A.T.
What's an early bloomer in the Big 3 era? Not a lot of 20-25 year olds winning Slams either.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
Gogo; no one has to justify cheering for anyone. Where would you get the idea that we have to justify ourselves to you, or anyone here? People who cheer for an athlete do so for many reasons, but they don't have to be at the top of the game to earn our interest. If I, or anyone here wants to cheer for Shapovalov or FAA, or Roger, or anyone, it's our own business. We don't need to be told we can or can't do so. And, no one needs to justify anyone's career. Both Denis and Felix are still very young and have a lot of development yet in their games. Yes, some players have had spectacular results as younger athletes, but most don't. If you look at Rod Laver's results, for example, he did not begin earning big titles until his early to mid twenties. He was 24 when he won the Grand Slam for the first time and 31 when he won it for the 2nd time. I'm not suggesting that either Denis or Felix are anywhere close to the Rocket, but great results tend to come when the person and their game mature. For some it comes earlier, and for some, it comes later. But, I don't know what's happened to this forum when people are bossing others around and telling us to stop saying certain things, or justify our belief in someone. That is just toxic.
gogo
Legend
I totally agree with you.
I wasn't criticizing who they were cheering for, it was that they used an argument that would have applied to who they cheered for. I was questioning the argument.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
Actually, it was more anxiety. Felix himself said so. When the heart races like that, it's a classic sign of a panic attack. There is nothing wrong with Felix'sHow about asking someone who knows a thing or two about being an early bloomer? Let's see what Richard Gasquet has to say about that.
Richard Gasquet : "J'étais le meilleur en France mais il y a eu beaucoup trop d'attentes sur moi."
Interview "souvenirs de jeunesse" avec Richard Gasquet, l'ancien prodige du tennis français.
So, two things: you are going back to 30 years ago and earlier. The eras were different. At the time, the players traveled only with their coach. The training has changed, the players are bigger, stronger, a lot of them travel with a fitness trainer... What was possible for Chang at 17 in 1989 might no longer be possible for a player of the same age and same development stage in 2019. Even Gasquet thinks the players have gotten much more stronger between 2005 and the year of the interview, 2016.
I kept the part about Nadal because I found interesting how Gasquet noticed how quickly he seemed to improve in a very short period of time. Also, Nadal was physically very developed for his age, more than Felix.
As for the work to do, I fully agree Felix has still has plenty to do, but he says so himself. He even asked the fans to be patient in an interview not long ago. I don't understand why fans seem so quick to base his future on the present, as if it was not possible to learn how to compete under pressure and improve his shots. Many chronically anxious people are able to learn to deal with it. I studied for a long time, came back for another degree as an adult, and I can tell you that I was still improving my studying techniques and how I was preparing for exams until the end, becoming more and more efficient. A teacher in high school once told us that we were at the peak of our capacity to learn by age 22. Far from true, believe me. Let's wait before worrying too much about "established patterns". He'll learn, and he'll learn how to learn too.
Felix's tachycardia episode showed up right at the moment he went back on the court to start the third set. At that point, the first set went 7-5 for Denis and the second one was won by Felix with the same score. The match could hardly have been more equal. Unless you believe that going ahead 4-1 in the third against an opponent who was almost fainting on the court is meaningful tennis wise.
My apologies.
gogo
Legend
No problem. I am far from perfect. As a matter of fact I was less than stellar a couple of weeks ago when I gave @BeatlesFan a hard time. I regretted the comments I made and wish I had simply taken a couple of thoughtful minutes before posting.
(And perhaps not post after I've had a couple of glasses of wine.
)
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
I wish some of Denis' critics would have watched him play doubles tonight. Although he and Bopanna lost in two tight tie-breakers, they played beautifully. Denis never defaulted once, and served beautifully throughout, mixing it up very nicely. He also rocketed some gorgeous returns and played very well at the net. And, you're right none of us are perfect. I often post when I should have spent time thinking things over first. And, cyberspace isn't an easy place to communicate. So, perhaps all of us need to take some deep breaths first before we say things to others. It's so easy to criticize, and yes, we can apologize, but feelings get hurt and we can't take those words back. I know I've been guilty of that too.
OutOfBounds
Rookie
No it wasn't a panic attack, it is called tachycardia and he had surgery to fix it in the off season. Yes, there was something physically wrong that triggered an elevated heart rate. His last two episodes in competition occurred in exceptional heat and humidity. Nervousness (which is different from anxiety) may or may not have been a factor, but if he hadn't had tachycardia, he would have been as capable to compete as any other nervous player. Don't get mistaken, all players get nervous. Both Shapovalov and Auger-Aliassime played nervously at the US Open, neither being capable of winning the set they were leading. I've never heard anything about a panic attack. You should either post your sources or say nothing, especially if you haven't been interested enough in Felix to learn about the follow up after that episode.
But who exactly has criticized Denis in Felix's topic? I've looked at the previous pages in this topic and found nothing. May I enjoy talking about Felix here and elsewhere without misinformation and meaningless comparisons between these two being brought out of nowhere? I can ignore you, but I can't make everyone else do, so I get to read weird comments anyway in the thread. Is it really too much to ask to stay on topic?
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Sparlingo
Hall of Fame
Felix had previous episodes of tachycardia at the challenger level in games that didn't mean much. It was 40 degrees celsius in that OSO match and tachycardia episodes can be/ are brought on by strenuous exercise and dehydration. Felix hasn't had any "panic attacks" since he had surgery to fix his tachycardia, he just double faults a lot when he gets nervous.
Joseph_K
Hall of Fame
Yes, a disappointing performance earlier today from Felix as he went down 6-3, 6-3 to fellow 19-year-old Miomir Kecmanovic in first-round action at the Western and Southern Open in Cincinnati. This is only the second time in fifteen tournaments since Buenos Aires in mid-February of this year that Felix has lost his first singles match at a tournament.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Disappointing but not surprised
Fix your serve Felix
Fix your serve Felix
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
That 2nd serve toss is just too aggressive! Got to have more margin.
OutOfBounds
Rookie
I just couldn't resist: this is a really hilarious quote for someone with your nickname!
Seriously, I do get where you are coming from.
Pmasterfunk
Hall of Fame
Kecmanovic is a decent prospect, though. FAA has had a pretty busy first year on tour, he's played a lot of matches leading up to Wimbledon, and he's slowed down since. He's probably a bit gassed. I'll start worrying next year when he loses more matches than he wins #shapoburn
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