Tough break for Thiem

[Whisper]

Thiem has to play against ‘greatest ever at a slam’ in 2 different slam finals. He’s already played greatest ever FO champion in a FO final (twice), and is now playing greatest ever AO champion in AO final. Talk about a tough draw!

For this record I only consider ‘greatest ever at a slam’ when the number is actually posted, thus beating Djoker in AO before he won 7th or beating Rafa in FO final before he won his 7th don’t count as they weren’t stand alone goat at the time.

Djoker has also done it at FO and Wimbledon. His win over Wimbledon goat last yr was epic as he saved 2 mp doing it.

Anyone else done it? Fed and Rafa have never done it.

 

[ChrisRF]

I agree, but this is just what the Big 3 era brings. They are so great everywhere but espeacially at "their" tournament that they are expected to wait in the final. If we take that almost as a given, then only meeting them in the final is actually the easiest draw.

 

[Whisper]

But as far as chances of winning a slam goes you can’t have it much tougher than Thiem. Who wants to play god of FO, god of AO in those slam finals when you’re trying to break through for a 1st slam title? How much tougher can it get?

If he never wins a slam at least everyone will know the players he lost to so hardly shameful.

 

[ChrisRF]

But as far as chances of winning a slam goes you can’t have it much tougher than Thiem. Who wants to play god of FO, god of AO in those slam finals when you’re trying to break through for a 1st slam title? How much tougher can it get?

If he never wins a slam at least everyone will know the players he lost to so hardly shameful.

Of course, I didn't want to dispute that it was never tougher to make the Slam winning breakthrough than the past 15 years of the Big 3 dominance. I just meant that it was the better for just reaching the final, which is already a great achievement and experience.

 

[yokied]

Pretty sure Noel had to earn it too in a very similar vein, against younger ATGs than Tim. Fed did put down Sampras at WB and Agassi a fair few times. Plus Fed has murdered millions from the tennis equivalent of a retirement home, so yeah Tim hasn't got it or had it that bad, for some time either.

 

[Bagel Boy]

But as far as chances of winning a slam goes you can’t have it much tougher than Thiem. Who wants to play god of FO, god of AO in those slam finals when you’re trying to break through for a 1st slam title? How much tougher can it get?

If he never wins a slam at least everyone will know the players he lost to so hardly shameful.

I highly doubt he's looking at it as playing gods. He's beaten both...and should look at them as old men hanging on. I also think he would rather break through playing them than anyone else. I think he wins this, or he dies on the court trying.

 

[ForehandRF]

Pretty sure Noel had to earn it too in a very similar vein, against younger ATGs than Tim. Fed did put down Sampras at WB and Agassi a fair few times. Plus Fed has murdered millions from the tennis equivalent of a retirement home, so yeah Tim hasn't got it or had it that bad, for some time either.

Yeah, Fed beating Pete was an amazing achievement, especially taking into account that he was yet to reach his peak, unlike Thiem who already plays his best hardcourt tennis.

 

[aditya123]

Thiem has to play against ‘greatest ever at a slam’ in 2 different slam finals. He’s already played greatest ever FO champion in a FO final (twice), and is now playing greatest ever AO champion in AO final. Talk about a tough draw!

For this record I only consider ‘greatest ever at a slam’ when the number is actually posted, thus beating Djoker in AO before he won 7th or beating Rafa in FO final before he won his 7th don’t count as they weren’t stand alone goat at the time.

Djoker has also done it at FO and Wimbledon. His win over Wimbledon goat last yr was epic as he saved 2 mp doing it.

Anyone else done it? Fed and Rafa have never done it.

25% chance of Rafa Calendar slam....

 

[aditya123]

 

[oldmanfan]

Are you saying... Thiem will make it to the WB20 finals against Fedr?!
(in Thiem's voice) Deeel!

 

[lud]

If you want to be best, you have to defeat best.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Are you saying... Thiem will make it to the WB20 finals against Fedr?!
(in Thiem's voice) Deeel!

I thought Stan came up with this lol. It's an awful quote regardless

 

[Spider]

This is the reality. Tomorrow will be moment of truth for him. Djoker will be ready.

 

[nov]

If you want to be the best you have to beat the best, this is how it works

 

[oldmanfan]

I thought Stan came up with this lol. It's an awful quote regardless

No, Stan is not that poetic (that I know of...).

I disagree with you here. It's a great quote, one of my favorite after seeing it. It's even realistic for all endeavors in life bc most of us can't be the best or succeed all the time. If we don't try after failure, are we to just sit in a corner and suck on our thumbs? Or try to improve so that we can improve our future chances at success? The proof is in the putting. We'd never get Stanimal otherwise.

 

[ScottleeSV]

Thiem has beaten Djokovic twice at the French over 5 sets. He can do it here too albeit it will be slightly harder. That's the challenge though. You don't get slams for free.

As 'unlucky' as he might have been with who he's been playing these finals though, he still needs to bring his best game on his side of the net. He level has noticably dropped against Nadal whenever it's a slam final as opposed to when they just play the regular tour events. That needs to change tomorrow and just maybe he'll have a shot to win.

 

[RaulRamirez]

As you said, Novak's done it at least twice, and Fed did it versus Sampras in 2001. Rafa beating Roger in 2008 (W) may not meet your requirement, but it may have been the toughest task.

Thiem has a good shot at it.
Question: Is he already the best active player without a slam? Best ever without a slam (?) - including guys like Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga, Nalbandian, etc? I can't imagine Thiem not winning any.

 

[Whisper]

As you said, Novak's done it at least twice, and Fed did it versus Sampras in 2001. Rafa beating Roger in 2008 (W) may not meet your requirement, but it may have been the toughest task.

Federer did not do it even once. The match v Sampras was not a Wimbledon final, not by a long shot lol. Sampras didn't win a tournament anywhere for 2 yrs, so losing to Fed was not a surprise as he was losing everywhere for years. Also Sampras was not the only player with 7 Wimbledon titles so not 'stand alone' goat at Wimbledon.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Federer did not do it even once. The match v Sampras was not a Wimbledon final, not by a long shot lol. Sampras didn't win a tournament anywhere for 2 yrs, so losing to Fed was not a surprise as he was losing everywhere for years. Also Sampras was not the only player with 7 Wimbledon titles so not 'stand alone' goat at Wimbledon.

Are you kidding me? Sampras was the defending champion, and had won 7 out of the last 8 WCs. Yes, he was past his prime and Fed hadn't reached his yet, but still, quite a victory. And in the Open Era, Sampras was standing alone at 7 titles.... I think you have to go back to the 19th Century to find someone else with 7.

 

[Guru Apu]

Man who loses a set to Zverev has no chance to win for Novak.

I have more chance of marrying Scarlet Johnsson than Theim has to win tomorrow.

 

[Whisper]

Are you kidding me? Sampras was the defending champion, and had won 7 out of the last 8 WCs. Yes, he was past his prime and Fed hadn't reached his yet, but still, quite a victory. And in the Open Era, Sampras was standing alone at 7 titles.... I think you have to go back to the 19th Century to find someone else with 7.

It wasn't a final which was the whole point of the thread. There are too many matches to count if we are looking at all rounds. It means something if it is a slam final & you're playing goat of that slam. For starters it means both guys are at very high level simply by virtue of making the final. The Sampras/Fed match was garbage quality compared to their best tennis so has no significance. Sampras barely beat Barry Cowan in 5 sets a couple days earlier, & Fed was trounced by Henman. This is light yrs away from slam final quality.

 

[Tony48]

True. But as others have said: if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

 

[RaulRamirez]

It wasn't a final which was the whole point of the thread. There are too many matches to count if we are looking at all rounds. It means something if it is a slam final & you're playing goat of that slam. For starters it means both guys are at very high level simply by virtue of making the final. The Sampras/Fed match was garbage quality compared to their best tennis so has no significance. Sampras barely beat Barry Cowan in 5 sets a couple days earlier, & Fed was trounced by Henman. This is light yrs away from slam final quality.

On that point, I stand corrected, so Novak (and I'm a big fan) only did it successfully once - still a worthy achievement. But you should have gotten your facts straight about Pete's record at W, even if they met in the 4th round in 2001.

 

[Whisper]

On that point, I stand corrected, so Novak (and I'm a big fan) only did it successfully once - still a worthy achievement. But you should have gotten your facts straight about Pete's record at W, even if they met in the 4th round in 2001.

It's a fact Sampras won zero titles between Wimbledon 2000 & USO 2002 - more than 2 yrs of losing in every tournament he entered. I don't see him losing to Federer out of all those losses as something extraordinary. He was losing in every tournament at the time. If they met in a Wimbledon final yes it would be a big deal, but 4th rd when both guys far from peak is pointles.

 

[E46luver]

as nadal said, you never get an easy walk over at a slam final

 

[rUDin 21]

Thiem has beaten Djokovic twice at the French over 5 sets. He can do it here too albeit it will be slightly harder. That's the challenge though. You don't get slams for free.

As 'unlucky' as he might have been with who he's been playing these finals though, he still needs to bring his best game on his side of the net. He level has noticably dropped against Nadal whenever it's a slam final as opposed to when they just play the regular tour events. That needs to change tomorrow and just maybe he'll have a shot to win.

Not slightly harder,much harder.Is it coincidence that Thiem beat Nadal at AO and Djokovic at RG and not the other way around?

 

[TennisFan3]

No, Stan is not that poetic (that I know of...).

I disagree with you here. It's a great quote, one of my favorite after seeing it. It's even realistic for all endeavors in life bc most of us can't be the best or succeed all the time. If we don't try after failure, are we to just sit in a corner and suck on our thumbs? Or try to improve so that we can improve our future chances at success? The proof is in the putting. We'd never get Stanimal otherwise.

Excellent post. Well done sir. Agree 100 percent.

 

[GabeT]

Thiem has to play against ‘greatest ever at a slam’ in 2 different slam finals. He’s already played greatest ever FO champion in a FO final (twice), and is now playing greatest ever AO champion in AO final. Talk about a tough draw!

For this record I only consider ‘greatest ever at a slam’ when the number is actually posted, thus beating Djoker in AO before he won 7th or beating Rafa in FO final before he won his 7th don’t count as they weren’t stand alone goat at the time.

Djoker has also done it at FO and Wimbledon. His win over Wimbledon goat last yr was epic as he saved 2 mp doing it.

Anyone else done it? Fed and Rafa have never done it.

No doubt Thiem faced and faces a great challenge. But let’s not confuse number of titles won with the level of play. Rafa or Nole didn’t get better once they crossed the GOAT threshold for RG and AO. In fact they probably got worse simply due to getting older. Nole won his seventh AO last year, becoming the AO GOAT. Does anyone think that makes him now a greater competitor in Australia than he was, say, in 2011 when he had only one AO to his name?

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Thiem has to play against ‘greatest ever at a slam’ in 2 different slam finals. He’s already played greatest ever FO champion in a FO final (twice), and is now playing greatest ever AO champion in AO final. Talk about a tough draw!

For this record I only consider ‘greatest ever at a slam’ when the number is actually posted, thus beating Djoker in AO before he won 7th or beating Rafa in FO final before he won his 7th don’t count as they weren’t stand alone goat at the time.

Djoker has also done it at FO and Wimbledon. His win over Wimbledon goat last yr was epic as he saved 2 mp doing it.

Anyone else done it? Fed and Rafa have never done it.

Yes, Thiem is unlucky.

Take Cilic. The guy gets to play NISHIKORI in his 1st slam finale. Wawrinka gets to play an injured Rafa at AO.

So yeah, luck plays a big role in sports and Thiem hasn't got it.

But he still might win.

 

[MichaelNadal]

No, Stan is not that poetic (that I know of...).

I disagree with you here. It's a great quote, one of my favorite after seeing it. It's even realistic for all endeavors in life bc most of us can't be the best or succeed all the time. If we don't try after failure, are we to just sit in a corner and suck on our thumbs? Or try to improve so that we can improve our future chances at success? The proof is in the putting. We'd never get Stanimal otherwise.

It's terrible bc it isn't proper english/proper anything. "Fail Better" lol I like the message behind it but the quote itself is ass.

 

[MeatTornado]

It's a fact Sampras won zero titles between Wimbledon 2000 & USO 2002 - more than 2 yrs of losing in every tournament he entered.

But you can't say it wasn't a surprise he lost to Federer because he lost everywhere for 2 years when we didn't know that yet, it had only been 1 year at the time.

Unless you're trying to say it's not a surprise in hindsight, which is a different story.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

The greater the challenge, the greater the joy in overcoming it!
Thiem will need to play the match of his life to have a chance!

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

It wasn't a final which was the whole point of the thread. There are too many matches to count if we are looking at all rounds. It means something if it is a slam final & you're playing goat of that slam. For starters it means both guys are at very high level simply by virtue of making the final. The Sampras/Fed match was garbage quality compared to their best tennis so has no significance. Sampras barely beat Barry Cowan in 5 sets a couple days earlier, & Fed was trounced by Henman. This is light yrs away from slam final quality.

Applying transitivity to the tournament h2hs, Sampras < Fred < Henman < Ivanisevic > Rafter at '01 WB, with all matches being close (close five sets, close four sets, close five sets, close five sets). Quality not far below, then. Had Pete beatened Rog, he might've trolled his way through Henman-Ivanisevic-Rafter draw on swagger alone. Had a tough 3R vs Rusedski at 2002 USO too, and look what happened then.

 

[Mainad]

I thought Stan came up with this lol. It's an awful quote regardless

Actually it's a very good quote. It means that you keep on failing better and better until you fail so well that you actually win.

 

[Mainad]

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/thiem-we-always-have-to-beat-all-these-unbelievable-legends.662499/

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Thiem past couple years has been the only top player at a peak playing age. He's pretty lucky IMO. Wouldn't even be making finals in certain other eras.

 

[beltsman]

The theim excuses begin. Wah wah. The guy just doesn't have "it."

 

[Mike Sams]

Thiem past couple years has been the only top player at a peak playing age. He's pretty lucky IMO. Wouldn't even be making finals in certain other eras.

The big 3 are all well into their 30s. It's inevitable that younger players will start emerging and contending for the big titles.

 

[DSH]

Komm schon Thiem, besiege den serbischen Roboter!

 

[MathGeek]

Thiem earned this opportunity. I'm rooting for him.

Tough break? Better than watching from home.

I'm happy for him.

 

[Tenez!]

I thought Stan came up with this lol. It's an awful quote regardless

No, Stan is not that poetic (that I know of...).

I disagree with you here. It's a great quote, one of my favorite after seeing it. It's even realistic for all endeavors in life bc most of us can't be the best or succeed all the time. If we don't try after failure, are we to just sit in a corner and suck on our thumbs? Or try to improve so that we can improve our future chances at success? The proof is in the putting. We'd never get Stanimal otherwise.

It's terrible bc it isn't proper english/proper anything. "Fail Better" lol I like the message behind it but the quote itself is ass.

The quote is by Irish poet Samuel Beckett, Nobel winner for Literature in 1969. (not that it's related but that's for the Shakespeares here who think they can advise him @MichaelNadal)
Beckett's own life was steeped in failure and misery until his mid-50s and he produced this line in a bleak book called Worstward Ho about the futility of life.

Recently it's been coopted by the American corporate and marketing world, who lend it an optimistic angle it certainly didn't have originally. Since the late 2000, under its new form, the quote has become phenomenally popular. Meanwhile the book itself remains so bleak few people can stand reading it...

This great piece in the wake of AO 2014 explains the story behind the quote: The Stunning Success of "Fail Better"
Wawrinka had his tattoo inked mid 2013.

 

[The_Order]

Thiem has to play against ‘greatest ever at a slam’ in 2 different slam finals. He’s already played greatest ever FO champion in a FO final (twice), and is now playing greatest ever AO champion in AO final. Talk about a tough draw!

For this record I only consider ‘greatest ever at a slam’ when the number is actually posted, thus beating Djoker in AO before he won 7th or beating Rafa in FO final before he won his 7th don’t count as they weren’t stand alone goat at the time.

Djoker has also done it at FO and Wimbledon. His win over Wimbledon goat last yr was epic as he saved 2 mp doing it.

Anyone else done it? Fed and Rafa have never done it.

Yeah of course, Djokovic's win over 2015 RG Nadal and 2019 WIM Fed are more impressive than Soderling's RG win v Nadal and Nadal's 08 WIM win v Fed...

Epic logic...

 

[Whisper]

Again you’re missing the point of this thread. It’s about the reality of coming into a slam final playing the goat of that slam - very rare experience. The 2 matches you mention don’t fit that description. I don’t care if your feelings are hurt. It’s not about making you feel good.

 

[mental midget]

tough but hey, an opportunity really shove your way into the mix, take out the odds-on champ in his own backyard. what would be unfair though is if he's under the weather, heard something about thiem having come down w something...verifiable or baseless internet rumor?

 

[Mike Sams]

tough but hey, an opportunity really shove your way into the mix, take out the odds-on champ in his own backyard. what would be unfair though is if he's under the weather, heard something about thiem having come down w something...verifiable or baseless internet rumor?

You're reading a report from a year ago. Thiem had a cold at last year's AO.

 

[duaneeo]

Thiem has to play against ‘greatest ever at a slam’ in 2 different slam finals. He’s already played greatest ever FO champion in a FO final (twice), and is now playing greatest ever AO champion in AO final. Talk about a tough draw!

When Thiem faced Nadal in the 2018 FO final, it was a Nadal who had won his first FO final 13 years earlier. His "greatest ever FO champion"-level tennis is long gone. Likewise for Djokovic at the AO.

Facing Djokovic in the AO final or Rafa in the RG final should not be seen as a 'tough break' for these younger players, but as a time to finally step up.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Actually it's a very good quote. It means that you keep on failing better and better until you fail so well that you actually win.

Terrible lol.

 

[BeatlesFan]

His win over Wimbledon goat last yr was epic as he saved 2 mp doing it.

Wait a second. Your entire online posting history, here and elsewhere over the last 18 years, has consisted of little else but claiming Sampras is not only Wimbledon GOAT, but overall GOAT. Since when have you decided is Federer Wimbledon GOAT? The rest of the world deduced that long ago, but you were were always a hold out. Welcome to sanity.

 

[wangs78]

...but as a time to finally step up.

We've been getting closer and closer... but will the dam finally break today?? ))