Weird how some posters from Texas get so offended when we call out their worst offenders. I never see other sections have this reaction. Its usually just "Yeah, we know those guys are bad. Wish they'd do something about it." Instead we get "Not just Texas!"I thought only Texas had ringers. This has to be a mistake. I’ve read it many times on this board.
It's not unique to TX, but they are by far the worst offenders. Remember, JF's ridiculous Hunter Emmot team was beaten in the finals by an even cheatier team from SoCal.I thought only Texas had ringers. This has to be a mistake. I’ve read it many times on this board.
Damn, dude, you've been kicking ass. Nice. Are you guys missing your younger singles guy or are you just trying to see if you can take 18s with a 40+ team, LOL?Tell you what. Florida and Northern teams have been class acts. Great experience so far.
It's not unique to TX, but they are by far the worst offenders. Remember, JF's ridiculous Hunter Emmot team was beaten in the finals by an even cheatier team from SoCal.
I see that Intermountain has unleashed their 5.0+ Asian Sensation in 4.0 singles. Over/Under for games lost per match has to be 1.5 for him. All IM has to do now is split the other 4 matches 2-2 each round and they are 4.0 National Champs on Sunday.
At Nationals yes, it would be. But not a first for this format. NorCal used the format for Districts this year with the top-4 advancing to Sectionals and had five undefeated teams. Of course they were stupid and used the format with I think 21 teams and each one only playing three matches, ... It was bound to happen ...After day 1 it looks like 18+ 4.0 men could possibly finish with five undefeated teams. Would this be a first?
Some of Intermountain scores against PNW were pretty bleak. 1 Singles: 6-0, 6-0 2 Singles: 6-0, 6-1 3rd Dubs: 6-0, 6-0. I know several of those PNW players and they definitely do not suck. In fact, TennisRecord has both of PNW's singles guys listed as 3.87s, which is on the higher end of 4.0... not a level where they should be getting double bageled by "equal" competition.
Or, Middle States can go be upset by New England 3-2 and ruin the whole scenario. @J_R_B what happened to your boys?At Nationals yes, it would be. But not a first for this format. NorCal used the format for Districts this year with the top-4 advancing to Sectionals and had five undefeated teams. Of course they were stupid and used the format with I think 21 teams and each one only playing three matches, ... It was bound to happen ...
As far as it happening this year, yes, my simulation says a very good (all things considered) 12% chance of it. Eastern and Middle West the most likely to slip up. Those two teams play each other so one will knock off the other, and then Eastern still has to play Florida who lost narrowly 3-2 to both Middle States and Texas (tough draw!).
Note that Florida appears to not have two of their stronger players, so my simulation perhaps overrates them slightly and then Eastern very well could pull it off.
Tennessee is kickin a and takin names it looks like. Saw that team at sectionals, they looked pretty solid.I missed it earlier, but the 4.5 men could also end up with five undefeated teams. Four are 3-0 right now, another is 2-0 with two easier matches remaining.
Matches to watch are:
Middle States vs Florida - Florida is strong on paper, but lost three matches all 3-2, perhaps due to some missing players as 3 of their top-11 have a not played
Southern vs Texas - Texas is still in it at 2-1 and a good team, their only loss to Middle West, but needs to win and some help, this is perhaps where the 5 undefeated could go awry
If it does happen, Intermountain looks to be the most likely to miss out, but Middle States is just ahead of them and has the tougher remaining match.
Or, Middle States can go be upset by New England 3-2 and ruin the whole scenario. @J_R_B what happened to your boys?
I missed it earlier, but the 4.5 men could also end up with five undefeated teams. Four are 3-0 right now, another is 2-0 with two easier matches remaining.
Matches to watch are:
Middle States vs Florida - Florida is strong on paper, but lost three matches all 3-2, perhaps due to some missing players as 3 of their top-11 have a not played
Southern vs Texas - Texas is still in it at 2-1 and a good team, their only loss to Middle West, but needs to win and some help, this is perhaps where the 5 undefeated could go awry
If it does happen, Intermountain looks to be the most likely to miss out, but Middle States is just ahead of them and has the tougher remaining match.
I was rooting for chaos too! IM, you let us down!Oh boy, the score just posted for the 3:00 4.5 match between Intermountain and Southwest. Intermountain got a default in 2nd singles and won #1 singles, but got swept in doubles (including a 3rd set breaker at #3 dubs) to lose. That means they finish 3-1, and there will only be 4 undefeated teams.
I was rooting for the chaos of 5 undefeated teams, but Intermountain needed a 5-0 sweep in that last match to have a chance of getting in.
Middle states vs New England this morning: three court TBs went down to 2-2 and singles 1 went the way of New England. Hanging a loss on us. We did just 5-0 PNW but that’s not going to do it unless Florida beats eastern and then A Texas loss. It was a good run.
Definitely a good run! Congrats! Most teams would be happy to go 3-1 at Nationals and compete for a semifinal spot.
I feel bad for that PNW 4.0 team. The core of that group is a bunch of older guys who have been 4.0s for 15+ years. Their best player is in his late 40s or early 50s, and was a solid 4.5 doubles player about 8 or 9 years ago. They don't have a single ringer on that team - everybody is a legit 4.0. The same guys won both 18s and 40s at Sectionals, so it was a good run for them, getting numerous clutch 3-2 wins along the way, but clearly, PNW is having a down year when it comes to the National tournament. (PNW has been at the bottom of the standings in men's 18s 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0+, and 40s 4.0 so far.)
Definitely a good run! Congrats! Most teams would be happy to go 3-1 at Nationals and compete for a semifinal spot.
I feel bad for that PNW 4.0 team. The core of that group is a bunch of older guys who have been 4.0s for 15+ years. Their best player is in his late 40s or early 50s, and was a solid 4.5 doubles player about 8 or 9 years ago. They don't have a single ringer on that team - everybody is a legit 4.0. The same guys won both 18s and 40s at Sectionals, so it was a good run for them, getting numerous clutch 3-2 wins along the way, but clearly, PNW is having a down year when it comes to the National tournament. (PNW has been at the bottom of the standings in men's 18s 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0+, and 40s 4.0 so far.)
Yeah the pair we played. (On an amazing stadium court at red rock country club) we’re serving bombs at us. Match came down to us breaking them once in first set and again in second. Team is definitely older with one guy turning 60 last week at 40+ nationals. ( they got him on the stadium court for his birthday match in Az). All were nice and for the teams we played everyone were stand up guys. Players social in an hour so will be sad to say goodbye to nationals and 4.0 land. Hello 4.5 here I come
Clearly no one sandbags in PNW ...Definitely a good run! Congrats! Most teams would be happy to go 3-1 at Nationals and compete for a semifinal spot.
I feel bad for that PNW 4.0 team. The core of that group is a bunch of older guys who have been 4.0s for 15+ years. Their best player is in his late 40s or early 50s, and was a solid 4.5 doubles player about 8 or 9 years ago. They don't have a single ringer on that team - everybody is a legit 4.0. The same guys won both 18s and 40s at Sectionals, so it was a good run for them, getting numerous clutch 3-2 wins along the way, but clearly, PNW is having a down year when it comes to the National tournament. (PNW has been at the bottom of the standings in men's 18s 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0+, and 40s 4.0 so far.)
Clearly no one sandbags in PNW ...
Yeah the pair we played. (On an amazing stadium court at red rock country club) we’re serving bombs at us. Match came down to us breaking them once in first set and again in second. Team is definitely older with one guy turning 60 last week at 40+ nationals. ( they got him on the stadium court for his birthday match in Az). All were nice and for the teams we played everyone were stand up guys. Players social in an hour so will be sad to say goodbye to nationals and 4.0 land. Hello 4.5 here I come
Weird how some posters from Texas get so offended when we call out their worst offenders. I never see other sections have this reaction. Its usually just "Yeah, we know those guys are bad. Wish they'd do something about it." Instead we get "Not just Texas!"
At least, not this year! LOL!
(In the past, PNW has definitely had some clear sandbaggers and has collected a few National titles because of it. The ratings hammer in 2014 cleared some of that up, and a few of the captains that stretched the rules have gone into hibernation recently.)
For the record, I don't accept it in my section or any other. I've reported shenanigans to my LC and Section numerous times and will continue to do so.PNW has produced some notorious cheaters and whiners. Yet, too many ignore the shenanigans in their own sections while pointing fingers at othersz. The whole ‘your ringers beat my ringers’ argument is preposterous. I’ve noticed the most notorious offenders are Carib/Southern/TX/NorCal/SoCal/PNW but others pull stuff too. Is it right? NO!!! Yet, many accept some shenanigans in their section if it isn’t ‘too much’ according to their own undefined ‘too much’ standards.
PNW has produced some notorious cheaters and whiners. Yet, too many ignore the shenanigans in their own sections while pointing fingers at othersz. The whole ‘your ringers beat my ringers’ argument is preposterous. I’ve noticed the most notorious offenders are Carib/Southern/TX/NorCal/SoCal/PNW but others pull stuff too. Is it right? NO!!! Yet, many accept some shenanigans in their section if it isn’t ‘too much’ according to their own undefined ‘too much’ standards.
I'm interested in IM vs Mid-Atlantic in the Mens 4.0 matchup.
Good to hear this, since my daughter was one of themAnd the USTA staff has been really great this time around as well.
I'm sorry if I come across as attacking Texas. I'll try to stop instigating in that sense. We agree that these issues happen in a ton of places, like the sections you named. And we agree that all the cheating is bad, not just some. We're not neglectful. That's why your argument here comes of as silly. Most people (that care to post about this topic on an internet forum) recognize the stuff in their own districts and take action there. Merely talking about Texas pales in comparison to that.Weird how non-Texas guys think their level of cheating is justified. Our point is simple. We know it happens and don’t like/condone but you are fine with it in your section but don’t condone cheating in excess of your non-published tolerance level.
Work on your own section and we will work on ours. Cheating is cheating but because you and others are fine with cheating as long as it is less than your cheating is acceptable is problematic.
1) The USTA has to figure scheduling out. They have an algorithm that could seed these things and get teams equal schedules. We lost 3-2 in tight matches to two of the best three teams here, maybe the best two-we will see today. In the end, we were done after losing 3-2 to Texas because Florida had such an easy road we would have lost the tiebreaker anyway. Looking at Florida and Northern Cal’s schedules, we go 4-0 with those.
For the most part, I actually agree with you. I just disagree Texas is more egregious. In my opinion, if a team is purposely pulling ANYTHING then they are no different than the one pulling a whole lot. It is a cheating for me but not for thee attitude and certain people get mad because they get out-cheated. If you are a captain who has NEVER tried to game the system, then you have the moral high ground. The whole Texas has more/better ringers than my team gets very little sympathy.
D2 was the only match that wasn't decided by IM winning a break in each set. I was mainly interested as we played them in the local league and also curious how IM's top S1 guy stacked up against Mid-Atlantics S1 guy.I was too. But IM won it in rather decidedly fashion, 5-0. A couple of the matches were close. The rest not so much.
Completely agree. In my simulations I always note the range of schedule strengths and it is usually around a 0.15 difference from easiest to toughest, but sometimes bigger. For most flights, I've created schedules myself that can typically get that range down to 0.05-0.07 which is a lot more even, by doing seeding and having slots different seeds go in on the schedule. My schedules also minimize the chances of 5 undefeated teams and have no chance of 6 undefeated teams, where the USTA's schedules often have the latter as a possibility.100% agree with you. I like the new system and giving people an outside chance if they lose one, plus every team having equal matches, but seed the dang thing! They don't even have to tell us who's seeded where, if they're scared of releasing too much information on ratings.
In a way, I'm glad you guys didn't pull that one out. If you had beaten them 3-2, you would have finished 5th with a 4-0 record, which is kind of the nightmare scenario.Middle states vs New England this morning: three court TBs went down to 2-2 and singles 1 went the way of New England. Hanging a loss on us. We did just 5-0 PNW but that’s not going to do it unless Florida beats eastern and then A Texas loss. It was a good run.
Am I psychic?I'm going Intermountain over Texas at 4.0 men.
Texas over PNW at 3.5 men.
A̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶e̶a̶r̶t̶h̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶d̶e̶a̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶4̶.̶5̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶.̶ Mid Atlantic at 4.5 men.
Also PNW gets the win at 4.0 on the women's side after all the talk of their teams finishing in last.