At this moment, would you put Djokovic ahead of Nadal?
- Thread starter RF-18
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Spanglish72
Rookie
It helps because Rafa has an Olympic singles gold medal & Nole doesnt. Nole said himself the Olympics are equivalent to a 5th GS. Nole is making the case for Rafa, not me.
I believe it's strictly about slam totals.
Rafa 18 > Nole 16
Spanglish72
Rookie
If 2 slams a year & WTF's were held on clay this whole conversation would be a wrap. Rafa would have 25 slams & 10 WTF's.
Nadal grew up on clay. Nole on hard court.
ITF just needs to rotate surfaces for WTF & Aussie Open to make it fair for ALL players no matter what they grew up playing on as kids.
Nadal grew up on clay. Nole on hard court.
ITF just needs to rotate surfaces for WTF & Aussie Open to make it fair for ALL players no matter what they grew up playing on as kids.
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
Easy. Real slam race:
Djoko 15 > The Nadal 6
Djoko 15 > The Nadal 6
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Well Djokovic is 3-5 in US Open finals. He doesn't dominate there as he does at the AO where he's 7-0 in finals.
His record against Federer at US Open is 3-3. Although it should be 5-1 for Federer if not for the chokes during match points. LOL
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Nadal is going to surpass the Slam count just from winning Roland Garros for the next 10 years. Nadal will retire with 22 clay Slams on top of his 6 non-clay Slams for a grand total of 28 Slams. It's interesting that the second best player on clay the past 3 years in Thiem could only win a set against Nadal at RG. And even when he did, he ended up getting breadsticked twice right after.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
The fact that he continuously stopped both Federer and Djokovic from winning Roland Garros a combined 12 times is legendary in itself.
6-0 against Federer and 6-1 against Djokovic.
DerekNoleFam1
Hall of Fame
It is very close.
If Nole gets this year's USO it seals the deal imo.
His dominant years were just so good.
If Nole gets this year's USO it seals the deal imo.
His dominant years were just so good.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
What's even more interesting is that Djoko is 5-3 in slams vs Nadal outside of RG. Out of those 3 losses, only one came after 2010: USO 2013. If Nadal had continued playing like he did in summer 2013, he would likely be the undisputed GOAT right now. Unfortunately for him, he proceeded instead never to beat Djoko off clay again (9-0 Djoko since USO 2013) and even on clay, it's 4-4 in their last 8 encounters. That, coupled with the last 7 encounters lost vs Fed off clay- including 2 in slams- ( when one of his main claims to fame was owning mighty Fed in the head to head for most of his career) has been a major blow to Nadal's chances in the race for GOATness. For now at least. Not over till the last ball is hit
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Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Nadal had a huge lead when they were both young, and I don't see how getting weaker later in his career gets cancelled as less important. Novak still has to catch him in the slam race, which frankly I think he is likely to do. But he's not there yet.What's even more interesting is that Djoko is 5-3 in slams vs Nadal outside of RG. Out of those 3 losses, only one came after 2010: USO 2013. If Nadal had continued playing like he did in summer 2013, he would likely be the undisputed GOAT right now. Unfortunately for him, he proceeded instead never to beat Djoko off clay again (9-0 Djoko since USO 2013) and even on clay, it's 4-4 in their last 8 encounters. That, coupled with the last 7 encounters lost vs Fed off clay as well- including 2 in slams- ( when one of his main claims to fame was owning mighty Fed in the head to head for most of his career) has been a major blow to Nadal's chances in the race for GOATness. For now at least. Not over till the last ball is hit
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Actually, his dominant years were better. Nadal has never had a season of winning 10 tier 1 (Djoko's 2015, absolute record) or even 8 (Djoko's 2011).
Nadal's maximum is 7 in 2013 (but that didn't include 3 slams + WTF like Djoko's best season- or Fed's 2006 , it was 2 slams + 5 masters).
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Please read the rest of the thread. Djoko is already ahead of Nadal in tier 1. 5 WTF titles > 2 slams +1 master.
He's also ahead for time at #1 and he's won every tier 1 while Nadal is missing 3. Please read the recent posts as it's all been discussed.
The one thing Nadal still has is # of titles overall.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Read the thread? Like there is something new here??????????
We'll all debated all these talking points to death.
If you are saying Djokovic is ahead now, on the basis of their complete careers (so far), I repeat: In my view not yet clear.
It's damned close though. Common sense says that Novak is dominating in recent years. That does't settle the issue in my mind. Only what happens at the end of the careers will be definitive.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
The ATP itself clearly doesn't agree with that glorious status of Olympics when it comes to tennis. They have been wavering between treating it as a "super 500" (counting it as a 500 but giving 700+ points) and leaving it aside as a pure exo (no points at all). Still very cool to win it of course.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
And your view is based on...?
Based on facts: 16 slams + 5 WTF + 33 masters > 18 slams + 34 masters.
260 weeks at #1 > 196 weeks
All tier 1 won > 11 out of 14 won
But hey do not let facts get in the way of your "view"
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
No, but your man-crush will never be GOAT because weak era.
DerekNoleFam1
Hall of Fame
Nadal's 2013 season was a monster, winning 10 titles, including 2 Slams and 5 Masters.
In fairness he really should have more weeks at #1, mainly due to injuries and layoffs.
But if Nole gets another 3 Slam season this year, it pretty much raps it up for me.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Neglecting the fact Novak has had zero competition for 5 yearsAnd your view is based on...?
Based on facts: 16 slams + 5 WTF + 33 masters > 18 slams + 34 masters.
260 weeks at #1 > 196 weeks
All tier 1 won > 11 out of 14 won
But hey do not let facts get in the way of your "view"
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Good God, I've always defended you as a fair poster, but you're just being a totally arrogant jerk.And your view is based on...?
Based on facts: 16 slams + 5 WTF + 33 masters > 18 slams + 34 masters.
260 weeks at #1 > 196 weeks
All tier 1 won > 11 out of 14 won
But hey do not let facts get in the way of your "view"
I don't believe in a GOAT, have always made that clear. So do me a favor and pick an argument with someone else.
What part of "their careers are not over yet" are you too thick to understand?
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Nole has already had 2 seasons with 3 slams. Nadal has only 1 season with 3 slams: 2010 but he won only 3 masters on top that year. Nadal's 2013 may have had 10 titles overall but only 7 of those were tier 1. Djoko's 2015 had 10 TIER 1 titles (3 slams + WTF + 6 masters- an absolute record) and 2011 8 (3 slams + 5 masters)
In terms of dominant seasons, Djoko is ahead without having to add anything at all.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
This thread is not really about GOAT. It's about whether, at this point in time and based on achievements, Djokovic can be ranked ahead of Nadal. If you're not interested in the subject, why are you in this thread? (and no need for ad hominem attacks either. I gave my (objective) arguments for my position )
ETA: of course their careers are not over, I mentioned so myself but the thread is about "so far"...
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I think he had the toughest competition actually with Fed, Nadal and Murray around. Fed was the one with weak competition until Nadal broke through on clay in 2005 and Djoko on hard in 2007, with Murray on his heels in 2008.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Totally agree with that part.It's damned close though. Common sense says that Novak is dominating in recent years. That does't settle the issue in my mind. Only what happens at the end of the careers will be definitive.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Come thru and slay Mike
alexio
G.O.A.T.
be sure. it was said about slams not surfaces.. nadal has 6 slams outside RG, djoko has 9 outside AO.. winner: djoko
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
2016 was Murray's big year when he won W and WTF . Of course he didn't get to play Fed that year but he beat Fed 11 times overall (so yeah he caused problems to Fed at the time he emerged, it took time for Fed to figure out Murray, their first 8 encounters went 6-2 Murray).
Regardless, Murray is much more formidable opposition than Hewitt or Roddick.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
He wouldn't have beaten Federer any year because he's practically incapable of doing so.
Nah Murray really isn't "more formidable" than Roddick/Hewitt. Luckier perhaps considering he got easy draws for BOTH his Wimbledon wins. He's an overrated mug. Nothing to add about my other points? Explain again how Novak has had "great competition"? Lmfao.
Nadal is less than a year older than Djokovic, so he also benefits from this really weak era. Maybe he is simply not as good as Djokovic to take advantage of it?
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Again that was not true when Murray broke through, Murray lead 6-2 in their first 8 encounters. Fed managed to figure out Nadal too (off clay) recently. How crazy is that? That doesn't mean Nadal is not a great player. All of them are pretty massive.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Or maybe he peaked earlier than Novak and he's still winning RG because there's virtually nobody capable of beating him there?
Give peak Nadal 2014-2019 and he cleans house every year.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Again it WAS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN true in majors. Murray is not a great player.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
100 % true
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
A lot more consistent too. Hewitt lasted about 5min !!100 % true
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Because it's his fault he had 2 surgeries that screwed his footspeed indefinitely?
Murray is a mug who couldn't even beat Federer when he was over 30. Think Roddick/Hewitt would have fared better considering they would have an age advantage. Even with the age advantage Murray still sucked.
Nadal_Django
Legend
Murray doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Roddick/Hewitt. Players from different stratosphere.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
According to the guy who made perhaps the dumbest thread ever about Lopez having more top ten wins than Federer.Murray doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Roddick/Hewitt. Players from different stratosphere.
Are you inviting us to yours then for US Open party? It sort of reads like an invite...……..
Nadal_Django
Legend
Hewitt is Ferrer level of player, Murray was winning against Hewitt as early as 2006 when Andy was just skinny 18 y/o boy.
Hewitt was much better than Ferrer, but he Murray is a better player than him. Hewitt would not have won a slam if he peaked in 2012 and 2013
I’m not a Fed fan
Fiero425
Legend
If Hewitt had peaked in 2012, he might not have been in the top 10! He's equivalent to Goffin; slight build, no real power or weapon, and his feet do the talking!
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Djokovic is a weak era champion.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Yep because Murray had the hardest draws ever for his GS wins, lmao. Wimbledon 2013 was a joke.
killerboss
Professional
Nadal still leads slam head to head but it's definitely close right now. One more slam win against Nadal and I think Djokovic does it. Djokovic is ahead of Federer now as well for me. Better competition in his slams.
Eren
Professional
Two, UO 2013, 2017
powerangle
Legend
Again you have difficulty reading. You like to go off on tangents. I never said I owned any of the “mansions”.
The fact is some will choose “18 million” and some will choose “16 million plus a lot of other valuable items”. It isn’t as cut and dry as you make it out to be.
chimneysweep
Semi-Pro
I dont typically like GOAT arguments, but I do hope any Federer fan voting Nadal on this would also have Nadal over Federer if Nadal gets to 21 and 22 even just by RG titles if Federer were still at 20. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
No it is very cut and dried and your point was not well made.
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