GameSampras
Banned
If there is.. its very very limited. I guess no one cares much for WTA anymore with the current crap of the era talent wise it truly is compared to eras of the past?
Why is there no WTA talk on this forum?
- Thread starter GameSampras
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Purostaff
Banned
tacou
G.O.A.T.
no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise but the WTA is trash. I find it sad that I only watch a women's match if AT LEAST one of the players is attractive. even then, I usually change it.
it's almost like watching two people who just bought a tennis video game playing each other for an hour and a half. I miss Henin
it's almost like watching two people who just bought a tennis video game playing each other for an hour and a half. I miss Henin
GameSampras
Banned
no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise but the WTA is trash. I find it sad that I only watch a women's match if AT LEAST one of the players is attractive. even then, I usually change it.
it's almost like watching two people who just bought a tennis video game playing each other for an hour and a half. I miss Henin
Im with you on that one.. I miss Henin as well. I miss Clijsters at times too. I miss anyone that can at least give the WS a run for their money. Jankovic and Ivanovic? PLEASE
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
I get quite frustrated with the state of things in the women's game - it's all about power. I know that some players occasionally go to net behind short balls, but too often they cling to the baseline like it's a lifeboat. Even when Venus and Serena play doubles, they're cracking the ball like two singles stars on the same side of the net - which they are.
I do enjoy some high points, though. Elena Dementieva's amazing game is suited extremely well to the baseliner's strategy of outlasting all comers - I wonder whether anyone out there has more guts than she does - and I was really excited to watch Dinara's breakthrough year after she's shown her potential for a while. Martina Hingis has been one of the few players in the WTA lately who has been enough of a professional to be able to implement a "plan B" when she needed it, but too many other players insist on losing with more of the same when the power game isn't working.
A couple of years ago, Maria Sharapova played Serena in the Aus. Open final and it killed me. She (Maria) was clearly losing with the "batting practice" attack and had no other strategy... and she's among the best players in the world. No thanks.
I do have a sense that the women's game is on the brink of evolving beyond this arms race that it's stuck in right now and that will be exciting indeed. I don't expect a generation of female Fabrice Santoros to come along, but I think that some shrewd ladies will shake things up with multidimensional games before long. Oh, and I really miss Kim and Justine. My God, they were phenomenal!
I do enjoy some high points, though. Elena Dementieva's amazing game is suited extremely well to the baseliner's strategy of outlasting all comers - I wonder whether anyone out there has more guts than she does - and I was really excited to watch Dinara's breakthrough year after she's shown her potential for a while. Martina Hingis has been one of the few players in the WTA lately who has been enough of a professional to be able to implement a "plan B" when she needed it, but too many other players insist on losing with more of the same when the power game isn't working.
A couple of years ago, Maria Sharapova played Serena in the Aus. Open final and it killed me. She (Maria) was clearly losing with the "batting practice" attack and had no other strategy... and she's among the best players in the world. No thanks.
I do have a sense that the women's game is on the brink of evolving beyond this arms race that it's stuck in right now and that will be exciting indeed. I don't expect a generation of female Fabrice Santoros to come along, but I think that some shrewd ladies will shake things up with multidimensional games before long. Oh, and I really miss Kim and Justine. My God, they were phenomenal!
Mick
Legend
yeah but the atp players are doing the same thing.
the great match at wimbledon between federer and nadal this year, most of the points were fought from the baseline.
ferocious4hand
Semi-Pro
What's WTA?
oneguy21
Banned
Yes I know, but at least there are some players who play with variety. Tsonga for example unleashes his destruction when he comes to the net. Federer is an all court player who comes to the net quite often. Even players like Murray and Blake know when its necessary to come to the net. Women on the other hand are mostly glued to the baseline and most of em are too reluctant to move forward and finish off the point. I think women players need to work on their transition game and their net play as well. Jankovic for example hits so many of her approach shots cross court and her volleys are just absolutely eye offending.
Mick
Legend
tell me do you enjoy watching the 2006 henin-sharapova USO final, the 2007 henin-kuznetsova USO final or the 2008 serena williams-jankovic USO final ?
i like henin but her matches in the finals were not exciting like people make them out to be now that she no longer plays.
Mick
Legend
ah. but what about venus williams at this year's wimbledon ?
the commentators were saying she came to the net more times than the male players did.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
I don't remember those matches off hand, not even Serena-Jankovic.
I enjoy the Serena vs. Maria matchups
Henin-Maria
Serena-Capriati
Henin-Capriati
Jankovic-Venus
Serena-Venus
Aggie Radswanksa
Maria Kirilenko
The matches I enjoy are those that are competitive, and when these players match up you don't know who will win, but you know both will fight to the end.
And I agree, Henin's finals were usually disappointing to watch.
Serena
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Not that I wish them ill, but I just can't stand watching the Williams' matches anymore. Maria, too...
oneguy21
Banned
Venus Williams may be the only player who uses some variety, so yes I do enjoy watching her sometimes along w/ Mauresmo (if she could only find her way back into the top 10). But in general, the Williams sisters' style gets kind of boring after a while.
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
But that was entirely different. They hit incredible angles, came in to net when they could and basically fought hard.
The women's game is a war of attrition...not the same...
Mick
Legend
my favorite wta players are safina, zvonareva, and szavay.
i just love how they hit their serves and groundstrokes.
O
oneleggedcardinal
Guest
Yeah, what is that?
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
I like all of them and really hope Safina nets a big one this year. My favorites are Serena, Jankovic, Radswanksa, & Zvonereva, don't know what happened to Szavay, I was expecting good things from her and then she seemed to fall off the map. I do like her as a player though!
Leublu tennis
Legend
Thats for sure. Men's tennis is so fast that when the tv coverage switches to women's you think they have gone to slo mo.
Topaz
Legend
Like gj011 said, another typical thread with the same old bashers. Interesting how everyone complains how it is all baseline bashing, yet when Mick points out that Venus indeed came to net more than the male players, nobody says anything.
That is because of several things:
#1 - The bashers are not actually skilled enough in tennis to know what they are seeing when they watch WTA. They repeat the same things over and over again ('We miss Henin and Clijsters', 'It is all baseline bashing', 'It is all the Williams sisters', 'There is no depth', etc etc), however, by repeating those things it is clear that these critics are not actually watching the WTA.
*Yes, we miss Henin, but as Mick pointed out, her finals were not always the most exciting matches, and in her last half of year (when she was already mentally done) she was getting blown out.
*Clijsters? People miss Clijsters? Clijsters was a *baseliner*, the very type of player that people are criticizing...but I guess some peoples' memories are kind of short. I loved her, but she was also not the most mentally strong player out there, either. What exactly do people miss about her?
*The Williams sisters - everyone's favorite bashing target. It is interesting how little respect these *multiple* GS winners receive. Serena's got more than Nadal, and on more variety of surfaces. Venus's Wimbledon history is, well, historic. When they play, they are great for tennis.
*Depth. As others have pointed out, having one dominant player does not mean that the tennis is exciting. I love watching a match and not knowing who exactly is going to win. Instead of saying that this is because of a lack of depth, I think that is because there is a *ton* of depth!!!
*Yes, Sharapova is a baseline basher, just like lots of the male players out there. However, she didn't play half of the year! Can't use her as an excuse.
*If you think the WTA wasn't exciting, you weren't watching this year. We saw Safina finally battle her demons and go on a roll, a Russian sweep at the Olympics, a darkhorse make the Wimby semis (Zheng), two incredibly match-ups between the Williams sisters, and the #1 spot up for grabs. I think that's exciting, just as exciting as watching the #1 spot on the ATP finally topple.
#2 - Many of these comments are made by delusional boys who think that they can beat a WTA player. *delusional*
For the poster who says Jankovic's volleys are eye offending, you are aware that she is a mixed doubles winner at Wimbledon, right? I mean, her volleys won her a GS doubles title...do you honestly think that your assessment of her volleys is accurate?
#3 - That brings me to #3...just had to throw it in there. It hasn't surfaced yet on this thread, but I have a feeling it will. Yes, we had a #1 that didn't win a GS. You know what...it isn't the first time that has happened ON EITHER TOUR. Yet, the crap that is constantly spewed about Jankovic is nothing more than crap. Anyone who actually *follows* the WTA saw a ton of improvement in her this year. She has openly stated that she *loves* to play lots of matches, so she does. Yet she is criticized for this by the same people who criticize that too many players pull out and/or don't show up! Catch 22 don't you think? She has had some great battles with Venus, and is one of the best movers and fighters on the tour. She got her ranking one way - RESULTS. That's the only way to get to #1. She earned it, so she's got it, and she's been very clear that a GS is on her 'to do' list in 2009 and that she is working hard for it.
The WTA is never going to be the ATP, yet that doesn't mean there isn't excellent tennis being played by amazing athletes.
That is because of several things:
#1 - The bashers are not actually skilled enough in tennis to know what they are seeing when they watch WTA. They repeat the same things over and over again ('We miss Henin and Clijsters', 'It is all baseline bashing', 'It is all the Williams sisters', 'There is no depth', etc etc), however, by repeating those things it is clear that these critics are not actually watching the WTA.
*Yes, we miss Henin, but as Mick pointed out, her finals were not always the most exciting matches, and in her last half of year (when she was already mentally done) she was getting blown out.
*Clijsters? People miss Clijsters? Clijsters was a *baseliner*, the very type of player that people are criticizing...but I guess some peoples' memories are kind of short. I loved her, but she was also not the most mentally strong player out there, either. What exactly do people miss about her?
*The Williams sisters - everyone's favorite bashing target. It is interesting how little respect these *multiple* GS winners receive. Serena's got more than Nadal, and on more variety of surfaces. Venus's Wimbledon history is, well, historic. When they play, they are great for tennis.
*Depth. As others have pointed out, having one dominant player does not mean that the tennis is exciting. I love watching a match and not knowing who exactly is going to win. Instead of saying that this is because of a lack of depth, I think that is because there is a *ton* of depth!!!
*Yes, Sharapova is a baseline basher, just like lots of the male players out there. However, she didn't play half of the year! Can't use her as an excuse.
*If you think the WTA wasn't exciting, you weren't watching this year. We saw Safina finally battle her demons and go on a roll, a Russian sweep at the Olympics, a darkhorse make the Wimby semis (Zheng), two incredibly match-ups between the Williams sisters, and the #1 spot up for grabs. I think that's exciting, just as exciting as watching the #1 spot on the ATP finally topple.
#2 - Many of these comments are made by delusional boys who think that they can beat a WTA player. *delusional*
For the poster who says Jankovic's volleys are eye offending, you are aware that she is a mixed doubles winner at Wimbledon, right? I mean, her volleys won her a GS doubles title...do you honestly think that your assessment of her volleys is accurate?
#3 - That brings me to #3...just had to throw it in there. It hasn't surfaced yet on this thread, but I have a feeling it will. Yes, we had a #1 that didn't win a GS. You know what...it isn't the first time that has happened ON EITHER TOUR. Yet, the crap that is constantly spewed about Jankovic is nothing more than crap. Anyone who actually *follows* the WTA saw a ton of improvement in her this year. She has openly stated that she *loves* to play lots of matches, so she does. Yet she is criticized for this by the same people who criticize that too many players pull out and/or don't show up! Catch 22 don't you think? She has had some great battles with Venus, and is one of the best movers and fighters on the tour. She got her ranking one way - RESULTS. That's the only way to get to #1. She earned it, so she's got it, and she's been very clear that a GS is on her 'to do' list in 2009 and that she is working hard for it.
The WTA is never going to be the ATP, yet that doesn't mean there isn't excellent tennis being played by amazing athletes.
gj011
Banned
Excellent post. Thank you.
Also all these Jankovic bashers and Clijsters lovers somehow forget that Clijsters was also slamless number 1. Same applies to Mauresmo.
So everyone who likes the ATP (world tour) better is a bigot, right?
The WTA players today just don't have as much personality or intrigue as many of the players on the men's side. There were a few interesting women's matches this year, but most people are turned off when they see another nameless russian player on one or both sides of the net.
The bottom line is that the WTA needs more exciting american players to make it more interesting.
gj011
Banned
Typical. Barely more than 50 posts and already making stupid comments. Which banned poster are you?
I would never claim something like this.
Also who cares if tennis is exciting for Americans. It is not Russian and Serbian players fault that there is no good American player beside WS. This is not much different on the ATP side as well.
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All-rounder
Legend
if its not henin or the williams sisters then its not interesting
SempreSami
Hall of Fame
Hypocrite.
miniRafa386
Hall of Fame
cha ching
yea but that was opposing gamestyles: wise, elegant craftsman vs. new kid on the block. also, it went 9-7 in the 5th, and womens tennis only goes 3 sets. also, the quality of the ball is significantly better in mens tennis than womens tennis, adding to that, the shot making is better in mens tennis. look at federer's geniusness. no woman can do that at that level without shrieking. look at nadals heavy, heavy topspin that his opponents are struggling to just make contact with. i dont see that in womens tennis.
frankly speaking, most women tennis players dont have very good technique, their grunts sound very fake, and the ball is going 1/2 the speed of the mens game.
hahahahaha
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
I agree there is quite an army of WTA bashers and haters. I'm not exactly sure why though. Among the excuses I've seen from that crowd:
This is a very interesting time on the WTA. There's no true dominant player now while there are quite a few contenders, including a mix of proven and those on the verge of proving it. Nobody has any idea who is going to come out on top in 2009 with Serena, Venus, Sharapova, Ivanovic, Kuznetsova as wild cards while you have rising stars Jankovic, Safina, Zvonareva, Radwanska making their presence felt. Dementieva's Olympic win puts her in discussion for a major despite being 27 now. Wozniacki can definitely make her way up while Chakvetadze, Golovin, and Vaidisova are capable of returning up there. I'm not even discussing Hantuchova, Schnyder, Zheng, Li, Bartoli, and a list of other solid players the WTA has to offer.
If you want to watch the quartet win EVERYTHING on the ATP (Nadal/Federer/Djokovic/Murray), fine. I like both tours and feel it's in the interest of tennis fans for BOTH tours to do well.
- The women are so fat and chunky (yet they still can outrun 99% of the haters here and they're making money while you haters whine)
- The women are mostly not good on the eyes (and men like Stepanek are? even then, NOT a real reason to condemn the WTA)
- Mindless ball-bashing (uh, that's symptomatic on ATP too..*cough*Nadal and the Spanish Armada*cough*)
- Tired of watching the Williams' sisters winning (in 2008 Serena only won 4 titles, Venus 3 while Jankovic and Safina each won 4, Dementieva the Olympics, etc.). Meanwhile, where was the complaining about Federer when he won 14 titles in 2006? Or when he went 82-4 in 2005?
- Henin (whom many folks heavily disliked) retired
- They hug the baseline all day (most of the girls have solid shots off both wings, unlike folks like Karlovic)
- The girls should play topless or in bikinis to get more viewers (utterly classless and disrespectful attitudes)
This is a very interesting time on the WTA. There's no true dominant player now while there are quite a few contenders, including a mix of proven and those on the verge of proving it. Nobody has any idea who is going to come out on top in 2009 with Serena, Venus, Sharapova, Ivanovic, Kuznetsova as wild cards while you have rising stars Jankovic, Safina, Zvonareva, Radwanska making their presence felt. Dementieva's Olympic win puts her in discussion for a major despite being 27 now. Wozniacki can definitely make her way up while Chakvetadze, Golovin, and Vaidisova are capable of returning up there. I'm not even discussing Hantuchova, Schnyder, Zheng, Li, Bartoli, and a list of other solid players the WTA has to offer.
If you want to watch the quartet win EVERYTHING on the ATP (Nadal/Federer/Djokovic/Murray), fine. I like both tours and feel it's in the interest of tennis fans for BOTH tours to do well.
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phoenicks
Professional
Whoop Thou Ass
Why is it that people are always complaining about modern tennis being baseline bashing, and that S&V is dead and so on? And then when a WTA thread like this comes up, suddenly ATP tennis is exciting and great tennis with alot of net play, and only WTA tennis is baseline bashing? Can't have it both ways. I watch the tennis channel regularly and I don't think there's much difference between the styles within ATP and WTA play other than the serve is a much bigger factor on the ATP.
Now I like ATP better because they are the best players in the world, they are more graceful, move better, hit harder, hit with more spin, etc. I like the modern game and enjoy watching both, but simply prefer ATP because its at a higher level.
Now I like ATP better because they are the best players in the world, they are more graceful, move better, hit harder, hit with more spin, etc. I like the modern game and enjoy watching both, but simply prefer ATP because its at a higher level.
phoenicks
Professional
raiden, you are dead on here, and to add on, quite a lot of WTA can't even volley to save their life, and point construction is way better in ATP
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Aldi Patron
Rookie
The reason I dislike watching the WTA is the same reason I don't like watching WNBA basketball: It's hard to get into the sport when there are so many players who are better than them.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Great comment. And unfortunately not that far from the truth.
Commentators, especially the politically correct ones on ESPN and CBS, say a lot of things.
We really need 2 or 3 who have the same game as Henin. And I don't see that happening. The women's game is ground and pound - there's no reason to learn the other shots - you can make a good living - look at Bartoli - with groundstrokes and nothing else. Good nutrition is even optional...
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Wonderful post!
miniRafa386
Hall of Fame
lets just make this perfectly clear: i am a nadal fan, but i am not a nadal freak, like nadal freak here on tw. i am a big federer fan as well, so you cant call me a ******* or a ******* or any ****. neutral on the rivalry.
one prase to completly end discussion on this comment: wimbledon final 08. probably the most amount of mind-FULL ball bashing, something you dont see in womens mind-LESS ball bashing.
we're not criticizing baseline play, considering thats what the modern game is now, we are just criticizing the lack of thought that is used in the womens game now. there is very little evidence of point construction in the womens game, when it is saturated in the men's game. the only player who i can see mixing up spins, paces, power, etc, like an atp player, is mauresmo, and she sucks right now, so its not fun.
thats my 2 cents again.
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TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
He said delusional bashers. That doesn't mean bigot.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
The whole post is great, but these bolded parts stick out, especially the part about Henin. She was hated on tennis message boards worldwide, and now all this love? It's bizarre.
I enjoy the sport. I'm not interested in total domination. I deal with it, but variety is the slice of life.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
So true......
Okazaki Fragment
Semi-Pro
I'm just annoyed that they are awarded the same amount of prize money even though they play 33% less tennis.
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