Sounds about right. Probably trying to give Nadal fans a bad name here. Same goes with smoledman and possibly a few others for the Federer fanbase.
Nadal OUT of 2013 Australian Open
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Sounds about right. Probably trying to give Nadal fans a bad name here. Same goes with smoledman and possibly a few others for the Federer fanbase.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Yup, that is my guess as well, no Nadal fan would be so joyful at hearing the news that he will skip AO after being out for so long already.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Not sure I agree with that, I have criticized Nadal plenty of times (and post here very often) and so did Towser (though to a lesser degree maybe) and I can't remember her calling me or him a hater (could be wrong though but I have no recollection of it happening) and in general I don't remember her using that word often.
No doubt, the hero worship sometimes goes way overboard on this forum, of course none of them are perfect (or even come off as being all that smart and/or educated), they're just jocks who are extremely gifted at tennis.
Yeah I can see your point but the majority of posters here rarely criticize their favourite players and I doubt that's something unique to tennis fanbases either.
Right, but it's one thing to get carried away in a response to a troll/**** on occasion and another one to have a clear agenda and post same "hateful" things all the time.
Now, that (losing her cool) may not excuse her from posting what she did but I'd be a hypocrite if I held that against her because it happens to me fairly often (especially against Sampras die hards lately).
Well, I doubt Crissti would deny Fed is a great player and you usually can debate with her on that and similar topics (say Nadal compared to Borg) no problem.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
NSK aka 6-3, 6-1, 6-0, and Clarky21 are not Nadal fans in my opinion.
I agree. A stomach virus is something that'll knock a few days off of his training regimen. He's got the best doctors in the world at his disposal and the body of a professional athlete. It's most likely not going to sideline him for very long, and he's been back training for weeks already, hasn't he? When a player misses an event due to a stomach virus, it's usually because the virus hit just as the tournament is about to begin, not weeks in advance. I'm willing to bet it's the knees that are the core issue here. Regardless, I'd love to see him back on tour. Tennis isn't the same without him.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I don't think NSK is human. It's some sort of trolling program someone created
Clarky21
Banned
How could a human possibly keep up with so many different accounts? Has to be a troll-bot.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Sure, a nobody is a bit of an exaggeration. The main point is: he was not a top 10, he was not a top player yet when AO 2007 happened, so I do have a point posting that since Djoko became a top player, Fed hasn't taken a set off him at AO. It's just a shame that that point happens to bother you so much but it's a fact. Djoko became a top 10 player in March 2007 (March 19th to be exact) and actually he got his first big victory after beating Rafa in Miami , so it is perfectly legit to evaluate their rivalry from that time. You could isolate 2011 though by commenting that it is the only season that Djoko led the head to head vs Rafa in the history of their rivalry. Yeah, why not? 1 out of 6 is better than nothing for sure.
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Hey Joe - hope you are well mate.
I'd like to see Murray v Roger again at the AO as well. Although it's six and 2 threes as to whether I want Murray to face Roger or Nole in the semis.
I'm pretty sure I know which seed you'd like Roger to draw in the semis!
It's a complete bummer that Rafa is not in the draw. With Rafa, both sides would be equally challenging. Now, it's whoever gets Murray is at a big disadvantage. That sucks.
Clarky21
Banned
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
How could a human possibly keep up with so many different accounts? Has to be a troll-bot.
A cutting edge example of AUI - artificial un-inteligence
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
True he wasn't a top player but the rest of 2007 proved he was. If he had not player Federer....I think he may went on to win 2007 AO. He did reach the IW final against Rafa and beat Rafa at Miami 2007....then went on to beat Canas. His preperation for 2007 must have been pretty good....it still a legit top win.
The times Djokovic played Federer were when he was at his best. 2008 he played his best Australian ever....dominated everyone till Tsonga. 2011 same...but got a crappy match against Murray....he got Federer because he overcomed him in the 2010 US Semi.
2009 and 2010 where he wilted to Roddick and Tsonga because of heat. Had he made the Semi.....I would have no doubt Federer would have blasted him off the court. Federer had him mentally ever since the US Open....Djokovic can't get confidence over his losses to him.
Djokovic was fortunate to face Federer when he had the upper hand in belief and form. He did not make it to Federer when he was mentally frail and Federer punching bag in the slams.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Crisstti: don't sell Djoko short even if you don't like him. Maybe it will end up being Fed vs another rookie out there (Tomic?? Ha ha) in the final but Djoko is still the overwhelming favorite to make the final (having won 3 out of the last 5 editions) and if it's him in the final (or semi), you can bet that Fed won't win this AO. I think it would be a bit premature and foolish for any Fed fan to start celebrating at this point...
Nadal only won 1 AO in his entire career, so he's just another 1 of 128 player. Also, even if he chooses to play, he could lose in the 2nd round just like he did at Wimbledon. You never know...that's why they play the game.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
As legit as it is, it is not a win vs a top player. And yes, Djoko became a top player not long afterwards, the key word being AFTER here.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lol oh-so true.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
But, it is.
Djokovic proved himself in 2007. And anyone, who has a bit of a tennis knowledge would know, that stringing it together, doesn't happen overnight. And that the preparation before the season is a big part of that too.
Those words just prove to me, that you remain clueless about the sport, despite followig closely Nadal. You hang on technicalities, but technically Djokovic's successful 2007 started with a win at one of the warmup tournaments leading to AO. Also, in 2006 he posted results, that brought him to #15. Some of those results (even some matches) suggested, that his ranking doesn't reflect his current ability.
I have noticed, that you are content with Nadal being a clay GOAT (for whatever reason, since that is not your achievement and you certainly do not share any tennis related virtues with him) and have toned it down with your tennis "arguments". since the unexpected departure of Nadal from the tour. Please, keep it that way, because every time you try to think about anythig tennis related, you fail miseraly.
Oh, and, by the way, on a given day #15 in the world can give hell to the top dogs. Especially on surfaces that are suited to his game. Hell, even #100 can do that.
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cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
At least he is actually playing the slam and has a chance. Better than where Nadal is right now. :twisted:
I too think Djokovic will win the AO and if not him Murray. But with Fed you can never count him out. You don't know these days if he is going to show up in brilliant mode for a couple of weeks or in ******** mode as he is getting older.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You are hopeless.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I could say it another way if you prefer: a player who had very little slam experience and who had done nothing in slams except for 1 quarter on clay and who had never won a match at AO (in previous years) at the tender age of 19. It's against that type of player that Fed won that AO match you're so proud of. And everybody could see the difference when Fed got to play top 5 Djoko on that type of slow hard court: Canada 2007 and AO 2008.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
So what your real contention is that peak Fed was an utter fraud beating up on "mugs" like Roddick, Hewitt, Gonzalez, Youzhny, Blake and once the next generation came along(Nadal, Djokovic, Murray) he was toast.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
wow no, this only stemmed from my statement that since Djoko became a top player, Fed didn't take a set off him at AO. I didn't think that would trigger such a controversy!! Seems like a pretty innocuous statement to me. Overall, Djoko is a damn good hard court player but he'll probably never match Fed's achievements. Still, he owns him at AO and that's the best a player has done to Fed on hard in his era. So kudos to Djoko for that.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
A number of close sets in those 2 matches(2008, 2011 semis).
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
to be honest, Canada was a big win but in terms of scoreline (7-6 2-6 7-6) wasn't a dominating win or anything. Even in the AO, all 3 sets could have gone either way, just like the US Open in 2007.
I would agree that Djokovic wasn't quite the finished article in early 2007, it was around Miami that he came into his own. But also I think in 2009 and 2010 any match up between Federer and Djokovic at the AO would have been 4 or possibly 3 set wins for Federer. In 2011 I think Novak truly passed him in terms of being a consistant HC player (especially at the AO) but in 2008 I think it was just a result that went Novak's way - it didn't actually signal a changing of the guard.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I'm not denying it. It's still a noticeable achievement not to lose a set vs a guy like Fed in a slam on hard (twice). Not many people can boast of doing that I believe. (On other surfaces either btw)
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
The change of the guard is an interesting question. As soon as Canada 2007, it was obvious Djoko would become a serious contender on hard but I'm not sure which match I would pick for official change of the guard (on hard, I hope we're clear about that). I would say the USO win over Fed in 2010 was pretty massive but it didn't feel like a true change of the guard. If I had to choose one, I'd have to pick the WTF final, a straight set win at Fed's pet event, that really felt symbolical to me. We'll see from future results how much of a change of guard it truly was...
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
well what i mean is at the AO. Djokovic has won 2 in straight sets but I think after the 2008 match I would still stink Federer would be able to beat him in 2009 and 2010. The 2011 win though feels like a point where Djokovic has proved he is now superior to Federer at the AO.
In terms of HC generally, you could be right. Federer seemed to have both sets at the WTF in the bag but couldn't win either. Djokovic did beat Federer once before in Basel indoors and that felt big at the time (even though it was a 500) Federer is getting older though.
But to be honest, the changing of the guard as best HC player goes has already taken place - Federer last HC slam win as AO 2010, since then Novak has won 3 HC slams and made 5 finals overall to no titles or finals from Federer.Difficult to pick a point in the Federer-Djokovic rivalry, maybe USO 2010, though federer has had some good HC wins since then (WTF 2010, Cinci 2012) but none in a HC slam.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I agree that the change happened mainly in slams. Last time Fed beat Djoko in a hard court slam was USO 2009. Since then, Djoko has beaten him every time they have met at both AO and USO (3 times in all) and Fed has become vulnerable to other players as well. Basel is not that big an event and it was a hard fought win. WTF has considerable more impact. This is really an event Fed had extreme domination over. Remember how epic it was for Nalby to snatch that win in 2005. The way Djoko won was incredible. Going way down in each set and coming back each time. Fed looked more helpless than ever to me.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
It doesn't matter, how you would say it.
If you are are going to discard Federer's win, because Djokovic "wan't quite there" surely the same can be said about Nadal vs. Djokovic before 2011, no?
But I noticed that you didn't comment on that.
By the way, you didn't address anything, that I have written. Didn't exlpain how a mug (well, nobody :roll: )like Djokovic became #5 without the quality, necessary for that.).
zagor
Bionic Poster
That's an interesting conclusion you got from her posts, pretty telling, isn't it
?Anyway, ********* has 17 slams, it's a harsh fact of life but you just have to deal with it.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I didn't address it because it's off topic. I am not "discarding" Fed's win. I am just observing that Fed has hit a wall with Djoko at AO since Djoko has become the top player he's become. He was on his way up at AO 2007 but he wasn't there yet. It seems obvious that in the future, Fed would never score such an easy win vs Djoko, especially at AO.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
The thing that is interesting is Federer's natural game gives Djokovic a lot of problems at the US Open but the last 2 times they have played there Nole has managed to save match points and scrap it out. Federer has gotten to the stage where more and more often he loses the matches that can go either way. Same situation with he WTF. It's the way he lost more than anything else.I mean he lost in the RR in 08 and the semis in 09 but the year though he wasn't impressive in most matches he played, in the final he was doing well in both sets and couldn't see it out.
A lot of Federer vs Djokovic matches have been very closely fought with one man just grabbing the vital points or points. Recently this has tipped more towards Djokovic. He already turned around a disadvantage at the US Open where but for two points he could have been 0-5 in meetings with Federer, now he has maybe turned it around at the WTF.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You are such a sad person.
Not only didn't Federer look helpless in the majority of those matches but it is more or less generally thought,that several times Federer let Djokovic off the hook, despite being way past his peak.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Oh, really? :roll:
Questioning the very same logic that you use to draw your conclusions ontopic is offtopic?
By selectively choosing timespans? Sure.
You cannot observe anything of importance.
Crisstti
Legend
Well, I knew posters like Zagor and Towser would understand how this kind of thing goes
There is "anything negative" and there's assuring he on some sort of mythical so called silent ban because he's out injured... and yet I haven't even called you a hater.
There is "anything negative" and there's assuring he on some sort of mythical so called silent ban because he's out injured... and yet I haven't even called you a hater.
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