Best Poly to Soften Stringbed in Poly-Poly Hybrid

soulfree914

Rookie
After experiencing quick notching and fraying in a poly main - multi crosses (mostly NRG2) setup, I've started to wonder if I could use a poly in the crosses instead that has relatively good pocketing (to soften the overall stringbed), power, and slickness to it that would work well in a poly-poly mix.

So far, I have only tried Wilson Revolve in the crosses while the main string was Volkl Cyclone.
I am going to try Ice Code next in the following setup:

- Solinco Confidential 1.20 M + Ice Code 1.20 C
- Alu Power Soft 1.25 M + Ice Code 1.25 C

What is your favorite poly-poly setup that feels and plays better than a full-bed single poly?
 

Purestriker

Legend
After experiencing quick notching and fraying in a poly main - multi crosses (mostly NRG2) setup, I've started to wonder if I could use a poly in the crosses instead that has relatively good pocketing (to soften the overall stringbed), power, and slickness to it that would work well in a poly-poly mix.

So far, I have only tried Wilson Revolve in the crosses while the main string was Volkl Cyclone.
I am going to try Ice Code next in the following setup:

- Solinco Confidential 1.20 M + Ice Code 1.20 C
- Alu Power Soft 1.25 M + Ice Code 1.25 C

What is your favorite poly-poly setup that feels and plays better than a full-bed single poly?
Luxilon Element
 

soulfree914

Rookie
I hear a lot about Ghostwire and Cream as crosses.
(y) Just looked up some old posts about those strings. Looks like for a soft string, tension maintenance isn't too bad on the Cream according to TWU stats. Haven't heard of Ghost Wire. How does it compare to Cream?
 

Happi

Hall of Fame
(y) Just looked up some old posts about those strings. Looks like for a soft string, tension maintenance isn't too bad on the Cream according to TWU stats. Haven't heard of Ghost Wire. How does it compare to Cream?

There is so much info if you do a search. You can search for member g4driver and the string.

Edit, here is a good thread about GW

 
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ryushen21

Legend
Ghost Wire 1.22 for sure. I like element too but it's not as soft as GW. Some people find GW too launch and prefer Cream.
 

blai212

Hall of Fame
i didnt find element to be soft enough for me…much preferred firestorm, same color and similar feel. Polaris GW cream PT Air are also good contenders to consider. It’s all about finding the right balance of comfort, feel, durability. The most important traits of a good cross is tension maintenance with good combination of comfort touch feel but there will be tradeoffs.
 

Trip

Hall of Fame
Have played both Cream and Ghost Wire as crosses. All other variables held equal, Cream feels about 25-30% softer than GW, with a bit deeper pocketing and slightly longer dwell time. GW, conversely, plays a bit stiffer and more lively, and also has moderately better tension maintenance in my experience. Both are excellent choices and are more a matter of personal taste and how much of either set of qualities you need, given the frame, main string, main tension, your playing preferences, etc.

For additional info, search out @g4driver's posts on Cream, GW and Poly Tour Air, as he has much experience with all of them.
 

FoldingChair

Semi-Pro
Haven’t had the chance to try it yet as a hybrid but look into the head lynx touch playtest thread. Lots of folks in there are saying it’d be a great cross in a poly poly
 

Humbi_HTX

Semi-Pro
GW 19g is a great cross string, as soft if not softer than syn.gut in thicker gages.

PTPAir is super soft for 17g
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Don't spend a lot on crosses. Most of the effect and feel will come from the mains. I use MSV CoFocus often as a cross.
You could also try Volkl VSquare as a main. It feels like nylon. It has the same stiffness as Prince Synthetic Gut.
 

soulfree914

Rookie
v-square/ice code
black widow/ice code
hyper g soft/ice code
I'm having a good experience with Ice Code in the crosses. Not the softest stringbed as Ice Code is still firm, but it does provide a nice pocketing feel with seemingly more energy return than a full-bed shaped poly.
 

HitMoreBHs

Professional
My main go-to round, soft co-poly for crosses (if comfort is the priority) is HEAD Lynx 1.25 (yellow or green). Plays similar to Polytour Pro, marginally firmer than Polytour Air. More resistant to wear breakage, livelier and less muted than Isospeed Cream.

Lynx tension maintenance is average for a soft co-poly. It’s also very reasonably priced, especially in Europe. It’s one the few co-polys that I can play over 20 hours, right until it breaks and remains comfortable to the end. No surprise that HEAD uses this as their default for factory strung racquets, given its easy playability.

Ghostwire is great, but it’s firmer than any of the above. If you want max comfort, this may not be soft enough.

Grapplesnake Irukandji is very soft and comfortable, but I found it far too muted, dead and rather poor for tension maintenance. If I have to string Irukandji 4-6 lbs higher to compensate for the tension loss, might as well go with a firmer string.
 
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fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
After experiencing quick notching and fraying in a poly main - multi crosses (mostly NRG2) setup, I've started to wonder if I could use a poly in the crosses instead that has relatively good pocketing (to soften the overall stringbed), power, and slickness to it that would work well in a poly-poly mix.

So far, I have only tried Wilson Revolve in the crosses while the main string was Volkl Cyclone.
I am going to try Ice Code next in the following setup:

- Solinco Confidential 1.20 M + Ice Code 1.20 C
- Alu Power Soft 1.25 M + Ice Code 1.25 C

What is your favorite poly-poly setup that feels and plays better than a full-bed single poly?
I'm not a poly player myself, but I generally don't string poly hybrids for others using a multi cross. That string type is prone to becoming frayed by the poly mains like you're finding with the NRG2 and given their cost, they generally don't deliver too much bang for our buck. I usually only put multi into a racquet in a full bed for somebody who already uses that string type or when somebody needs to switch from stiffer string to a more arm-friendly layout.

Gosen OG Sheep Micro seems to be a pretty slick and durable cross. It works great in many of the poly hybrids I install for locals who use me for re-strings. If you substitute this syn. gut for a multi in a poly hybrid, I'd say expect to drop tension by a couple pounds with the Gosen compared with the multi. OGSM is among the most firm syn. guts I've sampled.
 

Trip

Hall of Fame
Ghostwire is great, but it’s firmer than any of the above. If you want max comfort, this may not be soft enough.
USRSA numbers appear to indicate the opposite:
String
Gauge
Stiffness (lb/in.)
Tension loss (lbs)​
Head Lynx 16
1.25​
198​
21.06​
Head Lynx 17
1.21​
191​
20.68​
Head Lynx 18
1.17​
184​
20.93​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 16
1.27​
188​
16.27​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 17
1.22​
181​
14.77​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 18
1.16​
167​
18.69​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 19
1.1​
146​
23.77​
That said, playability and durability is another matter, and I haven't played Lynx enough to make a call there...
 

g4driver

Legend
USRSA numbers appear to indicate the opposite:
String
Gauge
Stiffness (lb/in.)
Tension loss (lbs)​
Head Lynx 16
1.25​
198​
21.06​
Head Lynx 17
1.21​
191​
20.68​
Head Lynx 18
1.17​
184​
20.93​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 16
1.27​
188​
16.27​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 17
1.22​
181​
14.77​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 18
1.16​
167​
18.69​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 19
1.1​
146​
23.77​
That acknowledged, on-court playability and durability is another matter entirely. I haven't played Lynx as a cross in equivalent setups enough to make a qualified call there...

The 1.22 GW tension maintenance is outstanding. For $60 a reel it is hard to beat for a 181 Stiffness measurement. I didn't have the numbers you posted but my elbow has been telling me GW is outstanding for awhile.

Any chance you could post the same chart for:

YPTA 1.25 mm Isospeed Cream 1.28mm Lux Element 1.25 & 1.30mm vs GW in 1.22 & 1.27mm

Love to see that chart if you have time to post it..
 

HitMoreBHs

Professional
USRSA numbers appear to indicate the opposite:
String
Gauge
Stiffness (lb/in.)
Tension loss (lbs)​
Head Lynx 16
1.25​
198​
21.06​
Head Lynx 17
1.21​
191​
20.68​
Head Lynx 18
1.17​
184​
20.93​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 16
1.27​
188​
16.27​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 17
1.22​
181​
14.77​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 18
1.16​
167​
18.69​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 19
1.1​
146​
23.77​
That said, playability and durability is another matter, and I haven't played Lynx enough to make a call there...

Thanks for posting the table. I do like objective numbers, but they don’t always reflect how the strings play and feel (at least in my case). As a comparison, HyperG soft has similar measured stiffness to Lynx but does not provide the same comfortable hitting experience. Feel is highly subjective, hence why we all have our own take on what works for each of us.

Also, should mention that I’m a big fan of Ghost Wire as a round poly cross and find it a comfortable string to use, too. However, it doesn’t play as soft as the numbers would indicate.
 
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avocadoz

Professional
The 1.22 GW tension maintenance is outstanding. For $60 a reel it is hard to beat for a 181 Stiffness measurement. I didn't have the numbers you posted but my elbow has been telling me GW is outstanding for awhile.

Any chance you could post the same chart for:

YPTA 1.25 mm Isospeed Cream 1.28mm Lux Element 1.25 & 1.30mm vs GW in 1.22 & 1.27mm

Love to see that chart if you have time to post it..
Solinco Hyper-G Soft 16L was listed on TW as 172, which is softer than GW's 181. I don't see a need for something like GW as a cross when a full bed of Hyper-G Soft is just as if not more comfortable with better spin potential, control, and tension maintenance.
 

HitMoreBHs

Professional
Solinco Hyper-G Soft 16L was listed on TW as 172. I don't see a need for something like GW as a cross when a full bed of Hyper-G Soft is just as if not more comfortable with better spin potential, control, and tension maintenance.
Some players prefer a round cross in hybrid with a shaped main (me included!). Pick your weapon, or poison as it were!
 

g4driver

Legend
Solinco Hyper-G Soft 16L was listed on TW as 172, which is softer than GW's 181. I don't see a need for something like GW as a cross when a full bed of Hyper-G Soft is just as if not more comfortable with better spin potential, control, and tension maintenance.

Great! I'll let TW know they should stop selling softer polys like Lux Element , Cream, and YPTA. :-D

Back to reality. Just because you don't see a need doesn't mean a need doesn't exist. GW works well as cross with edged, rough and NG Stings.

I have plenty of clients with unique needs. It's great HGS in a full bed works for you and your certainly entitled to your opinion, but I string for several hundred clients, including current Power 5 collegiate players who have different needs than you.

I stock 75+ different strings so it doesn't matter to me what a client uses as long as they are happy with my service. By the way I am the only client of mine who uses HGS in my own frames after I playtesed HGS and then playtested HGS vs HGS/GW..

All documented in the HGS playtest thread . ;)
 
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avocadoz

Professional
Great! I'll let TW know they should stop selling softer polys like Lux Element , Cream, and YPTA(y)

Back to reality. Just because you don't see a need doesn't mean a need doesn't exist.

I have plenty of clients with unique needs. It's great HGS in a full bed works for you and your certainly entitled to your opinion, but I string for several hundred clients, including current Power 5 collegiate players who have different needs than you.

I stock 75+ different strings so it doesn't matter to me what a client uses as long as they are happy with my service. By the way I am the only client of mine who uses HGS in my own frames after I playtesed HGS and then playtested HGS vs HGS/GW..

All documented in the HGS playtest thread . ;)
So you prefer full bed HGS over HGS/GW hybrid? Which setup felt more comfortable?
 

g4driver

Legend
So you prefer full bed HGS over HGS/GW hybrid?

no opposite.. HGS1.25mm / GW 1.22mm seems to provide more spin and holds tension slightly better than a full bed of HGS 1.25mm. I don't care what clients want as long as I don't hurt them, and I can get their strings to last them 12 hours minimum.. I am all about keeping clients happy.

I used VCT 1.30mm for 8 years and switched to HGS/GW after the HGS playtest.. GW like Head Velocity just makes a lot of strings better.

more clients using VS Gut 1.30mm / GW 1.27mm than any other NG/ poly cross combo. I string Velocity as a cross more than any other string.. And GW 1.22mm is my most popular smooth poly cross.
 

g4driver

Legend
Thanks for posting the table. I do like objective numbers, but they don’t always reflect how the strings play and feel (at least in my case). As a comparison, HyperG soft has similar measured stiffness to Lynx but does not provide the same comfortable hitting experience. Feel is highly subjective, hence why we all have our own take on what works for each of us.

Also, should mention that I’m a big fan of Ghost Wire as a round poly cross and find it a comfortable string to use, too. However, it doesn’t play as soft as the numbers would indicate.

Agree that numbers don't always reflect how a player feels a string. Numbers give a starting place for many. And temps play a big role in how comfortable or uncomfortable polys feel.

50 degrees and under , all these polys feel like boards to me.
 

Trip

Hall of Fame
@HitMoreBHs - Good counterpoint regarding actual playtesting experience versus numbers alone.

@g4driver - Here you go. I also included others mentioned in this thread as well as some perennial favorites that aren't necessarily softer, but good for comparison (MSV CF, YTPF, SPPP, Revolve, etc)
StringGaugeStiffness (lb/in.)Tension loss (lbs)
Genesis Black Magic 18
1.18​
167​
21.75​
Head Lynx 16
1.25​
198​
21.06​
Head Lynx 17
1.21​
191​
20.68​
Head Lynx 18
1.17​
184​
20.93​
Isospeed Cream 16L
1.31​
243​
17.53​
Isospeed Cream 17
1.29​
171​
17.16​
Luxilon Element 125 16L
1.24​
194​
19.74​
Luxilon Element 130 16
1.3​
201​
17.09​
MSV Co Focus 1.18 17L
1.16​
189​
15.79​
MSV Co Focus 1.23 16L
1.17​
188​
14.57​
MSV Co Focus 1.27 16
1.25​
198​
15.83​
Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.18 18
1.19​
239​
15.65​
Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.23 17
1.25​
233​
17.48​
Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.28 16
1.27​
260​
15.98​
Tecnifibre Ice Code 16
1.3​
225​
19.23​
Tecnifibre Ice Code 17
1.25​
211​
15.84​
Tecnifibre Red Code Wax 1.20
1.2​
174​
17.64​
Tecnifibre Red Code Wax 1.25
1.28​
191​
16.5​
Tecnifibre Red Code Wax 1.30
1.32​
199​
16.94​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 16
1.27​
188​
16.27​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 17
1.22​
181​
14.77​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 18
1.16​
167​
18.69​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 19
1.1​
146​
23.77​
Tourna Black Zone 17
1.23​
202​
16.5​
Tourna Black Zone 18
1.23​
198​
15.94​
Wilson Revolve 16
1.29​
179​
19.18​
Wilson Revolve 17
1.23​
174​
19.16​
Yonex Polytour Air 125 16L
1.23​
157​
22.73​
Yonex Polytour Fire 120 17
1.2​
176​
19.78​
Yonex Polytour Fire 125 16L
1.25​
181​
18.92​
Yonex Polytour Fire 130 16
1.27​
181​
21.06​
Interesting to see some oddities, such as Cream 16L's 243 stiffness, which falls in line with the point about experience vs. raw numbers...
 

g4driver

Legend
@Trip thanks much

Can you check the numbers for Cream ? They seem off. Cream is sold in 1.23 mm and 1.28mm, not 1.29 and 1.31mm and the TW database shows the stiffness quite a bit lower for 1.28mm..
 
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Trip

Hall of Fame
@g4driver - Very welcome. I double-checked and the numbers are accurately transposed. That said, they likely do have mistakes in their measurements, such as the one for Cream 16L -- which doesn't breed much confidence for their methodology in general... :unsure: Also, I believe "Gauge" as they show it in that database comes from actually measuring with calipers, as opposed to just restating what's on the tin.
 

g4driver

Legend
The stiffness rating for Cream still seems incorrect. Just look at the different numbers for their 1.29 vs 1.31. Those stiffness measurements still don't pass the logic. .02mm difference and the stiffness drops from 243 to 171.. something is way off..
 

soulfree914

Rookie
From my limited experience with poly strings, white polys tend to feel more comfortable than other color polys even if the stiffness numbers are similar. Blue polys are also comfortable but more muted, yellow polys have a livelier and crispier feel but still comfortable, black polys generally feel deader and sometimes uncomfortably stiff, grey polys feel like a mixture of white and black polys (duh...) and green polys are lively and crisp but not as much as yellow. Red polys that I tried were crisp like yellow but at times uncomfortable.

Is there any truth to this at all or is this just very subjective?

That being said, I do tend to gravitate towards white polys for the crosses and grey or black polys for the main. Cream and GW seem to fit the bill. Can't wait to try them out!
 

g4driver

Legend
@g4driver - Very welcome. I double-checked and the numbers are accurately transposed. That said, they likely do have mistakes in their measurements, such as the one for Cream 16L -- which doesn't breed much confidence for their methodology in general... :unsure: Also, I believe "Gauge" as they show it in that database comes from actually measuring with calipers, as opposed to just restating what's on the tin.

For the USRSA to list a string at 1.29mm vs Isospeed listed 1.23mm seems like another glaring error.. round polys are easily measured with a caliper. I can't see TW's measurements for Cream in their review, but I have $10 that says they didn't measure it north of 200
 

GregN

Rookie
I have tried a heap of round cross strings including cream, triax etc and have found Genesis Black Magic 1.23 the best by a fair bit. It has great pocketing, tension maintenance as well as allowing good snapback. It's really good in a full bed as well but does not provide the spin that a shaped or textured poly does and that is it's only drawback.
 

g4driver

Legend
@HitMoreBHs - Good counterpoint regarding actual playtesting experience versus numbers alone.

@g4driver - Here you go. I also included others mentioned in this thread as well as some perennial favorites that aren't necessarily softer, but good for comparison (MSV CF, YTPF, SPPP, Revolve, etc)
StringGaugeStiffness (lb/in.)Tension loss (lbs)
Genesis Black Magic 18
1.18​
167​
21.75​
Head Lynx 16
1.25​
198​
21.06​
Head Lynx 17
1.21​
191​
20.68​
Head Lynx 18
1.17​
184​
20.93​
Isospeed Cream 16L
1.31​
243​
17.53​
Isospeed Cream 17
1.29​
171​
17.16​
Luxilon Element 125 16L
1.24​
194​
19.74​
Luxilon Element 130 16
1.3​
201​
17.09​
MSV Co Focus 1.18 17L
1.16​
189​
15.79​
MSV Co Focus 1.23 16L
1.17​
188​
14.57​
MSV Co Focus 1.27 16
1.25​
198​
15.83​
Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.18 18
1.19​
239​
15.65​
Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.23 17
1.25​
233​
17.48​
Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.28 16
1.27​
260​
15.98​
Tecnifibre Ice Code 16
1.3​
225​
19.23​
Tecnifibre Ice Code 17
1.25​
211​
15.84​
Tecnifibre Red Code Wax 1.20
1.2​
174​
17.64​
Tecnifibre Red Code Wax 1.25
1.28​
191​
16.5​
Tecnifibre Red Code Wax 1.30
1.32​
199​
16.94​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 16
1.27​
188​
16.27​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 17
1.22​
181​
14.77​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 18
1.16​
167​
18.69​
Tier One Sports Ghost Wire 19
1.1​
146​
23.77​
Tourna Black Zone 17
1.23​
202​
16.5​
Tourna Black Zone 18
1.23​
198​
15.94​
Wilson Revolve 16
1.29​
179​
19.18​
Wilson Revolve 17
1.23​
174​
19.16​
Yonex Polytour Air 125 16L
1.23​
157​
22.73​
Yonex Polytour Fire 120 17
1.2​
176​
19.78​
Yonex Polytour Fire 125 16L
1.25​
181​
18.92​
Yonex Polytour Fire 130 16
1.27​
181​
21.06​
Interesting to see some oddities, such as Cream 16L's 243 stiffness, which falls in line with the point about experience vs. raw numbers...

As suspected, TW's database shows Cream 1.28 mm at a stiffness of 178 no place close to 243

 

Trip

Hall of Fame
So, one thing to note is TW's "stiffness" measurements are usually offset from the USRSA values; typically they're larger by a certain factor, which doesn't deviate too badly. That said, the 243 value for 16L Cream *is* way off, and does need addressing.
 

GummiiBear

Semi-Pro
Looking at the 2017 String Selector, I see the same USRSA numbers for Cream 17 as in the table. 1.29, 171 stiffness, 17.16 tension loss.

Looking at the 2021 String Selector, USRSA numbers for Cream 16L read 1.28, 243, 17.53.
 

g4driver

Legend
the difference between a 220+ stiffness and sub 180 is night and day to my elbow.

Looking at the 2017 String Selector, I see the same USRSA numbers for Cream 17 as in the table. 1.29, 171 stiffness, 17.16 tension loss.

Looking at the 2021 String Selector, USRSA numbers for Cream 16L read 1.28, 243, 17.53.

So it seems they published an inaccurate information for Cream 1.28 stifness and an inaccurate diameter for Cream 1.23mm.. they actually have the string sold as 1.23mm thicker than Isospeed Cream 1.28mm. Clearly didn't check their information before publishing this.

the USRSA publishing a string labeled 1.23mm as 1.29mm with a stiffness of 171 and publishing 1.28mm as 1.28mm and stiffness of 243.. nope that isn't logical and TW's database agrees with my elbow. ;)
 
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g4driver

Legend
YPTA 1.25mm > Cream 1.28 > Ghostwire 1.22mm > Element 1.25mm is how I would rate the softness of these strings

Ghostwire has great tension maintenance.. I have two frames in winter with gut/poly. Two with NG/GW one with HDMX/YPTA. when the temps are sub 40. No indoor courts in my area.
Dang air is that soft huh? Is it even softer than most multis then?
 

soulfree914

Rookie
Ok, strung Ghost Wire in the crosses with HGS in the mains on a Pro Staff v13. The feel is simply amazing! Now I'm sold by everyone who mentioned Tier One GW.

Strung Isospeed Cream as well in the crosses with HGS mains in a Prestige MP but haven't been able to hit will it yet. Cream did seem softer and not very poly-like when I was stringing it. I think I'll like GW better but we'll see.
 

soulfree914

Rookie
HGS in the mains and Cream in the crosses felt buttery soft in a Prestige MP. Then I tried Alu Power Soft in the mains with Cream in the crosses on a Extreme Tour to add a bit of crispness and it felt awesome. As my usual go-to strings for the main string are RPM Blast and Hyper-G, I'm going to pair those with Cream. I think I like Cream better than Ghost Wire as the crosses even though GW was great as well. More pocketing and more slickness going on. My weight-drop stringing machine refused to hold on to the string a few times as it slipped out of the grabbing tool. It's that slick. lol

Cream feels like a multi string in the way it pockets the ball, which is what I was looking for, and on top of that, it's slick and round without fraying or notching like a multi. Getting the 10-pack discount on TW! :)
 

alexsoin

Semi-Pro
I like Luxilon 4G in mains mixed with Element, M2 or Smart in crosses. Tried also Solinco Outlast and Volkl Cyclone in mains as well but 4G feels better. Next try will be Ice Code 1.25 in mains, I'll let you know how it goes. So far these tests were on Pure Strike 3rd gen 16x19 and Yonex Vcore Pro 97HD. Lux 4G 1.25 mains at ~54lbs and Lux Smart 1.25 crosses at ~56lbs seemed optimal in both frames.
 
I like Luxilon 4G in mains mixed with Element, M2 or Smart in crosses. Tried also Solinco Outlast and Volkl Cyclone in mains as well but 4G feels better. Next try will be Ice Code 1.25 in mains, I'll let you know how it goes. So far these tests were on Pure Strike 3rd gen 16x19 and Yonex Vcore Pro 97HD. Lux 4G 1.25 mains at ~54lbs and Lux Smart 1.25 crosses at ~56lbs seemed optimal in both frames.
Whats the point of those strings in crosses instead of full bed 4G?
 
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