Does Nadal NEED at least 1 ...
- Thread starter kevaninho
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Xemi666
Professional
AO would be the biggest, double career slam.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
I hate to say this, but... pointless thread.
Whoever said Rafa was "better" than Novak and RF?
It's highly unlikely any of those three will end their career being a clear front-runner. Laughable.
Whoever said Rafa was "better" than Novak and RF?
It's highly unlikely any of those three will end their career being a clear front-runner. Laughable.
ElChivoEspañol
Hall of Fame
I actually do talk to a lot of tennis fans in real life (unlike the Fed echo chamber known as ttwh) and not once have I heard anyone even bring the WTF into the conversation when discussing the big 3. But, that’s just anecdotal evidence.
Now, please go find me interviews of players saying their dream is to win the WTF, for every one you find (spoiler alert: you won’t find 1), I’ll find you 5 pros that talk about how they dream to win any of the 4 slams.
Bukmeikara
Legend
1. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am a Federer follower (I do like him by the way)
2. If I use your wording, just like any Nadal fanatic you redirect the subject when it doesn't suits you. You said tennis players and now suddenly its tennis fans who dont know **** most of the time. Not to mention that likely you speak with 2-3 people that are also Nadal fans. Who is better to evalute someone's success the Pro's + fans in this forum or the imaginery casuals you speak with?! Because I guarentee you that if Poll is created - it would go against your opinion.
3. You expect me to search interviews specially for you?! Just go watch Djokovic's reaction after he defeated Federer in 2012 - and we are speaking about a guy that have won it all.
4. What Pro's talk about their dreams?! Top players usually talk how the ultimate goal is winning a Slam BUT that doesn't imply that World Tours Finals are not. I mean who doesn't want to be among the best 8 players in the World and top them in one tournament. Its against any logic ...
Crisstti
Legend
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They all have some things over the others. And there's no mathematical formula to objectively decide what weights more. So we'll never get any definitive ansers lol. At most, one player may be overall, by most people who care about these things, as better or greater over time, which would speak of what factors are overall considered more important.
Fed has weeks at n.1 over Rafa, and in a way over Novak too, but they may be getting too close. He has more all around great results probably as well. Plenty of streaks. Dominance over a certain period, though his record to Nadal then was awful. He has the slam record for now, but him and Raf are too close. I don't think much of a conclusion can be derived when two players are so close. The WTFs.
Nadal has the masters record (though Novak is close), the career win %, the Olympic Gold, the double slams at every surface, the RG record. The h2h vs Fed.
Novak has the NCYS, the period of dominance. The h2h. I don't remember how many WTFs he has, but obviously more than Rafa lol.
Any of them might end up with the slam record.
I think it'd be great if Rafa won a WTF, but I don't think it in any way disqualifies him, as they all have things over the others. IMO any slam, though especially AO or Wimbledon, would be the biggest for his legacy.
They all have some things over the others. And there's no mathematical formula to objectively decide what weights more. So we'll never get any definitive ansers lol. At most, one player may be overall, by most people who care about these things, as better or greater over time, which would speak of what factors are overall considered more important.
Fed has weeks at n.1 over Rafa, and in a way over Novak too, but they may be getting too close. He has more all around great results probably as well. Plenty of streaks. Dominance over a certain period, though his record to Nadal then was awful. He has the slam record for now, but him and Raf are too close. I don't think much of a conclusion can be derived when two players are so close. The WTFs.
Nadal has the masters record (though Novak is close), the career win %, the Olympic Gold, the double slams at every surface, the RG record. The h2h vs Fed.
Novak has the NCYS, the period of dominance. The h2h. I don't remember how many WTFs he has, but obviously more than Rafa lol.
Any of them might end up with the slam record.
I think it'd be great if Rafa won a WTF, but I don't think it in any way disqualifies him, as they all have things over the others. IMO any slam, though especially AO or Wimbledon, would be the biggest for his legacy.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
All three won 55 "big titles". If Rafa ends the year as YE1 all 3 will have 5 YE1s.
Case closed. No front runner. Nor will there be one.
(Arguing with a Fedfan who actually believes "clay is inferior" is about as futile as teaching a bunny about condoms and abstinence...)
Mainad
Bionic Poster
1 always looks better than 0.
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Start da Game
Hall of Fame
no he doesn’t need to win it......i just can’t seem to fathom the idea of including it alongside slams in GOAT......it’s a tournament where you could lose twice, not once remember twice and still end up holding the trophy the following sunday......i mean even estoril 250 had a tougher format when it existed.......whatever charm it had ended after 2005 as the sport started becoming physical......these days it’s just a glorified exo conducted for tie and suit wearing old farts in the evenings in london.......
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Don't ever recall Estoril having the top 8 players of the season in the draw.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Exactly.
TennisHockey
Rookie
I mean...
Weeks - Federer
WTF - Federer
h2h - Nadal
M1000 - Nadal
Olympic gold - Nadal
3-2 Nadal
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
I doubt Nadal cares too much about it, otherwise he wouldn't skip it so many times. It would be cool if he can win it, but it's definitely less important than slams.
True, but it's still much less than 6.
ElChivoEspañol
Hall of Fame
You sure love to assume, don’t you?
I have met 1 Nadal and 1 pseudo Djokovic fan, the vast majority are either bandwagon Fed fans (who if you ask them can’t recall jack about his career) and I am yet to hear a single conversation about the WTF.
Regarding the rest of your rambling post, there is ample evidence to players discussing their dreams of winning a specific or any slam (interviews will demonstrate so), so one more time, find me an interview (the burden of proof rests on you) where a pro tennis player explicitly says that winning the WTF has always been a dream of theirs.
The WTF is indeed an important tournament, but in the case of Nadal winning another AO weights much much much heavily on his resume than winning a WTF, despite of what YOU think.
Frank Bannister
Semi-Pro
I mean...
AO- Federer
IW- Federer
Miami - Federer
Monte Carlo - Nadal
Madrid - Nadal
Rome - Nadal
FO - Nadal
Wimbledon - Federer
Canada - Nadal
Cincy - Federer
UO- Federer
Shanghai - Federer
Paris - Federer
WTF - Federer
9-5 Federer
The biggest events in tennis.
Federer.
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TennisHockey
Rookie
And how many titles in total for Nadal and Fed?
C
Chadalina
Guest
The wtf is a much harder draw than nadals usual 1 top 10 win in route to winning a grand slam
Frank Bannister
Semi-Pro
TennisHockey
Rookie
For the "biggest events in tennis"? Try again.
Frank Bannister
Semi-Pro
Why? So you can act like the 4 clay tournaments Nadal dominated out of 14 big tourneys makes him better?
TennisHockey
Rookie
I assume by your response that Nadal stacks up well against Fed in big titles then.
Frank Bannister
Semi-Pro
If you want to believe that a clay skewed resume can make someone the GOAT, I suppose you're entitled to that opinion even if it's incorrect. This is boring. Bye.
steelcity32
Rookie
Federer should dominate every hard and grass court tournament like Rafa dominates every clay tournament. He stopped doing that in 2007.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Can you explain this "tiger" thing? Is that meant to be a higher status than GOAT?
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
T-ennis
I-indisputable
G-reatest
E-ver
R-egardless
Tennis related, more defined, adds in that it does not matter what you argue or how with the "regardless."
A goat is a joke of an animal and is used in all sports and very generic.
A tiger? Well, enough said.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Interesting. You do realise that for someone to be a TIGER though, they'd have to be miles ahead of the rest (i.e. win 25 slams vs. the next best's 20, probably win a CYGS, etc.)
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
I mean it is all mythical and ridiculous anyways. So why not at least have a cool mascot and a better acronym?
Fed actually had top competition on HC and grass
Fed has an Olympic gold ......
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Lolz at including doubles titles for a player's singles career
You like that? I thought it was fun.Lolz at including doubles titles for a player's singles career
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
In the first 4 years since winning his first Wimbledon, who was a serious challenger to him?
Hewitt, Roddick, Agassi, Nalbandian, Nadal, Djokovic.
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
No, he doesn't need it, especially if he can win more slams and spend more time as n°1. But if he does I will be very impressed and proud of him. It is the last significant event that eluded him and if he can previal there so late in his career, it will be a new testament of his character (not that he has anything left to prove).
1- Slams
2- Masters
3- WTF
I would agree that the Masters and WTF are equal, behind slams. Therefore if both Rafa and Roger wind up with 20 slams, the decider would be the total of Masters and WTF wins. Roger leads 5-0 in WTF and I believe Rafa leads Roger in Masters 35-28, giving Rafa a +2 advantage.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Nadal is an ATG, clay GOD but no GOAT.
Last checked, still 65% titles come from clay alone.
Last checked, still 65% titles come from clay alone.
ElChivoEspañol
Hall of Fame
Well, you know...that’s just like..your opinion, man.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Nadal is the only the only player (male or female) in the history of the sport to have 400+ match wins on clay and hard. This notion that he's only a clay court player is idiotic. Even if you take away all the clay titles, he's still an ATG. When he gets 21, he will have earned GOAThood.
This is a very stale argument to hold over Nadal's head. The most critical moments of 2019 have already passed. Everyone, especially Fed fans, knows which moments those were, and they were far more critical to the GOAT arguments than a best-of-three event at the end of the year that players don't tend to save much energy or prioritize for.
It's possible that Nadal wins as many USO titles as Federer. Imagine telling that to somebody in mid-2009.
Don't get me wrong. I like WTF; it's like an all-star game. But it has lost its significance.
It's possible that Nadal wins as many USO titles as Federer. Imagine telling that to somebody in mid-2009.
Don't get me wrong. I like WTF; it's like an all-star game. But it has lost its significance.
Masters and WTF aren’t equal. Total titles would come into play as well.
Xemi666
Professional
They are more equal than Slams and WTF, which the posters of a certain fanbase try to equate to each other. I wonder why?
Incognito
Legend
are you kidding me? No amount of WTFs can ever compensate for one single major.
I agree but you can’t equate 1 master to 1 YEC when Nadal has 0 YEC and like 12 Monte Carlo titles boosting his masters... Fed has less overall but did better at more
Ray Mercer
Hall of Fame
Nadal is the GOAT retriever. I’ve never seen a player push and retrieve as well as him.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
You need to stop re-watching those 2005 YT clips and switch on the TV, check out his play now...
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
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