how to convince someone that they stink and needs an overhaul?

[pushing_wins]

Option 1 - Tell him that you're a little down. You believe that your game has slipped, and that you are no longer a 5.5. Then proceed to tell him everything you want to - but with the pretext that it's all about you. When he disagrees with you, and says that you and he are 5.5's - that will give you an opening.

Option 2 - When introducing this guy to someone new say 'he's a great player, and a former 5.5'

Option 3 - Ask him 'Have you ever thought about the day that you will peak?' The day that will be your best day of tennis ever, and will never again repeated. I wonder if you've hit that day?

thanks
option 1 - i dont think he will make the connection
option 2 - tried already
option 3 - tried already

 

[pushing_wins]

Your idea wont work, winning a tournament is possible only when all players in it are of same level. But you cannot control people of higher level from playing it. Winloss ratio of a player in a league should be considered as a basis in retaining or promoting or moving down a level. In this case the guy whom you hate will be down the 5.5 level long back due to poor win loss ratio. Still you will be facing atleast 1 or 2 self rated players each time but if they are really wrongly rated then they will not stand in your way next time.

it works for the ATP, satelite and futures.

one general ranking category

 

[RichT]

i m totally straight with him. we would argue about it and then forget about it. in a couple of months, same thing over again.

i dont even bother arguing with him , one on one, i know that will get nowhere. i only bring it up when there is a 3rd party present. he will accuse me that i just like to argue. i m just argumentative. last week, he get all emotional and flustered, and threatens violence.

With friends like that eh...

Personally I'd explain to him that you are trying to help. Support your argument with his stat's (ending with his record) and tell him that you will not support him further if he presists with his attitude. Then leave it up to him.

 

[sphinx780]

Which is more important to cure? Delusion or Obsession?

Seems to me that you are a little obsessed with his continual delusion. You've tried pretty much every possible option to convince him of this delusion. For better or worse, you only have control of one person's thought process. Take your own advice. It seems as though you are also trying the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.

 

[pushing_wins]

Which is more important to cure? Delusion or Obsession?

Seems to me that you are a little obsessed with his continual delusion. You've tried pretty much every possible option to convince him of this delusion. For better or worse, you only have control of one person's thought process. Take your own advice. It seems as though you are also trying the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.

this discussion will come up again in another month. i m tired of it. i want to settle it once and for all.

 

[FTS]

Just tell him exactly what you think and the reasons why and leave it at that. You offered him a hundred bucks to play down. He knows what's going on. You're not going to get him to admit it.

 

[sphinx780]

Who is bringing up the conversation in another month?

 

[spacediver]

If you like, we can set up a meeting where I'm present. I'm pretty good at making a convincing argument!

 

[pushing_wins]

Who is bringing up the conversation in another month?

take a wild guess

 

[pushing_wins]

If you like, we can set up a meeting where I'm present. I'm pretty good at making a convincing argument!

i will try to arrange a hit between u guys

i will tell him u are an official ntrp assessor from florida.

can u come up with some bogus documentation? we will need somthing to show him

 

[pushing_wins]

Just tell him exactly what you think and the reasons why and leave it at that. You offered him a hundred bucks to play down. He knows what's going on. You're not going to get him to admit it.

he doesnt know whats going on.

he quit school, left the county, went to florida to play tennis. tennis is his life. it defines him.

that was 20+ years ago. he still talks fondly of his days in florida. he played the pre-qualifying for the key biscayne tournamnet. he got double bagel in 20 mins. he get double bageled in local tournaments in 40 mins.

all the local tournament players thinks he is sheet, but no one will say it to his face.

 

[spacediver]

i will try to arrange a hit between u guys

i will tell him u are an official ntrp assessor from florida.

can u come up with some bogus documentation? we will need somthing to show him

sure that sounds like a fun project

 

[pushing_wins]

sure that sounds like a fun project

i m not joking

 

[spacediver]

I wasn't either!

 

[FTS]

I think this guy may be finding a lot of his self worth in this. Please make sure he is emotionally stable if you're really set on doing this.

 

[dennis10is]

Don't understand your post.

You want help or are seeking advice to convince somebody their true level.

My first thought is why bother? You won't disclose your reason. Is he doing something so blantantly harmful to himself like selling all his wordly possession to play tennis, loses his job and family and friends? Is he commiting crimes to support his tennis habits? Unless, you disclose that he is doing harm to himself or others, there is no reason why you should focus on his tennis.

Second, seems like he's unreasonable. So, why are you persisting in convincing him? He enters tournament and loses. It is his time and his money. You keep on trying to convince him that he's not a 5.5 and also failing. What's the difference?

 

[tennisguy2009]

dude, why don't you just tell him you think he should take a crack at the US open qualifiers?

tell him you know someone there who can get him into the qualifiers if he takes you with him and pays for flights and hotels, tell him you think he is good enough

if he bites, then go to NY on his dime, when you arrive there tell him it won't work because all the other qualifiers at the US open are hacks, and enjoy your free NY vacation and go watch some tennis.

 

[pushing_wins]

dude, why don't you just tell him you think he should take a crack at the US open qualifiers?

tell him you know someone there who can get him into the qualifiers if he takes you with him and pays for flights and hotels, tell him you think he is good enough

if he bites, then go to NY on his dime, when you arrive there tell him it won't work because all the other qualifiers at the US open are hacks, and enjoy your free NY vacation and go watch some tennis.

he did play the pre qualify for the lipton tournament

 

[pushing_wins]

I think this guy may be finding a lot of his self worth in this. Please make sure he is emotionally stable if you're really set on doing this.

tennis is all he has.

he is still working min wage

 

[pushing_wins]

Don't understand your post.

You want help or are seeking advice to convince somebody their true level.

My first thought is why bother? You won't disclose your reason. Is he doing something so blantantly harmful to himself like selling all his wordly possession to play tennis, loses his job and family and friends? Is he commiting crimes to support his tennis habits? Unless, you disclose that he is doing harm to himself or others, there is no reason why you should focus on his tennis.

Second, seems like he's unreasonable. So, why are you persisting in convincing him? He enters tournament and loses. It is his time and his money. You keep on trying to convince him that he's not a 5.5 and also failing. What's the difference?

i need to finish this

why do we play tennis? is beating your opponent really important? why bother?

this is important to me

 

[nfor304]

Who are you to judge how he should live his life, or spend his time and money? Frankly its none of your business.

If he's happy playing at this level and constantly losing and fooling himself into thinking that he's better than he is, then just let him keep doing it. He isnt doing anyone any harm, and as you said tennis is his life. I dont understand why you're so obsessed with bringing this guy down and shattering the bubble that he's living in.

Just leave the poor guy alone and let him play and think whatever the hell he wants.

 

[rommil]

lol

ontario.


not that many, maybe 7 a year.

he plays 5.0 + tourneys.

A and open category

Refer him to Bud, he is good at self rating and rating Canadian players.

 

[pushing_wins]

Who are you to judge how he should live his life, or spend his time and money? Frankly its none of your business and from these posts you sound more mental than he is.

If he's happy playing at this level and constantly losing and fooling himself into thinking that he's better than he is, then just let him keep doing it. He isnt doing anyone any harm, and as you said tennis is his life. I dont understand why you're so obsessed with bringing this guy down and shattering the bubble that he's living in.

Just leave the poor guy alone and let him play and think whatever the hell he wants.

this dude is old. nothing special. he thinks he has a chance with model types 20+ years younger than him. i do not vocie my opinion about that. also, all political, philosophical debates. but i wont budge on the tennis.

if i dislose why i m doing this, it will turn into a discussion about me and my motivation. i do not want that.

 

[Steady Eddy]

Ever think that at some level he knows he's not that good? I mean, he's not willing to make money beating a 4.0? He must understand that he wouldn't win. Avoid him if his talk annoys you.

 

[pushing_wins]

Ever think that at some level he knows he's not that good? I mean, he's not willing to make money beating a 4.0? He must understand that he wouldn't win. Avoid him if his talk annoys you.

no, at all level he thinks he is a 5.5.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

i need to finish this

why do we play tennis? is beating your opponent really important? why bother?

this is important to me

What is important to you may not be important to your buddy. Winning isn't everything. I don't think that you ever answered my all of my original questions. Does your buddy derive satisfaction from the way he chooses to compete?

 

[aphex]

Does your friend have 20 matched k90s?

 

[Bud]

Which is more important to cure? Delusion or Obsession?

Seems to me that you are a little obsessed with his continual delusion. You've tried pretty much every possible option to convince him of this delusion. For better or worse, you only have control of one person's thought process. Take your own advice. It seems as though you are also trying the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.

Best post in the thread.

OP sounds insane.

 

[papa]

Best post in the thread.

OP sounds insane.

Yeah, I would agree unless the person he's talking about is himself.

 

[Recon]

Refer him to Bud, he is good at self rating and rating Canadian players.

Best post in this thread. I still remember that epic fail. Calling ATP pros 4.0's. Lol. Damn thinking back this board has provided me with alot of laughs.

And to the OP pushing_wins, you sound like you have no life bro. Your trying to destroy a senile old mans only joy in his life. "if i dislose why i m doing this, it will turn into a discussion about me and my motivation. i do not want that. " Whats your motivation? to make him commit suicide? Seriously you sound weird bro, just leave him be. It sounds like you want to play him and beat him but he won't play with you because your not a 5.5, or are you?

 

[pushing_wins]

What is important to you may not be important to your buddy. Winning isn't everything. I don't think that you ever answered my all of my original questions. Does your buddy derive satisfaction from the way he chooses to compete?

my diagnosis is rationalization and self deception

winning is very important to him. his perception of being 5.5 is very important to him. he rationalizes all his losses.

he retired a match after losing the first set to a player whom he feels he is not supposed to lose to.

if he only cared about competition, he would play at a lower level and have a chance to play more competitive match.

he interprets other sympathy as acceptnace of his excuses. it was merely sympathy.

 

[pushing_wins]

Best post in this thread. I still remember that epic fail. Calling ATP pros 4.0's. Lol. Damn thinking back this board has provided me with alot of laughs.

And to the OP pushing_wins, you sound like you have no life bro. Your trying to destroy a senile old mans only joy in his life. "if i dislose why i m doing this, it will turn into a discussion about me and my motivation. i do not want that. " Whats your motivation? to make him commit suicide? Seriously you sound weird bro, just leave him be. It sounds like you want to play him and beat him but he won't play with you because your not a 5.5, or are you?

thanks you for your reply. i do appreciate very much

you are guessing incorrectly

 

[pushing_wins]

Does your friend have 20 matched k90s?

5 or 6 matched babalot roddick - customized to 380g

 

[pushing_wins]

Best post in the thread.

OP sounds insane.

bud

i m racking my brain to find different strategy, which is why i m appealing you guys for help.

i hope u find this thread and the link below helpful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception

 

[Recon]

bud

i m racking my brain to find different strategy, which is why i m appealing you guys for help.

i hope u find this thread and the link below helpful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception

you act like self-deception is not normal of old people? All the legendary stories my grandpops has told me, while they sound really cool, i doubt half of them are true. I'm sorry I cannot believe this guy is just a friend or someone you met, your expending a lot of energy and thought into sabotaging his whole delusion i'm thinking hes either related to you or really close. Either way, I finally agree with Bud and say your insane. You need to start focusing on your own life, all this time your wasting on someone else..you can never get back.

 

[FTS]

it's his old man...

 

[Recon]

it's his old man...

probably. he also said that the old geezer said hes argumentative, to come to that conclusion you would have to know someone long enough & have had to had multiple conversation on different subjects, most likely on the opposite side of the argument.

 

[pushing_wins]

probably. he also said that the old geezer said hes argumentative, to come to that conclusion you would have to know someone long enough & have had to had multiple conversation on different subjects, most likely on the opposite side of the argument.

thank you

but getting side-tracked

 

[pushing_wins]

you act like self-deception is not normal of old people? All the legendary stories my grandpops has told me, while they sound really cool, i doubt half of them are true. I'm sorry I cannot believe this guy is just a friend or someone you met, your expending a lot of energy and thought into sabotaging his whole delusion i'm thinking hes either related to you or really close. Either way, I finally agree with Bud and say your insane. You need to start focusing on your own life, all this time your wasting on someone else..you can never get back.

self-deception started when he picked a racquet many years ago

we are all guilty of that to a much lesser extent.

please review the definition of insanity, i made reference to it on an earlier post. thanks.

 

[Recon]

thank you

but getting side-tracked

Theres no solution, You have effectively tried everything these posters have advised to do. What im more interested in is that you have told everyone you don't want your agenda to be revealed. I think its your agenda that's in question rather than the old timer. We already know hes delusional and probably stupid, we also know his life sucks (min wage job, dropped out HighSchool, went to florida to get decimated...) and probably only receives satisfaction from tennis. What we DON'T know is why your trying to disturb his sole enjoyment in his remaining time on this earth.

 

[pushing_wins]

it's his old man...

no he is not

 

[pushing_wins]

Theres no solution, You have effectively tried everything these posters have advised to do. What im more interested in is that you have told everyone you don't want your agenda to be revealed. I think its your agenda that's in question rather than the old timer. We already know hes delusional and probably stupid, we also know his life sucks (min wage job, dropped out HighSchool, went to florida to get decimated...) and probably only receives satisfaction from tennis. What we DON'T know is why your trying to disturb his sole enjoyment in his remaining time on this earth.

u may wish to start a thread on my motivation.

that is not the intention of this thread. i wish to keep it on topic.

please understand. thanks

 

[bad_call]

for his own good.
please advise

priceless....think this one has been used before.

 

[Fedace]

thanks for your reply

however, ur question is irrelevant

please help, thanks

Is he getting old ?? tell him,,,hey i think old mother nature is catching up to you...maybe you should try some lower level leagues and have a good balance of wins and losses.

 

[DavaiMarat]

The real question is...why not? If he enjoys playing and losing to people better then him then why not let him. Easy 1st rounder for the rest of us.

What's worse is the 5.5 that won't stop playing 3.5 tourneys. Hehehe.

 

[Bud]

Best post in this thread. I still remember that epic fail. Calling ATP pros 4.0's. Lol. Damn thinking back this board has provided me with alot of laughs.

And to the OP pushing_wins, you sound like you have no life bro. Your trying to destroy a senile old mans only joy in his life. "if i dislose why i m doing this, it will turn into a discussion about me and my motivation. i do not want that. " Whats your motivation? to make him commit suicide? Seriously you sound weird bro, just leave him be. It sounds like you want to play him and beat him but he won't play with you because your not a 5.5, or are you?

I recall zero posts of yours which tells me you've never posted anything worth reading or recalling.

 

[aphex]

5 or 6 matched babalot roddick - customized to 380g

Really?

Friggin LOL!

All the wannabe delusional tennis players have extra heavy matched racquets...

It's uncanny...

 

[russell]

At first I thought the intentions of the OP were righteous and for the benefit of the old man but now, I'm not so sure if you're trying to help or murder him. Maybe the guy is trying for the fast track (heh); self-improvement through self-deception. Those 5.5 sandbaggers must get worse if they live in the 3.5 leagues long enough.

My good friend Walter told me that ridicule has followed the vestiges of truth, but never usurped her place. I never understood what he really meant but it sounds like it might apply here somehow.

 

[pushing_wins]

The real question is...why not? If he enjoys playing and losing to people better then him then why not let him. Easy 1st rounder for the rest of us.

What's worse is the 5.5 that won't stop playing 3.5 tourneys. Hehehe.

hey dude

when are we going to get together? with spaced , my cousin form waterside - he knows of u, and the 5.5 superstar. we will have a round robin and post the scores here

 

[pushing_wins]

Really?

Friggin LOL!

All the wannabe delusional tennis players have extra heavy matched racquets...

It's uncanny...

with the weight engraved on the racquet.

he got the roddicks last year

before that he had 10 yamaha sabitiniti racquets, weighted at 380 as well