How to save tennis AFTER the big 3 leave...

[Lleytonstation]

When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.

A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:

2025 ATP Schedule
​

• Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
• Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
• Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
• Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
• Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
• Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
• Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
• Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue

What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.

Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.

Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?

Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?

Big 3 response:

 

[Sudacafan]

In 2025 Nole will only be 37/38 years old and Rafa 38/39.
I don’t think they will have retired by then, as they will be chasing each other for all the records Federer once had.

 

[victorcruz]

You are a good poster, OP. I like your dedication.

 

[Lleytonstation]

You are a good poster, OP. I like your dedication.

I just think the scheduling of the ATP is a mess, and I truly think an overhaul of the schedule will freshen things up and benefit the players. My schedule suggestion is not even that massive of a change, and I would be on board with even more dramatic changes, although they probably would not be as realistic financially to make dramatic changes.

 

[r2473]

Jack Sock will dominate the tour then. Tennis will be fine

 

[tonylg]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's a Navient Open? Halle?

I like what you've done, but would reduce the number of 1000 level tourneys. Downgrade Madrid, Cincy and Miami and it evens the season out even more.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's a Navient Open? Halle?

I like what you've done, but would reduce the number of 1000 level tourneys. Downgrade Madrid, Cincy and Miami and it evens the season out even more.

I have no problem with that. Many would though as they cherish Cincy for weird reasons. But Miami I think is needed because it creates the "sunshine slam" which has a nice ring to it. So maybe just drop Cincy and move everything up a week and you would have over 2 months off.

With they clay, I don't have a problem with it, as long as grass gets a fair share and if we space out the current clay fiasco.

 

[tonylg]

I don't mean cancel Cincy and Miami, just downgrade them them 500s. Madrid could be made a challenger.

And do it from 2021, like ripping off a band aid.

 

[tonylg]

Here's an interesting question, if the schedule looked like that right now AND there were limits of 90 sq inch and 150 lb/inch to head size and string stiffness .. how different would the tennis look and how different would the top 10 look?

Would Bautista Agut even be top 40?

 

[Mike Sams]

In 2025 Nole will only be 37/38 years old and Rafa 38/39.
I don’t think they will have retired by then, as they will be chasing one another for all the records Federer once had.

That would be crazy but awesome too. Although I don't see them winning Slams by that age but hope they continue on the tour.

 

[clayqueen]

In 2025 Nole will only be 37/38 years old and Rafa 38/39.
I don’t think they will have retired by then, as they will be chasing one another for all the records Federer once had.

Could you list ALL Federer's records that Rafa and Djoker will be chasing after he retires?

 

[Sudacafan]

Could you list ALL Federer's records that Rafa and Djoker will be chasing after he retires?

No, they are too many.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[Sudacafan]

On another note, any future change to current calendar may be construed as an attempt to devoid of meaning some of the Big Three records, as it will be difficult for future players to try breaking them, as comparisons may not be possible to make.

 

[ChrisRF]

When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.

A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:

2025 ATP Schedule
​

• Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
• Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
• Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
• Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
• Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
• Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
• Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
• Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue

What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.

Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.

Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?

Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?

Big 3 response:

I agree with almost everything, but I would switch the spots of Indian Wells and Miami to make them preparations for the Australian Open. And I would cancel one clay Masters (Madrid, which I would make an indoor Masters again), so every Slam has two Masters as preparation.

Indian Wells
Miami
Australian Open
Monte Carlo
Rome
French Open
Halle
Queen’s
Wimbledon
Canada Masters
Cincinnati
US Open
Madrid Masters (back indoors)
WTF back in Shanghai (indoors)

So everything is balanced, we still have 9 Masters, and also Shanghai and Madrid as cities don’t lose anything.

The start should be in February, so the weather should at least be similar to today’s conditions in Indian Wells and Miami. Then in March the Australian Open (still in the late Australian summer). Everything else stays the same, only the grass season is a bit longer of course.

 

[ForehandRF]

Tennis will probably be more unpredictable and this should be good for the fans.Can't see anyone dominating, including Medvedev here, so the GS titles will probably be distributed between the top 10.If so, people with consider it a strong era.

 

[clayqueen]

No, they are too many.

Just name the main ones.

 

[clayqueen]

Tennis will probably be more unpredictable and this should be good for the fans.Can't see anyone dominating, including Medvedev here, so the GS titles will probably be distributed between the top 10.If so, people with consider it a strong era.

The word you are looking for is 'among'. You can only distribute 'between' 2 people.

 

[Sudacafan]

Just name the main ones.

GOAT

 

[ForehandRF]

The word you are looking for is 'among'. You can only distribute 'between' 2 people.

Thanks for correcting me.Definitely there's room for improvements when it comes to my english skills

 

[Sudacafan]

Just name the main ones.

Fedr

 

[clayqueen]

GOAT

 

[ForehandRF]

On Wikipedia, there is an article with the list of RF's career achievements.There are many records that stand alone, especially at GS level.It's not just that he has only the most GS or weeks at no1.Every BiG 3 member has his own records anyway.

 

[Fedforever]

Why is it assumed that when the Big 3 leave everything will be worse?

Personally I'm looking forward to it in many ways. Watching tournaments without being under continual stress. Hopefully much less aggro between fans. Maybe being able to support a different player in each tournament depending on circumstances. Maybe having discussions around here that don't descend into a slanging match. Actually being able to enjoy tennis again.

 

[clayqueen]

On Wikipedia, there is an article with the list of RF's career achievements.There are many records that stand alone, especially at GS level.It's not just that he has only the most GS or weeks at no1.Every BiG 3 member has his own records anyway.

Most of them are about making finals and semi-finals. They are not real achievements. At GS level, his records are 20 titles and 8 Wimbledon titles. That's it. The rest of it is just padding.

 

[ForehandRF]

Most of them are about making finals and semi-finals. They are not real achievements. At GS level, his records are 20 titles and 8 Wimbledon titles. That's it. The rest of it is just padding.

So for example, 3 years winning 3 slams and the WTF it's just padding ?

 

[clayqueen]

So for example, 3 years winning 3 slams and the WTF it's just padding ?

I'm referring to achievements like making finals, semi-finals and QFs.

These sort of things:

 

[clayqueen]

So for example, 3 years winning 3 slams and the WTF it's just padding ?

These are not records, because other players have bettered quite a few of them. There are records and there are achievements. Big difference.


Why is this listed for heavens sake? The man is 38, he's had a long injury free career in the main, that's to be expected. Rafa has played far less GS matches (309) to be precise and he's only 1 behind Federer in slam titles.

 

[clayqueen]

So for example, 3 years winning 3 slams and the WTF it's just padding ?

These are his real records

 

[clayqueen]

So for example, 3 years winning 3 slams and the WTF it's just padding ?

When you compare Roger's list of achievements to Rafa's

List of career achievements by Rafael Nadal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you will see where I'm coming from.

 

[Sudacafan]

Yawn

 

[Lleytonstation]

Tennis will probably be more unpredictable and this should be good for the fans.Can't see anyone dominating, including Medvedev here, so the GS titles will probably be distributed between the top 10.If so, people with consider it a strong era.

Unfortunately I don't think so, as we will have many players winning slams that could not against the big 3, and we will know they are not even closely on the same page. No better than the likes of Berdych, Nishi, and Ferrer.

We will know the level of play is not even close.

 

[Towny]

The only major change I'd like to make to the tour is making Halle a grass masters and dropping Paris. Paris has been skipped by so many because no one seems to care at that point. Keep Shanghai as the only post-USO masters.

They could possibly elevate IW to some sort of super-masters as well. 1500 points. Make IW and the WTF equivalent bookends to the tour. Not sure how I feel about it but it could be something that spices things up.

The reality is that unless the younger players are willing to step up or even newer blood arrives, no amount of changes to the tour will make it interesting. I don't want a tour where all of the big events are won by different people because no one is consistent. But hopefully, Medvedev is stepping up now and others will follow

 

[ForehandRF]

Unfortunately I don't think so, as we will have many players winning slams that could not against the big 3, and we will know they are not even closely on the same page. No better than the likes of Berdych, Nishi, and Ferrer.

We will know the level of play is not even close.

You have a point

 

[ForehandRF]

These are his real records

The above ones in this table on Wikipedia are real records too, so let's agree to disagree.You can't just pick up some of the records and you should take all of them into account.Otherwise it's bias.

 

[travlerajm]

When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.

A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:

2025 ATP Schedule
​

• Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
• Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
• Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
• Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
• Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
• Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
• Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
• Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue

What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.

Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.

Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?

Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?

Big 3 response:

But starting French 2 weeks earlier will make for even more rain delays than they already have. I attended the FO in 2008, and the most vivid memories from then are from my times trying to breathe the smoky air while hanging out with lots of French people under the overhangs during the rain delays.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

The big 3 are already a part of the overall problem.
There would be no "fallout" from the big 3 if the sport hadn't strayed so much into homogenisation, personality cult, ever-growing record mania and recency bias.

80's-mid 90's was a much healthier era for the sport, but ended up spawning this monstrosity which has transformed fans into hero worshippers rather than lovers of the game who happen to have one or two favourite players.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

People underrate the value of confidence. Big 3 have broken the confidence of 3-4 generations of players. In a vacuum there will probably be 1-2 transitional years and then new players will build up enough confidence in that time to assert themselves year in year out

 

[Lleytonstation]

But starting French 2 weeks earlier will make for even more rain delays than they already have. I attended the FO in 2008, and the most vivid memories from then are from my times trying to breathe the smoky air while hanging out with lots of French people under the overhangs during the rain delays.

Maybe, but they will have a roof or two by then, and it will only effect essentially one week on the calendar so I don't think it is a reason to move it.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Yes, it'll be a problem. Tennis will need all of Nithyananda's blessings to stay alive-

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

FO2099

One hundred years his first FO appearance, Fedr will win his second FO title vs. Zverev-Kerber jr. jr.

 

[tonylg]

The big 3 are already a part of the overall problem.
There would be no "fallout" from the big 3 if the sport hadn't strayed so much into homogenisation, personality cult, ever-growing record mania and recency bias.

80's-mid 90's was a much healthier era for the sport, but ended up spawning this monstrosity which has transformed fans into hero worshippers rather than lovers of the game who happen to have one or two favourite players.

Very well said.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[DSH]

 

[acintya]

future FO era will be owned by ROBODALL
left handed spin machine with artificial body parts

 

[DSH]

That would be crazy but awesome too. Although I don't see them winning Slams by that age but hope they continue on the tour.

Honestly, I don't see them playing both at that age.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Actually, the big 3 retiring will save tennis.

I know the rest will start winning slams by default, but it will be fun and unpredictable, finally. A little bit of WTA chaos on the ATP tour should be a refreshing change.

But then, many people hate change of any kind.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

People underrate the value of confidence. Big 3 have broken the confidence of 3-4 generations of players. In a vacuum there will probably be 1-2 transitional years and then new players will build up enough confidence in that time to assert themselves year in year out

Millennials and confidence, not a happy combo...

 

[rUDin 21]

When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.

A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:

2025 ATP Schedule
​

• Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
• Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
• Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
• Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
• Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
• Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
• Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
• Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
• Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
• Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
• Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
• Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue

What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.

Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.

Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?

Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?

Big 3 response:

This is perfect Like I was writing it.

I agree with almost everything, but I would switch the spots of Indian Wells and Miami to make them preparations for the Australian Open. And I would cancel one clay Masters (Madrid, which I would make an indoor Masters again), so every Slam has two Masters as preparation.

Indian Wells
Miami
Australian Open
Monte Carlo
Rome
French Open
Halle
Queen’s
Wimbledon
Canada Masters
Cincinnati
US Open
Madrid Masters (back indoors)
WTF back in Shanghai (indoors)

So everything is balanced, we still have 9 Masters, and also Shanghai and Madrid as cities don’t lose anything.

The start should be in February, so the weather should at least be similar to today’s conditions in Indian Wells and Miami. Then in March the Australian Open (still in the late Australian summer). Everything else stays the same, only the grass season is a bit longer of course.

This is also very good.Please ATP listen to these two.

 

[toby55555]

Jack Sock will dominate the tour then. Tennis will be fine

If he can find a regular partner like Mike Bryan

 

[Mike Sams]

Honestly, I don't see them playing both at that age.

Even if they do continue playing at 37-38, it will be challenging for them to compete for the fact that much of their game depends on their wheels and defensive abilities. Even a fraction of a second slower to get to the ball is all the difference between winning and losing a match. Federer is more of an aggressive strike-first type player who doesn't engage in endless rallies nor wait for opponents to make mistakes. He's been lucky as well to manage to continue playing at a high level at his age, although a much reduced schedule as compared to his younger days. I'm not sure a 38 year old Nadal will be having 5 set wars with a 28 year old Medvedev who'll be in his physical peak. But who knows? The big 3 tend to surprise people all the time when you think they're nearing the end! LOL