If Rafa wins will he be considered greater than novak at Us open?

[Nadal_King]

A 4th title win would put rafa ahead of djokovic's 3 but will he be greater as djokovic has more finals there and this year's 4th round loss was after ages he there early.I think Rafa has been great at us open and 4th title should make him greater at us open than djokovic.

 

[Tennisbg]

For me 4 is bigger than 3.

 

[DSH]

The same situation like McEnroe and Lendl:
Brat had 4 titles in 5 finals. 65 victories.
Lendl had 3 titles in 8 finals. 73 victories.

If Nadal wins today, he will have 4 titles in 5 finals. 64 victories.
Djokovic has 3 titles in 8 finals. 72 victories.

What do you prefer: McEnroe and (possibly) Nadal or Lendl and Djokovic?

 

[TripleATeam]

Yes. Novak definitely more consistent, but Rafa got it done when it mattered, and that's something you need to take into account.

Titles: Rafa 4 > Novak 3
H2H: Rafa 2 > Novak 1

Novak's extra finals are compelling, but it's difficult to make a case that multiple lost finals are worth more than a won final. I'm sure there are circumstances (a 7 time Wimbledon finalist vs a 1 time Wimbledon fluke champ) but it's clear Nadal's victories aren't flukes.

 

[ScottleeSV]

Yes

 

[tennis_pro]

Not with the draws that he went through.

 

[ibbi]

I mean if we're talking straight up greatness then I would have to say yes, sure. Novak's extra wins/extra finals are nice, but he's a better hard court player, nobody can argue that. He's more comfortable on the surface, and he always has been. Still, to have lost 5 of his 8 finals is pretty, um, not great. This isn't some Federer at Roland Garros situation where all his losses are to the one guy, he's lost the US Open final to 4 different guys. Now I know there are extenuating circumstances to some of these that make them seem less bad than when just looking at the results out of context, but still, we're talking greatness. He's had excuses for losing other finals too, and still won them, so...

Nadal, for sure. There's something that detracts from greatness when you win lots of matches and repeatedly lose the most important one.

Of course he hasn't actually won the 4th one yet, so this is kind of a premature thread.

 

[StrongRule]

Not with the draws that he went through.

 

[Subway Tennis]

It does make Nadal greater, but only for the time being.

You get the feeling both players are going to get a few more shots at winning USO's.

Djokovic is the greatest hardcourt player I have ever seen. You have to think he will get at least one more USO if not more.

 

[steenkash]

If Rafa wins, he's on course to be the greatest ever tennis player, forget about USO, and I say this as a Novak fan.

 

[ark_28]

A 4th title win would put rafa ahead of djokovic's 3 but will he be greater as djokovic has more finals there and this year's 4th round loss was after ages he there early.I think Rafa has been great at us open and 4th title should make him greater at us open than djokovic.

Nope next question..

 

[RS]

Maybe even. Peak wise is so close and Djokovic has been more consistent. I say Nadal would a 5th to considered outright better.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

A 4th title win would put rafa ahead of djokovic's 3 but will he be greater as djokovic has more finals there and this year's 4th round loss was after ages he there early.I think Rafa has been great at us open and 4th title should make him greater at us open than djokovic.

Why are we even discussing this?

Medvedev is ushering a new era of tennis, the Medvedev era. He will win this slam and then win at least one more next year.

 

[Third Serve]

Yes.

 

[maratha_warrior]

4>3 .

Nadal will be greater USO Champ .

But this also gives one more reason for Djoker to come back at next few US Opens with more motivation .
Being the Greatest Hard court player and ending up having less US Opens than Rafa will be sad for Novak .

 

[KINGROGER]

Yeah, 4>3. He’s certainly the luckiest USO champ ever though.

Both guys have had cupcake wins there.

15-19 have all been a joke. Wawrinka saved the day in 2016. 2015 was weak, with an awful playing Federer (on return and BPs) 2010/2013 were mediocre overall but decent final opponents for Nadal. Djokovic lost his chance at 5 USO to Murray and Nishikori LOL.

 

[StrongRule]

Yeah, 4>3. He’s certainly the luckiest USO champ ever though.

Both guys have had cupcake wins there.

15-19 have all been a joke. Wawrinka saved the day in 2016. 2015 was weak, with an awful playing Federer (on return and BPs) 2010/2013 were mediocre overall but decent final opponents for Nadal. Djokovic lost his chance at 5 USO to Murray and Nishikori LOL.

Medvedev is not an easy opponent. He is in great form right now, and he might win this final.

 

[KINGROGER]

Medvedev is not an easy opponent. He is in great form right now, and he might win this final.

You can quote me on this if he puts up a fight and even wins it. I’ll hold my hands up.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Tie for me. 4 extra finals offset 1 title difference when both have a lot. What is disgusting is that the masses would consider Nadal greater than Lendl at the USO, disregarding the massive difference in consistency and yes competition.

 

[tennisaddict]

For the record books, yes.

For the knowledgeable tennis fan, no.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

4>3 .

Nadal will be greater USO Champ .

But this also gives one more reason for Djoker to come back at next few US Opens with more motivation .
Being the Greatest Hard court player and ending up having less US Opens than Rafa will be sad for Novak .

Being the supposedly future HC GOAT and having lost 5 USO finals out of 8 is already a problem, to be honest. It shows things are more complicated than we think.

 

[MeatTornado]

I can't believe this is even a conversation. But somehow we've gotten to this point.

Rafa's had some joke draws, but Novak also had his chances over the years and the supposed "hard court GOAT" shouldn't have even let this get close. Never should've lost 2012 or 2014 if he wanted to be better than Rafa here.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Not with the draws that he went through.

He beat prime Joker twice to win in 2010 and 2013. If he wins today he'll have beaten the guy who has beaten Joker in back to back matches they played.

 

[Lleytonstation]

For me 4 is bigger than 3.

My wife agrees.

But of course Rafa will be better at the USO at this point.

 

[tennisaddict]

Being the supposedly future HC GOAT and having lost 5 USO finals out of 8 is already a problem, to be honest. It shows things are more complicated than we think.

He has lost finals to Murray and Stan. That really hurts. Nadal will not lose when fit.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Being the supposedly future HC GOAT and having lost 5 USO finals out of 8 is already a problem, to be honest. It shows things are more complicated than we think.

Or the USO courts really do play quite different.

 

[tennis_pro]

He beat prime Joker twice to win in 2010 and 2013. If he wins today he'll have beaten the guy who has beaten Joker in back to back matches they played.

Djokovic definitely in his prime in 2010, especially considering his SF win against Fed the round before was his first top 10 win of that season.

In 2013 Djokovic was subpar too, lost early in Canada and Cincinnati, barely beat Wawrinka in the SF.

The fact that Nadal in a couple of hours will be a 4-time US Open champion is a complete and utter joke. His draws would be considered easy for a local 5.5 tournament.

 

[RS]

Yeah, 4>3. He’s certainly the luckiest USO champ ever though.

Both guys have had cupcake wins there.

15-19 have all been a joke. Wawrinka saved the day in 2016. 2015 was weak, with an awful playing Federer (on return and BPs) 2010/2013 were mediocre overall but decent final opponents for Nadal. Djokovic lost his chance at 5 USO to Murray and Nishikori LOL.

Federer of the USO 15 final as at least a decent oppenent. Even good. I doubt Djokovic was better in USO 13 or even 2010 than Fed was in 2015.

 

[KINGROGER]

Being the supposedly future HC GOAT and having lost 5 USO finals out of 8 is already a problem, to be honest. It shows things are more complicated than we think.

This

2004-2009 for Fed:
3/6 AO,
1 RG, 3 finals
5/6 Wimbledon
5/6 USO

2011-2016 Djokovic:
5/6 AO
1 RG, 3 finals
3/6 Wimbledon
2/6 USO

Fed in different league for peak dominance. Dominated 2 slams and nearly a 3rd (slipped up that AO to elite guys every time). Nole slipped to Murray, Wawrinka and querrey.

 

[MeatTornado]

beaten the guy who has beaten Joker in back to back matches they played.

Does that mean RG 2009 was as strong a win as any since Federer beat the guy who beat Rafa?

 

[Sport]

Yes. Novak definitely more consistent, but Rafa got it done when it mattered, and that's something you need to take into account.

Titles: Rafa 4 > Novak 3
H2H: Rafa 2 > Novak 1

Novak's extra finals are compelling, but it's difficult to make a case that multiple lost finals are worth more than a won final. I'm sure there are circumstances (a 7 time Wimbledon finalist vs a 1 time Wimbledon fluke champ) but it's clear Nadal's victories aren't flukes.

Excellent comment.

 

[KINGROGER]

Federer of the USO 15 final as at least a decent oppenent. Even good. I doubt Djokovic was better in USO 13 or even 2010 than Fed was in 2015.

He could have been but he bottled it. Djokovic never looked troubled to me.

 

[RS]

He could have been but he bottled it. Djokovic never looked troubled to me.

That match was very close only 2 points between them....

 

[Sport]

Nadal can be the best US Open player of the 2010s decade if (and only if) he defeats Medvedev today, with 4 USO titles.

But Djokovic is 1 year younger than Nadal and still has time to surpass Nadal's USO record. Interestingly, both Nadal and Djokovic will try to tie or surpass Federer's USO record.

We will see.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Djokovic definitely in his prime in 2010, especially considering his SF win against Fed the round before was his first top 10 win of that season.

In 2013 Djokovic was subpar too, lost early in Canada and Cincinnati, barely beat Wawrinka in the SF.

The fact that Nadal in a couple of hours will be a 4-time US Open champion is a complete and utter joke. His draws would be considered easy for a local 5.5 tournament.

If Nadal's prime started in 2005 after winning MS1000's, a slam, and finishing the year at #2 as a 19 year old. Then Joker was in his prime in 2007 by winning multiple MS1000's, reaching multiple slam SF's, reaching a slam final, and finishing the year at #3. His results only got better in 2008.

In 2013 he lost to Nadal in Canada so yeah he went out "early". 2013 was the first year of the Stanimal and he barely beat him at the AO in the 4th round. I guess that means he was "subpar" there too. Not has big of a joke as your posts. And I guess you could always enter the USO next year and find out.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Does that mean RG 2009 was as strong a win as any since Federer beat the guy who beat Rafa?

Sure

 

[MeatTornado]

Yes. Novak definitely more consistent, but Rafa got it done when it mattered, and that's something you need to take into account.

Titles: Rafa 4 > Novak 3
H2H: Rafa 2 > Novak 1

Novak's extra finals are compelling, but it's difficult to make a case that multiple lost finals are worth more than a won final. I'm sure there are circumstances (a 7 time Wimbledon finalist vs a 1 time Wimbledon fluke champ) but it's clear Nadal's victories aren't flukes.

I mean, yes and no.

Fluke is a harsh word. You can say it's no fluke because he'd already won it twice, but since his 2015-16 slump and 2017 comeback, he's a very different player from his prime when he won in 2010 & 2013. So what he's doing now isn't really relevant to his past history/accomplishments. His recent history would indicate that he needed some luck to win these USOs (assuming a W today).

When Nadal won in 2017, he hadn't won a hard court title in 2.5 years iirc. Then the USO where he doesn't have to play a top 20 player falls into his lap. Now it almost happened again this year (#5 Meddy saved it). And a year where both guys who beat him in the previous slams went out early with injuries.

 

[Sport]

I mean, yes and no.

Fluke is a harsh word. You can say it's no fluke because he'd already won it twice, but since his 2015-16 slump and 2017 comeback, he's a very different player from his prime when he won in 2010 & 2013. So what he's doing now isn't really relevant to his past history/accomplishments.

When Nadal won in 2017, he hadn't won a hard court title in 2.5 years iirc. Then the USO where he doesn't have to play a top 20 player falls into his lap. Now it almost happened again this year (#5 Meddy saved it). And a year where both guys who beat him in the previous slams went out early with injuries.

The USO 2017 draw was in no form or shape weaker than the AO 2018 draw. Nadal faced a Grand Slam winner (Delpo) in the USO 2017, just like Federer faced a Grand Slam winner (Cilic).

 

[MeatTornado]

He could have been but he bottled it. Djokovic never looked troubled to me.

Your lack of an avatar still throws me off every time.

 

[MeatTornado]

The USO 2017 draw was in no form or shape weaker than the AO 2018 draw. Nadal faced a Grand Slam winner (Delpo) in the USO 2017, just like Federer beat a Grand Slam winner (Cilic).

If I had a nickel for every time you posted this image, I'd be a millionaire.

I'd agree, the 18 AO was a fluke too. A 36 year old Fed definitely needed some help to win that tourny. That doesn't mean Rafa's USOs aren't just as bad, if not worse.

 

[Sport]

If I had a nickel for every time you posted this image, I'd be a millionaire.

I'd agree, the 18 AO was a fluke too. A 36 year old Fed definitely needed some help to win that tourny. That doesn't mean Rafa's USOs aren't just as bad, if not worse.

For me, all Slams have the same value, regardless of the competition faced. That is the reason why I never denied Federer's GOAT status for the "weak era" claims. Whether Federer faced strong, average or weak competition in 2003-2007 is irrelevant to me. The man has 20 Slam and will be the GOAT until proven otherwise.

 

[maratha_warrior]

Being the supposedly future HC GOAT and having lost 5 USO finals out of 8 is already a problem, to be honest. It shows things are more complicated than we think.

it's all about slams .
if he wins 1 more Hard court slam than Fed , then he will be HC GOAT .
already he has more HC masters and might as well equal 6 WTF record too..

 

[Tenez101]

A 4th title win would put rafa ahead of djokovic's 3 but will he be greater as djokovic has more finals there and this year's 4th round loss was after ages he there early.I think Rafa has been great at us open and 4th title should make him greater at us open than djokovic.

Definitely, and with a much better conversion rate of 4/5. Nadal is severely underrated on mid-speed hardcourt.

 

[ductrung3993]

Not even a Djokovic fan, but his win in 2010 and 2017 were based on some of the luckiest draw in tennis history. 2019 might surpass those two though.

 

[The Blond Blur]

.