BGod
G.O.A.T.
In terms of real sports I would put Lennox Lewis and Andy Murray at the top. 2 phenomenal careers.
This Lennox Lewis?
He lives in Miami now.
In terms of real sports I would put Lennox Lewis and Andy Murray at the top. 2 phenomenal careers.
Is he even greatest tennis player ever? IMO Fred Perry has some say in this matter...
8 GS (including career GS, first player ever to do it) , 2 Pro GS, 55 titles. Also his prime was cut by war.
For me Perry is ahead.
Born in England to Jamaican parents moved to Canada aged 12.This Lennox Lewis?
He lives in Miami now.
My ignorance about the subject is sublime.Sir Ian Botham
'Master' Jack Hobbs
Kevin Pietersen
The above from cricket.
I shall add to the ignorance. Cricket uses terms such as 'Nelson', 'silly mid off', 'dibbly dobbly', 'night Watchman', 'googly' etc. The best form of cricket have matches played over 5 days. At one point in history they were even played over 7 days...most of the time it ends in a draw.My ignorance about the subject is sublime.
Interesting. Though I may never watch a match either live or in TV, living where I live.I shall add to the ignorance. Cricket uses terms such as 'Nelson', 'silly mid off', 'dibbly dobbly', 'night Watchman', 'googly' etc. The best form of cricket have matches played over 5 days. At one point in history they were even played over 7 days...most of the time it ends in a draw.
Bernard Shaw once said 'Cricket is played by 11 fools and watched by 11000'.
I don't find much appeal in today's cricket myself. In some sense it's like tennis post the big three.Interesting. Though I may never watch a match either live or in TV, living where I live.
didn't he get beat up badly by mike Tyson ?This Lennox Lewis?
He lives in Miami now.
Born in England to Jamaican parents moved to Canada aged 12.
Your mistake is thinking that a pub game is a sportThat's Phil Taylor right at the end of his career in that picture.
I say Phil Taylor is the greatest because of how dominant he was at a professional sport, combined with a ruthless winning mentality that sought to not just beat but wipe out the opposition. This winning mentality was learned under the tutelage of his mentor, Eric Bristow, who himself was one of the greatest of all time, but Taylor had an old school hard work ethic instilled into him by his parents before he had even met Bristow. What Bristow later added to Taylor's mentality was that only first was acceptable, and anything less was failure. Let's face it, Murray is certainly behind Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all-time, and by a distance. In the Bristow school, this is failure in terms of being the best of the era.
Taylor won 16 World Championships and 16 World Matchplays during his career. The next most is 5 World Championships (Bristow and Barneveld) and 2 World Matchplays (Van Gerwen and Harrington).
That's Phil Taylor right at the end of his career in that picture.
I say Phil Taylor is the greatest because of how dominant he was at a professional sport, combined with a ruthless winning mentality that sought to not just beat but wipe out the opposition. This winning mentality was learned under the tutelage of his mentor, Eric Bristow, who himself was one of the greatest of all time, but Taylor had an old school hard work ethic instilled into him by his parents before he had even met Bristow. What Bristow later added to Taylor's mentality was that only first was acceptable, and anything less was failure. Let's face it, Murray is certainly behind Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all-time, and by a distance. In the Bristow school, this is failure in terms of being the best of the era.
Taylor won 16 World Championships and 16 World Matchplays during his career. The next most is 5 World Championships (Bristow and Barneveld) and 2 World Matchplays (Van Gerwen and Harrington).
Bobby Charlton
World Cup
European Cup
Ballon d'or
But part of a team sport. So his achievements are split between multiple team mates. And he was never the stand out performer in any of those teams. Great as he was.Bobby Charlton
World Cup
European Cup
Ballon d'or
A lot of debate in British media over whether Andy Murray is Britain's greatest sportsman... If not him, who do you think deserves that title?
His achievements are great, absolutely not disagreeing there, but he should be sitting on more titles IMO given hes always had 1 of the top 2 cars most of his career.
I still find it difficult to claim racing a car is the same as grinding your body everyday in athletics, football, tennis etc.
You’re right. He’s British-Canadian with Jamaican heritage.And I wasn't born in Canada either but guess what my citizenship says? I actually have dual like Lennox but then I didn't play Olympics under the Canadian Leaf.
Lennox is as much British as Brett Hull is Canadian. He "switched" back to the British label because of marketing. Both his parents were Jamaican and he's lived in US for over two decade and has citizenship there now too.
He ain't British.
You’re right. He’s British-Canadian with Jamaican heritage.
Love the final fight.
@-NN- I'm, sure you know a thing or 2 about angry people that say Vitali really won and Lewis ducked the rematch. Oh, salty.
Lennox is not a Brit. He's a Canadian turned American who used his birth certificate to generate more money under the Union Jack. Can't claim him as a British Sportsman when he captured Olympic Gold for Canada and lived and trained in America. Get Out.
Vitali suffered a bad cut that saved Lennox from getting KO'd and he knew he got lucky so retired on top. Smart decision.
I take Vitali over Lewis. Never knocked down and a vicious power puncher.
He was born in Britain and spent the first 12 years of his life there. He has as much claim as being British as he does Canadian.Lennox is not a Brit. He's a Canadian turned American who used his birth certificate to generate more money under the Union Jack. Can't claim him as a British Sportsman when he captured Olympic Gold for Canada and lived and trained in America. Get Out.
Vitali suffered a bad cut that saved Lennox from getting KO'd and he knew he got lucky so retired on top. Smart decision.
I take Vitali over Lewis. Never knocked down and a vicious power puncher.
Murray?! Really? (A teriible case of present-bias.)
One of Britain's many great soccer players, or rugby players, or cricket players, or billiards players, or darts players.
That was a amazing fight. Lewis fortunate for the cut and was 4-2 behind and did prpbably want no part of the rematch but he was past his best and out of shape and unmotivated. But his punching power combined with cllisons made it happen.Lennox Lewis might be as British as Hans Gruber, but he has the sheets, the passports, the documents. That makes him British.
I would have to put him as my number 1. Murray, O'Sullivan and co are obviously in the big deep conversation. But Lennox just has to be the guy. I can't even convince myself that somebody else might be number 1.
Love the final fight. The entrance music. Just the way he looks as he is walking out. Magic.
@-NN- I'm, sure you know a thing or 2 about angry people that say Vitali really won and Lewis ducked the rematch. Oh, salty.
Are you Boxing fan too then?He was born in Britain and spent the first 12 years of his life there. He has as much claim as being British as he does Canadian.
That’s a myth the momentum had already switched. Lennox completely destroyed Vitali in the last two rounds. Vitali was ahead in the score cards since he won the first four rounds however in round five and six Lennox beat him up badly. I am sure he would have knocked him out sooner or later. Might add, that Lewis was 37 and heavier than in any other of his fights. He only trained for weeks for Vitaly as another opponent was planned initially who got injured and was replaced by klitschko. Vitaly put up a great fight but Lewis underestimated him and prime for prime this shouldn’t even be close.Lennox is not a Brit. He's a Canadian turned American who used his birth certificate to generate more money under the Union Jack. Can't claim him as a British Sportsman when he captured Olympic Gold for Canada and lived and trained in America. Get Out.
Vitali suffered a bad cut that saved Lennox from getting KO'd and he knew he got lucky so retired on top. Smart decision.
I take Vitali over Lewis. Never knocked down and a vicious power puncher.
That’s a myth the momentum had already switched. Lennox completely destroyed Vitali in the last two rounds. Vitali was ahead in the score cards since he won the first four rounds however in round five and six Lennox beat him up badly. I am sure he would have knocked him out sooner or later. Might add, that Lewis was 37 and heavier than in any other of his fights. He only trained for weeks for Vitaly as another opponent was planned initially who got injured and was replaced by klitschko. Vitaly put up a great fight but Lewis underestimated him and prime for prime this shouldn’t even be close.
Here's an non sequitur: if golf is a sport, then so are snooker and darts. To paraphrase Mark Twain, golf "is a good walk ruined" that became a distraction for old white men in their retirement leisure.Taylor (darts) and O’sullivan (snooker) are surely disbarred; they’re both great, but we all know they’re pub games that became entertainment. Rugby and football are team sports,
Unforunately, if one says that Murray is the "greatest British Sportsman" and this is true, then this may say more about the quality of British sports than it says about Murray.Murray carried British tennis squarely on his own shoulders, against 3 all time greats, reached number 1, twice Olympic singles gold, dragged us to Davis Cup success (and seriously, Britain was a laughing stock in that thing for decades.) I really can’t think of a rugby player or footballer who did any more for Britain.
Lennox Lewis might be as British as Hans Gruber, but he has the sheets, the passports, the documents. That makes him British.
I would have to put him as my number 1. Murray, O'Sullivan and co are obviously in the big deep conversation. But Lennox just has to be the guy. I can't even convince myself that somebody else might be number 1.
Love the final fight. The entrance music. Just the way he looks as he is walking out. Magic.
@-NN- I'm, sure you know a thing or 2 about angry people that say Vitali really won and Lewis ducked the rematch. Oh, salty.
Here's an non sequitur: if golf is a sport, then so are snooker and darts. To paraphrase Mark Twain, golf "is a good walk ruined" that became a distraction for old white men in their retirement leisure.
Being a game (originating in pubs or not) and being entertaining does not disqualify darts, snooker, or . . . tennis for that matter.
(Modern tennis originated as a weekend leisurely pastime for the upper class in England. You cannot blame a modern sport for where it orginated. If you do, then you could disqulify everything.)
Rugby, football, basketball, baseball, (American) football are all team sports. If one disqualifies members of teams, then one rules out all of these. No Maradona, no Pele, no Messi, no Babe Ruth, no Mickey Mantle, no Michael Jordan, no Lebron, no Kareem, no Johnny Unitas, no Joe Montana, no Jim Brown.
Unforunately, if one says that Murray is the "greatest British Sportsman" and this is true, then this may say more about the quality of British sports than it says about Murray.
Ever? Okay, this is getting to Diana Spencer levels of stupidity now. No, he's not Britain's greatest EVER sportsman. He might make the top 10.
Today? Maybe... Hamilton and Farah would both give him a run for his money. Cook just retired, but he'd be up there too. I know the issue people have with Hamilton, but I'll throw O'Sullivan in there, even Higgins too.
As for the question, Murray of course isn’t the greatest. Bobby Charlton and Lewis are ahead and so is George Best.
You seem reasonable and equanimous. Not being British, I concede the home ground to you.Some good points, but I don’t fully agree with any of them.
1. I can’t stand golf, so you’re talking to the wrong guy here. Happy to disqualify it as a sport!
2. There is still a huge difference between tennis and the pub games. By way of example, only British Islanders and Chinese seem to actually play snooker professionally to any real standard so being great in that sport doesn’t really mean much.
3. The list of names you’ve given actually prove my point. Had one of them been British, Murray might have some competition. Take football. We’ve had some decent footballers, but not a Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona. No one that good. I think Murray is a more than decent tennis player.
4. Finally, the debate is exactly about Britain’s greatest sportsman. The bar might not be that high, that’s ok, we’re a northern hemisphere island. I still think all things considered, Murray is well in the running to be our finest sportsman. He’s beaten the best in his sport, multiple times and reached the top.
I’m still waiting for someone to name a British sportsman better than Murray. They may be out there, but I can’t think of one.
You seem reasonable and equanimous. Not being British, I concede the home ground to you.
I don't know that there is one guy I'd pick outright, but as a tennis fan I'm partial to Fred Perry. Ronnie (and Hendry before him) are the two greatest snooker players that ever lived with a stupid long list of records. Daley Thompson's got to be up there, Coe, Lennox Lewis, Redgrave, and the long list of cricketers I'd never discount because those former colonies are all pretty gosh darn good! I also hate Lewis Hamilton with a passion, but it pains me to say he's up there too. That's not even getting into all the footballers.Cook??? I love cricket, and Cook (fully deserves his knighthood), but it’s only us and the former colonies that really play the game. Same reason I wouldn’t put Beefy above Murray.
Farah is a good call, but that’s another problem, we only really care what he does every 4 years don’t we? His sport is only really visible at the Olympics and it’s not blue riband like Bolt in the 100 metres.
O’Sullivan is a great snooker player but surely no one can argue that he’s achieved a single thing as massive as winning Wimbledon, Olympic gold or the US Open in tennis? Surely?
Who do you think is the greatest ever Brit sportsman?
I don't know that there is one guy I'd pick outright, but as a tennis fan I'm partial to Fred Perry. Ronnie (and Hendry before him) are the two greatest snooker players that ever lived with a stupid long list of records. Daley Thompson's got to be up there, Coe, Lennox Lewis, Redgrave, and the long list of cricketers I'd never discount because those former colonies are all pretty gosh darn good! I also hate Lewis Hamilton with a passion, but it pains me to say he's up there too. That's not even getting into all the footballers.
Murray has been revolutionary for British sport, but seeing how he climbed from boy who could barely make it through a 5 set match, to one of the strongest players on tour, ender of generations long droughts in the Davis Cup and at Wimbledon makes me wonder why he couldn't climb higher still? It's not physical, it's mental. He was made to look ordinary by not 1, not 2, but 3 of his peers, and I'm not sure you should be able to say that about the greatest of all time.
Best is great, but not British. And I don’t agree with you on the other two.
If we consider Lewis a Brit than surely he is greater than Murray. He was on top of his sport for several years and can be mentioned in GOAT debates without a problem, two things Murray does not have. Boxing is not a joke sport either.Best is great, but not British. And I don’t agree with you on the other two.
I was being funny. If I ever was really leaving I'd make sure to leave a thread with all the glitz and glamour.
Best was from Northern Ireland which is still part of the UK so he's as British as Rory McIlroy.