Jason Collins, and coming out in tennis

[Colin]

Now that Jason Collins has made headlines this week for being the first active player in the four big American sports — you know, the ones that aren't as interesting, exciting or aesthetically pleasing as our beloved tennis yet somehow keep the drooling masses hopelessly, narcotically entranced by their TV screens — how long till we see a current gay male tennis player come out?

Of course, you can't throw a tennis ball in the WTA without hitting an out and proud lesbian — starting with Billie Jean and Martina (whom Collins referenced as an inspirational figure in his life). But besides the shocking cultural precociousness of Bill Tilden (leave it to an erotically charged homosexual gent to adapt to the name "Big Bill"), we've witnessed nary a peep from the closet that resides deep in the ATP locker room.

The stumbling blocks have been well-documented, from the fear of the masculine culture that persists in mainstream sports to the awkward shower moments. But the response to Collins' coming out — whether you want to term it as a historic and courageous moment from a brave trailblazer (though not on Portland's roster!) or an act of desperation for a player who's possibly nearing the end of his career and could use a PR boost and convenient entry into the history books — it seems to have set things in motion. Other athletes are showing it's no big deal, they're offering congratulations and so forth. Sure, there are a few negative comments, but even then the sports organizations seem to be telling those individuals that discrimination is not an honorable path.

We're hearing whispers that other NBA players and NFL players may be ready to follow suit. But how about tennis? Will this open the door or is it inherently different? After all, those other big four are strongly American and it seems as if the U.S. is headed inexorably toward acceptance as a steady stream of states validates same-sex marriage. Tennis, on the other hand, is so global and many of the players come from nations in which gays are still largely unaccepted.

So, lastly, when do you think we'll see the someone else come out and will it be Top 20, 50, 100? I'm going to say we'll see someone in the Top 50 in the next six months take the big step.

 

[bluetrain4]

I don't think Collins will be the last active team sports player to come out, and we'll probably see a male tennis player come out at some time.

But, I honestly don't see a tidal wave of athletes coming out. Sure, more than in previous generations, but still not a lot. The fan-reaction, loss of endorsements and financial reasons, general hostility, personal doubt, family issues, etc. still exist and I'm betting most gay athletes stay closeted, at least until they retire.

But, again, I do think Collins paves the way for at least some additional athletes to come out.

 

[Colin]

Your guess is as good as mine...they were both on either their first or second pages of discussion when they poofed so I have no idea. It only happened maybe 2 hours ago.

One was posted by Amelie Mauresmo (ironic?) though, condemning Collins for waiting till the end of his career to come out as opposed to people like BJK and Martina who did it when they were still going strong.... I don't know, some ridiculous nonsense that only he could come up with.

Not sure about the other though.

Thanks for filling me in.

As I mentioned, I've seen it play both ways with Collins' coming out. Some are calling him courageous for being a first, some lamenting he was nearing the end of his career — like those others who opened up after they had called it quits.

While I did feel it was more opportunistic than inspiring — really, he had more to gain than lose here — I just think it's too judgmental to demand people open up on their personal lives before they're ready.

In the end, the net gain will be positive, as it will show the sporting world is ready.

 

[bluetrain4]

Thanks for filling me in.

As I mentioned, I've seen it play both ways with Collins' coming out. Some are calling him courageous for being a first, some lamenting he was nearing the end of his career — like those others who opened up after they had called it quits.

While I did feel it was more opportunistic than inspiring — really, he had more to gain than lose here — I just think it's too judgmental to demand people open up on their personal lives before they're ready.

In the end, the net gain will be positive, as it will show the sporting world is ready.

I've heard both sides of the argument as well, but honestly, think of the overall context - tens of thousands of men have played pro team sports, and none have said they were gay while still active players. So, I don't see how the announcement could be anything but monumental.

Sure, it would be better if he did it last year or earlier when he was under contract to play. Then we'd be sure of knowing how it would all play out and could better gauge how future athletes would be treated based on fan reaction, teammate dynamics, how management deals with it, how the media covers a gay player in a team sport. That could still happen if he gets signed, but the chances of that aren't great, though it is a possibility.

 

[Tanya]

Thanks for filling me in.

As I mentioned, I've seen it play both ways with Collins' coming out. Some are calling him courageous for being a first, some lamenting he was nearing the end of his career — like those others who opened up after they had called it quits.

While I did feel it was more opportunistic than inspiring — really, he had more to gain than lose here — I just think it's too judgmental to demand people open up on their personal lives before they're ready.

In the end, the net gain will be positive, as it will show the sporting world is ready.

My my they have already pruned this thread as well.

Anyway, as to the discussion at hand, I can certainly understand why Collins would have waited till the twilight of his career to make such an announcement. Realistically speaking, had he done so when he was younger it most likely would have affected his career negatively. After building up his credibility for many years in the sport, he finally felt he was in a comfortable enough position to come out.

That is I think the struggle. Less established athletes are afraid of hurting their chances at greatness/endorsements/respect/etc. Not to mention a male athlete on a team of macho basketball players may not exactly feel "comfortable" letting the world know he's gay.

I think it's different for a sport like tennis, one because of the individuality-factor and two because it is a much more international sport, and as has been said many countries are very anti-gay (i.e. Russia, etc). Hopefully players other than the women (not that aren't brave/shouldn't be respected for it) will find the courage to come out and be honest about themselves in front of the world. I think just 1 high-ish profile male tennis player announcing his sexuality as anything other than 'straight' could do tons for gay-rights regarding this sport.

 

[TW Staff]

A quick note to all who visit this thread.

The first two of these threads went downhill too fast to justify keeping them.

I'm going to give you a third try (I've already had to delete posts in this thread) to actually discuss the topic, because it is a topic in sports in general and affects Pro Players.

That being said, ANY inappropriate behavior will be dealt with swiftly and with zero leniency (permanent bans would not be out of order).

Please don't be the bad apple that ruins the bunch for everyone trying to have a legitimate conversation.

Aaron
TW Staff

 

[Colin]

A quick note to all who visit this thread.

The first two of these threads went downhill too fast to justify keeping them.

I'm going to give you a third try (I've already had to delete posts in this thread) to actually discuss the topic, because it is a topic in sports in general and affects Pro Players.

That being said, ANY inappropriate behavior will be dealt with swiftly and with zero leniency (permanent bans would not be out of order).

Please don't be the bad apple that ruins the bunch for everyone trying to have a legitimate conversation.

Aaron
TW Staff

Thanks for keeping this open, and hopefully everyone honors your guidelines because it's definitely a topic of interest out there, on front pages across the county, with both sports fans and those who couldn't care less about basketball.

Andy Roddick, still a leading voice in the sport, has joined Athlete Ally, a group aimed at ending homophobia in sports. Here's what he had to say: "Yesterday was an incredible day for athletes everywhere. Jason Collins' courage and leadership in coming out reminds me of how important it is for an athlete to be able to be true to him or herself. As an Athlete Ally, I want to support every athlete to feel comfortable and confident being themselves and to make sure that all people - players and fans alike - are welcome and included in tennis."

God, this just increases my love of Andy (in a platonic way? hmmm). He was joined by buddy Mardy Fish.

Martina, who's on the advisory board, noted: "It's people like Andy and Mardy who will help pave the way for LGBT athletes in tennis."

A few years back, Billie Jean called on Roger and Rafa and the top players to show their support for gay players in tennis. Do you think we'll see that soon?

 

[Tanya]

I think the problem is that for every 1 Athlete Ally (or athlete that supports openness about sexuality in sport) there are 10 others that have someone negative to say about the subject. Despite the advancements society has made in acceptance of LGBT sexuality, discrimination is still extremely prevalent in regards to this issue, and I think many people fear that vitriol/ridicule/what have you resulting in them feeling the need to hide their sexuality in order to remain under the radar of its criticism.

 

[Colin]

I think the problem is that for every 1 Athlete Ally (or athlete that supports openness about sexuality in sport) there are 10 others that have someone negative to say about the subject. Despite the advancements society has made in acceptance of LGBT sexuality, discrimination is still extremely prevalent in regards to this issue, and I think many people fear that vitriol/ridicule/what have you resulting in them feeling the need to hide their sexuality in order to remain under the radar of its criticism.

That's true, Tanya. I find that more than a few male tennis players are very disrespectful to their female peers, too, so it's not making a huge leap how they might feel about orientation.

Andy's great and all but he has a humanitarian award and he's a longtime friend of Elton John (didn't he sing at Andy's wedding?), so that wasn't really a surprise — plus he's retired. We need to hear some tweeting and some words of encouragement from Roger, Rafa, Andy and Novak. I honestly can't imagine any of that four having a big issue with gay players, and they really lead by example with the lower-ranked players, especially those who may come from less-tolerant countries.

 

[NE1for10is?]

My predicition is that the first openly gay male tennis players will come from one of the European countries, where gay marriage has been the norm for some time, and probably one of the younger players, for whom it's just not a big deal anymore.

 

[mightyrick]

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard this news story. I'll tell you, there are not many days when I wake up and feel a true admiration for someone -- but Jason Collins gets my highest respect.

For those who don't know, the amount of gay hatred and discrimination runs very strong in the African American athletic community. It's just a factor of that sub-culture.

Everyone should praise him for his courage because not only is he gay... the man is an African American gay man. The amount of inner-strength it took to come forward as a young black man -- I just cannot imagine.

With the stereotypes, fear, and level of cultural repression involved... this is Jackie Robinson territory. IMHO, this is truly prolific.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

My predicition is that the first openly gay male tennis players will come from one of the European countries, where gay marriage has been the norm for some time, and probably one of the younger players, for whom it's just not a big deal anymore.

There is still a lot of homophobia in European countries. It's often difficult to realize the extent of it because people don't really dare to be vocal on that subject, but the recent law project for gay marriage in Northern Ireland and especially France, where huge manifestation happened, show how many people are "not comfortable" with homosexuality.

I can only hope that some other gay men will dare to come out, wherever they come from.

Maybe it could even be a good marketing move. There are probably a lot of brands who are willing to advertise toward the gay communities.

I didn't know this Jason Collins but hats off to him.

 

[kiki]

Well, tennis was much more revolutionary than basketball.Navratilova came out like 35 yrs ago.Maybe King went further even before...

Of course, it is harder in the macho man sporting life to be a male gay than a woman gay.Unfair but true.

 

[SoCal10s]

I can't believe everyone here is making this dirtbag into a hero .. he strung up his fiance for 8 years leading the poor woman to believe she was to be spending her life with him ... they spent 8 years together and were engaged .. just think if you were that woman and all the lies that led to this..

 

[Flash O'Groove]

I can't believe everyone here is making this dirtbag into a hero .. he strung up his fiance for 8 years leading the poor woman to believe she was to be spending her life with him ... they spent 8 years together and were engaged .. just think if you were that woman and all the lies that led to this..

That's a real problem. A lot of gay men (maybe women as well), spent a lot of time living an heterosexual life. It may be because some of them realize later that they are more attracted by men, or because they never dared to live openly their homosexuality. This problem exist mainly because of homophobia/heterocentrism, and should not be used as an argument for homophobia.

 

[sureshs]

I can't believe everyone here is making this dirtbag into a hero .. he strung up his fiance for 8 years leading the poor woman to believe she was to be spending her life with him ... they spent 8 years together and were engaged .. just think if you were that woman and all the lies that led to this..

That is not good, but it may not have been easy for him, with all the hate that he knew would be coming.

 

[mariecon]

I can't believe everyone here is making this dirtbag into a hero .. he strung up his fiance for 8 years leading the poor woman to believe she was to be spending her life with him ... they spent 8 years together and were engaged .. just think if you were that woman and all the lies that led to this..

How do you know she didn't know he was gay? Haven't you ever heard of a beard? Gay actors do it all the time and I'm sure their beards are rewarded handsomely.

BTW I congratulate him for having the courage to come out. Although I'm not surprised he waited till his career was on a downturn to do so.

 

[Camilio Pascual]

So, lastly, when do you think we'll see the someone else come out and will it be Top 20, 50, 100? I'm going to say we'll see someone in the Top 50 in the next six months take the big step.

Quite soon. Economics determine many things, this should be a rewarding time to come out.
A competent business manager should be lining up endorsement and advertising deals for any male tennis player who decides to come out.
My reaction as an opposing tennis player is to completely ignore my opponent's sexuality and other irrelevancies such as colour, religion, nationality, clothing, etc. so I can concentrate on taking apart his game on court and defeating him.

 

[mightyrick]

How do you know she didn't know he was gay? Haven't you ever heard of a beard? Gay actors do it all the time and I'm sure their beards are rewarded handsomely.

^ Absolutely this.

Also, it bears saying that men and women are raised heterosexual. I'm sure for many gay people, the identity conflict takes awhile to overcome. Many probably have to go through turmoil and counseling to come to the reality that problems in their relationships and personal lives are actually due to being raised to be something that they're not.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

^ Absolutely this.

Also, it bears saying that men and women are raised heterosexual. I'm sure for many gay people, the identity conflict takes awhile to overcome. Many probably have to go through turmoil and counseling to come to the reality that problems in their relationships and personal lives are actually due to being raised to be something that they're not.

Very well written.

 

[Relinquis]

once a top football* (proper, non-NFL) player comes out and it causes a bit of a stir the fans, media, corporate sponsors and business folk will adjust globally... then it will be normal as it has been in tennis for decades. even among men, it's not uncommon to see boyfriends in the players box rooting for their guy.

this is only news to the tribal sports, the world of tennis is more enlightened when it comes to these things. ahead of the curve...

I think NFL will be one of the last sports to show it as it is more parochial a sport, probably less tolerant, even though i'm quite certain that there are many high level gay players in the sport. even then, all it requires is one top star to come out. everyone else will fall in line.

 

[Douggo]

FWIW, I believe the ex-fiancee has stated that she was shocked to find out he was gay, but supports him being true to who he is.

 

[Overdrive]

The biggest problem about this guy was he 'strung' his ex-wife along for around 8 years. I honestly believe he knew he was gay all along.

I'm sorry, but I don't have respect for this man.

 

[Golden]

The biggest problem about this guy was he 'strung' his ex-wife along for around 8 years. I honestly believe he knew he was gay all along.

I'm sorry, but I don't have respect for this man.

Societal and religious pressures have more of an effect than you know. It took my friend around 4 years to finally accept myself. I can only imagine what it's like for a professional athlete, who is constantly in the limelight and subject to much criticism, to try to accept who they truly are. Although our society is getting better, there is still a lot of homophobia. People think and fool themselves into thinking they're straight. You can't judge a person for trying to discover who they are.

 

[SLD76]

once a top football* (proper, non-NFL) player comes out and it causes a bit of a stir the fans, media, corporate sponsors and business folk will adjust globally... then it will be normal as it has been in tennis for decades. even among men, it's not uncommon to see boyfriends in the players box rooting for their guy.

this is only news to the tribal sports, the world of tennis is more enlightened when it comes to these things. ahead of the curve...

I think NFL will be one of the last sports to show it as it is more parochial a sport, probably less tolerant, even though i'm quite certain that there are many high level gay players in the sport. even then, all it requires is one top star to come out. everyone else will fall in line.

There certainly were alot of rumors surrounding a former kansas city chiefs running back and a certain rapper named jay z

 

[ollinger]

Overdrive
1) It's quite something how you don't allow yourself to be derailed by facts. Collins was never married.
2) Gays commonly are involved in heterosexual relationships often for lengthy periods because they're in a certain amount of denial and want to try to live what feels like a more socially acceptable life.

 

[citybert]

I think Martina needs to be mentioned. She came out about 20 years ago and lost all her endorsements, so wrong. It took too long for this to happen. All the best for Collins on this and hope that it helps others.

 

[veroniquem]

Overdrive
1) It's quite something how you don't allow yourself to be derailed by facts. Collins was never married.
2) Gays commonly are involved in heterosexual relationships often for lengthy periods because they're in a certain amount of denial and want to try to live what feels like a more socially acceptable life.

I agree with that. Most gay people I know have tried or experimented with hetero relationships. Anything from a one night stand to a full blown marriage with kids. The pressure to conform cannot be underestimated ( to societal norms, religious beliefs, parental expectations, etc, etc) Some come out completely, others will lead a double life or repressed life for a long time before they can cope with it or always remain conflicted about it. It's hard for a straight person who's never known a similar situation to pass a categoric judgement about it.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

I'm not sure why people keep calling him courageous. As far as I can tell, he's actually been celebrated by just about everyone. He's gotten a phone call from the president, he's been lauded throughout. And now, being at the end of his career, he'll probably get another contract from a team that he normally wouldn't have because no one wants to be perceived as anti-gay.
I feel bad for his fiance. She truly was looking for someone to spend the rest of her life with and he was stringing her along. Not very "courageous".

Just the other day Tim Tebow was released by the Jets. If I were him and wanted to play in the NFL, I would (cynically) announce that I was gay. He'd get contracts so fast....

 

[rajah84]

I'm not sure why people keep calling him courageous. As far as I can tell, he's actually been celebrated by just about everyone. He's gotten a phone call from the president, he's been lauded throughout. And now, being at the end of his career, he'll probably get another contract from a team that he normally wouldn't have because no one wants to be perceived as anti-gay.
I feel bad for his fiance. She truly was looking for someone to spend the rest of her life with and he was stringing her along. Not very "courageous".

Just the other day Tim Tebow was released by the Jets. If I were him and wanted to play in the NFL, I would (cynically) announce that I was gay. He'd get contracts so fast....

Just about anything that's controversial is good for business. Why do you think Andy Roddick jumped all over it??? Do you really think he's pro gay? he may be, but I have my doubts to which I am allowed. I'm sure he and most of the others discussed it with their agent/publicists on how this could benefit them financially. Obama no doubt had to politicize it like he does everything.

Coming out is supposed be about setting oneself free and embracing who you are. In the end it's just money and politics...and ultimately money. It's hard to know who really is in support of this with all the money on the line.

 

[*Sparkle*]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to be supportive. Anyone who has played on the world tour is going to be fairly worldly, and I'd expect most of them to be cool with it. Regardless of motives, it's great that people like Roddick are being publicly supportive, as there are probably quite a few members of the public who aren't quite sure how to react. Seeing a straight, married man like him being supportive gives them a kind of permission to be supportive without worrying that people will think they must be a closet case themselves.

Can gay men "do it" with the opposite sex? Do they do it with disgust or what? How does it work?

I've known some who can, and can enjoy it well enough for what it is, while others just cannot "perform". I'd have said that many men who claim to be bi, are really just gay, but don't want to commit to that concept entirely, or want to lend credibility to their previous hetero relationships. Invariably, a few years down the line they realise that their relationships with men just work better, lol.

I say well done to anyone in the public eye for coming out. I do feel sorry for the women who unwittingly had relationships with gay men, but most of the time the men are in denial and not trying to hurt anyone. They're suffering just as much.

IMO, it is inevitable that the sort of athletes who make the first waves will be ones who have either retired, or who have reached the latter stages of their career. It actually worked pretty well, because other players, the media and the public have all got to know them, and if they liked them before, it's going to be tough for them to find excuses for not liking them now.

I know people talk about players losing sponsorship deals if they came out, but I'm not sure that would happen. True, they might not get them all renewed, or miss out on some new opportunities, but I don't think it would be legal to drop someone from a deal because of their sexuality, and big companies wouldn't want to risk it looking like they were doing it.

Yes, there may be some issues for the less progressive markets, and this is why I think a player who is already established, with some success behind them is more likely to take the plunge. If you know where is good to stay, and can afford to stay in the nice hotels, you are unlikely to have serious problems in even the more backward thinking countries. When you have money, the normal rules don't apply.

In that respect, I think it would be much tougher for a young player in the lower ranks to take the risk of coming out. It's still a big deal for a lot of people, and players don't need the hassle of managing other people's reactions when negotiating shared accommodation, or staying in lodgings.

I would hope that would change within a few years of a higher profile player coming out, but younger players with ambition are always going to want to avoid anything that might distract them from playing their best.

 

[rajah84]

I think that's some wishful thinking on your part Sparkle

In reality most of these players are come from traditional backgrounds and live in a bubble as the float from city to city. They have little time to be indoctrinated with worldly ways. If they seem to be in support of a cause you have to wonder. If the world #1 voices his approval along with Andy "I'm irrelevant" Roddick then I'm right. There is NO way NOLE is pro gay hahahaha

 

[*Sparkle*]

I think the simple act of travelling your own country, and then the world, encourages people to be a bit more open about all sorts of things and so avoid that small town mentality. Even if they aren't all that sure about homosexuality, I think they'd not be all that fazed by it.

Some would act like idiots. I'm not saying they would all react brilliantly, but there is absolutely no reason to presume that Roddick and Fish need PR people to tell them to pretend to be open minded.

 

[Wooly]

at the end ... as long as somebody has to "come out" ... somethings wrong ..

 

[MichaelNadal]

at the end ... as long as somebody has to "come out" ... somethings wrong ..

Can you elaborate? Not sure what you meant by this.

 

[CCNM]

Mauresmo's disappointed that Mr. (Jason) Collins "waited until the (near) end of his career" to come out?? Ok. Amelie, just be happy for the man!!! If any male tennis player (or other professional in any sport) comes out while still active; well, he's pretty brave. This will probably get deleted but I've heard rumors that R. Gasquet is gay

 

[Overdrive]

Societal and religious pressures have more of an effect than you know. It took my friend around 4 years to finally accept myself. I can only imagine what it's like for a professional athlete, who is constantly in the limelight and subject to much criticism, to try to accept who they truly are. Although our society is getting better, there is still a lot of homophobia. People think and fool themselves into thinking they're straight. You can't judge a person for trying to discover who they are.

If he would have told his famous athletic ex-wife, she would have either posted the news on social media or leave him and then open her mouth to the media. A third option would be that she accepts him, they both cancel their engagement and don't talk to the press.

However, no one does the third option. Everyone wants to make publicize their private lives these days. Can everyone please stop caring about this and focus on Collins' NBA career? People won't because this is all they care about and the only thing 'notable' of him is that he'll be "The First Openly Gay Whatever". Disgusting.

Although our society is getting better

Huh...? Do you seriously believe this?

 

[Overdrive]

Overdrive
1) It's quite something how you don't allow yourself to be derailed by facts. Collins was never married.
2) Gays commonly are involved in heterosexual relationships often for lengthy periods because they're in a certain amount of denial and want to try to live what feels like a more socially acceptable life.

I never implied that he was married. They were engaged to be married I believe. Once again, you're wrong.

On number 2, these people are wrong for doing this. Ethically and morally, this is 100% wrong. Living in lies and fear contributes nothing but makes things worse for both parties involved. Socially acceptable? 'Society' doesn't know what to accept.

 

[Bobby Jr]

I believe we're almost at the point where coming out would not be detrimental for a tennis player's sponsorship - at least not with respect to losing existing sponsors.

Not many brands big enough to be involved in tennis sponsorship would appreciate the public negativity towards them that would likely come with their being accused of homophobia.

 

[Wooly]

Can you elaborate? Not sure what you meant by this.

if you´re gay or straight should not not matter at all .. its disgusting were not over it although we live in the 21 Century ...

 

[Overdrive]

I believe we're almost at the point where coming out would not be detrimental for a tennis player's sponsorship - at least not with respect to losing existing sponsors.

Not many brands big enough to be involved in tennis sponsorship would appreciate the public negativity towards them that would likely come with their being accused of homophobia.

Because homosexuality is slowly being 'accepted', if guys like Federer or Tomic would declare themselves homosexual, their companies would still keep them because they don't want to be blacklisted by major companies that advertise their products or the fans to stop buying their clothing. Either way, they would lose sales if any popular male or female tennis player 'came out'.

Bottom line: It is nonsensical to actively 'come out' because you aren't sure whether the sales will plummet or increase OR whether your sponsorship salary does the same thing.

In Collins' case, we'll have to see how it turns out for him. To me? It's commercial suicide.

 

[Overdrive]

if you´re gay or straight should not not matter at all .. its disgusting were not over it although we live in the 21 Century ...

It wouldn't matter if people would just shut up about it.. I don't care what anyone does in the sanctity of their homes.

 

[Tanya]

I never implied that he was married. They were engaged to be married I believe. Once again, you're wrong.

On number 2, these people are wrong for doing this. Ethically and morally, this is 100% wrong. Living in lies and fear contributes nothing but makes things worse for both parties involved. Socially acceptable? 'Society' doesn't know what to accept.

You clearly have no idea the pressure felt by gay men to conform to heterosexuality, especially when they're young. The discrimination they face at the hands of their peers and society in general is more than just being "embarrassed" about being gay. It perpetuates self-shame which can cause a person to spiral downward into depression, substance addiction, and worse (I'm sure you're aware of the teenagers that committed suicide because of this?). To say that it's "ethically and morally 100% wrong" for a man to try and live by the standards society demands of him is pure ignorance.

 

[Overdrive]

You clearly have no idea the pressure felt by gay men to conform to heterosexuality, especially when they're young. The discrimination they face at the hands of their peers and society in general is more than just being "embarrassed" about being gay. It perpetuates self-shame which can cause a person to spiral downward into depression, substance addiction, and worse (I'm sure you're aware of the teenagers that committed suicide because of this?). To say that it's "ethically and morally 100% wrong" for a man to try and live by the standards society demands of him is pure ignorance.

I actually have male friends who are gay since childhood. I had my suspicions but never condemned them of it. You didn't think about that. You clearly did not read my previous posts that society doesn't know what to demand anymore. They support one issue and argue against another thing which contradicts multiple issues. Another form of self-contradiction and inconsistency.

This happens.

 

[SLD76]

I actually have male friends who are gay since childhood. I had my suspicions but never condemned them of it. You didn't think about that. You clearly did not read my previous posts that society doesn't know what to demand anymore. They support one issue and argue against another thing which contradicts multiple issues. Another form of self-contradiction and inconsistency.

This happens.



Are you suggesting that I'm against homosexuality? It's irrelevant. It shouldn't matter what people do in their private lives. Why publicize it? It makes no sense to me.

Maybe he publicized it to begin the process of making it a non issue in the future.

 

[Overdrive]

Maybe he publicized it to begin the process of making it a non issue in the future.

I saw the interview that was on during the morning news while I was making breakfast.

Do you think the average joe thinks he did this for a statement? No. It's always misconceived if this was his intention. You can thank the media and social media.

Whatever he does, I hope he doesn't regret it.

 

[*Sparkle*]

I believe we're almost at the point where coming out would not be detrimental for a tennis player's sponsorship - at least not with respect to losing existing sponsors.

Not many brands big enough to be involved in tennis sponsorship would appreciate the public negativity towards them that would likely come with their being accused of homophobia.

None of the big international sporting brands would dare drop someone because of their sexuality. They'd probably quite like to have a gay player on their books.

It might be a bit trickier to convince some of the non-sporting related sponsors to renew contracts, especially if they are relying on an image that isn't just a simple "good at tennis" one. If a player was promoting Lynx body spray, and the adverts were all about getting mobbed by girls, it might raise some eye-brows, but hopefully a gay player thinking of coming out would have avoided those sorts of deals in the first place. :lol:

 

[Relinquis]

A top French, or Western European player coming out wouldn't be an issue. People are enlightened about this stuff.

Tennis isn't a local sport like NFL, Baseball or Basketball*. It's global, all players on tour have traveled and seen different ways of being and have met players from very different cultures. Tennis is also an individual sport, so there is less pressure to conform to a standardised way of being. You're on tour in South America, then the Middle East, then Asia then Europe. You understand how superficial things that we use to differentiate between one another really are. You don't get this experience playing for the best team in the NFL or NBA. Being gay or not is a non-issue in tennis. A couple of top Football players "coming out", i.e. superstars, will have a similar effect on corporate sponsors and fans adjusting. They're already gay, they're just hiding it.

If Christiano Ronaldo, or Nadal or someone of that stature came out, it would be a non-issue for corporate sponsors. They're so good and so important and so talented that the fans would adjust. Not the other way around. People are a lot more tolerant than you think.


* Basketball leagues are local in nature. Not like Football where clubs compete internationally.

 

[Tanya]

I actually have male friends who are gay since childhood. I had my suspicions but never condemned them of it. You didn't think about that. You clearly did not read my previous posts that society doesn't know what to demand anymore. They support one issue and argue against another thing which contradicts multiple issues. Another form of self-contradiction and inconsistency.

This happens.

Having gay friends does not make you an expert on the inner struggles of a homosexual individual...and in this case, in general society is pretty set on its expectations of men. There's no denying that gay males face much discrimination, is it really so wrong for a person to try and conform to avoid that?

I only took issue with your stance that it was 100% ethically and morally wrong for a homosexual to try and lead a heterosexual life, because it's not like they are trying to purposely harm people. In most cases, as someone else has already mentioned, these individuals are suffering even more.

 

[Overdrive]

None of the big international sporting brands would dare drop someone because of their sexuality. They'd probably quite like to have a gay player on their books.

It might be a bit trickier to convince some of the non-sporting related sponsors to renew contracts, especially if they are relying on an image that isn't just a simple "good at tennis" one. If a player was promoting Lynx body spray, and the adverts were all about getting mobbed by girls, it might raise some eye-brows, but hopefully a gay player thinking of coming out would have avoided those sorts of deals in the first place. :lol:

You should remember that being gay and involved in anything (honestly, anything) is a double edged sword.

Your example of a brand keeping a gay player would also mean consumers who don't accept gays won't buy their brands anymore.The opposite would be if a brand ends their sponsorship with a gay player, the dozens of organizations would blacklist them as products not to buy. Either way, they would lose money.

Companies love money!!!