BetaServe
Professional
what . a . serveHello guys this is my brother doing the kick serve challenge
Greetings!
what . a . serveHello guys this is my brother doing the kick serve challenge
Greetings!
Wow! What's your brother's tennis background? ATP ranking?Hello guys this is my brother doing the kick serve challenge
Greetings!
yo where is your vid TS?Wow! What's your brother's tennis background? ATP ranking?
I've been playing tennis give or take 32 years and I have only hit my partner in the back twice.
Pretty good odds!
J
Its shrewd. When he humuliates us all from the vids we take then its that much easier for us to buy his new training courses. And the nanaoparticles in the prizes he sent now control our minds...J011Y-6 mind control is real man.@J011yroger same here. Very kind of you! Cheers
TW should drop you a sponsorship.
The other thing this did was get me out w the camera and get me viewing/working on my serve. As a result, I’m now engaging a bigger stretch and deeper drop and getting more mph.
was messing with this serve again trying to make a better vid. Its ok. But thanks to @Curious that serve is ruined for me. Here are the questions:
1. How do you make it hit the back fence?
2. I was playing with hitting really loose like the racquet coming out of the hand loose. Is that the deal? I don;t have a death grip but its not a loose as I was hitting today. Seemed to get more spin...
3. There never seems to be any twist that shows up on vid. How do you capture that?
was messing with this serve again trying to make a better vid. Its ok. But thanks to @Curious that serve is ruined for me. Here are the questions:
1. How do you make it hit the back fence?
2. I was playing with hitting really loose like the racquet coming out of the hand loose. Is that the deal? I don;t have a death grip but its not a loose as I was hitting today. Seemed to get more spin...
3. There never seems to be any twist that shows up on vid. How do you capture that?
was messing with this serve again trying to make a better vid. Its ok. But thanks to @Curious that serve is ruined for me. Here are the questions:
1. How do you make it hit the back fence?
2. I was playing with hitting really loose like the racquet coming out of the hand loose. Is that the deal? I don;t have a death grip but its not a loose as I was hitting today. Seemed to get more spin...
3. There never seems to be any twist that shows up on vid. How do you capture that?
Practice topspin serves to land the ball as close to the net as possible.
Stance - ranges from platform to semi-open stance and open stance.
Grip - I used my forehand grip between eastern forehand and semi-western.
I didn't use an active arm to serve and didn't try to swing the arm fast. I tried to have a very loose wrist and let arm to be passive. The goal is to let the body to contribute more in pace and spin generation and minimize arm's contribution.
You don't need to use continental grip to do it.
Practice topspin serves to land the ball as close to the net as possible.
Stance - ranges from platform to semi-open stance and open stance.
Grip - I used my forehand grip between eastern forehand and semi-western.
I didn't use an active arm to serve and didn't try to swing the arm fast. I tried to have a very loose wrist and let arm to be passive. The goal is to let the body to contribute more in pace and spin generation and minimize arm's contribution.
You don't need to use continental grip to do it.
You could also serve underhand, but it will really limit the potential effectiveness of the serve. The thing about good serving is it's effective even after your opponent knows how you hit it. I don't think that serve is going to be all that effective once your opponent sees it unless you can get more speed and spin on it. But it looks like it could work for lower level rec play. Might be more useful in doubles where you have a net man to gobble up the reply.
It's going to be hard to significantly increase the speed with that grip because you are effectively eliminating the pronation you need to swing fast without hurting your wrist.
I was just speaking with regards to his comments on how to hit it. Like I said, technically you could hit an underhand serve and accomplish the goal, but I wouldn't advocate for it. Maybe he was just trying to prove it could be done with non-conventional technique which has some merit, but I think I'd go catholic nun on a student that was practicing serves with a forehand grip. Just makes me cringe when I see it, and I see it a lot. Makes me cringe even more when I see kids working with coaches that are content to let them practice that way. I have dealt with many older kids and adults who struggle mightily to break those early habits. I feel like they are just ruining their chance to have a good serve down the road.Hey, the challenge was laid down and he met it.
You could also serve underhand, but it will really limit the potential effectiveness of the serve. The thing about good serving is it's effective even after your opponent knows how you hit it. I don't think that serve is going to be all that effective once your opponent sees it unless you can get more speed and spin on it. But it looks like it could work for lower level rec play. Might be more useful in doubles where you have a net man to gobble up the reply.
It's going to be hard to significantly increase the speed with that grip because you are effectively eliminating the pronation you need to swing fast without hurting your wrist.
Players were taught to use pronation to increase pace in serves. If you use continental grip, pronation maybe the best way. But I found that both continental grip and pronation are just myths. You can use forehand grips and open stances with a passive arm to serve without much pronation. It can be effective if not more effective than the conventional serves.
Well if you have a problem with your shoulder or wrist a forehand grip might be more effective, but to claim it's more effective in general is absolutely preposterous.
Show me a serve with a non-continental forehand grip without pronation that tops 100mph and I might reconsider. If it actually were more effective there would be a lot of really good servers out there in rec land because the majority of them are probably hitting with a forehand grip and if they break 70mph they are doing really well.
@oserver if you had tennis elbow problems and your 3O serve technique allows you to keep playing and serving, that's great.
Many players have to make adjustments of some sort as they age and/or get injured. This could be shot selection, racquet, strategy or even technique.
Like @J011yroger , I am impressed that you took on the challenge and did. I didn't think it was possible with a FH grip. Looks like a lot of posters didn't even attempt it or perhaps they did, but couldn't do it.
What this challenge is about? It seems you just could not focus?! Is this kind of kick serve about the pace? Are we in a serve speed contest?
First you brought about the underhand serve; what's your point? Only your serves were good? Any serves slower than your's were not good enough to pass, or they only be compatible with underhand serves?
Happy to hear that.Second, I don't have shoulder or wrist problem with my serving arm. I had tennis elbow problem for years in the past, but since I changed to 3O serves (Open Stance, Open Grip, Open Wrist/Passive Arm), the problem had gone.
Third, like many coaches who don't think any possible alternatives without using continental grip and pronation, you have this fixation in your mind. For the last 4 years, many posters here in these TW forums regarded my serve as pancake serve, beginner serve. etc., even they knew I had a USTA 4.0 rating and hold a USPTA coaching certificate.
Now many stopped to call me that way; maybe there is no way a pancake server can produce topspin serve like I did in some of my serve videos. I'd like to see if anyone can pass this challenge using a real pancake serve. In another thread where @Shroud and I were often in the colliding path, he repeatedly asked me to join this challenge, hoping I would be afraid to join or fail the test.
Forth, what do you think my serves would be if I have your hight and weight (I'm 5'7" and weighted about 133, using a light 10.6 ounce racket), and as young as you (I'm two or three times older than you; you'll be glad if you have my shape and can still play single in my age).
Be open and try to learn something you don't know from others. Don't act and talk like a big shot!
@J011yroger here is a video I did back in Sep 29, 2014. It will be interesting to do another challenge with the knee down version like in the video. My knee position was a little far from the T, but I think I can do it using the same rule as your current one without difficulties. Please let me know your thought. Thanks.
Don't encourage them.Keep trying new things!
J
Nice video. I wonder what your thoughts are on the serves from the knees where you were pronating. Would you say they were any better or worse than the serves where you didn't pronate?
That video is 4 years old.
The math here is a simple one. If we divided the 100% power production by both the arm and body (everything below the arm), the less the arm's contribution will shift more to body's contribution.
lol. From one of my favorite movies, Bagger Vance...
Rannulph Junnah:
I could have killed you out there!
Bagger Vance:
Oh no sir, see I set myself directly in front of ya. Judgin' how you were hittin' them balls that's where I figure I'd be out of harms way.
Any thoughts on Thiem’s open stance serve from the deuce side using “closed stanced techniques” as seen in his training video?That video is 4 years old. I opened stance and grip but were still using closed stance techniques - active arm and pronation, etc.. It took me a long time to realize that forms (stance and grip) need suitable techniques to match each other. Serves using opened stance and open grip need to match the open wrist and passive arm just like what has been there for forehand strokes. This is why I call my serves Forehand Serves. Lagging arm or passive arm has proved very effective in producing power.
The math here is a simple one. If we divided the 100% power production by both the arm and body (everything below the arm), the less the arm's contribution will shift more to body's contribution. The body's muscles are a lot more powerful than arm's muscles, thus the weak arm or passive arm is better than strong arm or active arm. This has been proven by modern forehand. Beginners always hit the ball with active, fast swing arm, the result is obvious.
The second argument is as important as the the above math. When you hit a ball with a passive arm with the wrist at extension state, you can have a loose wrist and arm that can absorb the ball well so it can stay on the string bed longer. This give the body more time to drive the ball. The conventional serves that employ the quick arm swing with pronation and wrist flexing give arm too much contribution in power generation (30% was the number in a ITF recommendation paper published in 2007), depriving some portion (rightfully belong to the body) from the body.
Above is a short summary of thinking or methodology behind the Forehand Serve. In tennis, apparently we have two main systems of thinking and practice. One is represented by modern forehand, another is represented by conventional serve (or modern serve which didn't evolve like the forehand in last twenty or so years.) One can say that modern forehand is ahead of it's time in comparison to the very slow evolution of modern serve, or modern serve is falling far behind of modern forehand, form wise and technique wise. Either way, in a long run, I don't see the possibility of parallel coexistence. Survival of the fittest will apply.
All indications I see are pointing to the modern forehand model as the winner. The benefit for the early adaptors can be significant. Since player's learning and training can be simplified a lot. A coach can say these to a young boy or girl: the way I teach you how to serve is the same way I teach you your forehand, or vice verse. The only difference is one is a overhead shot, another is mostly hit under your shoulder. Your stance, grip and the way you use your wrist and arm are all the same. Think about how powerful these message can be; how much time one can save and how fast players can develop their playing ability under this new unified system.
Ok, you guy must be bored now to read above futuristic fantasies. Today is the first day of 2019, maybe any new wish should be ok
It certainly is proven by your vids...That video is 4 years old. I opened stance and grip but were still using closed stance techniques - active arm and pronation, etc.. It took me a long time to realize that forms (stance and grip) need suitable techniques to match each other. Serves using opened stance and open grip need to match the open wrist and passive arm just like what has been there for forehand strokes. This is why I call my serves Forehand Serves. Lagging arm or passive arm has proved very effective in producing power.
Just finished mixed practice, popped into Applebee's for a Bud Light and some mozzarella sticks and guess what was on.
J
Budlight and Mozzarella sticks! J011Y Recovery program! Can't wait for your whole system.Just finished mixed practice, popped into Applebee's for a Bud Light and some mozzarella sticks and guess what was on.
J
Any thoughts on Thiem’s open stance serve from the deuce side using “closed stanced techniques” as seen in his training video?
I am wondering how many rules I am breaking (1: being a lefty, 2: being half red-haired, 3: doing things that should be banned by the physiotherapists committee ...)
reverse serveI discover lately that fun thread... I don't really want to kill the planet by having you sending stuff over the ocean so I submit my modest contribution for free :
I am wondering how many rules I am breaking (1: being a lefty, 2: being half red-haired, 3: doing things that should be banned by the physiotherapists committee ...)
(ok I'm spamming with my serve video but to my great surprise nobody told anything about this weird one which I call inverted slice - I don't even know if it has a name or known players doing it regularly)
ok I'm spamming with my serve video but to my great surprise nobody told anything about this weird one which I call inverted slice - I don't even know if it has a name or known players doing it regularly)
i am still trying to do your serve challenge from last year well, my version of it anyway... particularly the deuce out wide slice serve the crosses the dubs alley before it crosses the baseline (or better if it hits the side fence)...
Now that February has come and the kick serve challenge is over...
Is anyone up for a slice serve challenge?
I have seen several posters talking about working on their slice serves. Maybe a challenge would bring out some videos and some good discussion???
I'll do it but I'm only offering one prize this time!
J
That's really cool!!Reverse slice technically - although people often just call it reverse serve.