Nadal criticises Madrid Masters

[stormholloway]

third, whats his complaint with blue clay? he says history and tradition, then remove clay and carpet and hardcourts all together. o wait that surely wouldnt please him either.

i call and spade and spade no matter who is speaking. this is the first time ive had to call nadal out on a press conference for being obsrud. and anyone else going crazy over blue clay better realize quickly that people alot smarter than you and me have made these decisions, and they are trying to save our beloved sport. you know, the one with the worst ratings and viewer numbers on the freaking planet. let them experiement, if its helps bring in fans and tennis revenue then its good. if it doesnt then you can sit back and give all the i told you sos you want. if tradition really meant that much to anyone wimbledon wouldnt now have a roof. that should be 100345856842590 times more prevelant than blue clay.

Exactly. People need to let these businesses do what they do to a certain extent: bring in revenues, i.e. grow the sport.

About blue clay, you're plain wrong. What's next, paint the grass red? It won't bring any spectators and will purely and simply ruin clay as a surface.
Finally, Nadal is totally entitled to have his opinions and express them. His opinions are at least as valid as yours (as a pro player's they're probably more valid actually). You're free to disagree but you have absolutely no business and no prerogative to "call him out on it". That is 100% out of line.

It's funny when people who are wrong accuse others of being "plain wrong". You sir, don't know what you're talking about. Brick is not grass. It's artificial to begin with. Coloring crushed brick is no different than coloring a hard court in principle, and by the way: green clay already exists and plays quite well (in my opinion better than red).

How is calling him out "out of line"? What the hell are you talking about?

And your comparison to coloring grass is ridiculous. Grass is a plant. It has a natural color to it. Clay and hardcourts are artificial. There is no comparison. And there is no evidence that dying brick one color or another makes it play different, regardless of what every mental case on the ATP tour says.

the color of clay is a simple addition , there is no tradition to the color of the clay events, in actuality clay itself is gray or a shade of brown depending on where its from. (altrhough there is such a thing as red clay as well but its slick like mud) The crushed bricks used today are colored before baking the bricks just as it would be if they were blue. the paintjob has ZERO effect on the court surface. everyone just needs to takea chill pill on these court colored events. hardcourts have been painted differently, grass has been changed several times, grass is grass is grass. clay is clay is clay, hardcourts MIGHT have a slight change due to their paint but i even doubt that.

if it brings in 50,000 more viewers worldwide, can these pros not get off their "world revolves around me high horse" and have an open mind for the better interest of the game


ask yourself this, if the clay is blue would you NOT watch? nearly zero % of the viewers will boycott it, now if its blue and it gains some people or advertisers from it, which is better form tennis.

and worst case scenario, if it doesnt work out at least worth the trouble, then its a one time things that will not change the sport of tennis in any negative way, but has the potential to do good things for the game.

there is 2 views as a player and a fan.

selfish and open minded. no more, no less.

Good post. This person gets it.

 

[stormholloway]

Changing surface and venue every 5 minutes may be fine for Americans but it's totally contrary to European core values and cultural beliefs of honoring the past and maintaining meaningful traditions.

Apparently not!

And what is meaningful about the tradition of the Madrid tournament? It was played on an indoor hard court last year. It has no meaningful tradition. To my knowledge, it used to be played in Stuttgart. Nobody is changing Roland Garros. This is one tournament and it stands alone. Tradition does not apply here.

 

[FlamEnemY]

Changing the color shouldn't effect the quality of the court, therefore I see little to no reason not to make the clay blue. This would be quite a refreshing change - something new and interesting. This way the tournament would be easily recognized with the desire of innovations - the stadium alone is marvolous. New, unorthodox aspects of the game - be it only change of the color - will bring more fans and interest the casual TV viewer.
I think this is a great idea. For the sake of progress people need to break the well accepted rules. The worst case scenario is wasting some blue painted clay.

 

[gj011]

I agree with veroniquem, Nadal and Federer. Change is not always good.
What is the point of blue clay.
And I still don`t see it how would this bring more revenue and raise audience.

 

[deltox]

I agree with veroniquem, Nadal and Federer. Change is not always good.
What is the point of blue clay.
And I still don`t see it how would this bring more revenue and raise audience.

i gave you the main reasoning ive found so far, its easier to follow the yellow ball on tv and net streams when a blue background is used vs a red one. again whats the harm in trying it.

 

[gj011]

i gave you the main reasoning ive found so far, its easier to follow the yellow ball on tv and net streams when a blue background is used vs a red one. again whats the harm in trying it.

There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Also I don`t buy that it is hard to follow the ball on clay. I have never had problems seeing the ball on red clay.
This reminds me on, when they tried that new high tech puck in NHL that glows on TV screen, since TV audience apparently had problems following the puck. Everyone hated it, especially hardcore hockey fans, it and it was quickly abandoned. I hope the same will happen with this blue clay nonsense.

 

[egn]

I don't see the huge deal. If it plays like red clay what is the problem? It is not like it is har tur or something..

 

[dem331]

http://************.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/nadal-gives-ivanovic-a-lift-on-a-private-plane/
The spanish are notorious cheaters

just watch football*, the mediteranean countires single handedly invented every cheating tactic that is used today

football=soccer

You are pathetic. There is no need to be racist. I guess that it helps you cover up your underlying insecurity.

 

[samster]

In which picture does Nadal look happier :roll:

The 1st one?!? :shock:

 

[deltox]

There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Also I don`t buy that it is hard to follow the ball on clay. I have never had problems seeing the ball on red clay.
This reminds me on, when they tried that new high tech puck in NHL that glows on TV screen, since TV audience apparently had problems following the puck. Everyone hated it, especially hardcore hockey fans, it and it was quickly abandoned. I hope the same will happen with this blue clay nonsense.

again they are using science, while we are using opinions to make decisions. we can debate all day if you wish but our opinions and those of almost all "hardcore" tennis fans mean VERY little to the science and revenue of the sport.

I ask you the same quesiton i posed to veronique, would you boycott the match if its on blue clay?


to tennis fans the play means more than the court color, but to a brand new viewer who skips over it on tv while channel surfing, it may well grab their attention long enough for them to start the addiction we share.

were is the real harm in it, are you going to loose sleep?

on this thread i have given enough logical reasons for the change even if temporary, those arguing to the contrary have only offered personal feelings to back up their wishes. if this is the debate going on over blue clay, the surface will be blue next year.

 

[djones]

i gave you the main reasoning ive found so far, its easier to follow the yellow ball on tv and net streams when a blue background is used vs a red one. again whats the harm in trying it.

Then they might as well play with red tennisballs at Wimbledon.

 

[veroniquem]

Well, Madrid is a new tournament. So any changes are going to effect all players equally. It's not as if Nadal played on the Red clay of Madrid last year, and played the tournament of his life. I would understand the annoyance of fans and players if they changed the colour of clay at RG.

Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

 

[thejoe]

Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

But changing the Wimbledon grass was fine?

 

[veroniquem]

lol, your grasping at straws now.



facts, i need facts. not whining from players, or opinions about color coordination. simple and coherent facts please.

the question i posed to you, is would you NOT watch if its blue? if your answer if yes, your fibbing, if its no, then there is NO harm in it.

also, can you show me some pics of thse brick buildings please, during my visit there 4 years ago on vacation all we saw was basically stucko*(possibly misspelled) of differing colors with one of the most prevelant being mediterranean blue, although most did have the red shingles made of a clay substance.

The fact is THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE THE COLOR. If there is no good reason for doing something, then you don't do it, as simple as that. I've seen the blue court, it's beyond ugly + blue is already the color of many American courts. The reason Tiriac gives is beyond dumb. He wants the color to match THE SPONSOR color. That is beyond outrageous. What happens when the sponsor changes? They're gonna resurface everything? There's a limit to how much money is ruling the world and that's the limit right here. If the new sponsor had a zebra emblem , I don't want the courts to be revamped in BLACk AND WHITE STRIPES. I am totally revolted at the idea that some people claiming to be genuine tennis fans could find that idea even remotely acceptable. The world is greedy and brainless enough as it is.

 

[FlamEnemY]

Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

But how come changing the color is making the surface completely different? This is like saying a red Ferrari is different from a blue Ferrari.

 

[veroniquem]

But changing the Wimbledon grass was fine?

Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

 

[deltox]

The fact is THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE THE COLOR. If there is no good reason for doing something, then you don't do it, as simple as that. I've seen the blue court, it's beyond ugly + blue is already the color of many American courts. The reason Tiriac gives is beyond dumb. He wants the color to match THE SPONSOR color. That is beyond outrageous. What happens when the sponsor changes? They're gonna resurface everything? There's a limit to how much money is ruling the world and that's the limit right here. If the new sponsor had a zebra emblem , I don't want the courts to be revamped in BLACk AND WHITE STRIPES. I am totally revolted at the idea that some people claiming to be genuine tennis fans could find that idea even remotely acceptable. The world is greedy and brainless enough as it is.

its quite obvious how revolted you are, but luckily for us the tennis qorld does not play to please you. Many times when change was mentioned it was trashed by nay sayers and hated by haters but in the end it turned out to be the best thing. your lack of open mindedness is more revolting and ridiculous than any change to any event. You need to understand that you and Raf are not gonna be a pair no matter how much you worship him. you have yet to deny anything ive proven and you have yet to prove anything in itself, it is still science and trial and error vs your opinion. ill give you ten guesses which one will win out, and the first 9 dont count.

ok?

so can we pelase drop this stupidness, the ATP doesnt read these forums for advice and neither does the beloved rafa, lets enjoy tennis for the sport that it is before stick in the mud people such as yourself force it into total obscurity. far be it for some free thinker to have an idea that you disagree with right?

also, without the greed you so dubiously point out, you would have NO chance to watch this sport except in live apperances. dont be such a damn hater, geesh.

 

[deltox]

Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

clay will still be clay, changing the clay color is by no means any more detremental to the game than changing the breed of grass used.


everyone can see its all about what nadal thinks to you, sadly to most of us who are not nadal worshippers its apparent that your opinions are 100% biased.

 

[deltox]

I dont think anyone would want to change RG clay...What I dont understand is how the blue clay at Madrid is a 'completely different surface'...I'm no expert, but surely changing the pigment will not induce a big difference in the playing characteristics of the surface. Any info on this would be welcome??..

they have none, ive been begging for the science to back up the claims for 2+ pages now, while only 2-3 on this entire thread even remotely backup this dislike for blue clay (all nadal fans or favor nadal)

 

[veroniquem]

I dont think anyone would want to change RG clay...What I dont understand is how the blue clay at Madrid is a 'completely different surface'...I'm no expert, but surely changing the pigment will not induce a big difference in the playing characteristics of the surface. Any info on this would be welcome??..

Apparently it does. The justifications have to come from the people who want the change, not the opposite and so far I haven't seen any sensible justification as to why this change would be either necessary or even desirable.

 

[icedevil0289]

Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

well in that case, whats the difference for blue clay and red clay. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing they play the same way. Like you said about grass, clay is still clay, but different color. And as far as the grass goes in wimbledon, the grass does not play the same way it used to, so thats more of a change than changing from red clay to blue clay. So much for tradition. I don't think they should change the clay anyway, but just saying.

 

[thejoe]

Last time I looked, the grass was still grass: it is made of little green blades that are called grass: it's not plastic or synthetic imitation grass, it's grass. That's all I'm asking for.

Yes, but it has changed drastically, and the style of play on it is unrecognisable. Going by that logic, they could do whatever they want to the clay, but as long as it is red crushed brick, you won't care? So, it somehow they sped it up, and serve-volley came back on clay (obviously it won't, but hypothetically) that wouldn't matter, as long as it was red?

 

[icedevil0289]

they have none, ive been begging for the science to back up the claims for 2+ pages now, while only 2-3 on this entire thread even remotely backup this dislike for blue clay (all nadal fans or favor nadal)

yet they have no problem with the grass at wimbledon being slowed down, which imo, is a bigger change than changing the color of clay and then they talk about tradition.

 

[veroniquem]

its quite obvious how revolted you are, but luckily for us the tennis qorld does not play to please you. Many times when change was mentioned it was trashed by nay sayers and hated by haters but in the end it turned out to be the best thing. your lack of open mindedness is more revolting and ridiculous than any change to any event. You need to understand that you and Raf are not gonna be a pair no matter how much you worship him. you have yet to deny anything ive proven and you have yet to prove anything in itself, it is still science and trial and error vs your opinion. ill give you ten guesses which one will win out, and the first 9 dont count.

ok?

so can we pelase drop this stupidness, the ATP doesnt read these forums for advice and neither does the beloved rafa, lets enjoy tennis for the sport that it is before stick in the mud people such as yourself force it into total obscurity. far be it for some free thinker to have an idea that you disagree with right?

also, without the greed you so dubiously point out, you would have NO chance to watch this sport except in live apperances. dont be such a damn hater, geesh.

I'm just expressing my opinion, obviously the ATP will do what they want but I find it reassuring that the opposition will be massive as this idea has already been criticized by a lot of people.

 

[deltox]

Then they might as well play with red tennisballs at Wimbledon.

id be fine with that as well, if it was helpful, which it suppose it could be. but lets start with a non slam grass event to test it, KINDA LIKE MADRID IS WANTING TO DO!!!!

i have actually played with orange tennis balls before on an indoor carpet court to improve visibility (the carpet was a yellowish green for some reason), it was NO DIFFERENT!!!

 

[maximo]

Unless you want to change RG clay, which is really a disrespectful idea IMO, you can't play the last preparatory master on clay on a completely different surface. It doesn't make any kind of sense. Also European clay has always been very distinct from US clay. Tiriac is a clown, always has been and still is apparently.

la couleur de terre battue ne change pas grand chose.

 

[deltox]

I'm just expressing my opinion, obviously the ATP will do what they want but I find it reassuring that the opposition will be massive as this idea has already been criticized by a lot of people.

shurg, its their burden to bare.

 

[veroniquem]

well in that case, whats the difference for blue clay and red clay. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing they play the same way. Like you said about grass, clay is still clay, but different color. And as far as the grass goes in wimbledon, the grass does not play the same way it used to, so thats more of a change than changing from red clay to blue clay. So much for tradition. I don't think they should change the clay anyway, but just saying.

The colour takes a different process and the players have already said it doesn't play the same. It looks bad, it is less good quality. I have no idea why anyone would defend it.

 

[deltox]

Apparently it does. The justifications have to come from the people who want the change, not the opposite and so far I haven't seen any sensible justification as to why this change would be either necessary or even desirable.

one scientific link please, player and fans opinions do not count here. we all know how supersticious* they can be.

 

[deltox]

The colour takes a different process and the players have already said it doesn't play the same. It looks bad, it is less good quality. I have no idea why anyone would defend it.

because we want to see our beloved sport grow, not continue to fade away. watch what you wish for, in the coming years if something doesnt change, youll only have TV coverage of slams and possibly the year end. fewer and fewer tourneys are being televised as time goes on. its time to make a change in some way or loose our sport forever. why is this still a tough decision for you?

 

[veroniquem]

la couleur de terre battue ne change pas grand chose.

Ce n'est pas vrai parce que la pigmentation est obtenue avec differents materiaux. De toute facon l'idee est esthetiquement absurde et motivee par l'appat du gain, pas le desir d'ameliorer la qualite du sport donc pour moi a rejeter vigoureusement.

 

[tennis-hero]

You are pathetic. There is no need to be racist. I guess that it helps you cover up your underlying insecurity.

who's insecure

3 of the 4 in the Champions league semis were from england

its common knowledge that spanish and italian football allows cheating as a legitimate tactic

its in their nature

and as much as i love C.Ron, he's a cheater

 

[deltox]

The colour takes a different process and the players have already said it doesn't play the same. It looks bad, it is less good quality. I have no idea why anyone would defend it.

explain this different process please.

its the dry chemical is introduced with the same molecular makeup except one pigment for color then baked to harden then crushed, how can it be so different? you lack logic in your argument.

 

[thejoe]

^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...

 

[veroniquem]

because we want to see our beloved sport grow, not continue to fade away. watch what you wish for, in the coming years if something doesnt change, youll only have TV coverage of slams and possibly the year end. fewer and fewer tourneys are being televised as time goes on. its time to make a change in some way or loose our sport forever. why is this still a tough decision for you?

Blue clay is not gonna make the sport grow in any way. Are you aware of the word "demagogy"? Why not put acrobats and jugglers doing tricks on the court during the side change? Anyway this change is NOT proposed for the sake of either the fans or the players. It's proposed for strictly business issues, it's of the same line of thought as putting big sponsor emblems in the middle of the net. No good for the sport can stem from that.

 

[deltox]

^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...

its super clear to everyone here where her motives lie. thus making 99% of all her posts without merit.

 

[deltox]

Blue clay is not gonna make the sport grow in any way. Are you aware of the word "demagogy"? Why not put acrobats and jugglers doing tricks on the court during the side change? Anyway this changed is NOT proposed for the sake of either the fans or the players. It's proposed for strictly business issues, it's of the same line of thought as putting big sponsor emblems in the middle of the net. No good for the sport can stem from that.

i say again, it was supposed to and proven to be more visible for TV viewers. prove that statement wrong or you have no grounds for this statement above.

also those horrible business issues you speak of is why, yet again i repeat myself, you can watch this sport on television or net streams.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Plus the blue clay looks ugly. Have you seen pictures of it? Uh

 

[deltox]

Plus the blue clay looks ugly. Have you seen pictures of it? Uh

you couldnt have had better timing with your chime in, rofl.

can someone other than a nadal fan please rebuke this idea on this thread today?

 

[veroniquem]

^Plus, I doubt it will be as drastic as the change seen at Wimbledon, but you don't see her whinging about that. I wonder why...

Please give me a detailed explanation of how the "old" grass is different from the "new" grass because I can't SEE any difference in it. As I said it's little green soft blades and noone has painted it or used chemicals on it. It's grass.

 

[icedevil0289]

There is a harm, messing with tradition and ruining the experience for faithful and dedicated fans and players as well.

Also I don`t buy that it is hard to follow the ball on clay. I have never had problems seeing the ball on red clay.
This reminds me on, when they tried that new high tech puck in NHL that glows on TV screen, since TV audience apparently had problems following the puck. Everyone hated it, especially hardcore hockey fans, it and it was quickly abandoned. I hope the same will happen with this blue clay nonsense.

tradition? Messing with the wimbly grass and slowing it down was not messing with tradition and the fans of s&v tennis?

 

[deltox]

Please give me a detailed explanation of how the "old" grass is different from the "new" grass because I can't SEE any difference in it. As I said it's little green soft blades and noone has painted it or used chemicals on it. It's grass.

grass comes in different breeds, do a google search or wikipedia. some breeds are more dry and if you run your hands thru them it will literally cut your skin, others are smooth and the opposite will happen to your hand when you run thru it.


well, this conversation/debate is getting boring as its only with a few boased fans. wmaybe you guys will have better luck then I at convincing the haters to give it a simple chance. nothing more than a chance.

 

[veroniquem]

i say again, it was supposed to and proven to be more visible for TV viewers. prove that statement wrong or you have no grounds for this statement above.

also those horrible business issues you speak of is why, yet again i repeat myself, you can watch this sport on television or net streams.

TVs are gonna all become high definition. There is 0 problem to see the ball with current TV technology. Totally lame argument.

 

[veroniquem]

grass comes in different breeds, do a google search or wikipedia. some breeds are more dry and if you run your hands thru them it will literally cut your skin, others are smooth and the opposite will happen to your hand when you run thru it.

Yes and the different breeds are still all grass and look exactly similar.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

The fact is they shouldn't change the color of clay. Red, orange, and yellow are all fine colors. The Har-Tru is fine as well as that is pretty natural coloring.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Vamos Rafa and down with Tiriac.

 

[deltox]

Yes and the different breeds are still all grass and look exactly similar.

look does not = feel and grip of the grass. are you seriously stooping this low to argue with baseless sentences? have a nice day, i cannot get inot this any deeper with you, but your local community college can help you with this matter further.

 

[thejoe]

Please give me a detailed explanation of how the "old" grass is different from the "new" grass because I can't SEE any difference in it. As I said it's little green soft blades and noone has painted it or used chemicals on it. It's grass.

Right, but they have changed the way it plays by changing the way it is packed down (I think Agassi has commented on it at length). I'm not disputing the surface aesthetics, I'm disputing the change in the way it plays. The colour is irrelevant. The problem I have is that you are worrying about the ways in which the surface will play differently, and then you ignore the obvious change in play at Wimbledon. If the surface plays the same, why are you complaining about the colour? It doesn't matter.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Btw players seeing the ball earlier helps the attacking players. They are able to hit the ball on the rise easier and pressure the grinders. So there is definitely a different feel with changing colors. Maybe not the actual bounce but the way they play.

 

[deltox]

The fact is they shouldn't change the color of clay. Red, orange, and yellow are all fine colors. The Har-Tru is fine as well as that is pretty natural coloring.

read this thread entirely please. would you as a tennis fan rather watch blue clay matches once per year, or loose televised matches per year. of course this is stretching the facts by a great extent, but until its tried who really knows. check the nielsen ratings over the past decade or so, were loosing this sport entirely.

League time, have fun with this debate.