New Volkl/Becker stuff for '08'

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
In addition to the c10pro cosmetic change;

Becker Pro

Becker11 Mid

Volkl Scorcher - price point frame like BB5

This is all the info I have just now. no specs. no pics. no hitters.

Personally, I've been ralleying for a Gen2 w. the juice, and am hoping that might be the Becker Pro, but the trend is for lighter and less headlightness.
 

Swan Song

Professional
In addition to the c10pro cosmetic change;

Becker Pro

Becker11 Mid

Volkl Scorcher - price point frame like BB5

This is all the info I have just now. no specs. no pics. no hitters.

Personally, I've been ralleying for a Gen2 w. the juice, and am hoping that might be the Becker Pro, but the trend is for lighter and less headlightness.

Hopefully the Becker11 Mid is lighter than the DNX 10 Mid but with an awesome ball feel.
 

Chauvalito

Hall of Fame
Can anyone speculate on the string pattern of the Becker Mid?

The becker Pro sounds cool as well.

Volkl did make a mid with an 18x20, the C7 pro tour i think, a few pros played with this racket for a while. (Mikeal tillstrom i think)
 

TourTenor

Professional
Appreciate the Heads Up ...

NBMJ,
Thanks for the heads up. I realize you don't have more information but I will be interested to find out whether either or both the Becker Pro or the Becker 11 mid are 16X19? I'm also hoping to see that 315-318 SW in one or both. Also, I am wondering if the B11 mid will replace the DNX10mid or will it have completely different specs? Again, I know you don't have more info or any of these sticks, just yet, but look forward to hearing about the details.
TT
 

Chauvalito

Hall of Fame
Volkl Guys,

I am currently waiting for a couple of brand new Volkl C7's to arrive from Japan. This is the red version with the thinner beam width.

You would not believe the hoops I jumped through to get these, I think it will be worth it though.

Just wanted to let you know.
 

meowmix

Hall of Fame
In addition to the c10pro cosmetic change;

Becker Pro

Becker11 Mid

Volkl Scorcher - price point frame like BB5

This is all the info I have just now. no specs. no pics. no hitters.

Personally, I've been ralleying for a Gen2 w. the juice, and am hoping that might be the Becker Pro, but the trend is for lighter and less headlightness.

Thanks NBMJ! Please post pics if and when you get them!:)
 

SamSung

Rookie
NoBadMojo,do you know when they are planning to release these new racquets? Will it be in time for the Australian Open when a lot of other companies debut their new gear or will it come much later in the year?
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Picture of Becker Pro at the website.

http://borisbecker.com/en/start/

Didnt see the Becker Pro. Think the picture you are talking about is the Becker11

NoBadMojo,do you know when they are planning to release these new racquets? Will it be in time for the Australian Open when a lot of other companies debut their new gear or will it come much later in the year?

The plan was to launch in time for the Aussie Open, but things seem to be a bit delayed at least in the US <i think>
 

sargeinaz

Hall of Fame
Didnt see the Becker Pro. Think the picture you are talking about is the Becker11

Really? Right when you click the link it has a picture of Ricards Berankis and it says "The Becker Pro is coming February 1st, 2008" and underneath is a white/orange racket. Thats not the Becker Pro?
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FaeKitty
 
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Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
^It does indeed. I wonder how the Becker Pro will differ from the BB 11 Mid+ and BB11 Mid.

It would appear that the Volkl line is going to sleep only to be replaced by an exact duplicate pod-racket with Becker logos on it. :)

In theaters February 2008!

Invasion of the Volkl Snatchers

Starring: Boris Becker
Supporting Cast: None - he got rid of the rest of the pros
Directed by: Boris Becker
Written by: Boris Becker (well copied by)
Choreograhed by: Boris Becker


Once the Becker 11 Mid shows up, I think the DNX 10 Mid will be as they say in your country "History"

The Borg are assimilating....

(OK, I couldn't resist...a tennis thread with a Star Trek Borg reference....it was just too easy, especially after the Invasion of the Body Snatchers reference)
 
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NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Really? Right when you click the link it has a picture of Ricards Berankis and it says "The Becker Pro is coming February 1st, 2008" and underneath is a white/orange racket. Thats not the Becker Pro?

gotcha..my bad. that didnt load in my usual browser, but did when i switched to another browser
 

sargeinaz

Hall of Fame
I would hope that they can keep both Volkl and BB and have them differentiate like a Toyota/Lexus type of thing. Perhaps BB could be closed string patterns and Volkl could be open or something like that. It wouldnt make business sense to just phase out Volkl since the brand has a lot of history behind it.
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Sex Rehab Dicussion
 
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Chauvalito

Hall of Fame
I would hope that they can keep both Volkl and BB and have them differentiate like a Toyota/Lexus type of thing. Perhaps BB could be closed string patterns and Volkl could be open or something like that. It wouldnt make business sense to just phase out Volkl since the brand has a lot of history behind it.

Thats a very good. I like the Lexus/Toyota analogy...

Head has sort of done that with its team and pro kine of rackets, and I think all of those rackets are doing well.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
I would hope that they can keep both Volkl and BB and have them differentiate like a Toyota/Lexus type of thing. Perhaps BB could be closed string patterns and Volkl could be open or something like that. It wouldnt make business sense to just phase out Volkl since the brand has a lot of history behind it.

they're not phasing out the Volkl name. that has been very clearly established around here multiple times and by more than one person who knows.

both lines will co-exist and the consumer will end up deciding how much emphasis is placed on each brand in each part of the world. believe it or not, there is a whole world which exists outside of the US

there will be the type of differentiation you mention...like Toyota/Lexus
 

Automatix

Legend
I can't wait when they release the BB11 Mid.. if it will go the way of the BB11 in terms of mass, swingweight and flex we can face a mid bestseller next year...
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
they evolved and more highly engineered the use of the dnx material in the Becker line. i can see them porting this improved use of the material into the Volkl line

Sounds like it's a more "player-friendly" incorporation of DNX technology. Wondering who owns the patents. I remember my demo of the DNX 10MP and the frame being quite efficient at generating power from the 18x20 stringbed. However, I wasn't hooked on the feel which was a marked departure from what I've been accustomed to with Volkl.

NBMJ, do you find the BB 11 to have playing characteristics that more closely resemble pre- DNX Volkl frames, but with DNX performance benefits? If this is so, then BB is really onto something special... Kinda like Prince's O-Port/Speedport technology, but with actual ball feel (non-muted response)...
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Sounds like it's a more "player-friendly" incorporation of DNX technology. Wondering who owns the patents. I remember my demo of the DNX 10MP and the frame being quite efficient at generating power from the 18x20 stringbed. However, I wasn't hooked on the feel which was a marked departure from what I've been accustomed to with Volkl.

NBMJ, do you find the BB 11 to have playing characteristics that more closely resemble pre- DNX Volkl frames, but with DNX performance benefits? If this is so, then BB is really onto something special... Kinda like Prince's O-Port/Speedport technology, but with actual ball feel (non-muted response)...

That's my take on the dnx stuff. it took me a while to warm up to the ball feel too of the Volkl DNX stuff having been weaned on wood and playing a power/feel sort of game. It wasnt like the feel was bad...it was just diffferent and was less homogenous than a c series frame. I think the new use of the material eliminates that. As I understand it, the problem with using the dnx material was one of how to make it a part of the frame. conventional methods didnt work because of the nature of the material. As to the Becker11, you should take one out for a dance since you know the dnx10mp..the specs are quite similar. think you will agree it is a nice step up

I think they've done a good job at making a traditional feeling racquet give you more of the juice so you can get both the power out of the stiffness of the dnx, but use softer more comfortable materials as an underlayment. essentially you get players frame type of feel with tweener type performance
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
That's my take on the dnx stuff. it took me a while to warm up to the ball feel too of the Volkl DNX stuff having been weaned on wood and playing a power/feel sort of game. It wasnt like the feel was bad...it was just diffferent and was less homogenous than a c series frame. I think the new use of the material eliminates that. As I understand it, the problem with using the dnx material was one of how to make it a part of the frame. conventional methods didnt work because of the nature of the material. As to the Becker11, you should take one out for a dance since you know the dnx10mp..the specs are quite similar. think you will agree it is a nice step up

I think they've done a good job at making a traditional feeling racquet give you more of the juice so you can get both the power out of the stiffness of the dnx, but use softer more comfortable materials as an underlayment. essentially you get players frame type of feel with tweener type performance

"Having been weaned on wood and playing a power/feel sort of game." Seems we have similar backgrounds and styles. We've also opted for similar frames in the C8 and T10(I)MP. I however, am still injured and on hard courts tearing up my joints.
In regard to the DNX frames, "It wasnt like the feel was bad...it was just diffferent and was less homogenous than a c series frame." My sentiments, precisely. No one could have explained this phenomenon better.

I recently acquired about half a dozen C8s in 8-10 condition and was planning to customize them to my specs, that is, until I started reading your posts on the BB11. Guess I will temporarily abandon my C8 project to play-test Becker's new orange monster. Being old-school and having lost a step (or two), I like the idea of essentially getting a "players frame type of feel with tweener type performance..." NBMJ, thanx for your continued commentary on these message boards as you really have a way of communicating tennis in a language that really hits home.
 

0d1n

Hall of Fame
11 mid sounds like fun, esp if it is 16X19. Then again I did say that when the 11s first came out.

J
You don't need the 11 mid in 16x19 pattern. The DNX 10 Mid is already here...and it's loads of fun. Have a hit and report back ;).
 

sargeinaz

Hall of Fame
they're not phasing out the Volkl name. that has been very clearly established around here multiple times and by more than one person who knows.

both lines will co-exist and the consumer will end up deciding how much emphasis is placed on each brand in each part of the world. believe it or not, there is a whole world which exists outside of the US

there will be the type of differentiation you mention...like Toyota/Lexus

Good Im glad theyre not as I like both companies and would like to see both do well. I believe they both make very high quality products.
________
Colorado medical marijuana dispensaries
 
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NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Good Im glad theyre not as I like both companies and would like to see both do well. I believe they both make very high quality products.

for clarification, they are both the same company. just different brands

You don't need the 11 mid in 16x19 pattern. The DNX 10 Mid is already here...and it's loads of fun. Have a hit and report back ;).

i agree with that. i think either the Becker11 Mid is going to be significantly lighter than the dnx10Mid or have 18 mains. something to significantly differentiate itself from the dnx10Mid <which has veen very popular for Volkl by Volkl standards>. i would guess they are of the lighter slughtly firmer ilk

"Having been weaned on wood and playing a power/feel sort of game." Seems we have similar backgrounds and styles. We've also opted for similar frames in the C8 and T10(I)MP. I however, am still injured and on hard courts tearing up my joints.
In regard to the DNX frames, "It wasnt like the feel was bad...it was just diffferent and was less homogenous than a c series frame." My sentiments, precisely. No one could have explained this phenomenon better.

I recently acquired about half a dozen C8s in 8-10 condition and was planning to customize them to my specs, that is, until I started reading your posts on the BB11. Guess I will temporarily abandon my C8 project to play-test Becker's new orange monster. Being old-school and having lost a step (or two), I like the idea of essentially getting a "players frame type of feel with tweener type performance..." NBMJ, thanx for your continued commentary on these message boards as you really have a way of communicating tennis in a language that really hits home.

Thanks for the good words. I do think the sign of a good playtester is to be able to concisely put into words how a racquet performs taking as many personal elements out of the equation. statements like too light, too stiff, etc really are quite meaningless and you can get more accurate info about things like this just by looking at the specs assuming the specs are in the targeted range

A couple of thoughts. You might as well hold out to see what the BeckerPro is like. I've been campaigning for a Gen2 with the juice for a long time, and am hoping this may be it. Another option is to do what I have done. Weight up a Becker11Light. I think they start out at a swingweight similar to your C8's...they're a little more headlight. I've got mine swinging at a hair under 315 and they perform really well for me. It's a firmer feel however <but still Volkl damped>
 
Thing I like about the dnx10(just switched to them) Is that they have some weight in the head. I used to have an ncode nsix one, and one of the things I enjoyed is that weight in the hoop. It provides great serving potential and It just feels more solid.
 

0d1n

Hall of Fame
....
i agree with that. i think either the Becker11 Mid is going to be significantly lighter than the dnx10Mid or have 18 mains. something to significantly differentiate itself from the dnx10Mid <which has veen very popular for Volkl by Volkl standards>. i would guess they are of the lighter slughtly firmer ilk
....

I don't think the heft of the Mid would be a problem for our Jolly here :) ... from what he says he's leading up K90's to some pretty big numbers anyway ... so the 10 Mid would certainly not be too heavy. I'm just curious on how somebody used to the Tour 90 series reacts to the mid...Jolly in particular...he has pretty clear and strong opinions about "stuff in general".
 
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TennisandMusic

Guest
It looks like the Becker pro is a 16x18 and could be around a 95. Does this look/sound accurate? Nice looking stick.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Local pro shop guy asked me today if I wanted to buy some DNX8s very cheap. It seemed too light for me so I said no. He said he is getting rid of all his Volkls and BBs as they don't sell.
 

bad_call

Legend
Local pro shop guy asked me today if I wanted to buy some DNX8s very cheap. It seemed too light for me so I said no. He said he is getting rid of all his Volkls and BBs as they don't sell.

what did he have in the volkl line and what price? btw - could be interested in the dnx 10 mid at the right price. :)
 

WChiang

Rookie
Local pro shop guy asked me today if I wanted to buy some DNX8s very cheap. It seemed too light for me so I said no. He said he is getting rid of all his Volkls and BBs as they don't sell.

Unfortunately the same is true in my area. The three pro shops that used to sell Volkl have dropped the line due to lack of sales (according to the owners - as I was looking to try a DNX 10 mid but TW didn't have my grip size as a demo); so no Volkl or BB gear anywhere in this region. Too bad - I think Volkl/Becker have butchered the marketing of a once growing brand.:confused:
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
WChiang said:
Unfortunately the same is true in my area. The three pro shops that used to sell Volkl have dropped the line due to lack of sales (according to the owners - as I was looking to try a DNX 10 mid but TW didn't have my grip size as a demo); so no Volkl or BB gear anywhere in this region.

Yeah, I agree. Volkl made great inroads into the older male player category, and around here even that's dropped off. I think the height of popularity around here was when they produced the Cat 3 which was immensely popular with women. I thought the thing was way stiff, but women in particular loved them. That and the Cat 10 which was very popular with 3.0 - 4.0 men in particular.

Now, the only frame that's been moving is the V1 in whatever incarnation it happens to be in at the time. Players around here that used to use Volkl by and large have gone to the Prince O-line.

There is one local pro shop around here and he has reduced his line to basically the V1. He has some Power Arms, and I think he's just about ready to put them in the Sale bin. Back when the C10 was the mainstay, he carried the entire C-line and sold it very well. That continued as I noted until Volkl discontinued the Cat line. The Cat 1, 2, and 3 were big sellers around here.

The demise of Volkl here was the "V" series of frames which reminded me of Wilson's roller effort. I liked the V-10 and V-8 very much and thought they were great products, but they just didn't sell.

WChiang said:
Too bad - I think Volkl/Becker have butchered the marketing of a once growing brand.:confused:

You hit the proverbial nail my friend.

All the indicators are pointing to Volkl being a thing of the past UNLESS the Becker line just doesn't sell and they are forced back to the Volkl line. All of the pros, including Stepanek, were carrying Serveman bags, and now all the pros, including Stepanek, have been given their walking papers. Volkl has no representation in the pros and has taken a course very much like ProKennex. And, we see how well that has served ProKennex.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
I've corrected your post for you

It is possible. He is very high in the Wilson dealership metrics and that is his first focus.

He also can get Yonexes and has a few demos. But he says "Yonex has a very high demo to sales ratio" - apparently people demo it, like it, but then go buy a Wilson or Bab.

I don't know what happened in the Volkl case, but he says he knows Sean Frost. All he said was Volkl was just not getting the info out to the people and competing effectively with Wilson or Bab. He used to carry many models of Volkl and BB. Now he is getting rid of them and seems to have only DNX8s and BB5s or something (not because he sold the rest but according to him he asks the Volkl rep to take them back).
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
It is possible. He is very high in the Wilson dealership metrics and that is his first focus.

He also can get Yonexes and has a few demos. But he says "Yonex has a very high demo to sales ratio" - apparently people demo it, like it, but then go buy a Wilson or Bab.

I don't know what happened in the Volkl case, but he says he knows Sean Frost. All he said was Volkl was just not getting the info out to the people and competing effectively with Wilson or Bab. He used to carry many models of Volkl and BB. Now he is getting rid of them and seems to have only DNX8s and BB5s or something (not because he sold the rest but according to him he asks the Volkl rep to take them back).

yea well it has been well documented here over and over and over again that some majour changes were made at Volkl....when majour changes are made, things run less than optimally for a while every time. sorry for your friend that he lives in an imperfect world.

what we have here are people making bad assumptions about things because of one store in their particular little area and one sided information..i think that's pretty myopic
 
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louis netman

Hall of Fame
Unfortunately the same is true in my area. The three pro shops that used to sell Volkl have dropped the line due to lack of sales (according to the owners - as I was looking to try a DNX 10 mid but TW didn't have my grip size as a demo); so no Volkl or BB gear anywhere in this region. Too bad - I think Volkl/Becker have butchered the marketing of a once growing brand.:confused:

IMO, Volkl was a niche brand and achieved its success by appealing to a particular segment of players. I call them player's players (PP). They decided to get greedy and go mass market competing head-on with the Big Boys (BB) without the mass market endorsement dollars that are required to become a Big Boy. No dice here, it was discovered.

Indeed, Boris Becker is also a big boy (large male), and also appeals to this niche of PPs who are familiar with his achievements, however without the big BB endorsement $$ to top players CURRENTLY on tour, the new brand will also take a dump within the mass scheme of things. IMO, this is not the plan, however. I think that the people at Volkl are very intelligent and savvy not only in terms of engineering, but also in terms of marketing as well. IMO, the Boris Becker line is a spin-off strategy to once again proclaim their very own market of PPs. Image is the name of the game in branding and the single Volkl brand can not sustain both recreational/mass-market AND PP images within the consumers perceptions.

My only reservation is that a single player like Becker endorsing the line may only have minimal positive effects on the line as there exists a multitude of playing styles outside of Becker's own. Therefore, the offerings may be perceived to benefit only players with Becker's playing style. The PP market may not perceive things this way, however. In addition, the brand image also presents as "males-only." This may be a positive attribute for a niche brand like Boris Becker. In the mass market scheme of things, however, typical big-time endorsements deals attempt to garner players encompassing a multitude of styles, men and women alike.

For the main Volkl brand (who by the way, makes most of its $$ on great skiing equipment) to expand in their decision to become a mass-market, "recreational" brand, they will have to spend the required $$ to get top players to sport their logo on the personal observation monitor (POM-Television/PC Monitor)). No two ways about it. However, they may be able survive solely due to the phenomenal profitability of the recreational market.

Regardless, and when all is said and done, I will be demoing the BB11 as soon as I get over this nasty case of tonsilitis.

The aforementioned is strictly an opinion and the writer has no factual information regarding the business/marketing strategies of the Volkl or Boris Becker brands.

The terms Big Boy(S) (BB), Player's Players (PP), and Personal Observation Monitor (POM) are copyright 2007 MLM
 

AndrewD

Legend
Local pro shop guy asked me today if I wanted to buy some DNX8s very cheap. It seemed too light for me so I said no. He said he is getting rid of all his Volkls and BBs as they don't sell.

Mate, that's not an indictment of the racquet, it's an indictement of the store owner. If you can't sell Volkl racquets (or the upper quality BB) then you sure as hell aren't much of a salesman. Sure, it takes a little bit of effort to break through the fragile egos and infantile/idiot mindset which thinks that a racquet has to be used by the pros to be a good racquet but a decent salesperson should do it with no effort.
 

Kevin T

Hall of Fame
Mate, that's not an indictment of the racquet, it's an indictement of the store owner. If you can't sell Volkl racquets (or the upper quality BB) then you sure as hell aren't much of a salesman. Sure, it takes a little bit of effort to break through the fragile egos and infantile/idiot mindset which thinks that a racquet has to be used by the pros to be a good racquet but a decent salesperson should do it with no effort.

Well, then 99% of tennis shop owners are bad salespeople. I'm in San Diego and you're lucky to find a shop carrying Volkl and if they do, the frames aren't big sellers. They were pretty much phasing Volkl out in the big shops in Charleston, SC (another big tennis area) before I moved 2 1/2 years ago, as well. And I have no issue with Volkl products. I think they're one of the top 3 companies in terms of quality but their management/marketing needs work, IMHO.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
To be fair, I told the shop owner what I think of Wilson's QC. He disagreed. He says Wilson has one kind of QC for "ordinary" racquets, and another for "performance" racquets. Who knows.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Mate, that's not an indictment of the racquet, it's an indictement of the store owner. If you can't sell Volkl racquets (or the upper quality BB) then you sure as hell aren't much of a salesman. Sure, it takes a little bit of effort to break through the fragile egos and infantile/idiot mindset which thinks that a racquet has to be used by the pros to be a good racquet but a decent salesperson should do it with no effort.

If you count the references in the last few posts, that would be 5 stores, and described by 3 unrelated posters. So you better indict all 5 of them.
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
A good salesperson may hand the typical consumer a handful of frames, Prince, Volkl and Wilson and even explain the engineering prowess, comfort benefits, etc of Volkl....

However, during the demo process unconscious influences are at work....Deep within the mind....the fact that Federer has a big W stamped on his frame, Sharapova has a big P....etc. This is powerful stuff!

In addition, typical, modern-day humans like to be herded like sheep into whatever pasture yields the most popularity...
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
A good salesperson may hand the typical consumer a handful of frames, Prince, Volkl and Wilson and even explain the engineering prowess, comfort benefits, etc of Volkl....

However, during the demo process unconscious influences are at work....Deep within the mind....the fact that Federer has a big W stamped on his frame, Sharapova has a big P....etc. This is powerful stuff!

In addition, typical, modern-day humans like to be herded like sheep into whatever pasture yields the most popularity...

I think that's baloney. Maybe completely recreational players will buy solely on brand name (are these players buying 150-200 dollar racquets however?), but the market that Volkl appeals too should not be swayed nearly as much by who is playing what. I don't give a rat's rear end who plays the racquet that I like.

In fact I like things about almost every brand. I can play with Head, Babolat, Wilson whatever. Every Volkl I have tried, which includes the Becker line, C10, DNX 10's and 9's etc, were just not good racquets compared to the competition in my opinion. I find it interesting a few of you are towing the "highly engineered" line. Sounds like a marketing phrase to me, are you guys sponsored and trying to defend your brand?

Marketing is important, but if the racquets were out of this world they would be selling in my opinion. Just maybe, there are more factors than simply "bad salesmen," which I think is just a load of rubbish.

Oh yeah...would it help if I revealed that I use the Becker 10 pack because I think it's a great bag? See, I go to where the quality is...and I'm even still interested in the Becker Pro!
 
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