Those thinking Djokovic is going to dominate for 4-5 years more are mistaken.

[MichaelNadal]

Tennis will be saved like always

 

[DIMI_D]

The AO ban length will have a big impact for sure - I hope it is lifted soon. For a long time, I used to feel that if Djokovic played his best, no one could beat him at the AO/Wimbledon, only Nadal could beat him at the FO and he would at least make the USO final. Now, I feel that he can play his best and still lose to several players at the top if he has already had to play 3-4 tough matches in a row.

As is typical for older players, he is unable to keep his intensity high throughout a match especially is he is playing more on the offensive side of what he is capable of. So, he loses sets in too many Slams matches, reverts to purely counterpunching mode for long periods etc. and I feel that there are enough players who will make him pay in the future as people are not afraid of him anymore. They respect him but don’t fear him in my opinion as they know that he can be overpowered.

Yes that’s very accurate analysis. I still don’t truly trust a lot of these up and comers as they loose to people they should beat thus these draws going forward will be crucial to the slam race. Yes for sure the Oz open ban if it’s not lifted this year he won’t be able to play till 2025 and he prob doesn’t bother coming playing at all. You would think they lift covid requirements in the US by next year..
we can see now the likes of Alcaraz (slam champ) Rune ( will win slams) probably sinner will join them as well FAA is showing a lot of promise now too. They are still developing and will have ups and downs. I think Med sticks around as a contender and wins a few more as well. The likes of Tsitsi and Zverev I’m less bullish on them crossing the line they are chokers they are more just that hard match for someone that just scraps by but looses because they were pushed in that match to the brink. J Draper might even pop up into the mix of youngsters that are challenging as well next year

 

[DIMI_D]

Tennis will be saved like always

Exciting times ahead the new Fedal rivalry rune vs Alcaraz tennis is in safe hands..

 

[Shaolin]

Who thinks he will dominate 4-5 more years?

3+ more slams is certainly possible though.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Djoker is more likely to win 0 slams than to win 3.

Mmm, given he's been unbeaten for a while at Wimbledon and the AO it's debatable (Also the fact he's been reaching finals regularly at the USO since 2015 and has been losing to Nadal or winning RG in the past few seasons).

I think he has 2 in him left, not 3, but I would say more chances of 3 than 0.

 

[Blahovic]

I think mentally Djokovic will probably lose his edge if he breaks the slam record and the competition with Nadal stops.

I don't think anyone really expects Djokovic to dominate per se, but him winning 1-2 slams a year for the next 3 years and consistently being a top 4 player wouldn't be a massive shock. I wouldn't be stunned if he won one slam and was top 6 in the world in 2025, although it might not happen of course.

 

[Topspin_80]

Djokovic is not #1 anymore, and I doubt he'll reach that position ever again.

Therefore, the cake-walk draws he used to get as #1, he's not getting them anymore.

If he's allowed to play OZ 23, he'll go as #7 or 8.

That means a tough QF.

Also a difficult last 16.

Not to mention any floater along the way.

His physical decline is crystal clear, it's been clear for years, that's why he added the drop-shot as a go to weapon.

Nevertheless Djokovic is smart, and he'll adjust his game just like Nadal been doing.

The Djokovic we used to know, is history. No more dominance, from now on the way of the sorrows for him.

 

[Julius Caesar]

I read here the other day that he has 8 or 10 slams still in him... That post was hilarious

 

[Topspin_80]

I read here the other day that he has 8 or 10 slams still in him... That post was hilarious

I will add delirious.

When overjoyed zealots become thrilled by minors wins like Tel Aviv, or Astana, they put their minds in overdrive
and the result of their daydreaming are slams, many slams, 8 or 10, or to the bare minimum, more slams than Nadal.

 

[StrongRule]

But that’s the exact point, it’s already so close. Sinner wasn’t ready, he’s only 20 and it was his first Wimbledon QF against a 7 time champ. However this Djokovic will only decline and with experience, Sinner and other young guns will learn and grow. The margins are already this close - so if Djokovic declines even 5% from his current level as he ages, he’s going to lose a lot more, and will no longer be the favorite to win Slams.

And when exactly will he be ready? I heard that already so many times about the next gen, yet I don't see any improvement from them in BO5. Tsitsipas won 2 sets in DO 2020, 2 sets in DO 2021, and what? He got totally destroyed in all 6 sets he lost in these matches, and didn't improve since then. He keeps losing again and again to Djokovic, their matchup is already being compared to Djokovic-Nishikori by some.

Nadal at age 19 beat prime Federer in RG 2005. Now compare that to the current next gen being outplayed by a 35 years old Djokovic in BO5, where they actually should have the physical advantage.

 

[TennisManiac]

Novak will not be dominating anything anymore. It's over now.

 

[Rosstour]

You said the same thing about Nadal and about Novak 2-3 years before,
And yet Nadal and Novak have won slams in their 30s and are still the best 2 players on tour.

Fact is - Next Gen just isn't good. Trust me if Fed had no Novak/Nadal and had these jokers, he would have won 5-8 more slams.

5-8?

He'd have 5-8 RGs alone, lol

1AO at least

3 Wim at least

1US at least

That's ten, just going on Finals defeats to Nadal and Djok

 

[NeutralFan]

Come on, Sinner won the first 2 sets and grass is not his best surface historically, he is much better suited to hc.

Sinner's biggest problem is all mental. Against Alcaraz he would have felt much more confident than against Djokovic.

I think his biggest problem is his movement and speed.

 

[NeutralFan]

On clay I feel it’s possible. The tour like you say is bad and clay and grass. Nadal himself will feel it’s possible. We will see.

Not really, Clay field is not even half as weak as grass field lol

 

[mahatma]

Djokovic may not dominate for 4-5 years. No one has said that. At best will win 3-4 slams in 5 years. That’s not domination.

Alcaraz, FAA,Rune, Medvedev can also have similar numbers. Don’t see any domination for next 5 years.

 

[Cortana]

He won half of the slams he was allowed to play this year. He was in every slam final of 2021 and won 3 of them.

So what are you guys talking about?

 

[irishnadalfan1983]

He won half of the slams he was allowed to play this year. He was in every slam final of 2021 and won 3 of them.

So what are you guys talking about?

All valid points....I think the feeling is age has to catch up with him at some stage....Like it does for everyone....It is not a slight on him - more just looking at his birth certificate....Rafa has had an incredible year - however I am presuming time will catch him very soon....

 

[The Fedfather]

He won half of the slams he was allowed to play this year. He was in every slam final of 2021 and won 3 of them.

So what are you guys talking about?

We're talking about the future. Past achievements are not the best predictor of the future when the landscape is changing so rapidly.

 

[mike danny]

We hear that for years, and the young players just keep being bad in BO5. Alcaraz barely beat Sinner in USO this year, it's highly unlikely that he can beat Djokovic in AO.

StrongRule being the voice of reason.

 

[Rina]

I am confused as to how a 35-year-old will dominate well into his mid-30s?

 

[mike danny]

It’s easy to assume things in tennis but assuming that a 35 year old will dominate will into mid 30s is just too much of assuming. I think field is catching up quickly on Djokovic and Nadal. I don’t see Nadal being a contender beyond next year at slams and Djokovic max till 2024 after that all the Alcarazs, Runes, Sinners will be too good for way past prime all time greats. On hardcourt Djokovic will not be able to dominate like it’s expected as one can see even last 1 year he has won matches on hardcourt against good players by tiny margins and as he ages and experience on side of these kids it will be a mountain too big even for a Djokovic and don’t forget likes of Zverev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas. So field is finally looking immensely strong atleast it will be I feel next year.

If it's looking immensely strong because Djokodal are getting worse, then it's not immensely strong.

 

[mike danny]

You are 100% correct. In terms of athleticism and shotmaking skills, the field has caught up. And now Alcaraz and Rune have shown that not only do they have a complete game but they are mentally ready to step up. There is blood in the water and I don't expect Nadal nor Djokovic to stay in the drivers seat for much longer (it's even possible that it's already over).

If they still win 3 of the 4 slams next year, then nothing will have changed.

 

[mike danny]

But that’s the exact point, it’s already so close. Sinner wasn’t ready, he’s only 20 and it was his first Wimbledon QF against a 7 time champ.

I know someone else who played his first Wimb QF against a 7 time champ and won

 

[clayqueen]

At the end of the day he's currently the favourite at AO, W and USO (especially the first two). And the 2nd favorite at RG.

Wishful thinking.

 

[mike danny]

Wishful thinking.

It's an absolute fact minus the USO part.

 

[Nadal_King]

If it's looking immensely strong because Djokodal are getting worse, then it's not immensely strong.

Nope it is getting strong without taking into effect,Djokovic is still quite good but yes djokodal downfall is going to take a toll on this that is why I mentioned after 1-2 years

 

[thrust]

It’s easy to assume things in tennis but assuming that a 35 year old will dominate will into mid 30s is just too much of assuming. I think field is catching up quickly on Djokovic and Nadal. I don’t see Nadal being a contender beyond next year at slams and Djokovic max till 2024 after that all the Alcarazs, Runes, Sinners will be too good for way past prime all time greats. On hardcourt Djokovic will not be able to dominate like it’s expected as one can see even last 1 year he has won matches on hardcourt against good players by tiny margins and as he ages and experience on side of these kids it will be a mountain too big even for a Djokovic and don’t forget likes of Zverev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas. So field is finally looking immensely strong atleast it will be I feel next year.

Being a fan of Djokovic, I agree that neither Novak nor Rafa will dominate as they have done before. Age eventually catches up with everyone.

 

[jl809]

Let’s put this another way:

1. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the AO (if he plays) is Medvedev, a guy who could easily be knocked out by any of Kyrgios, Nadal, Tsitsipas, FAA and even Rune/Alcaraz
2. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the FO is Nadal, whom he was 1 point away from taking to 5 sets this year and whose body is constantly 1 minute away from breaking (and who may be winding down his career soon for all we know)
3. Djokovic’s only rival at Wimbledon is Nadal, who hasn’t made a Wimbledon final in 11 years nor beaten Djokovic off clay in 9 years
4. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the US Open (if he plays) is apparently himself and his own mental weakness, or Medvedev, for whom the same circumstances apply as at the AO

He may not dominate for 4 years, but it is not inconceivable at all that in all of the next 4 years, he will pick up at least 1 slam, unless the situation above changes dramatically

 

[mike danny]

Let’s put this another way:

1. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the AO (if he plays) is Medvedev, a guy who could easily be knocked out by any of Kyrgios, Nadal, Tsitsipas, FAA and even Rune/Alcaraz
2. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the FO is Nadal, whom he was 1 point away from taking to 5 sets this year and whose body is constantly 1 minute away from breaking (and who may be winding down his career soon for all we know)
3. Djokovic’s only rival at Wimbledon is Nadal, who hasn’t made a Wimbledon final in 11 years nor beaten Djokovic off clay in 9 years
4. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the US Open (if he plays) is apparently himself and his own mental weakness, or Medvedev, for whom the same circumstances apply as at the AO

He may not dominate for 4 years, but it is not inconceivable at all that in all of the next 4 years, he will pick up at least 1 slam, unless the situation above changes dramatically

And his biggest rival at the AO can be beaten easily by Djokovic himself.

 

[DIMI_D]

Let’s put this another way:

1. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the AO (if he plays) is Medvedev, a guy who could easily be knocked out by any of Kyrgios, Nadal, Tsitsipas, FAA and even Rune/Alcaraz
2. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the FO is Nadal, whom he was 1 point away from taking to 5 sets this year and whose body is constantly 1 minute away from breaking (and who may be winding down his career soon for all we know)
3. Djokovic’s only rival at Wimbledon is Nadal, who hasn’t made a Wimbledon final in 11 years nor beaten Djokovic off clay in 9 years
4. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the US Open (if he plays) is apparently himself and his own mental weakness, or Medvedev, for whom the same circumstances apply as at the AO

He may not dominate for 4 years, but it is not inconceivable at all that in all of the next 4 years, he will pick up at least 1 slam, unless the situation above changes dramatically

You forget to mention Alcaraz which is excellent on clay maybe his best surface so RG it’s nadal and Alcaraz and Djoker as favs let’s see what rune can do he is improving also tsitsi and Zverev can be dangerous.

AO Djoker is firm favourite if he plays but it’s draw dependent in some ways but I expect him to win it if he plays regardless of opposition all these up and comers aren’t quite ready to dominate.. next year will be a different story I assume but it has to be proven first. The biggest factor now is about the ban that will really tell us a lot about the future of the slam race. Alcaraz breaking through is really telling now for the other young guns if Djoker doesn’t play and one of the others wins the confidence of this group will just sky rocket..
Then the complexion for Wimby will change as well.. But right now I wouldn’t be surprised if Djoker gets another min 2-5 slams and that hinges on him playing AO if he has that ban enforced I think Wimby is absolutely crucial for him as a slam-less next year will mean possibly 0-1 before he is done.
so for me just playing the AO will be huge in terms of match play, confidence and the development of this chasing pack Alcaraz, rune, FAA, sinner. Med will be winning slams or in the mix as well

 

[jl809]

You forget to mention Alcaraz which is excellent on clay maybe his best surface so RG it’s nadal and Alcaraz and Djoker as favs let’s see what rune can do he is improving also tsitsi and Zverev can be dangerous.

AO Djoker is firm favourite if he plays but it’s draw dependent in some ways but I expect him to win it if he plays regardless of opposition all these up and comers aren’t quite ready to dominate.. next year will be a different story I assume but it has to be proven first. The biggest factor now is about the ban that will really tell us a lot about the future of the slam race. Alcaraz breaking through is really telling now for the other young guns if Djoker doesn’t play and one of the others wins the confidence of this group will just sky rocket..
Then the complexion for Wimby will change as well.. But right now I wouldn’t be surprised if Djoker gets another min 2-5 slams and that hinges on him playing AO if he has that ban enforced I think Wimby is absolutely crucial for him as a slam-less next year will mean possibly 0-1 before he is done.
so for me just playing the AO will be huge in terms of match play, confidence and the development of this chasing pack Alcaraz, rune, FAA, sinner. Med will be winning slams or in the mix as well

Alcaraz is not a legit rival for Djoker at RG yet. 1 extremely tight win in Madrid when Djoker was still coming back into gear (having looked super knackered vs Rublev) doesn’t suggest to me he can take 3 sets in slower conditions against a fully up-to-speed Djokovic. I agree that Wimbledon is critical for Djoker moving forward and I think he can win 1-2 more for sure

 

[mahatma]

With even a bad season I feel Djokovic can have 1 slam/ year sort of run rate for next 3-4 years.

 

[Kralingen]

Let’s put this another way:

1. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the AO (if he plays) is Medvedev, a guy who could easily be knocked out by any of Kyrgios, Nadal, Tsitsipas, FAA and even Rune/Alcaraz
2. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the FO is Nadal, whom he was 1 point away from taking to 5 sets this year and whose body is constantly 1 minute away from breaking (and who may be winding down his career soon for all we know)
3. Djokovic’s only rival at Wimbledon is Nadal, who hasn’t made a Wimbledon final in 11 years nor beaten Djokovic off clay in 9 years
4. Djokovic’s biggest rival at the US Open (if he plays) is apparently himself and his own mental weakness, or Medvedev, for whom the same circumstances apply as at the AO

He may not dominate for 4 years, but it is not inconceivable at all that in all of the next 4 years, he will pick up at least 1 slam, unless the situation above changes dramatically

How about the Djokovic situation? Why is it that everyone expects him to stay level and not decline whatsoever? He is a shell of himself compared to his 2018-19 level and that was 4 years ago. How will he still be running around like Keanu in the Matrix at age 38/39?

 

[MichaelNadal]

How about the Djokovic situation? Why is it that everyone expects him to stay level and not decline whatsoever? He is a shell of himself compared to his 2018-19 level and that was 4 years ago. How will he still be running around like Keanu in the Matrix at age 38/39?

I can’t wait for Ultronian humble pie.

 

[mahatma]

How about the Djokovic situation? Why is it that everyone expects him to stay level and not decline whatsoever? He is a shell of himself compared to his 2018-19 level and that was 4 years ago. How will he still be running around like Keanu in the Matrix at age 38/39?

If he is able to maintain top 4 rankings, he mostly has 2 tough matches in a slam separated by a day. Quite doable at 38-39, given his decline has been the least at his age.

 

[jl809]

How about the Djokovic situation? Why is it that everyone expects him to stay level and not decline whatsoever? He is a shell of himself compared to his 2018-19 level and that was 4 years ago. How will he still be running around like Keanu in the Matrix at age 38/39?

He’ll be even slower, sure, and his BH will probably decline a bit, but I don’t expect his serve and ROS to decline much (if anything they’re better now than in 2019, so may just return to those levels) and it’s remarkable how far that can get him against this current field..

Plus at some point a coach is going to tell him to stop waiting around for errors in rallies like a mug and actually hit through the ball again, and if he works on his variety like Nadal, he can keep longer points more interesting

 

[NeutralFan]

I can’t wait for Ultronian humble pie.

So long as his speed doesn't decline massively like Nadal's has he will be very hard to beat. His game revolves around movement and impeccable defense. I am surprised his speed hasn't declined by much and he still plays same keyboard defensive game like he used to in his prime.

 

[NeutralFan]

He’ll be even slower, sure, and his BH will probably decline a bit, but I don’t expect his serve and ROS to decline much (if anything they’re better now than in 2019, so may just return to those levels) and it’s remarkable how far that can get him against this current field..

Plus at some point a coach is going to tell him to stop waiting around for errors in rallies like a mug and actually hit through the ball again, and if he works on his variety like Nadal, he can keep longer points more interesting

I agree with everything but a lot will depend on draws. If he draws Z, Alcaraz and Med back to back then it will be difficult for him even at AO , Wimbledon will be easy for him, RG won't be and neither will USO where there are many players who can beat him.

 

[weakera]

Djokovic’s biggest rival at the FO is Nadal, whom he was 1 point away from taking to 5 sets this year

Are you trying to suggest it was some super competitive match? And what if next time they play in Sunny conditions for the first time at the French since 2014? Did you see Nadal's game in the Final against Ruud vs. his game vs. Djokovic? He would have given Djokovic an even worse scoreline than 2020 in those conditions.

 

[jl809]

Are you trying to suggest it was some super competitive match? And what if next time they play in Sunny conditions for the first time at the French since 2014? Did you see Nadal's game in the Final against Ruud vs. his game vs. Djokovic? He would have given Djokovic an even worse scoreline than 2020 in those conditions.

I agree, but my point is not that Nadal isn’t far better than Djokovic, it’s that if Djoker gets a match at night pre-final, he could make things close enough that Nadal not being 100% might swing things. Another freak combination of circumstances like 2021 is possible, not likely, but possible

 

[weakera]

I agree, but my point is not that Nadal isn’t far better than Djokovic, it’s that if Djoker gets a match at night pre-final, he could make things close enough that Nadal not being 100% might swing things. Another freak combination of circumstances like 2021 is possible, not likely, but possible

Fair enough, I agree. Djokovic's chances at the French have always depended on Nadal's form slipping, he could never beat a fit Nadal at Roland Garros, and given Nadal's precarious state, he may get the chance to vulture again.

 

[DIMI_D]

Alcaraz is not a legit rival for Djoker at RG yet. 1 extremely tight win in Madrid when Djoker was still coming back into gear (having looked super knackered vs Rublev) doesn’t suggest to me he can take 3 sets in slower conditions against a fully up-to-speed Djokovic. I agree that Wimbledon is critical for Djoker moving forward and I think he can win 1-2 more for sure

I have to see it first as well but he def is a threat to Djoker there he is an excellent clay court player. Do I believe he would be favourite in the match prob not but it’s pretty even and I wouldn’t think Djoker is a shoe in to win that match up. A lot will depend on next year the lead up tournaments and form.

 

[mahatma]

Are you trying to suggest it was some super competitive match? And what if next time they play in Sunny conditions for the first time at the French since 2014? Did you see Nadal's game in the Final against Ruud vs. his game vs. Djokovic? He would have given Djokovic an even worse scoreline than 2020 in those conditions.

Rafa has been ordinary or worse since 3-0 second set

Lol same user was frightened to the core in the actual match thread. But it wasn't competitive, right

 

[DIMI_D]

I think Rafa prob ends on 23 but I never thought he would get to 15 after that slump 15-16 then again after 2021 I thought that’s it.. he rises from the dead like the undertaker! Epic AF

 

[Kralingen]

I can’t wait for Ultronian humble pie.

I’d just settle for a “he will still be a contender and can win a Slam every year but it’ll be much tougher” but we’re still repeating this “favorite at EVERY slam” stuff like it’s 2015. Like holy moly, the guy is human, just lower your expectations a little, not even a lot that’s all I’m asking.

He’ll be even slower, sure, and his BH will probably decline a bit, but I don’t expect his serve and ROS to decline much (if anything they’re better now than in 2019, so may just return to those levels) and it’s remarkable how far that can get him against this current field..

Plus at some point a coach is going to tell him to stop waiting around for errors in rallies like a mug and actually hit through the ball again, and if he works on his variety like Nadal, he can keep longer points more interesting

I think his ROS is still a bit more vulnerable than 19 tbh. And his serve dependent game really crumbles when he doesn’t get 2 unreturned serves per game — if you make him hit shots and rally he will break down and choke. The guy has to be like 50% in serve out sets in crucial slam matches these past two years… it’s crazy.

Sinner, Pas, Medvedev, Nadal have all taken his free points from him in the past year in Slams… and look what happened… look he is still the favorite in 2023 and I have bet him to win the AO. But to act like he will just never decline is a fool’s errand

 

[mike danny]

look he is still the favorite in 2023 and I have bet him to win the AO. But to act like he will just never decline is a fool’s errand

Exactly. People made fun of Agassi for losing to a 19 year old Nadal, but Djokovic has still lost twice to teenagers this year himself. Even if he's aged gracefully, he's still not immune to such losses.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I’d just settle for a “he will still be a contender and can win a Slam every year but it’ll be much tougher” but we’re still repeating this “favorite at EVERY slam” stuff like it’s 2015. Like holy moly, the guy is human, just lower your expectations a little, not even a lot that’s all I’m asking.

I think his ROS is still a bit more vulnerable than 19 tbh. And his serve dependent game really crumbles when he doesn’t get 2 unreturned serves per game — if you make him hit shots and rally he will break down and choke. The guy has to be like 50% in serve out sets in crucial slam matches these past two years… it’s crazy.

Sinner, Pas, Medvedev, Nadal have all taken his free points from him in the past year in Slams… and look what happened… look he is still the favorite in 2023 and I have bet him to win the AO. But to act like he will just never decline is a fool’s errand

It’s ridiculous lol the Imhotep stuff has gone to their heads. How about let’s play the matches and see???

 

[sportsfan1]

I’d just settle for a “he will still be a contender and can win a Slam every year but it’ll be much tougher” but we’re still repeating this “favorite at EVERY slam” stuff like it’s 2015. Like holy moly, the guy is human, just lower your expectations a little, not even a lot that’s all I’m asking.

I think his ROS is still a bit more vulnerable than 19 tbh. And his serve dependent game really crumbles when he doesn’t get 2 unreturned serves per game — if you make him hit shots and rally he will break down and choke. The guy has to be like 50% in serve out sets in crucial slam matches these past two years… it’s crazy.

Sinner, Pas, Medvedev, Nadal have all taken his free points from him in the past year in Slams… and look what happened… look he is still the favorite in 2023 and I have bet him to win the AO. But to act like he will just never decline is a fool’s errand

It's not never, rather how many slams he will get in the next 4-5 years. The next gen still has a lot to learn, and he's still the toughest out. You can't read too much into his bo3 losses or use those as a predictor for slams.
As it stands he's still very fit and at a very high level.

 

[MichaelNadal]

It's not never, rather how many slams he will get in the next 4-5 years. The next gen still has a lot to learn, and he's still the toughest out. You can't read too much into his bo3 losses or use those as a predictor for slams.
As it stands he's still very fit and at a very high level.

He needs to get bounced in straights asap lol

 

[mike danny]

He needs to get bounced in straights asap lol

It's ridiculous how players get a big lead on him and the moment he breaks in the next set you know it's all over. There was never any doubt Sinner was losing their Wimb match after he got broken in the 3rd.