What era was stronger 2004-2006 or 2014-2016?

[mike danny]

Oh c'monn, I am tired with this old story.So, was Federer supposed to win 3 slams per season for 5 years more ?Why you don't say the same thing about Djokovic cause he didn't have consecutive 3 slam seasons.Suddenly the competition got so much stronger in 2012 than in 2011 ? But yeah, it's simply to put a dent of Federer.No player shows the same form year after year after year and at some point, slam tally decreases independent on the competition.Guess what, 2008 was not stronger than 2007.
@NatF is right with your anti Fed agenda, but I already told you about that a few weeks ago and I like that other posters have noticed.

Heck, I noticed his anti-Fed agenda around 5 months ago. It wasn't really a secret.

 

[NatF]

Still butthurt? No he wasn't. YE #1 is given to the player who achieves more points in the calendar. It is mathematics, and so objective, not debatable. Nadal achieved more points than Federer in 2017 and so he was YE #1. If Federer wanted to be YE #1 in 2017, he should have played the clay season or reach 3 Slam finals as Nadal did. Federer only reached 2 Slam finals and played only in 2 surfaces. Nadal accumulated points on the 3 surfaces and reached 3 Slam finals, which gave him more points.

Having a difference in opinion isn't being butthurt man.

If you want to stand by the monolithic ATP points then that's fine, it's obviously a very valid and defensible position. I still think Federer was the best player that year and stand by that.

 

[Third Serve]

Never get into a discussion about the weak era with NatF.

 

[Lew II]

Federer's first 11 slam final opponents

Roddick x3
Nadal x2
Agassi, Hewitt, Safin, Philippoussis, Gonzalez, Baghdatis x1

Djokovic's last 11 slam final opponents:

Federer x3
Murray x3
Wawrinka x2
Nadal, Del Potro, Anderson x1

 

[Sport]

Oh c'monn, I am tired with this old story.So, was Federer supposed to win 3 slams per season for 5 years more ?Why you don't say the same thing about Djokovic cause he didn't have consecutive 3 slam seasons.Suddenly the competition got so much stronger in 2012 than in 2011 ? But yeah, it's simply to put a dent of Federer.No player shows the same form year after year after year and at some point, slam tally decreases independent on the competition.Guess what, 2008 was not stronger than 2007.
@NatF is right with your anti Fed agenda, but I already told you about that a few weeks ago and I like that other posters have noticed.

Novak Federer won 3 consecutive Slams aged 31 (WB 2018, USO 2018, AO 2019). No other player except Laver has done so. It is technically possible to win 3 consecutive Slams in your 30s.

 

[RS]

Federer's first 11 slam final opponents

Roddick x3
Nadal x2
Agassi, Hewitt, Safin, Philippoussis, Gonzalez, Baghdatis x1

Djokovic's last 11 slam final opponents:

Federer x3
Murray x3
Wawrinka x2
Nadal, Del Potro, Anderson x1

Did Djokovic ever benefit from weaker competition to you? Or is he just the perfect player with no flaws?

 

[ForehandRF]

Novak Federer won 3 consecutive Slams aged 31 (WB 2018, USO 2018, AO 2019). No other player except Laver has done so. It is technically possible to win 3 consecutive Slams in your 30s.

Things like this happen in recent years because the old guard still rules.Fed won in 2017 the first 2 slams that he played, was number one in 2018 at an absurd age, Rafa and Novak battle for the YE#1 and split slams this year etc.This might prove to be an outlier era when we'll look at it in the future or maybe not.

 

[RF-18]

Connors in 5

 

[Flash O'Groove]

OK but this has to be one of the things that has been talked about over and over on here. The pattern is Federer fans will say 2004-2006. Djokovic fans wil say 2014-2016 and post stats to explain why, and even I have fallen victim to this. It's a neverending merry-go-round. One thing is for sure, both are stronger than 2017-2019. Only 2019 has been what you can call a good year out of those three years.

Agree with everything, just curious on why you think 2019 is better than 2017-2018? You mean entertainment wise or competition wise?

 

[NoleFam]

Agree with everything, just curious on why you think 2019 is better than 2017-2018? You mean entertainment wise or competition wise?

For me, both. I think the top 6 players were pretty strong this year which wasn't the case in 2017 and 2018. Both Tsits and Thiem beat all members of the Big 3, Medvedev went on a tear making 4 big tournament finals in a row and then some other players stepped up at different times throughout the year.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

For me, both. I think the top 6 players were pretty strong this year which wasn't the case in 2017 and 2018. Both Tsits and Thiem beat all members of the Big 3, Medvedev went on a tear making 4 big tournament finals in a row and then some other players stepped up at different times throughout the year.

The problem is the top are the same players but further down the decline. Djoko is back in comparison to 2017 but well below the second part of 2018 I think. And older too.

 

[NoleFam]

The problem is the top are the same players but further down the decline. Djoko is back in comparison to 2017 but well below the second part of 2018 I think. And older too.

I don't think we can compare Djokovic's current form to 2017. He was pretty bad that year and carrying an injury. I don't think he was great this year, was very up and down, but good. Of course they are older and not the same players but I felt all three played well this year and did enough to maintain their firewall around the Slams. I did feel the younger ones made inroads this year though.

 

[KINGROGER]

Nadal was no ATG back then though. He had couple of slams.

And i wouldn't put oldgassi in the same sentence as old Fed. Enormous difference. Federer is in Another league at that age.

Not at slams he wasn’t. He played as well as Old Fed did vs Djokovic.

 

[KINGROGER]

LOL @ poll results.


2004-06 Federer Slam final opponents:

Roddick x3
Nadal x2
Agassi
Hewitt
Safin
Baghdatis


2014-16 Djokovic Slam final opponents:

Federer x3
Murray x3
Wawrinka x2
Nadal

Another clueless “name is everything” post

Fed’s 2015 Wimbledon / USO level barely makes it into his top 10 at either tournament.

 

[RS]

Another clueless “name is everything” post

Fed’s 2015 Wimbledon / USO level barely makes it into his top 10 at either tournament.

USO 15 is certainly in the top 10 for Federer USO forms. Easily considering post 2011 save for 15 he hasn’t performed well.

 

[KINGROGER]

USO 15 is certainly in the top 10 for Federer USO forms. Easily considering post 2011 save for 15 he hasn’t performed well.

I suppose yeah. Probably just edges out 2010 for 8th.

 

[RS]

I suppose yeah. Probably just edges out 2010 for 8th.

IMO it’s 6th but anywhere between 6th and 8th is fine IMO.

 

[NatF]

IMO it’s 6th but anywhere between 6th and 8th is fine IMO.

No way is it above 2009 or 2011 IMO.

 

[RF-18]

Not at slams he wasn’t. He played as well as Old Fed did vs Djokovic.

Are you telling me USO 05 Agassi was equal player to 15 USO Fed? LMAO!

''Old'' Fed is in a different stratosphere compared to ''old'' agassi who was hanging on for dear life every match he was playing especially in that 05 USO. This is not even close. Federer of 14-16 is better than old agassi in every aspect of the game. It's really a joke that I have to even argue for that. It's like saying Ferrer is equal to Nadal, that's how big of a joke it is.

 

[NatF]

Are you telling me USO 05 Agassi was equal player to 15 USO Fed? LMAO!

''Old'' Fed is in a different stratosphere compared to ''old'' agassi who was hanging on for dear life every match he was playing especially in that 05 USO. This is not even close. Federer of 14-16 is better than old agassi in every aspect of the game. It's really a joke that I have to even argue for that.

You could have said better, and I'd disagree but whatever but you said a different stratosphere which basically fanboy talk.

Also Agassi had a better forehand, backhand and return compared to Fed - flip side Fed better on serve, movement and touch/netplay.

 

[Lew II]

IMO it’s 6th but anywhere between 6th and 8th is fine IMO.

Djokovic said that UO 2015 is the best hardcourt version of Federer he ever faced.

Federer in Cincinnati said he waS playing his best tennis ever.

 

[Lew II]

Are you telling me USO 05 Agassi was equal player to 15 USO Fed? LMAO!

''Old'' Fed is in a different stratosphere compared to ''old'' agassi who was hanging on for dear life every match he was playing especially in that 05 USO. This is not even close. Federer of 14-16 is better than old agassi in every aspect of the game. It's really a joke that I have to even argue for that. It's like saying Ferrer is equal to Nadal, that's how big of a joke it is.

What a shame.

I just hope these people disappear as Federer's records vanish one by one.

 

[RS]

No way is it above 2009 or 2011 IMO.

Feds 2011 is a little overrated IMO high highs like sets 1/2 but inconsistent in parts like the 3rd/4th sets. 2009 had a tough draw with 4 dangerous which could have skewed the numbers before the final compared to 2016. 6th to 8th for me depending on how you look at it.

 

[RS]

Djokovic said that UO 2015 is the best hardcourt version of Federer he ever faced.

Federer in Cincinnati said he waS playing his best tennis ever.

In some matches he was. Not week in week out like he used to years ago. Less consistent.

 

[RF-18]

You could have said better, and I'd disagree but whatever but you said a different stratosphere which basically fanboy talk.

How was he not better? Seriously Federer trashed every opponent in his way in that 15 edition compared to Agassi who, wich should also be noted, was dealing with major back issues in that stage of his career and he played three five set matches before the final. He couldn't win a single match easy.

Not even once before the final could a player get past 4 games against Federer. And you tell me it's fanboyish talk when you can't even own up to that Federer was better?

 

[RS]

How was he not better? Seriously Federer trashed every opponent in his way in that 15 edition compared to Agassi who, wich should also be noted, was dealing with major back issues in that stage of his career and he played three five set matches before the final. He couldn't win a single match easy.

Not even once before the final could a player get past 4 games against Federer. And you tell me it's fanboyish talk when you can't even own up to that Federer was better?

Agassi did have a more difficult draw tbh. He faced 4 dangerous opponents in USO 2005 to Roger facing 2 in USO 2015.

 

[StrongRule]

Feds 2011 is a little overrated IMO high highs like sets 1/2 but inconsistent in parts like the 3rd/4th sets. 2009 had a tough draw with 4 dangerous which could have skewed the numbers before the final compared to 2016. 6th to 8th for me depending on how you look at it.

Federer still played clearly better in USO 2011 than in USO 2015, and against a much better Djokovic.

 

[RS]

Federer still played clearly better in USO 2011 than in USO 2015, and against a much better Djokovic.

Djokovic was better in USO11 but he wasn’t much better. It’s his best and 2nd best USO.
And Federer did drop a set to Cllic as well.

 

[NatF]

Feds 2011 is a little overrated IMO. 2009 had a tough draw with 4 dangerous which could have skewed the numbers. 6th to 8th for me depending on how you look at it.

Well 2011 Fed crushed Tsonga and his demolition of Monaco was quite good lol. He also gave a better fight to a better Djokovic, cut and dry for me.

How was he not better? Seriously Federer trashed every opponent in his way in that 15 edition compared to Agassi who, wich should also be noted, was dealing with major back issues in that stage of his career and he played three five set matches before the final.

Not even once before the final could a player get past 4 games against Federer. And you tell me it's fanboyish talk when you can't even own up to that Federer was better?

In the end both guys went down in four sets, so saying one is stratospheric-ally better than the other is fanboy talk yes.

Federer was better at crushing the easy opponents he faced before the final sure. It's like calling AO 2019 Nadal the best because he cruised through a weak draw where no one he played could expose his obvious limitations.

Fed probably beats some of Agassi's opponents easier but on the flip side I'm not sure Federer gets by Blake considering his weakness to big hitters in his latter career.

 

[Lew II]

Agassi did have a more difficult draw tbh. He faced 4 dangerous opponents in USO 2005 to Roger facing 2 in USO 2015.

Wait what?

Highest ranked player he met was #32.

 

[RS]

@NatF
He dropped a set in USO 11 though to a Cllic he was better before the match against Djokovic in 2015 against comparable competition.
He did hold MPs against a better Djokovic but he was also very inconsistent in the sets he lost like the 4th. And after the MPs he only won like 4 points.

 

[RF-18]

Agassi did have a more difficult draw tbh. He faced 4 dangerous opponents in USO 2005 to Roger facing 2 in USO 2015.

If Agassi was that good he wouldn't need to play so many 5 set matches. Opponents he played were nothing special. WC Blake, Ginepri in the semifinal took him 5 sets, Malisse 4th round took him 5 sets. Shouldn't really be so tough as it came it out.

 

[RS]

Wait what?

Highest ranked player he met was #32.

Because you only look at ranking......
Blake played a high level match it was a USO classic.

 

[RS]

If Agassi was that good he wouldn't need to play so many 5 set matches. Opponents he played were nothing special. WC Blake, Ginepri in the semifinal took him 5 sets, Malisse 4th round took him 5 sets. Shouldn't really be so tough as it came it out.

Federer was better in USO 15 than Agassi was in USO 2005 but it was not as one sided as you claimed.

 

[Lew II]

Because you only look at ranking......
Blake played a high level match it was a USO classic.

I don't trust eye test.

 

[RS]

I don't trust eye test.

That’s part of a problem in a tennis forum. We like to talk level of play which matters and it is interesting.

 

[ForehandRF]

Because you only look at ranking......
Blake played a high level match it was a USO classic.

One of the best USO matches for sure.

It's impressive that Agassi at his age still took a set in the final and was competitive in other 2 sets, all that after battling those 5 setters en route.The USO final was one the best ball striking matches in the Open Era imo.

 

[StrongRule]

@NoleFam For some reason my thread was deleted, but as you could see 31 people (against 1) voted that Dimitrov was better in AO 2017 than in USO 2019. Good to see that most users aren't such big trolls.

The claim that Dimitrov played great in USO 2019 is trolling by itself.

 

[StrongRule]

Of course it's lunacy to you because Nadal beat him in 2017 AO. I don't even need to say anymore than that. Lol. Dimitrov played great at the USO and had only lost one set before the match against Federer. Medvedev was the in form player this summer and almost beat Nadal so why is him being straight setted getting a laugh from you? I'm sure you were crying when it was 4-4 in the 5th set. All I have to do is go read the match thread to see that. Lol.

Why do I need to hype 2019? 2018 was a better year for my guy, and he was only good for half of it. 2019 was only a decent year for Djokovic and he was terrible at times this year. The first half of 2017 was better? Fedal won RG and WImbledon without dropping sets, in their 30's. Nadal I could concede because he was spectacular but Federer at nearly 36? Please.

Wait, WHAT? So you claim that Nadal had a great year, but Djokovic (who has 2 slams, 2 masters, YE#1 and probably WTF too) had just a DECENT year?

 

[KINGROGER]

Are you telling me USO 05 Agassi was equal player to 15 USO Fed? LMAO!

''Old'' Fed is in a different stratosphere compared to ''old'' agassi who was hanging on for dear life every match he was playing especially in that 05 USO. This is not even close. Federer of 14-16 is better than old agassi in every aspect of the game. It's really a joke that I have to even argue for that. It's like saying Ferrer is equal to Nadal, that's how big of a joke it is.

Old Agassi took peak Fed (arguably one of highest USO peaks ever) to 5 sets.

Old Fed surrendered in 4, meekly squandering countless BP chances and dumping easy 2nd returns and FHs into the net.

Did you watch those 2015 finals? Federer wasn’t great. He wasn’t anywhere near his 2004-2012 level. If he was, he wouldn’t have lost 4 slam matches in a row.

Djokovic wasn’t “too good” he was better than a declined version of Federer.

 

[KINGROGER]

What a shame.

I just hope these people disappear as Federer's records vanish one by one.

Your life is trolling and hating on Federer and his fans lol. You certainly aren’t a tennis fan.

 

[NoleFam]

@NoleFam For some reason my thread was deleted, but as you could see 31 people (against 1) voted that Dimitrov was better in AO 2017 than in USO 2019. Good to see that most users aren't such big trolls.

The claim that Dimitrov played great in USO 2019 is trolling by itself.

What does it matter since I never said Dimitrov was better in 2019 USO than 2017, but he was indeed good. I said they were comparable which is based on 2 SF runs. Not many on here are as big of a troll as you Clarky/hopy, so you must be doing a self examination in this statement. The fact that you made a thread about something so stupid more than displays that fact.

 

[NoleFam]

Wait, WHAT? So you claim that Nadal had a great year, but Djokovic (who has 2 slams, 2 masters, YE#1 and probably WTF too) had just a DECENT year?

I'm obviously talking about level you dolt. Haven't I said multiple times that 2019 was a great year for Djokovic achievement wise? If we are talking about his playing level then no it was not one of his best.

 

[StrongRule]

I'm obviously talking about level you dolt. Haven't I said multiple times that 2019 was a great year for Djokovic achievement wise? If we are talking about his playing level then no it was not one of his best.

In AO he was close to his best though.

 

[RS]

In AO he was close to his best though.

At it for sure. The last 2 rounds were crazy hitting.

 

[RS]

Old Agassi took peak Fed (arguably one of highest USO peaks ever) to 5 sets.

Old Fed surrendered in 4, meekly squandering countless BP chances and dumping easy 2nd returns and FHs into the net.

Did you watch those 2015 finals? Federer wasn’t great. He wasn’t anywhere near his 2004-2012 level. If he was, he wouldn’t have lost 4 slam matches in a row.

Djokovic wasn’t “too good” he was better than a declined version of Federer.

Federer was no where near his peak form in the Agassi match in 04 though. Seemed troubled by the windy conditions.

 

[mike danny]

Nadal was no ATG back then though. He had couple of slams.

And i wouldn't put oldgassi in the same sentence as old Fed. Enormous difference. Federer is in Another league at that age.

The difference between old Fed and old Agassi is really minimal. Neither of them stood a chance against a younger ATG in his prime, so the other details don't matter.

 

[RS]

The difference between old Fed and old Agassi is really minimal. Neither of them stood a chance against a younger ATG in his prime, so the other details don't matter.

Both came somewhat close though Agassi USO 04 and Fed in Wimbledon 14 taking it 5 sets. I think they did stand a chance even if they lost in slam matches. Fed beat Djokovic 6 times in BO3 and took it to Djokovic in IW14 and USO15 he went 6-7 in that timeframe 2014-16.

 

[Lew II]

The difference between old Fed and old Agassi is really minimal. Neither of them stood a chance against a younger ATG in his prime, so the other details don't matter.

Federer won 3 slams after. Agassi retired.

Don't you think 2014-15 Djokovic had a harder task than 2004-05 Federer?

 

[RS]

Would probably rate the years like;

- 2005/2004/2014
- 2015
- 2006
- 2016

Or something like that, so 2004-2006 is slightly to clearly stronger.

How would you compare 2008 and 2013 these years? Think you told me elsewhere you felt 2013 was overrated.