Will888 said:has anyone said Andre Agassi??? He is pretty darn pure of a player, and i think his strokes are better looking then safins.
jings said:Random1 agree 100%. Agassi a schooled player - enormous talent but he hit dustbin after dustbin of tennis balls growing up so the "natural" epithet doesn't fit I would say. Names that spring to mind Mecir, Bahrami, Leconte - all here so far. Borg I'd also include, sure he trained but that good that young that dominant ... no shortage of talent there. Brings me to my top pick Vitas Gueralitis ... to do what he did and play the way he did, wow that's talent. he makes Safin look like a monk.
IMO you guys are wrong. Agassi IS naturally gifted. I don't recall ever hearing about him hitting endless balls over and over again. I think his hitting ability is pretty innate (not saying he didn't refine it with drilling the way all players do...), he had a lot of natural talent which might be part of the reason why he underachieved so much early on. He was known to scarf fast food and not practice much.jings said:Random1 agree 100%. Agassi a schooled player - enormous talent but he hit dustbin after dustbin of tennis balls growing up so the "natural" epithet doesn't fit I would say.
35ft6 said:IMO you guys are wrong. Agassi IS naturally gifted. I don't recall ever hearing about him hitting endless balls over and over again. I think his hitting ability is pretty innate (not saying he didn't refine it with drilling the way all players do...), he had a lot of natural talent which might be part of the reason why he underachieved so much early on. He was known to scarf fast food and not practice much.
Agassi's dad had him hit against numerous ball machines when he was a kid. So he did hit alot of balls endlessly.
Comprehensive assessment.urban said:Tennis-related talent is a complex thing, which contains 3 different ressorts: technical, athletic and mental abilities. All these skills have to be molded by training and coaching. We tend to reduce talent to something called touch, a natural given hand-eye-coordination. While Borg, Emerson or Nastase were natural athlets, Becker or Gonzales were mentally awfully strong. But we are fascinated by the true technical artists like the mentioned Art Larsen or Henri Cochet. Sometimes 'talent' seems a bit negativ connotated: We see players with great potenial, but underachievers, who were hampered by mental lapses, injuries or both. In this department, we have some players of the highest order like Vines or Hoad, in modern times Leconte, Mecir (who was the last to play with a wooden racket) and Rios come to mind.
I think the fitness and Brad Gilbert made the biggest difference. He used to play almost like Fernando Gonzalez, an ad hoc style of going for broke.jings said:So Bollettieri had no bearing on Agassi's career at all? His image when first on tour was exactly that he didn't practise and was an unfettered talent, could break all the rules, wear whacky clothing, prompting Lendl's forehand and haircut comment. But what got him there in the first place? Is it any coincidence that once Agassi rededicated himself to practising and training later in his career that he topped the rankings once more?
But this thread is about the most naturally gifted. Which I consider him to be one of.He's one of the greats so of course he's got talent, it's how it's focussed and honed that has made him great.
Yes, but the context of this thread is who are the most talented among the most talented. Agassi's natural talent, in conjunction with this vomit inducting workout schedule, allows him to kick butt at 35, but in the early years his talent was more obvious to the casual fan. Now he's so disciplined that people might almost think he's like Lendl out there.My point is that there was far more practise in the young Agassi than people think, as indeed there is generally speaking for modern players vs those of older vintage. What is "talent"? They're all pros, they've all got talent.
Splitting hairs is what TW forums is all about. I'm just saying I don't think Agassi deserves to be singled out as a pro who's exceptional for the number of balls he's hit. As people have said, all pros hit a lot of balls, so when somebody says Agassi hits a lot, I assume they mean it in terms of "more than the normal pro."jings said:35ft6 we're splitting hairs, I say he's got enormous talent you say he's natutrally gifted ... not much there. 8 slams endless titles, the kid can play. i'm not knocking andre, if anything it just says more about the guy. stories of agassi hitting dustbins full of balls all day in his court at home ... Dad picking them up ... Bollettieri acadamy ... he practiced plenty. As to what a pro does 20 minutes before a match ... not much bearing on how many countless hours they've spent drilling behind the scenes. I'm sure Sampras switched from a 2 fister to a ohbh overnight ...
Between or among?GotGame? said:The trend between these players is a shame. All were headcases at one time or another. Luckily, Federer is passed that part of his career.
Are you trying to tell me that McEnroe is more talented than Safin? Are you crazy man?Kevin Patrick said:Remove Safin & put in McEnroe.
Safin is just a pure power player.
There is no artistry/feel in his game like the other names mentioned.
innocent said:Are you trying to tell me that McEnroe is more talented than Safin? Are you crazy man?
I think that Mac may have been the most talented player ever.innocent said:Are you trying to tell me that McEnroe is more talented than Safin? Are you crazy man?
Ok, Back to Elly Vines ...joe sch said:Ellsworth Vines .
He was the best tennis player and got so bored he decided competed with the best on the golf tour. There was never another pro athlete this talented.
GotGame? said:My votes go to Nastase, Safin, Federer, and Rios. Too difficult to decide between them, but am I missing anyone?
POGO said:The sisters did not have the luxury of having any formal tennis training for the most part when they were learning tennis, but mostly taught tennis by tennis illiterate parents.
Yes, the Williams sisters do have some glitches in their tennis mechanics, specially on footwork, but I think this is alot to do with not establishing a sound foundation due to the lack of formal tennis training/teaching early on. But, IMHO, their stroke mechancis are quite good, and often used and credited as examples in tennis books, articles and even at tennis instructional websites.@wright said:Pogo, I would have to say that I thilnk athletic prowess is what carried the Williamses to the top more than tennis talent. It seems that if they were truly talented in tennis, they would have developed more fluid strokes for efficiency, instead they whale at the ball with ugly forehands. I think athletic ability is the only reason they are where they are today.
Kevin Patrick said:Re Agassi's talent:
He won '92 Wimbledon by practicing on hardcourts of Vegas the week before(& was in a pretty bad slump that year as well)
Ha Ha Ha dont make me laugh. McEnroes talent is nowhere near Safin. The only thing he can do better than Safin is volley. Safin has a much more beautiful groundstrokes. Infact safin has the best two handed backhand and has the record for the fastest serve on the ATP tour(even faster than roddicks). To prove it there is an interview below:joe sch said:I think that Mac may have been the most talented player ever.
Safin is a better athlete with more natural power & size.
Mac could have won alot more slams if he trained harder and did not party.
This is why Lendl won soo many titles from '85..'90, he out trained everbody and won matches on power and conditioning, not talent. Same goes for a play like Vitas G., he had tons of talent, could out play Bjorn in thier training session but he also out partied all of the other players also
Kevin Patrick said:Re Agassi's talent:
He won '92 Wimbledon by practicing on hardcourts of Vegas the week before(& was in a pretty bad slump that year as well)
Made the finals of '90 & '91 French, arrived at event day before it started. Hardly played on clay in preparation as well.
Won US Open as unseeded player in '94.
Dropped to #141 in '97 at the age of 27. No one gave him any shot at coming back, he was too old, too many big servers in the game, etc. He finished '98 in the top 8 & '99 at #1.
Won '99 French. Played only one clay event in preparation. Considered withdrawing due to shoulder injury.
What other player could do all this? Mac never recovered from his break of '86. Borg retired at 26. Sampras dropped considerably in late 20s.
Right on! That's a pretty compelling argument you put together.Kevin Patrick said:Re Agassi's talent:
He won '92 Wimbledon by practicing on hardcourts of Vegas the week before(& was in a pretty bad slump that year as well)
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