Why is Federer so hard to put away?
- Thread starter Tenez!
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Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Variety. Belief. Old age that makes him forget the score at times.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Because he’s literally good or great at everything on the tennis court. It’s the same reason why he’s so difficult to thoroughly defeat.
He was outplayed today. This is the most he’s ever been outplayed and still won a match. Evens up a little for all the matches in which HE was the better player, won more points, won the dominance ratio and still lost the match.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
That's correct for the Coric match, but OP was speaking generally. Federer does have a ton of excellent comebacks and from the most unlikely places as well.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly. Even if he is thoroughly outplayed in one department, he still has many, many more limbs to stand on. You have to completely outplay him in all departments (or wait for him to slump in all departments) to record a comprehensive win against him. Best example I can think of would be that French Open final in 2008.
Towny
Hall of Fame
Very true. I think the mental aspect of it is big for many players facing him. I imagine that was also a factor today for Coric
Technology Ruined Tennis
Hall of Fame
The bright side of homogenization?
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
It’s amazing. He’s past his prime and he’s not year end #1 for ten years already.
Rafa.the.Magnificent
G.O.A.T.
Shot selection (and being good enough to execute those shots successfully). Not prolonging rallies.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
"Physically wrecked?"
He's #3 in the world at almost 38. Has never retired from a match in his 21 years on tour. When he called an MTO today, Ted Robinson said, "Roger has never abused this feature of the tour, unlike his rivals. It's literally shocking for me a trainer is out there on court for Roger Federer."Yeah... "physically wrecked."
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Federer was known for his scrap and never say die mentality even when he was in his 20s. I would remember he would have long stretches where he would hit more slice FHs than topspin. Obviously, 10 or so years later with so much experience and wisdom and even worse movement he will turn to the junkballing even more.
Tenez!
Professional
How does that contradict the fact that he was so worn out in that tie-breaker that he stopped attacking on the last 5 points or so?"Physically wrecked?"
The guy was grunting at Nadal levels.
tusharlovesrafa
Hall of Fame
Weak era
JasonG2019
Rookie
Federer has skill
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
It is quite amazing. Both Fed and Rafa should be on crutches by now
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Agree. Great variety of weapons in his arsenal.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
I once heard a player say that the hardest thing about playing Federer is that if you find a winning strategy, he completely changes what he's doing and you have to work out how to beat him all over again.
It must be very hard to play someone who can move so seamlessly from defensive baselining, to offensive baselining, to servebotting, to S&V, to chip & charge, to junkballing. Makes it very difficult to target his weaknesses with your strengths (which is really the way you win tennis matches).
It must be very hard to play someone who can move so seamlessly from defensive baselining, to offensive baselining, to servebotting, to S&V, to chip & charge, to junkballing. Makes it very difficult to target his weaknesses with your strengths (which is really the way you win tennis matches).
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
And won the match when he's 5 years older than Nadal and on his weakest surface. So yes, the fact he won a 2.5 match over a guy 15 years his junior contradicts the fact he was physically wrecked. Oh--- and it was his second match of the day as well.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
He never said that, he said he is "a very talented player."
And that's understating it by a huge degree.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
This is why he's the GOAT.
NuBas
Legend
At this caliber of tennis, it comes down to the small things and one huge thing was his mentality and belief. He encountered many of these situations before, and Coric simply did not maintain his belief.
Talent of course but if we're talking about how Coric didn't win the third set being up tie break 6-4 I believe, then it was all mental fortitude.
Talent of course but if we're talking about how Coric didn't win the third set being up tie break 6-4 I believe, then it was all mental fortitude.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Because all players today only know to play ball-bashing from the back of the court.
They are allergic to the net, and if the other guy stands to their ball-bashing, they are out of sorts.
Think to it: 20 years ago there were still many serve and volley guys who knew their way from any place on the court: nowadays everyone is molded to be a robot from the service line.
To beat Fed you need to vary the length of your shots, don't give him any rhythm from the back, and keep him guessing. It's impossible to do if you just want to play one way.
He knows what's coming and he anticipates, always being one step ahead of you. He plays with his wrist, deflecting and chipping the power you send at him, feeding from it.
Nalbandian beat him so many times because he knew how to mix power with touch and drop shots.
Rafa, Novak and sometimes Murray were just a bit better from the back but still got dominated when they weren't on their A-game, because them too are/were allergic to the net and only learned to win strictly from the back.
Playing the net isn't that difficult, but you need to practice it from the start, and modern trainers just don't teach it anymore.
Stakhovski isn't known to be a wonder serve and volley player, but he dared to change his strategy after being beaten earlier by Fed and easily straight-setted him at W.
As i said, modern players are stuck into an one-dimensional style of play and refuse to learn the subtleties of the game, and that often makes for dreadful watching. Players like Fed knowing to anticipate will always gobble them up.
They are allergic to the net, and if the other guy stands to their ball-bashing, they are out of sorts.
Think to it: 20 years ago there were still many serve and volley guys who knew their way from any place on the court: nowadays everyone is molded to be a robot from the service line.
To beat Fed you need to vary the length of your shots, don't give him any rhythm from the back, and keep him guessing. It's impossible to do if you just want to play one way.
He knows what's coming and he anticipates, always being one step ahead of you. He plays with his wrist, deflecting and chipping the power you send at him, feeding from it.
Nalbandian beat him so many times because he knew how to mix power with touch and drop shots.
Rafa, Novak and sometimes Murray were just a bit better from the back but still got dominated when they weren't on their A-game, because them too are/were allergic to the net and only learned to win strictly from the back.
Playing the net isn't that difficult, but you need to practice it from the start, and modern trainers just don't teach it anymore.
Stakhovski isn't known to be a wonder serve and volley player, but he dared to change his strategy after being beaten earlier by Fed and easily straight-setted him at W.
As i said, modern players are stuck into an one-dimensional style of play and refuse to learn the subtleties of the game, and that often makes for dreadful watching. Players like Fed knowing to anticipate will always gobble them up.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
He knows the game inside out and, more importantly, can use it to his advantage, because he has a broad repertoire. His team analyses his opponent's game well, and he is great at pounding at their weaknesses.
In short:
1) ability to understand
2) ability to execute
In short:
1) ability to understand
2) ability to execute
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
It's much more humble to always say your opponent is extremely dangerous - then beat him 6-1, 6-0
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Federer is not better than Coric on clay. Coric won like 12 points more yesterday despite Federer serving more.
The simple answer to the question is
serve+1
slice
racket head skills (this accounts for slice, 1st serve return, reflexes, volleys, etc)
His court coverage is crap, but because his racket head control is the best in the game ever he can still hit good shots despite barely getting to a ball.
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Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
You need to count in Boric's luck factor. Only match of the day while it was Fraud's second.
BasilashvilitheGOAT
Rookie
Federer plays the same way in tight situations whereas players like Coric get nervous and stop playing as well. The reason that it works so often is that people need to play very well to beat Federer most of the time and it is often still tight so a small lapse can make a big difference.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Wrong: his court coverage is only as good as it needs to be because his wrist play allows him to feed off his oponnent's pace without the need for him to generate any additional one.
That's been his bread and butter for the last 12 years.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
The relentless pursuit of the winners champagne is there for all to see.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Boric was outplaying Fed all match, it's not like Fed's 1h20 of play vs Sousa had a huge effect in the first 2 sets. And if they did, he's really more toast in Bo5 than I'd imagined.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Towny
Hall of Fame
He's better in general, very clearly. He's won a masters this year; Coric hasn't. It's difficult to assess clay as Fed's sample size is so small. Coric made the QF of MC and 1R in Madrid. Fed made QF of Madrid and now Rome. Coric was better for most of yesterday but not overall. I guess that's what happens when you have to play 2 matches in one day
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Bo5 should be easier with its continuous play than having to play two matches with a few hour break.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
I don't think his endurance is great at all to be honest.You really think that Feder is timeless, don't you?
But I wouldn't expect that from any 37 year old. I don't imagine RAFA or Djoko will be top 3 at 37.
He played badly in the first set when the light was tricky but noticeably improved as the light evened out. At his age the rest of the body is still working well due to training and conditioning but I suspect he has a harder time picking the ball out in bad light conditions due to deteriorating visual actuity. Happens to everyone as they age even hyper elite athletes.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yeah, yeah, he is feeling it, alright. Did in the Coric match too.
They do too, that is why they try to get the job done ASAP. Otherwise it can get complicated.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
So true. Today Coric should take some pride in the fact that he got the Federer treatment. Winning a dozen more points and still finding a way to lose? That's classic Roger. Since Federer leads the tour (if that's the right word) in "Simpson's Paradox matches," losing a match against him while also winning more points is a special feat indeed.**
Just the other day, Borna posted a photo on social media of himself looking intently through a microscope with a self-deprecating caption about how he was trying to uncover a breakpoint, lamenting a rather lackluster 1-in-13 conversion rate. Whom does that remind you of?
With numbers like these, why call Dimitrov Baby Fed? Borna could be Roger's true 20-slam heir.
** I do wonder if you're right this is the lowest percentage of points won where he also managed to take the match. A story from five years ago about the "Simpson's Paradox" cites a 4-24 record. I'd imagine in that time that 24 has grown quite a bit (seems like he's suffered quite a few such losses the past few years) but the four has remained static or not grown by much. Any of you stat freaks have any more updates or insight on that factor?
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Acuity isn't as important as motion detection and peripheral vision, both of which are natural talents that deteriorate much more slowly.
It's not like you need to read the text on the ball
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Didn't see he fought off 2 MPs. Wow!
I have been calling him "Revengerer" this year as he has been settling scores with a lot of players who beat him recently, I believe this is his second win over Coric since Halle. He obviously took that loss personally.
Can he get revenge on Tsits for AO? My money is on yes.
I have been calling him "Revengerer" this year as he has been settling scores with a lot of players who beat him recently, I believe this is his second win over Coric since Halle. He obviously took that loss personally.
Can he get revenge on Tsits for AO? My money is on yes.
Sum Buddy Ells
Hall of Fame
Boom-Boom
Legend
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