Wilander: Djokovic's best is better than Nadals and Federers

[Service Ace]

Wawrinka also beat peak Djokovic on clay, so Wawrinka the better player all-time because of that?

No, but it does mean Wawrinka's peak level on clay is better than Djokovic's prime level on clay.
And Federer's average to below average level on clay is better than Djokovic's PEAK level on clay as well.

 

[TheFifthSet]

No, but it does mean Wawrinka's peak level on clay is better than Djokovic's prime level on clay.
And Federer's average to below average level on clay is better than Djokovic's PEAK level on clay as well.

Not really how tennis works, unless you believe that form doesn’t fluctuate from day to day. Djokovic played an average/below average match in the final. Certainly wasn’t his peak level.

 

[itrium84]

It's not just Mats. There's a growing consensus among tennis community (this is outside of this forum) Novak is the best tennis player in history, meaning he had highest peak with greatest domination. Even Nadal confirmed it 2 years ago. There's also 17K+ points stat as objective indicator, unachievable for Novak's rivals.
Yeah, Fed is still undisputed GOAT with unprecedented achievements, it's just that Novak was a little bit better than his best, for a short time - but better.

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[Im(moral) Winner]

Not really how tennis works, unless you believe that form doesn’t fluctuate from day to day. Djokovic played an average/below average match in the final. Certainly wasn’t his peak level.

Djokovic is known for saving his best for finals.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Djokovic is known for saving his best for finals.

Yes, very gud m8

 

[PrinceMoron]

Wilander's head looks like it belongs on a much bigger person's body. It must have been hell for him to learn how to walk.

Cary Grant had his suits cut to hide the same issue

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[RF-18]

No, but it does mean Wawrinka's peak level on clay is better than Djokovic's prime level on clay.
And Federer's average to below average level on clay is better than Djokovic's PEAK level on clay as well.

 

[Service Ace]

 

[Tony48]

Comes down to age more than anything.

I've said it before many times: if Fed had suffered peak losses to 30-year-olds it would be an indictment on him.

It's all compounded by the fact that even older Federer remained a thorn in his side thereafter. Djoker should be absolutely dominating their H2H with an age advantage like that.

And 30-year-olds shouldn't have won the last 9 slams....yet here we are.

Do you pull these rules out of thin air?

 

[Tony48]

No, but it does mean Wawrinka's peak level on clay is better than Djokovic's prime level on clay.
And Federer's average to below average level on clay is better than Djokovic's PEAK level on clay as well.

Does this logic also apply to all the times Nadal beat Federer on hard courts earlier in their career?

 

[Deleted member 757377]

wins over top10 ranked big3:

djokovic 52
nadal 45
federer 32

 

[itrium84]

wins over top10 ranked big3:

djokovic 52
nadal 45
federer 32

This one tells a lot about their rivalries, even more than regular h2h stat.

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[Deleted member 757377]

This one tells a lot about their rivalries, even more than regular h2h stat.

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Djoko also has 25 wins over the 4th best player of the 2000s, to Federer's 14 and Nadal's 17.

 

[Steve0904]

One man's opinion only. Doesn't matter how many slams he won in the 80's, his opinion is still only an opinion like anyone else's, holds no extra weight. In fact, it might hold less when you consider the nature of the majority of Wilander's comments since he became a broadcaster.

 

[Steve0904]

Wut lol

Well in fairness, if the OP can post quotes from Wilander, then believing in Federer doesn't seem so bad, does it?

 

[Mainad]

Djoko also has 25 wins over the 4th best player of the 2000s, to Federer's 14 and Nadal's 17.

Actually 23 wins (let's not get carried away here).

 

[Mainad]

Obviously that was the pre Amor Y Paz era!

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Cary Grant had his suits cut to hide the same issue

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Holy crap you're right.

 

[Midaso240]

Djoko also has 25 wins over the 4th best player of the 2000s, to Federer's 14 and Nadal's 17.

I didn't realize Djokovic had beaten Agassi 25 times,I must have been living under a rock

 

[Deleted member 307496]

 

[Fabresque]

Lol at smug Djokovic fans that think he's undefeatable again.

Reminder that Post Prime Federer took down PEAK Djokovic in Djokovic's best year on Federer's worst surface, denying him the CYGS.

Wow, all that hard work to beat Djokovic only to **** himself in the final against Nadal in a monumental choke.

 

[EnglishNadal]

I love Wilander and find his commentary on Eurosport brilliant but I disagree that Djokovics peak level on clay is higher than nadals peak.

Peak level clay nadal 2008

Peak level grass nadal 2008

Peak level hardcourt Djokovic 2011

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Actually 23 wins (let's not get carried away here).

25-11 their rivalry.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

I didn't realize Djokovic had beaten Agassi 25 times,I must have been living under a rock

wins over top10s in the 2000s:

agassi 33
murray 101

 

[BeatlesFan]

I disagree that Djokovics peak level on clay is higher than nadals peak.

So does every other human being on this planet disagree with this since it's utterly asinine.

These two would agree, however.

 

[ABCD]

So does every other human being on this planet disagree with this since it's utterly asinine.

These two would agree, however.

If you would have a son like Novak I would not mind you being cocky and proud at all.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

WI-UO-AO 11-12:

nadal vs the field ---> 54 sets to 5
nadal vs djokovic ---> 4 sets to 9

WI-UO-AO 15-16:
federer vs the field ---> 51 sets to 2
federer vs djokovic ---> 3 sets to 9


This proves peak Djokovic beats peak Federer/Nadal and therefore has probably the highest level.

 

[mnttlrg]

Not that anyone cares at this point, but I agree with OP. There was a point at peak Djokovic where I had never seen anything better.

But average Djokovic is far below average Nadal or Federer.


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[veroniquem]

Love it!

You and @veroniquem are both on record that Djokovic is the GOAT.

Have you discussed your fantasies with her?

What fantasy? Most complete resume ever. Stop the denial and bow down (hey maybe Fed will win Rome and M-C next year )

 

[veroniquem]

How's that anywhere near the same level?

Again, Federer's beaten Djoker 22 times, nine of which came after age 30. And Djoker is six years younger. That's damning.

Djoko leads the head to head vs the other big 4. All of them. Overall. Now THAT's damning (but normal for the GOAT )

 

[veroniquem]

Not that anyone cares at this point, but I agree with OP. There was a point at peak Djokovic where I had never seen anything better.

But average Djokovic is far below average Nadal or Federer.


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Oh really? Yet he leads both of them in the head to head and he's won all the big events, they haven't.
Is it because they've been "average" a lot more often than he has ?? (excuses, excuses )

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Djoko leads the head to head vs the other big 4. All of them. Overall. Now THAT's damning (but normal for the GOAT )

Counting Mugray lol.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Oh really? Yet he leads both of them in the head to head and he's won all the big events, they haven't.
Is it because they've been "average" a lot more often than he has ?? (excuses, excuses )

Federer is 37 years old lol. Kind of stupid to expect him to keep up against an ATG 5-6 years his junior.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

What fantasy? Most complete resume ever. Stop the denial and bow down (hey maybe Fed will win Rome and M-C next year )

Or maybe Novak will win 7 majors to overtake Roger...

 

[Fedforever]

Or maybe Novak will win 7 majors to overtake Roger...

Imagine the weak era arguments that will erupt them.....

 

[Rafa's OCD]

It was a great performance....

and also only correct if you never saw Roger Federer circa 2004-2007.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

AO11-AO12:

Djokovic 32-1(97%)
Nadal 29-4 (87-9%)
Murray 26-5 (83.9%)
Federer 24-5 (82.8%)

AO15-AO16:

Djokovic 34-1 (97.1%)
Wawrinka 24-4 (85.7%)
Murray 25-5 (83.3%)
Federer 23-5 (82.1%)


Djokovic = best among the best

 

[CYGS]

yes, I'm sure Federer would want to win Rome and MC next year over a slam to fulfill your parameters instead of a slam.
Oh wait, he wouldn't, because that would be damn stupid, just like your idiotic posts in this regard.

One trick pony. Other than personal insults, what else can you bring to the table. Stop being so predictable.

 

[abmk]

One trick pony. Other than personal insults, what else can you bring to the table. Stop being so predictable.

I also gave the reason there. But that flew above your head.. And yes, telling off dumb/terrible posts like those and almost every one of your posts is part of how I deal with cluelessness. Now go apply burnol on that butthurt.

There is plenty of other stuff I know, like stats, history, collection of articles, videos etc. But as they say, do not cast pearls before the swine.

 

[CYGS]

I also gave the reason there. But that flew above your head.. And yes, telling off dumb/terrible posts like those and almost every one of your posts is part of how I deal with cluelessness. Now go apply burnol on that butthurt.

There is plenty of other stuff I know, like stats, history, collection of articles, videos etc. But as they say, do not cast pearls before the swine.

Boring.

 

[abmk]

Boring.

yes, reality is either boring or hurtful for people like you.

 

[CYGS]

yes, reality is either boring or hurtful for people like you.

Again, a super boring one-trick pony.

 

[abmk]

Again, a super boring one-trick pony.

and yet again, utter denial of reality from the utterly delusional coward.
"There is plenty of other stuff I know, like stats, history, collection of articles, videos etc. But as they say, do not cast pearls before the swine."

The more you go on with your delusional BS, the more of a laughing stock and butthurt you will be.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I wish @abmk was spending more time on productive tennis things rather than engaging his duller side arguing with bots.

 

[CYGS]

and yet again, utter denial of reality from the utterly delusional coward.
"There is plenty of other stuff I know, like stats, history, collection of articles, videos etc. But as they say, do not cast pearls before the swine."

The more you go on with your delusional BS, the more of a laughing stock and butthurt you will be.

You are THE laughing stock. Removing all your posts insulting non-Fed fans, what do you have left? You should thank us for giving you life.

 

[abmk]

You are THE laughing stock. Removing all your posts insulting non-Fed fans, what do you have left? You should thank us for giving you life.

lot of posts related to tennis.
Which is something you'd actually notice if you weren't busy with your Djoko agenda or posting BS posts putting down every other player.
or alternatively not run away like the stinking coward you are once Djoko started declining some time in late 2016.
Discouraging trolls/pathetic posters like you is one part of my posts. Nowhere near the most important, however.

 

[abmk]

I wish @abmk was spending more time on productive tennis things rather than engaging his duller side arguing with bots.

Some of these trolls ought to know they won't be allowed to run unchecked with their utter nonsense.

 

[CYGS]

lot of posts related to tennis.
Which is something you'd actually notice if you weren't busy with your Djoko agenda or posting BS posts putting down every other player.
or alternatively not run away like the stinking coward you are once Djoko started declining some time in late 2016.
Discouraging trolls/pathetic posters like you is one part of my posts. Nowhere near the most important, however.

I was here until 2nd half of 2017 and left the forum in part due to my one-year backpacking trip around the world. Not that I'm obliged to explain myself, but 80% of your posts are just plain insults - you're the very definition of trolls.

 

[CYGS]

You were hiding for more than one year - remember that.You are a plastic fan and nothing more.

He's still a hateful troll.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Some of these trolls ought to know they won't be allowed to run unchecked with their utter nonsense.

Lolman, is it not written "Don't feed the troll"? It's lack of attention that makes them wither. Leave 'em to their fan club circlejerk and see them go stale, no?