Starting Crosses with knot or starting clamp?

What are the benefits of one method over the other?

I do have a starting clamp, but it seems easier to just tie a knot and go, rather that clamp it and then come back 3,4 strings later and tie it off.

What would be the advantage of using a starting clamp to start the crosses
with?

If you do use a starting clamp, how many do you string before you go back and tie off the first cross? Would you then use just a normal "tie off" knot, like a double half hitch or parnell knot or do u still use a "bulky knot"?

JackB1 said:

What are the benefits of one method over the other?

I do have a starting clamp, but it seems easier to just tie a knot and go, rather that clamp it and then come back 3,4 strings later and tie it off.

What would be the advantage of using a starting clamp to start the crosses
with?

If you do use a starting clamp, how many do you string before you go back and tie off the first cross? Would you then use just a normal "tie off" knot, like a double half hitch or parnell knot or do u still use a "bulky knot"?

Click to expand...

When tying off, use your favorite tie-off knot, be it double half hitch or parnell or whatever. Bulky would be overkill I think, and defeat (at least one of) the point(s) of using the starting clamp method in the first place.

As for advantages, a local MRT in my area told me that those bulky knots can be pulled into the grommet when you first pull tension which can be somewhat stressful for the frame. He claims (and I don't know the validity of this claim) that in some situations, such stress from a bulky knot can actually create a weak spot in the frame such that just scraping it on the court when going for a low volley could cause it to crack.

Is that true? I don't know. Is it likely even if it is true? Probably not.

I still use this method because I prefer having all the same kind of not, and it does indeed seem to be less stressful for the grommet.

As for how many you do before you go back, I don't know that it matters too much. Three or four or five or whatever floats your boat (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this point, and there is indeed a magic number of crosses you should do.)

I recently restrung a racket that was purchased from an Online store (not TW), it was strung by the retailer. After removing the old string I noticed the tie-off grommet was pushed in so far that the outside of the head guard buldged out. My only conclusion is that a bulky/starting knot was used and pushed the grommet into the frame.

My only recourse since the grommet was flaired was to tube it and use the other side to tie off. I told my client about the problem and suggested he call the store to send him a new grommet set, which they promptly did. He should of asked for a set of string as well, but maybe that was pushing it.

I personally don't like using a starting knot or a bulky knot just for that same reason I described. I'd rather use a starting clamp, instead.

As for how many crosses before tying off the start, 5 or more is recomended. Sometimes I forget and finish the last cross and tie off before tying off the start.

I also use a starting clamp to start my crosses, so all knots are the same,and you would not be tying off on a main string and pulling tension against it, and when using thin gut or other 'fragile' multifilament strings, and especially at higher tensions, it is not uncommon to snap that first cross string right at the knot or at the two sharp turns the string makes, With using a starting clamp, you do not pull tension against these turns. The USRSA stated at a stringers symposium that they will be updating their recommended procedure, for using the starting clamp use to start crosses.

I get rid of the starting clamp usually right in the beginning.
I clamp the end with the starting clamp outside the frame, then clamp the far end as usual(fixed clamps), then clamp the near end and get rid of the starting clamp and tie off right in the beginning, just so no accidents occur to knock off the starting clamp.(Obviously I wait till a few crosses are placed on racquets that tie off on crosses like the pure storm which is tied to the 3rd cross),I actually see no benefit to waiting till later, but I'm sure its a matter of preference like many other issues. ( Since that beginning cross string is now a tie off I also up the tension like I usually do for tie offs, but thats another issue) .

Starting clamp. All knots are equal and less pressure on the mains when making the first pull (much as the others have said).

I string a variety of racquets for clients - some outdated and older frames that it's either impossible to find grommets or way way too expensive to replace existing grommet sets....that being said I have found that usins a starting clamp increases the life of the upper grommets where a tie off knot would usualy be placed. I think it's entirely up to the stringer when to remove the starting clamp, for me it usually depends on the frame and how quickly I am weaving crosses, usually the 5th or 6th cross for me is when I remove the starting clamp, on my own racquets I string the entire frame before removing the starting clamp and tying off just because my frames are 18x20 and I usually get in such a groove weaving that I don't want to stop...but for customers frames it's usually the 5th or 6th cross.

Just my opinion here...

great answers guys....I now see the benefits of using the starting clamp instead of the bulky knot.

In watching Yulittle video on this, he does 5 crosses and makes a point of showing that you want to have 1 flying clamp in the diagnolly opposite spot of the starting clamp, before you remove the starting clamp and tie off.
After you tension the starting cross, you take off the starting clamp and then move that diagonal flying clamp to clamp it just inside the frame of that first cross and then you tie your knot.

Only reason I could see for using the "bulky knot" method would be that you think you might come up short on string length and you want to use as little string as possible.

Starting knots are ugly and don't always hold up to the first pull. Make your string job look like that of a professional by using a starting clamp and tying your regular knot.

As for when to go back to remove the clamp and tie off. My former boss and stringing mentor would always finish weaving the crosses before he would go back and tie off. I always find this risky as the string can get caught around the clamp and pull it off if you are not careful.

A quick tip on using the starting clamp. If you want it to have incredible grip on the string (without causing damage) and no slippage: Just cut a piece of sand paper and fold it over the string right where you will be placing the starting clamp and the string won't move at all.

A knot and go if your stringing for yourself. If your tension is really really high and the knot breaks then use a starting clamp next time.

Marc C. said:

As for when to go back to remove the clamp and tie off. My former boss and stringing mentor would always finish weaving the crosses before he would go back and tie off. I always find this risky as the string can get caught around the clamp and pull it off if you are not careful.

Click to expand...

With a neos or similar this is more or less your only option as you only have one glidebar on the table for crosses, unless you have a couple of starting clamps or a spare flying clamp you'll have to go to the finish before coming back to tie off

Thanks guys. I couldn't figure out what would be the benefits as blindingly obvious as I have laways used a starting know but these arguments make logical sense.

I also was watching the pro stringing rooms at a tournament and they all use starting clamps for the crosses. So from here on in.... I'm converted.

I string for myself and either way works. I bought a starting clamp a few years ago. After that, I never went back to a bulky knot. Yes they both work, but it seems like a cleaner string job with a smaller knot everywhere. So I go 5 strings and then clamp at the top cross. Then I just tie my normal tie-off knot and I'm done.

I use starting clamp..

I use starting clamp to start crosses in the middle of the racket head.

I do hybrid stringing:
Mains = Natural gut
Crosses = Multi/Synthetic.

I string the crosses this way because of the following benefits:

1. Reduce string friction while weaving
2. Faster weaving because you are only weaving 10 ft instead of 20 ft.

Ash_Smith said:

Starting clamp. All knots are equal and less pressure on the mains when making the first pull (much as the others have said).

Click to expand...

Agreed, Same here.

JackB1 said:

Only reason I could see for using the "bulky knot" method would be that you think you might come up short on string length and you want to use as little string as possible.

Click to expand...

You don't need too much string for a Pro knot. If you have enough string just to reach the tension head, you'll have plenty for a pro knot.

Marc C. said:

As for when to go back to remove the clamp and tie off. My former boss and stringing mentor would always finish weaving the crosses before he would go back and tie off. I always find this risky as the string can get caught around the clamp and pull it off if you are not careful.

Click to expand...

The top cross is the last tie-off I do as I leave the clamp on until I've finished the crosses. You can always loop the tail within itself and the place within the handle of the clamp. It's tidy and out the way.

Regards

Paul

uk_skippy said:

Agreed, Same here.





The top cross is the last tie-off I do as I leave the clamp on until I've finished the crosses. You can always loop the tail within itself and the place within the handle of the clamp. It's tidy and out the way.

Regards

Paul

Click to expand...

Hi Paul
Is this just a personal preference or is there a reason for this as opposed to tieing it off after 5 or so mains?

I'm trying to modify my stringing habits based on best practise and scientific reasons behind certain things.

I have alot of bad habits

ricardo said:

I use starting clamp to start crosses in the middle of the racket head.

I do hybrid stringing:
Mains = Natural gut
Crosses = Multi/Synthetic.

I string the crosses this way because of the following benefits:

1. Reduce string friction while weaving
2. Faster weaving because you are only weaving 10 ft instead of 20 ft.

Click to expand...

Do you go from the center up and tie, then the bottom down and tie , or do you alternate top and bottom strings 1 ahead (as most people do mains) ? Also how many pulls on your two center strings ?

ced said:

Do you go from the center up and tie, then the bottom down and tie , or do you alternate top and bottom strings 1 ahead (as most people do mains) ? Also how many pulls on your two center strings ?

Click to expand...

I do it in the following sequence.
1. From the center I go up and tie.
2. From the center I go down and tie.

Two center strings
I clamp the two center strings using a floating clamp.
I pull the bottom center string and hold it outside the edge of the racket with a starting clamp. I then pull and weave the top center string all the way to the top and tie-off. I then pull the bottom center string and remove the starting clamp and continue pulling and weaving to the bottom and then tie off.

I've split quite a few grommets using the starting knot. Since I switched to clamp & regular knot, I have not had that problem ever again.

I like using a starting clamp, then tying a pro knot. A good thing about the starting clamp technique vs. the starting knot is that unlike starting knots, the starting clamp method does not mushroom the grommet hole.

i tend to use the starting knot. havent really had issues.

zapvor said:

i tend to use the starting knot. havent really had issues.

Click to expand...

Do your starting knot then take it off and see if you did any damage to the anchor string. You may decide it's better off to use a starting clamp.

It's just everyone's personal preference.

I'm a big fan of using a starting clamp. It only takes a few more seconds and puts less stress on the grommets and frame.

Starting clamp for me. It just makes it easier and more tidy of a job.

I prefer the starting clamp because the knot is smaller and not pulled into the center of the grommet.

Sweet-Spot said:

Hi Paul
Is this just a personal preference or is there a reason for this as opposed to tieing it off after 5 or so mains?

I'm trying to modify my stringing habits based on best practise and scientific reasons behind certain things.

I have alot of bad habits

Click to expand...

Hi

It is my personal preference. Once I get started doing the crosses I want to finish them, not go back to tie-off half way thru them.

Regards

Paul

In my 20 years of stringing, I have only used a starting clamp.

Is there a preferred video on how to use a starting clamp? I have one but sort of followed the Klippermate instructions which used a starting knot

v-verb said:

Is there a preferred video on how to use a starting clamp? I have one but sort of followed the Klippermate instructions which used a starting knot

Click to expand...

how do we embed videos in posts here? I've seen a few good ones on YT

Sweet-Spot said:

how do we embed videos in posts here? I've seen a few good ones on YT

Click to expand...

You can't embed videos, but you can post the url to videos.

Edit: I didn't really touch on the OP, as it's been answered pretty darn well. The one thing that isn't ideal about the starting clamp method is that you are guaranteed 'knot' tension loss if you use a starting clamp. This isn't necessarily the case with a starting knot (as you've got an anchor with no outside-the-frame loss. I think regardless of whether or not you end up using the starting clamp, you should at least know how to tie a proper starting knot. This means a knot that prevents anchor string crushing AND is big enough not to get sucked into a well-worn grommet. This may mean a standard starting knot sitting on top of a piece of scrap string (more commonly known as a 'deadman's knot,' although to my understanding, a true deadman's knot is a double half hitch with scrap string inserted under it (which isn't recommended, IMHO).

Even with the caveat of knot tension loss, I find the starting clamp method wildly preferable. It looks cleaner and is less stressful on the grommet. No personal opinion on whether or not it's actually less stressful on the frame itself. If you're tying good/proper starting knots, you shouldn't have too much trouble with sucked-in-knots.

uk_skippy said:

Agreed, Same here.

You don't need too much string for a Pro knot. If you have enough string just to reach the tension head, you'll have plenty for a pro knot.

The top cross is the last tie-off I do as I leave the clamp on until I've finished the crosses. You can always loop the tail within itself and the place within the handle of the clamp. It's tidy and out the way.

Regards

Paul

Click to expand...

I do it identically, for reasons elaborated upon below:

Sweet-Spot said:

Hi Paul
Is this just a personal preference or is there a reason for this as opposed to tieing it off after 5 or so mains?

I'm trying to modify my stringing habits based on best practise and scientific reasons behind certain things.

I have alot of bad habits

Click to expand...

uk_skippy said:

Hi

It is my personal preference. Once I get started doing the crosses I want to finish them, not go back to tie-off half way thru them.

Regards

Paul

Click to expand...

My reasoning (beyond "personal preference"): I try to "shift gears" as little as possible in my process, this is also the main reason why I pre-lace mains (which makes it really hard to watch me string, since there's string everywhere in the frame, sorry..). What I mean by "shift gears" is switching between one task and doing another. When you are stringing the crosses, you're doing two things: Weave, then tension/clamp. You get into a 'rhythm' doing things, and disrupting this to back-up and tie off the top is pointless if you trust in your starting clamp. In reality, tying off 3-5 crosses in versus at the very end of the job yields NO benefit besides maybe getting the starting clamp out of the way. I've never personally found a starting clamp movement-prohibitive, so I always leave it on. I also like to keep my starter handle up, not sure if that'll make a difference in the discussion.

My reasoning behind pre-lacing is that I've already got the string end in my hand, why not lace as many mains as possible (don't even need to rotate the racquet to do this!), and then you can let go of the string (and prevent an added string-end search). This is the mantra of "eliminating wasted movements/processes" in your process. That's my 'logical' reasoning to what Paul is describing as 'personal preference.' I have a suspicion Paul's "personal preference" is something like: do things this way because they simply make sense. In anything you do out of habit, you should occasionally ask yourself "why exactly am I doing things this way? Is this really the best way?" Habits are hard to break, but you can always improve on things you're doing if you think about it critically. IMHO.

Virtua Tennis said:

Do your starting knot then take it off and see if you did any damage to the anchor string. You may decide it's better off to use a starting clamp.

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IIRC, zap doesn't have a starting clamp, at least at work -- which might explain his preference.

v-verb said:

Is there a preferred video on how to use a starting clamp? I have one but sort of followed the Klippermate instructions which used a starting knot

Click to expand...

I actually prefer text descriptions over videos, as videos usually take way, waaaay too long to get the point across (if you know exactly what you want out of the video, at least). Then again, I'm probably one of the most needlessly wordy people in this sub-forum, so take that FWIW

My process:

A) Weave the second cross. Pull some slack. [I like to keep my second cross in a 'V' shape before the next step]
B) Weave the top cross, make sure your string tail is long enough to reach the tensioner. [If not, there's some low-friction slack in a 'V' from above].
C) Set your starting clamp butting up against the frame.
D) Ensure the "loop" between cross 1 and cross 2 is long enough to reach your tensioner (with a tiny bit of slack to actually tension).
E) You're done -- and you're already one string ahead. Proceed as usual until crosses are done.
F) Return to the top and re-tension Cross 1.
G) Clamp and tie off.

FAQ:
Q: "Why are you stringing the second cross first, DD?"
A: This minimizes the amount of string pulled through the crosses. If you string the top cross first, and then proceed as normal, you have to weave the top cross with a very short length of string, and then weave the second cross, and then pull ALLLLLLL of the string through the mains. This isn't friendly to the string, and it's a waste of time. Use the slightly-less-short length of string to string the second AND top cross.

Q: "Why don't you remove the starting clamp earlier?"
A: See above post. If you are clumsy, feel free to tie off the top cross as soon as it's convenient. (To be fair, this really is a 'style' question).

diredesire said:

I actually prefer text descriptions over videos, as videos usually take way, waaaay too long to get the point across (if you know exactly what you want out of the video, at least). Then again, I'm probably one of the most needlessly wordy people in this sub-forum, so take that FWIW

My process:

A) Weave the second cross. Pull some slack. [I like to keep my second cross in a 'V' shape before the next step]
B) Weave the top cross, make sure your string tail is long enough to reach the tensioner. [If not, there's some low-friction slack in a 'V' from above].
C) Set your starting clamp butting up against the frame.
D) Ensure the "loop" between cross 1 and cross 2 is long enough to reach your tensioner (with a tiny bit of slack to actually tension).
E) You're done -- and you're already one string ahead. Proceed as usual until crosses are done.
F) Return to the top and re-tension Cross 1.
G) Clamp and tie off.

FAQ:
Q: "Why are you stringing the second cross first, DD?"
A: This minimizes the amount of string pulled through the crosses. If you string the top cross first, and then proceed as normal, you have to weave the top cross with a very short length of string, and then weave the second cross, and then pull ALLLLLLL of the string through the mains. This isn't friendly to the string, and it's a waste of time. Use the slightly-less-short length of string to string the second AND top cross.

Q: "Why don't you remove the starting clamp earlier?"
A: See above post. If you are clumsy, feel free to tie off the top cross as soon as it's convenient. (To be fair, this really is a 'style' question).

Click to expand...

Thanks diredesire - I'll give that a try!

I sometimes use a starting clamp, but not usually. I don't use a bulky knot either... Nothing has ever happened...

I do the following:

1. Weave the 2nd cross first, then weave the 1st top cross.

2. Use machines fixed clamp to clamp the 2nd cross farthest from the tension head.Optional if you want to back this up with starting clamp on outside 2nd cross near tension head.

3. Tension 1st top cross, clamp with other machines fixed clamp, and tie off with finishing knot.

4. Weave one ahead, tension 2nd cross, continue as normal.

No starting clamp needed (unless you wish to back up the anchor clamp on
1st pull) , and finishing knot can be done.

This technique I sent to USRSA couple years ago and it was published in their RSI magazine.

Could you use the starting clamp instead of a knot on a glide bar stringer?
Or do you need and extra starting clamp?

Thanks

hyperion99 said:

Could you use the starting clamp instead of a knot on a glide bar stringer?
Or do you need and extra starting clamp?

Thanks

Click to expand...

You can use a starting clamp instead of a knot on any type of stringer.

jim e said:

I also use a starting clamp to start my crosses, so all knots are the same,and you would not be tying off on a main string and pulling tension against it, and when using thin gut or other 'fragile' multifilament strings, and especially at higher tensions, it is not uncommon to snap that first cross string right at the knot or at the two sharp turns the string makes, With using a starting clamp, you do not pull tension against these turns. The USRSA stated at a stringers symposium that they will be updating their recommended procedure, for using the starting clamp use to start crosses.

Click to expand...

Hi everyone. Newbie here so please bear with my question.
Regardless of whether using the SC or starting knot method, the tie off would be at the same grommet (usually the one recommended by manufacturer, for example 8H) right? And this would be tying off anchoring a main, right?
If this is true then at the end of the day both ways be it a starting knot or finishing knot (in case of using SC) would end up with a knot holding the set tension, wouldn't it?

Jim in the post above seems to say that using a starting knot would pull tension against a main string at the tie off and also pulling tension against the 2 turns (grommet) as the string makes its way from the starting knot to the first cross. My argument is when using a SC, the same would also apply except in the reverse order. The moment you make the finishing knot and release SC, the string will also pull tension against the 2 turns leading to the tie-off AND the tie-off would also pull tension against the main, no?

So given my understanding, the stress factors are both the same whether using SC or starting knot.
I hope my question makes sense....................... Thanks.

ertorque said:

Hi everyone. Newbie here so please bear with my question.
Regardless of whether using the SC or starting knot method, the tie off would be at the same grommet (usually the one recommended by manufacturer, for example 8H) right? And this would be tying off anchoring a main, right?
If this is true then at the end of the day both ways be it a starting knot or finishing knot (in case of using SC) would end up with a knot holding the set tension, wouldn't it?

Jim in the post above seems to say that using a starting knot would pull tension against a main string at the tie off and also pulling tension against the 2 turns (grommet) as the string makes its way from the starting knot to the first cross. My argument is when using a SC, the same would also apply except in the reverse order. The moment you make the finishing knot and release SC, the string will also pull tension against the 2 turns leading to the tie-off AND the tie-off would also pull tension against the main, no?

So given my understanding, the stress factors are both the same whether using SC or starting knot.
I hope my question makes sense....................... Thanks.

Click to expand...

That would depend on whether you're using fixed clamps or flying clamps. With flying clamps you may be tensioning the second cross putting much less pressure on the starting knot. When using fixed clamp the top cross is tensioned.

Irvin said:

That would depend on whether you're using fixed clamps or flying clamps. With flying clamps you may be tensioning the second cross putting much less pressure on the starting knot. When using fixed clamp the top cross is tensioned.

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Irvin, I am comparing SC vs starting knot with other parameters being held constant.
So the contention here is
1) SC fixed clamp vs starting knot fixed clamp
OR
2) SC flying clamp vs starting knot flying clamp.

I always use a starting knot. I use a "figure eight knot" variation, which, when tensioned, looks/is same as a proknot. The tail of the knot prevents the knot being pulled in the grommet. In fact, I have to pull the tail after tensioning the cross, as it is still loose.

If you are afraid that a startknot damages the grommet, you can pull the first 2 crosses in one pull. Wouldn't hurt, as these are shorter, better for a more even SBS.

MathieuR said:

I always use a starting knot. I use a "figure eight knot" variation, which, when tensioned, looks/is same as a proknot. The tail of the knot prevents the knot being pulled in the grommet. In fact, I have to pull the tail after tensioning the cross, as it is still loose.

If you are afraid that a startknot damages the grommet, you can pull the first 2 crosses in one pull. Wouldn't hurt, as these are shorter, better for a more even SBS.

Click to expand...

this is what I do, start the crosses like the mains. Then pull the tie off cross, tie it off and then carry on with the rest. No issues with this.

ertorque said:

Hi everyone. Newbie here so please bear with my question.
Regardless of whether using the SC or starting knot method, the tie off would be at the same grommet (usually the one recommended by manufacturer, for example 8H) right? And this would be tying off anchoring a main, right?
If this is true then at the end of the day both ways be it a starting knot or finishing knot (in case of using SC) would end up with a knot holding the set tension, wouldn't it?

Jim in the post above seems to say that using a starting knot would pull tension against a main string at the tie off and also pulling tension against the 2 turns (grommet) as the string makes its way from the starting knot to the first cross. My argument is when using a SC, the same would also apply except in the reverse order. The moment you make the finishing knot and release SC, the string will also pull tension against the 2 turns leading to the tie-off AND the tie-off would also pull tension against the main, no?

So given my understanding, the stress factors are both the same whether using SC or starting knot.
I hope my question makes sense....................... Thanks.

Click to expand...

I think what Jim was saying is that a starting knot squeezes the main string and crushes down into the grommet then makes two sharp turns. This is while the machine is pulling reference tension on the string (less the friction from weaving through the mains). When using the starting clamp you are pulling tension on the second cross string ( only getting about 1/2 tension on the top cross). After the crosses are in then you are pulling the top cross, removing the starting clamp, clamping off, and then tying off. Before releasing the base of the clamp, after I have tied off, I am pulling on the tail of the knot. This helps it not pull into the grommet and the drawback or reduced tension from the machine clamp to the knot also pulls less on the knot/main that it is tied to.

Chappy said:

Before releasing the base of the clamp, after I have tied off, I am pulling on the tail of the knot. This helps it not pull into the grommet and the drawback or reduced tension from the machine clamp to the knot also pulls less on the knot/main that it is tied to.

Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in Chappy. The way I look at it, after you release the base of the clamp after tying off, there will be tension on the knot (ie the knot which is tied anchoring the main is holding the tension). This IMO is no different than when you use a starting knot. With a starting knot, the knot is made taut the moment you pull on the second cross and thereafter whereas using SC the knot starts to bear the load after you release the base of the clamp ( when you pull the first cross once more).

@ertorque
Yes! I would agree with you if you tie a starting knot and pull tension on the second cross. This puts less than full tension on the first cross because of the 180 turn around the grommet. Resulting in much less pressure on the starting knot.

I was assuming that most people with fixed clamps were pulling full tension on the top cross and starting knot, then clamping and moving on down the racquet. I personally have never had a major issue using a starting knot but using the starting clamp in my experience has been easier on the knot grommet. To each their own. I get the feeling this is similar to the 6 point vs 2 point debate!

diredesire said:

Q: "Why are you stringing the second cross first, DD?"
A: This minimizes the amount of string pulled through the crosses. If you string the top cross first, and then proceed as normal, you have to weave the top cross with a very short length of string, and then weave the second cross, and then pull ALLLLLLL of the string through the mains. This isn't friendly to the string, and it's a waste of time. Use the slightly-less-short length of string to string the second AND top cross.

Click to expand...

I get it, but still seems like flawed logic. You have to pull that same amount of string through ALLLLLLL the other 17 or 18 crosses anyway.

chrisingrassia said:

I get it, but still seems like flawed logic. You have to pull that same amount of string through ALLLLLLL the other 17 or 18 crosses anyway.

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Not true if you pre-weave some of the upper crosses the only portion of string that is pulled through at the top is the part of the string used to weave the upper cross. The majority of the string below that point never goes through those upper mains.

EDIT: I should have let DD answer this post for himself but he has not been on the boards for a while now.

Irvin said:

Not true if you pre-weave some of the upper crosses the only portion of string that is pulled through at the top is the part of the string used to weave the upper cross. The majority of the string below that point never goes through those upper mains.

EDIT: I should have let DD answer this post for himself but he has not been on the boards for a while now.

Click to expand...

If you have a 16x19 frame, you have 19 crosses. Let's say you pre-weave the top 2/3 crosses, like DD said. OK, cool, then only a 4' section (or whatever small amount) had to be weaved for those top 2/3 crosses. I get it. But if you're doing that process so that "you don't have to drag all the string across the mains for those top crosses", you still have to drag the other 16-17' through all the mains for another 16 or 17 mains anyway, so I'm just not convinced of the logic behind it.

Unless you're saying you start weaving crosses at #9/10? In that case, that would different than what DD is speaking to.

No I start weaving normally st 3 then 2 the one unless I'm doing 1 piece.

Irvin said:

No I start weaving normally st 3 then 2 the one unless I'm doing 1 piece.

Click to expand...

That actually wouldn't be a bad idea though if doing 2pc, to halve the crosses string length and start at whatever the middle cross is. That seems to make more sense to me than doing the just the top 2 or 3.