Nole at number 1

[RaulRamirez]

Hmmmm this is a bit of an interesting conundrum here. I do of course see what you are saying and in general I find the defending thing an error most of the time because of the factors you point out. It all evens out and it is essentially a year long race each year.

However, in this case, I still think the oddity of the timing in the season helps him. I might be wrong, but let's talk it out logically. Your bold is a good point in a general sense. But, because of the timing of Novak's rise, he will have several months before he will have points start coming off next year if he doesn't match the lofty results this year from Wimbledon on. By that point, it really is "more about the race" anyway in most years as the year goes on, obviously that years results become more and more important in your ranking until the end of the year where the ranking is exactly the same as the race.

I think because he did so poorly in 2018 first half and rose so quickly in the 2nd half of the year, that gives him extra time at number 1 in 2019 first half than other combinations. Only if he would have been 1 in early 2018 and wasn't, does it balance out. If he would have done better in 2018 1st half but not been 1, say if he was 2nd or 3rd, then I do really think in terms of his chances for time at 1 in the futuer (early 2019) doing so poorly in early 2018 oddly helped.

We probably agree about 90% here, but I'm not ready to go that extra 10%, if you will.
I do agree that his poor first half of 2016 could allow him an easier path to stay at the top in 2019, (which will be offset by his hard-to-duplicate second half).

Now, in terms of Djokovic possibly catching Fed for most weeks at #1: If he were within 25 or so, then it would help. Being 80-plus behind, it really doesn't. (In truth, I hope he makes it...and I also respect Fed enough to think it's still possible that he has a huge fall and captures #1 for 2018....not likely, but...)

 

[The Fedfather]

It's too hard to define "primes" (it's debated here all the time, and mostly in self-serving ways), so I think one has to look at the whole record. In my opinion, but relying on results to inform it, Fed and Djokovic were both terrific on clay, and obviously both eclipsed by Rafa there. Looking at the numbers, they have performed similarly at Roland Garros, although Novak gave Rafa greater battles at RG, and also has the one win versus Rafa head-to-head. Looking closer at the clay numbers, Novak's winning percentage is better than Roger's and he also won more titles there. His head2head v. Rafa on clay is also better. So, I don't consider Roger to be quite the equal of Novak on clay.

This is reasonable but wouldn't you say that the difference in achievements mainly comes down to Djokovic being better on clay specifically against Nadal?

And the win at RG isn't that telling because Nadal's performance was not comparable to his usual excellence on clay.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

We probably agree about 90% here, but I'm not ready to go that extra 10%, if you will.
I do agree that his poor first half of 2016 could allow him an easier path to stay at the top in 2019, (which will be offset by his hard-to-duplicate second half).

Now, in terms of Djokovic possibly catching Fed for most weeks at #1: If he were within 25 or so, then it would help. Being 80-plus behind, it really doesn't. (In truth, I hope he makes it...and I also respect Fed enough to think it's still possible that he has a huge fall and captures #1 for 2018....not likely, but...)

I've though about it some more and I think you are 100 percent correct lol. Good job

 

[Sport]

Focusing on this secondary record will hurt his chances for the real reward the Slam record.
Trying to win every Masters 1000 event is one of the main reasons why he is behind Federer and that easy draw vulture Nadal in the slam count.
Both are very close to retiring anyway seeing their recent forms so Nole should focus on winning as many slams as possible and not worry about winning every 1000+ event to maintain number 1 ranking.

Haha another Nadal hater. "Easy draw vulture Nadal"? Lol if I were a Djokovic fan I would shut up after the cakewalk of the USO 2018. Djokovic only had to face one though player (Del Potro). And he vultured his only Roland Garros when Nadal withdrawed injured.

 

[CYGS]

Haha another Nadal hater. "Easy draw vulture Nadal"? Lol if I were a Djokovic fan I would shut up after the cakewalk of the USO 2018. Djokovic only had to face one though player (Del Potro). And he vultured his only Roland Garros when Nadal withdrawed injured.

He's a Fed fan.

 

[tennisaddict]

That's fine , well it's my personal opinion that one can be a fan of whoever they want for whatever reason. And I would certainly expect style to be a part of that.

But I think if one is being fair, greatness has to be about the results. They are playing the sport to win.

While that opinion has merits I have seen in other sports , players with higher achievement regarded lesser than the ones with slightly lesser achievement but more eye catching talent

 

[KINGROGER]

Quite the opposite.

Fed fans have pointed out a million times that Nadal and Djokovic are 5 and 6 years younger respectively.

Now I'd have to look up who's 5 and 6 years younger than those 2, but really, Raonic, Nishikori, Dimitrov and Goffin have long proven to never get near the #1 spot and will likely be out the door before Djokovic and Nadal.

Only Murray and Nadal have been ranked above Federer at 36+

Who the hell is gonna stop Djokovic at 34?

Says it all when the biggest threats to Nadal and Djokovic are ancient fossil Federer and 30 year old Del Potro LOL

Unless Zverev can drastically improve in the next year or so. It happened for Fed I supppse in 2003.

 

[tennisaddict]

Style is subjective though. You say Federer and Rafa are more art. (I don't understand this with Rafa but I will leave it for now.) Then you say Djokovic is more science but I love science. I love art a whole lot as well, but I chose science over art as far as what to do with my life. So since Djokovic is more science, maybe that's why I like his style more. It doesn't make me anymore right than you though, and has no relation to which is greater as far as effectiveness.

Yes, it is a matter of preference

Djoker hits consistently clean shots of both wings.

Fed’s ground strokes breaks down more but I prefer his variety and his constant desire to have the match play on his terms

 

[KINGROGER]

Yes, it is a matter of preference

Djoker hits consistently clean shots of both wings.

Fed’s ground strokes breaks down more but I prefer his variety and his constant desire to have the match play on his terms

Yeah this. Djokovic is more consistent off both sides. Federer is more explosive and powerful with a bigger weapon (FH).

 

[Djokodalerer31]

If he can surpass Sampras - then he can surpass Federer! Its not like there were gigantic 75 weeks gap between him and Federer! Its only 24 weeks (which might seem like a lot, but in reality its only half of the season...)

 

[Sport]

He will likely get this record but all that matters is 21 majors and he would fall short by a good number there. RAfa is likely to end up second as I don’t see Djoker adding 4 more at this point

Djokovic only needs 20 Slams to be universally considered the GOAT. The H2H would be a huge tie-breaker.

 

[Username_]

He will unless he hired Pepe again

 

[tennisaddict]

Djokovic only needs 20 Slams to be universally considered the GOAT. The H2H would be a huge tie-breaker.

It does not work that way. You can always find in rankings the person who reached the milestone first to be listed ahead.

Also , like we have mentioned several times in the past, setting target is way more difficult than reaching one.

 

[KINGROGER]

Djokovic only needs 20 Slams to be universally considered the GOAT. The H2H would be a huge tie-breaker.

Not with Federer. Their H2H is relatively even. We would have to look at YEC and time at number 1.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

His consistency towards his two main rivals in his career proves something else.

His H2H against Djokovic actually builds a case for Federer over Nadal. When you think about it, Federer has given Djokovic tougher battles consistently over all surfaces. Nadal has mainly done so on HC and clay with one meeting coming on grass in recent years. And Federer has stayed closer to Djokovic in the H2H as well. Not to mention Federer was 33-34 for a few of these meetings too and won a couple showing he is able to at least give peak Djokovic battles when he is past his best.

A 22-24 H2H is actually very close you know. Nothing to cry about considering the age difference anyway. And that's not me saying Federer was old in 2011 or something. That is me saying Federer has done well to keep the H2H close considering the 6 year age gap and the fact Djokovic shows peak play that is equal to what Federer produced during his best years.

I am aware Djokovic has a 27-25 H2H against Nadal, but they are very close in age. Federer is not.

Slams matters, not how many qf reached in a row or whatever.

And Federer has the most major wins and the most QF reached in a row. I mean, if that doesn't matter, I guess 4 in a row doesn't matter. I also guess other things Nadal has done don't matter.

It matters. It helps build a unique case for Federer over "his two main rivals" and it's based entirely on consistency.

Time will show what will happen

Sure will. I'm not a betting man but I'd be surprised if Djokovic was playing the same way in 2 years. Look at his career. He's always had ups and downs and his downs have certainly been lower as of late.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

His H2H against Djokovic actually builds a case for Federer over Nadal. When you think about it, Federer has given Djokovic tougher battles consistently over all surfaces. Nadal has mainly done so on HC and clay with one meeting coming on grass in recent years. And Federer has stayed closer to Djokovic in the H2H as well. Not to mention Federer was 33-34 for a few of these meetings too and won a couple showing he is able to at least give peak Djokovic battles when he is past his best.

A 22-24 H2H is actually very close you know. Nothing to cry about considering the age difference anyway. And that's not me saying Federer was old in 2011 or something. That is me saying Federer has done well to keep the H2H close considering the 6 year age gap and the fact Djokovic shows peak play that is equal to what Federer produced during his best years.

I am aware Djokovic has a 27-25 H2H against Nadal, but they are very close in age. Federer is not.


And Federer has the most major wins and the most QF reached in a row. I mean, if that doesn't matter, I guess 4 in a row doesn't matter. I also guess other things Nadal has done don't matter.

It matters. It helps build a unique case for Federer over "his two main rivals" and it's based entirely on consistency.


Sure will. I'm not a betting man but I'd be surprised if Djokovic was playing the same way in 2 years. Look at his career. He's always had ups and downs and his downs have certainly been lower as of late.

Thank you for your well written reply!!

I have a lot to say and I dont agree with your logic here at all.

Just right now I have a hard time really caring for these players and defending them. Hopefully Ill get my irrational fan behaviour back tomorrow morning after a good sleep. Good night!

 

[-NN-]

Fine. Let's fasten our seatbelts for this denouement of an epoch and then rage forevermore afterwards over its epitaph.

I. Am. Ready.

 

[Ann]

I like Djokovic, he's not one of my favs but I think he's a great tennis player and decent human being.

I like many of his fans here but I'd like all things listed so much more if we could keep the DJOKOVIC GOAT threads to just one or two a day.

 

[Druss]

I think 60 weeks is the absolute maximum Djoker could add to No1.

The likes of Tsitsipas, Zverev, Kachanov and a couple others will have something to say about it.

 

[TripleATeam]

I like Djokovic, he's not one of my favs but I think he's a great tennis player and decent human being.

I like many of his fans here but I'd like all things listed so much more if we could keep the DJOKOVIC GOAT threads to just one or two a day.

This is a unique form of GOAT thread. It's more a 2019 checklist of things Djokovic needs if he wants to be GOAT. I find that at least slightly redeeming, no?

 

[GabeT]

This is a unique form of GOAT thread. It's more a 2019 checklist of things Djokovic needs if he wants to be GOAT. I find that at least slightly redeeming, no?

Yeah, this thread is not meant as a GOAT thread at all.

 

[Ann]

This is a unique form of GOAT thread. It's more a 2019 checklist of things Djokovic needs if he wants to be GOAT. I find that at least slightly redeeming, no?

So it's a unique GOAT thread about him becoming GOAT so it's not a GOAT thread.

 

[GabeT]

So it's a unique GOAT thread about him becoming GOAT so it's not a GOAT thread.

Not a GOAT thread. Unless every thread about any accomplishment of the big 3 is a GOAT thread.

 

[Ann]

Not a GOAT thread. Unless every thread about any accomplishment of the big 3 is a GOAT thread.

Even when it's a unique GOAT thread about what it takes for him to become GOAT as a Djokovic fan just enlightened me...

And it isn't that there are GOAT threads or "accomplishment" threads but could you space them out a wee bit so there aren't 5 a day? And that was ALL my original post was about, so really not up for a huge discussion. Have a nice night.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Even when it's a unique GOAT thread about what it takes for him to become GOAT as a Djokovic fan just enlightened me...

And it isn't that there are GOAT threads or "accomplishment" threads but could you space them out a wee bit so there aren't 5 a day? And that was ALL my original post was about, so really not up for a huge discussion. Have a nice night.

You too. Make sure to take your metamucil before bed.

 

[duaneeo]

Less than 40.

 

[TripleATeam]

So it's a unique GOAT thread about him becoming GOAT so it's not a GOAT thread.

Never said that. I don't care about what it is, and given your reply to @GabeT, you don't seem to care either. You don't want these kinds of threads, but all I tried to say is this "checklist" idea hasn't ever been done as far as I can tell. I think it's an interesting spin - admitting Novak isn't GOAT yet, but saying what needs to happen moving forward if he wants to claim that title.

I hope I haven't annoyed you too much by bringing this up again after you told @GabeT good night, but I just wanted to respond. Feel free to disagree if you want, but I think it's different enough from a typical GOAT thread to warrant some immunity from GOAT-thread-itis.

 

[GabeT]

By my count if Nole remains #1 until the end of September he passes both Lendl and Connors at weeks as #1. Can he do it?

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

By my count if Nole remains #1 until the end of September he passes both Lendl and Connors at weeks as #1. Can he do it?

That seems very likely. He still has the Sunshine Double and clay season where he can gain further points. If he does well there and he will have less pressure at Wimbledon and Cincy...

It's Sampras and of course Federer that are much tougher targets.

 

[TripleATeam]

By my count if Nole remains #1 until the end of September he passes both Lendl and Connors at weeks as #1. Can he do it?

This means all the points after the US Open until now are maintained.

Novak: 2000 (AO) + 1000 (Shanghai) + 1600 (WTF RU, Paris RU) = 4600 points by then.

Other notable people:
Nadal: 1200
Federer: 1620
Zverev: 2020

I think everyone else has less than 1000 points over those 3 tournaments. This means Novak has a 2500 point buffer between him and the next player - Zverev. Djokovic seems set to be relatively consistent this year, so barring injury, he should be #1 by then easily. He's already got half the points he needs, and has 7 masters and 3 GS tournaments to make up the other 4500.

That means a SF average until September will let him surpass Connors and Lendl. Seems simple enough.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

If Djokovic get into third place this year, it would be an incredible achievement. That and getting that sixth year end number one would be amazing for his 2019 goals.

 

[Phoenix1983]

If Djokovic get into third place this year, it would be an incredible achievement. That and getting that sixth year end number one would be amazing for his 2019 goals.

He’s likely to achieve both of these goals, sadly.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

He’s likely to achieve both of these goals, sadly.

Good times ahead then.

 

[TheAssassin]

It's simple now.

If he makes it past the US Open uninterrupted, he will pass Connors and Lendl.

If he makes it to the next Australian Open uninterrupted, he will pass Pete.

If he makes it past 2020 Wimbledon uninterrupted, the record will be his.

I would bet on the first two happening, the third is too far to tell.

 

[Pheasant]

Quite honestly, Djoker deserves to be in the top 2 in this metric. The guy went to 14 consecutive slam semis, has won 5 WTF, and he went to an amazing 28 straight slam semis. Djoker has been extremely consistent. That means that even at his very worst, he still made it to the final 8 of a slam for 7 years straight and final 4 of slam for 3 1/2 years straight. That seems impossible, especially when looking at guys like Raonic, Dimitrov, Zverev, Nishi, and a bunch of other younger players. Djokovic at his peak has been routinely excellent. And now, he's completely breaking the mold for old players. And mold-breakers eventually become record-breakers.

I guess if Federer has to be passed, then it might as well be done by an incredible perfectionist like Djoker.

In the end, it looks like Djoker will have the career records and Federer will have the streak records. But I will never rule out Nadal, the ultimate battler. I think that Fed now realizes that he'll need another miracle to hold off Nadal and Djoker.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Quite honestly, Djoker deserves to be in the top 2 in this metric. The guy went to 14 consecutive slam semis, has won 5 WTF, and he went to an amazing 28 straight slam semis. Djoker has been extremely consistent. That means that even at his very worst, he still made it to the final 8 of a slam for 7 years straight and final 4 of slam for 3 1/2 years straight. That seems impossible, especially when looking at guys like Raonic, Dimitrov, Zverev, Nishi, and a bunch of other younger players. Djokovic at his peak has been routinely excellent. And now, he's completely breaking the mold for old players. And mold-breakers eventually become record-breakers.

I guess if Federer has to be passed, then it might as well be done by an incredible perfectionist like Djoker.

In the end, it looks like Djoker will have the career records and Federer will have the streak records. But I will never rule out Nadal, the ultimate battler. I think that Fed now realizes that he'll need another miracle to hold off Nadal and Djoker.

Well said. Djokovic's all round consistency has been remarkable, considering the footsteps of Federer before him. To even come close to those numbers Federer put together is outstanding in itself...to one day potentially surpass it...beyond words.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Good times ahead then.

For whom? Novak Djokovic fans?

Certainly not for tennis, if such an individual holds many of the sport’s major records.

 

[tennisfan2015]

For whom? Novak Djokovic fans?

Certainly not for tennis, if such an individual holds many of the sport’s major records.

Did you care about the sport in 2004-2007?

 

[TheAssassin]

For whom? Novak Djokovic fans?

Certainly not for tennis, if such an individual holds many of the sport’s major records.

One of the most stunning tennis players and athletes in general holding major records. The horror.

 

[itrium84]

For whom? Novak Djokovic fans?

Certainly not for tennis, if such an individual holds many of the sport’s major records.

Gaining weeks no1 record was pretty good for tennis when Fed was doing it, right?

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Djokodalerer31]

For whom? Novak Djokovic fans?

Certainly not for tennis, if such an individual holds many of the sport’s major records.

According to this logic, its no good for tennis, when Federer holds many of sport's major records...LOL

 

[Pheasant]

Enough of the excuses. I do believe that age matters. However, Djoker is breaking the mold for aging and he will deserve the records he gets if he breaks them. If he ages like everybody else, then he won't break the record. Either way, the record holder will deserve it.

But what about this? Is Djoker really human? Look at this video(especially the very beginning). He looks like a cyborg made out of rubber. I don't think that Djoker is human. He doesn't contain blood, sweat, or any human DNA. No human has ever done this before.

And lastly, here's Djoker playing baseball before his tennis days. This is before he realized that being a lightweight flexible gazelle was so important for the sport of tennis.

 

[Lew II]

One impressive feat by Djokovic is the number of ATP points in the last seasons:

2011: 13,360
2012: 12,920
2013: 12,260
2014: 11,360
2015: 16,585
2016: 11,780
2017: 2,585
2018: 9,045
last 52 weeks: 10,955

It took two outstanding seasons by Nadal and Murray to take year-end no.1 from him in 2013 and 2016.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Did you care about the sport in 2004-2007?

I’ve cared about the sport since 1996 when I started watching it.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Gaining weeks no1 record was pretty good for tennis when Fed was doing it, right?

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

Federer is a more worthy individual than Novak Djokovic.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

Federer is a more worthy individual than Novak Djokovic.

Who are you to judge who is worthy and who isn't?

 

[tennisfan2015]

I’ve cared about the sport since 1996 when I started watching it.

Surely then you've suffered dearly during the mentioned period?! No?

 

[tennisfan2015]

Federer is a more worthy individual than Novak Djokovic.

Said the philosopher Phoenix!

 

[Phoenix1983]

Surely then you've suffered dearly during the mentioned period?! No?

What do you mean?

 

[tennisfan2015]

What do you mean?

Well, what do you mean, what do I mean? I mean what I said I mean. Isn't it obvious to a philosopher such as yourself??