How would you compare Cream / HDX to Cream / Velocity? Have you tried HDX or Velocity in the mains with Cream?
Origin/Velocity
- Thread starter ByeByePoly
- Start date
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Me to
, I keep hoping someone will try it and post. I really like Cream, but my post TE elbow/forearm keeps saying no to even "a little" poly. Cream and HDX are both comfortable, but my arm still prefers velocity, origin. I have decided not to fight it.But my guess is origin/cream and hdx/cream would play great.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I haven't played Reflex ... there was no need after first set of $10 Velocity. I think @scotus played both.
I don't get the impression v has a strong coating, just slick. It notches at an even rate, and doesn't fray.
Velocity, if memory serves right, is a bit slicker and offers a bit more spin.
Reflex is a bit more comfortable and gives you a better feel for shots. It reminded me of Babolat Xcel, and judging by the price point, I think Head designed it as a competition for Xcel.
Multis don't last long, so I can't really compare which coating lasts longer.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
No, but @g4driver has played both, and loves cream/hdx
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...echnifibre-hdx-tour-gut-poly-emoji848.608107/
I have played (natural and 16g unless stated):
in order ... pretty much:
fb bab vs @55
fb cream 1.28 @50
fb origin red @55
tonic/cream 1.28 @55/50
fb velocity @55 and @52
velocity/cream @52/50 and @55/50
velocity 16 natural/velocity 17 black @?
fb hdx @55
hdx/velocity @55/52
origin/velocity @55/52
Edit: Forgot isospeed baseline 16 poly in there somewhere
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g4driver
Legend
I only used Cream in the mains, never as a cross.
I think the best deal is reel of Velocity using what you need for the crosses (for my frames I only need 16.5 feet for the crosses).
I only can't tell enough of difference between HDX Tour and Head Velocity to honestly nickpick. I do like that HDX Tour comes in a 1.35mm gauge while Velocity only comes in 1.30mm for now. Velocity is cheaper by the pack and even cheaper by the reel. If 1.30mm works for you, that makes Velocity the winner. But for some players they need 1.35 or even 1.40 mm multis to get 2-3 weeks before snapping the multi crosses.
I string a 16x18 Prince Warrior Textreme 100 for a very good 4.5C USTA with 1.28mm Cream Mains and 1.40mm Prince Premiere Control. Sometimes he breaks the Cream Mains, other days he breaks the 1.40mm Crosses. But he always breaks his strings in about 2 to 3 weeks. He loves the Cream 1.28mm / PPC 1.40mm setup as he would snap 1.30mm Velocity in much less time.
If you aren't a frequent string breaker, by all means try the Cream in Crosses, but frequent stringer breakers tend to get a longer shelf life with Cream mains and multi crosses.
For me personally, I am sold on Volkl Cyclone Tour 1.30mm -- this string just works well for me and several 4.0 / 4.5 guys who don't like stuff polys. I use Cyclone Tour 1.30mm for more 4.0/4.5 men than any other string. Just don't use 1.25mm CT as it is awful due to poor tension maintenance.
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I never asked, but why the cream/hdx rather than fb cream 1.28? I understand when the goal is to make a stiffer poly more arm friendly with poly/multi hybrid, but Cream is already only partial poly like hdx tour is. To my arm, Cream and HDX was in the same comfort ball park.
g4driver
Legend
I had been play-testing another stiffer 1.30mm poly main with Head Hawk 1.25mm that started to bother my arm so i was trying to give my elbow a break by using Cream / HDX Tour rather than just go back to Cyclone Tour.
My understanding of Cream is 100% co-polymer Monofilament just like most co-polys including Head Hawk, Hawk Touch, Volvo Cyclone & Cyclone Tour, Solinco Revolution, and Hyper G (all strings I string on a regular basis )
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/ISOSPEED_Cream_16L_String_128/descpageACISO-ISOCREAM17.html
Composition: Co-polymer Monofilament
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I used to break strings a lot, but now I’m playing more serve and volley doubles and that is way healthier to stringbeds than baseline ball bashing singles.
My Origin/velocity setup lasts a good while in that setting.
What I’d like to find is a slippery cross for Origin that is comfy and holds up to clay courts. I keep wondering about something like Origin/cream but I’m still scared of poly.
My Origin/velocity setup lasts a good while in that setting.
What I’d like to find is a slippery cross for Origin that is comfy and holds up to clay courts. I keep wondering about something like Origin/cream but I’m still scared of poly.
g4driver
Legend
This 4.5 guy (Paul Carmola) is not baseline basher. Former DIV 2 player with great hands. This guy plays doubles exclusively and is st the net as quickly as he can get there. In two years of USTA Matches, he hasn't played singles once. Look At his USTA records for 2017 and 2018. Solid player.
Origin/ Head FXP
Head FXP Is the slickest multi I have ever discovered. Been stringing for 10 years. Have strung a dozen different multis.
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I had been play-testing another stiffer 1.30mm poly main with Head Hawk 1.25mm that started to bother my arm so i was trying to give my elbow a break by using Cream / HDX Tour rather than just go back to Cyclone Tour.
My understanding of Cream is 100% co-polymer Monofilament just like most co-polys including Head Hawk, Hawk Touch, Volvo Cyclone & Cyclone Tour, Solinco Revolution, and Hyper G (all strings I string on a regular basis )
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/ISOSPEED_Cream_16L_String_128/descpageACISO-ISOCREAM17.html
Composition: Co-polymer Monofilament
The understanding from discussion here was that Cream was not 100% co-poly.
Autonomix told 20% by Isospeed:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/isospeed-cream.565519/#post-10386308
Co-poly told no more than 40% from Isospeed:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/isospeed-cream.565519/page-2#post-10455828
From Isospeed website:
Cream is an all-rounder: a string featuring sensational ball control, optimal arm protection and excellent playing properties. Isospeed has developed a unique material composition that drastically increases the elasticity of this monofile string. This ensures minimal loss of tension for a strong game and less pressure on the joints as well as outstanding fitting properties. At the same time, you maintain optimal speed, control and precision.
-
- Gauge: 1,28 mm; 1,23mm
- Length: 12m / 200m
- Color: cream
-
- Monofilic polyester / Monofilic elastomer
g4driver
Legend
The understanding from discussion here was that Cream was not 100% co-poly.
Autonomix told 20% by Isospeed:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/isospeed-cream.565519/#post-10386308
Co-poly told no more than 40% from Isospeed:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/isospeed-cream.565519/page-2#post-10455828
From Isospeed website:
Cream is an all-rounder: a string featuring sensational ball control, optimal arm protection and excellent playing properties. Isospeed has developed a unique material composition that drastically increases the elasticity of this monofile string. This ensures minimal loss of tension for a strong game and less pressure on the joints as well as outstanding fitting properties. At the same time, you maintain optimal speed, control and precision.
- Gauge: 1,28 mm; 1,23mm
- Length: 12m / 200m
- Color: cream
- Monofilic polyester / Monofilic elastomer
So Tenniswarehouse's posted info is incorrect.
So what is monolific elastomer exactly ? It isn't a multi filament and seems to be more like rubber.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastomer
Thanks I had not seen those threads or posts. I just use it for guys who have arm issues and break strings frequently. The 4.5 I mentioned loves the Cream 1.28 / PPC 1.40mm setup (1.40mm. PPC is no longer made) so I hope Head will make Velocity in a 1.35mm reel if this string continues with strong sales results.
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Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
May have to look into that and see how it compares to V and RIP. My string supplier carries most HEAD strings so I should be able to add a couple sets with my next order.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
At 16 hours ... tension still having gradual drop. Now at 46 from 52 DT. It looked like it had settled at 48.
Served a basket of balls, and really liked what I saw on kicker. I haven't been serving much for several months, so taking it easy ... but even on 2/3 kicker ... ball jumped up nicely.
Served a basket of balls, and really liked what I saw on kicker. I haven't been serving much for several months, so taking it easy ... but even on 2/3 kicker ... ball jumped up nicely.
g4driver
Legend
I use quite a few Head Strings for clients and think HEAD FXP is an incredible string for the price..especially as a slick cross.
One 4.5 buddy has a 12 year old daughter and I use Red Origin 1.30mm / Head FXP 1.30mm for her in her Pure Drives. She is now breaking the Origin around the 3 week point and OrigIn ain't cheap even by the reel. The Dad is "thirty " [emoji28] so he has to make some choices.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
"So what is monolific elastomer exactly ? "
Good question ... calling @esgee48 . It's so cool to have a ttw member bat phone.
We are at the mercy of what Isospeed told two members, and the story doesn't match. It's hard for me to compare cream to ... say hdx because I played fb cream in spring 2017. FB hdx recently. In Spring 2017, was just starting to play matches again post TE. I was about to make fb cream my 2017 string, but felt a elbow twinge at the 6 hour mark. I think it is a great string in the middle between co-poly and multi. My elbow told me to move a couple more clicks toward multi.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I have no problem with Origin's price. I love it's tension maintenance and comfort and that's worth the extra couple dollars. But it's better in a hybrid with slick crosses. V works great on hard courts, but the coating goes on clay a bit too fast for my liking.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I know one thing, I would have saved a lot of $ if I had only played with o/v rather than test that list of strings above.
Even worse, when you catch the string experimentation bug, you will cut a string out early so you can test the next one.Still cheaper than golf.
If $30 o/v broke right now ... $2 per ball machine hour .... < 1 cent per hit.
Thanks for the info. I also have sensitive arm / shoulder issues. Even if I use NG mains, a stiffer cross will cause forearm tightness. Was trying Wilson NG / Cream in my Angell K7 and it was a rocket launcher even at higher tensions. Velocity / Cream certainly has a crisp feel. Maybe I'll try Cream / Velocity as G4Driver mentioned. I may then try Origin / Velocity.
I need to get this string dilemma sorted out as the USTA season is starting!
Thank you for the response! I am not a frequent string breaker with a sensitive arm. More of a touch player than a big hitter. I play in several leagues at 4.5 to 5.0 with an Angell K7 (very soft feeling frame). If you have strung for people like me, what string combos do you typically recommend?
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Probably because my "sensitive arm" costs me 8 months off from tennis matches ... I punt on the first sign a string causes even forearm tightness. On that frony, FB Velocity and Origin/V pass with flying colors.
Sorry if you answered above, or elsewhere ... but did you play fb Velocity 16g natural yet? Part of all my experimenting is I enjoy it, and why not while relegated to ball machine recovering from hamstring injury? That said, if I was just picking a string I would win most with in matches, it would be fb velocity or fb cream (2nd one solely based on 6 hours in spring 2017). I can't honestly say any from that list beat fb velocity as far as my level of play. When the origin/v breaks, I am going to string fb v @54 while origin/v is fresh on my mind. I think I get more power from o/v than fb v ... and it's controllable, so that has been fun with ball machine. Also enjoying the feel/thunk of o/v ... muted v isn't for everyone.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
How much spin? If you are pretty flat, and don't break strings, fb origin is a great feeling string. I have never played x-1, but it sure is popular.
What strings have you liked, and what tension?
g4driver
Legend
PigPen I sent you a private message since I couldn't paste my reply here.
Hope it helps
I would suggest trying the Cream 1.28 mm / Velocity 1.30 mm crosses first.
If you break the 1.30mm crosses too quickly, I would suggest buying one pack of HDX Tour 1.30mm for your crosses and trying it.
Finally, if you break the HDX Tour 1.30mm crosses too quickly.
You might try 1.30mm or 1.35mm Babolat Tonic Natural Gut and Cream 1.28 crosses
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How does the tonic play compared to Wilson NG?
Don't hit with that much spin despite having a semi-western forehand. Old school 1 handed backhand. 55 years old.
When I was playing with a Angell TC95 (which is stiffer feeling than my current Angell K7), I was playing with Wilson NG / Yonex PTP or MSV co-focus. Played well until the poly got too loose. Then the frame was a rocket launcher. The gut feels too soft in the K7. fb Hyper - G at a low tension, also felt too soft. I was thinking of trying the Babolat gut as it is supposed to be stiffer and less powerful than the Wilson. Origin may be an option as well.
The other combo that I was curious about is Cream / Velocity. I enjoyed Velocity / Cream.
I should have started the experiment well before the USTA season. Oh well.
g4driver
Legend
For the price it is great. I am all about "value" when it comes to strings. I buy polys in reels, but like the new Lux Gut now that the "old school" / "made in France " Wilson Gut is no longer made by Babolat.
The Wilson Natural Gut made by France had an MSRP price of $55 a pack but it could be found for much cheaper until Babolat stopped making it.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Oh ... to be 55 again.
I have only played with vs and tonic gut. I actually don't love gut, but you might be better off sticking with your gut/yptp until after USTA. There is no equal replacement for gut. Perhaps just up your gut tension a couple of lbs. Another smaller change might be gut/cream ... @TenFanLA played both vs/yptp and vs/cream ... preferred vs/yptp for spin and control, vs/cream more comfortable. Maybe he could chime in about power level.
Changing strings, particularly to hybrids, with tension guessing is a fricken rabbit hole. You might get lucky and nail it down about the time USTA is over.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
If full bed Hyper G feels too soft, then Babolat Gut/poly will most likely be too soft as well.Oh ... to be 55 again.
I have only played with vs and tonic gut. I actually don't love gut, but you might be better off sticking with your gut/yptp until after USTA. There is no equal replacement for gut. Perhaps just up your gut tension a couple of lbs. Another smaller change might be gut/cream ... @TenFanLA played both vs/yptp and vs/cream ... preferred vs/yptp for spin and control, vs/cream more comfortable. Maybe he could chime in about power level.
Changing strings, particularly to hybrids, with tension guessing is a fricken rabbit hole. You might get lucky and nail it down about the time USTA is over.
If you want to stick with gut mains, I would try Tonic Longevity which is very thick and 4G cross which has very good control and tension maintenance.
4G is stiff though.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
4G sucks based on hitting my friend's Ultra for 1 minute.
Pigpen has a sore arm already. I know ... not nice after calling you on the ttw bat phone. Sorry.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Then I would go with Gut/Cream as Cream is about the only soft poly that maintains tension well. Other soft polys tend to lose tension much faster and become too powerful.4G sucks based on hitting my friend's Ultra for 1 minute.
I know ... not nice after calling you on the ttw bat phone. Sorry.
I think 4g would be too still. Also tried Max Power crosses with gut. Felt forearm tightness immediately. Had to cut it out.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Based on tw review, Cream much more powerful then yptp. Is that what you found? Probably harder to gauge with only a cross.
If Pigpen liked yptp @50 ... what would be an equal power tension for Cream?
Also ... What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Have you considered gut/velocity? Should be good for arm, tame the gut ... and big spin isn't your thing anyway. If I ever tried gut again I have decided that would be my first test since I'm done with poly. @scotus liked it pretty good fore his sore elbow ... just not poly spin. Don't ask @TenFanLA about that one though ... you will get cussing about wasting a half set of vs. Then again ... he is a spin monster ... and a little fussy.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Yeah, both 4G and Max Power gave me arm pain also.
I would not use them again.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Cream is more powerful than yptp. However the launching problem @PigPen and I have are not when gut/poly is relatively fresh but after it loses tension.
Since Cream retains tension well, there should be less drastic difference.
I prefer gut/yptp due to its control, spin and feel.
I would go up a few lbs with Cream.
Perhaps I can try Cream a little tighter. Thanks.
Why did you switch from tonic / cream? Price?
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Mainly because I had more control with fb Velocity. I started to play singles again last spring after months off from TE. I had both V1 Pros in the bag ... both freshly strung ... one tonic/cream 55/50 ... and the other fb velocity 55. I intended to play the tonic/cream all summer... just spent $55 on it. I wasn't playing that good ... eratic ... which was expected from so much time off. At some point I pulled out the velocity racquet which I figured I would use for ball machine sessions (cheaper, and I hit at a park than can have some water/seepage ... don't want to worry about strings). Instantly had control, and that became my match string for all of last year.
I get more topspin with tonic/cream ... but less control. Also ... don't love vs or tonic (only gut I have played), my stringer charges $25 for gut stringing vs $15 ... so paying the premium isn't worth it. I do see why guys who want max spin but not full poly play gut/poly. You can pretty much match full poly spin in an arm friendly setup. I have had friends say "that's different, your ball is really dipping" when I would pull the tonic/cream back out.
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
@PigPen I’m one of those that would not recommend gut/Cream. I’m a 4.5 singles player, and I have been experimenting hoping to find a nice arm-friendly hybrid with excellent tension maintenance. The problem was both times I strung up Tonic/Cream the Cream crosses broke within 5-6 hours!
This is the only time (or two times I suppose) that I have ever broken cross strings in a gut/poly hybrid in the 2-3 years since I started using gut/poly. The gut mains always break first but usually not until after at least 12-15 hours, often more. I guess the issue is Cream is not 100% a poly string. I really thought it was a fluke the first time it happened, but then it happened again. I’ve also read here of others who have had Cream crosses break surprising quickly. For the record, I was using the thicker 1.28 Cream as well.
If you can live with the cross tension dropping well before the gut mains, I’ve found Tonic/Revolve to be an excellent arm-friendly and spin-friendly setup. It plays softer than Max Power or Head Hawk in the crosses. It does lose some control after 10+ hours, but I am one of those crazy people that mounts my racquet and restrings the crosses (only on my persona racquets). I’m too frugal to cut out natural gut because the poly has died.
Disclaimer: Obviously your results may be different with Cream. Everyone has different swing mechanics, so it’s very possible mine are just ill-suited for Cream in the crosses.
This is the only time (or two times I suppose) that I have ever broken cross strings in a gut/poly hybrid in the 2-3 years since I started using gut/poly. The gut mains always break first but usually not until after at least 12-15 hours, often more. I guess the issue is Cream is not 100% a poly string. I really thought it was a fluke the first time it happened, but then it happened again. I’ve also read here of others who have had Cream crosses break surprising quickly. For the record, I was using the thicker 1.28 Cream as well.
If you can live with the cross tension dropping well before the gut mains, I’ve found Tonic/Revolve to be an excellent arm-friendly and spin-friendly setup. It plays softer than Max Power or Head Hawk in the crosses. It does lose some control after 10+ hours, but I am one of those crazy people that mounts my racquet and restrings the crosses (only on my persona racquets). I’m too frugal to cut out natural gut because the poly has died.
Disclaimer: Obviously your results may be different with Cream. Everyone has different swing mechanics, so it’s very possible mine are just ill-suited for Cream in the crosses.
g4driver
Legend
No-- I am a Cyclone Tour 1.30mm for the most part now going into my 5th year. I have one PA strung with with Wilson Natural Gut (the "made in France" version / Head Hawk 1.25mm.
My other two frames have Cyclone Tour.. when hitting practice matches or hitting on a ball machine, I often use the frame with gut/hawk.
The Cyclone Tour provides more spin, but I love how gut / hawk feels.
g4driver
Legend
Just a suggestion since you are strong 4.5 singles player who snaps strings pretty easily:
Try Gut / Head Hawk 1.30mm crosses.
I have 1.25mm reels of Alu Power, Yonex Poly Tour Pro, Head Hawk and Hawk Touch, Cream 1.28mm and 1.30mm Head Hawk...all smooth polys.
I use Hawk Hawk 1.25mm in my frames with gut/poly, but based on your post above, i would suggest you try 1.30 Hawk. FYI: I have had one frame with Gut/ Hawk since 2013. It is easy for me to switch to my frames with poly and it takes me roughly one month to break the 1.30mm Cyclone Tour in my 5th year as a 4.0 who plays both singles and doubles.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
It will be interesting if Diadem Evolution is a $10 Origin.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Dia...tring_Azure_Blue/descpageACDIADEM-DEVO16.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Dia...tring_Azure_Blue/descpageACDIADEM-DEVO16.html
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
I actually tried Tonic/Head Hawk 1.25 based on your recommendation. It’s strung in one of my Ai98’s right now actually. What would I gain in moving to 1.30 Hawk in the crosses that I’m not getting with 1.25? Better tension maintenance?
I prefer the feel of Tonic/Revolve 1.25 to Tonic/Hawk 1.25, for the first 6-8 hours at least. Revolve loses a lot of tension and control suffers eventually. While fresh, Tonic/Revolve feels softer and spinnier than either the Hawk and Max Power crosses I’ve tried.
g4driver
Legend
I forgot to mention I have a reel of 1.25mm Revolve as well. I am not a fan of Revolve personally. It shreds quickly when used with certain shaped polys like Volkl V-Torque. 1.25mm The revolve snapped in the second set.
Head Hawk 1.25mm would last 6-7 sets until I snapped the V-Torque main. The setup is very soft to me, but simply doesn't last. Head Hawk as a very low coefficient of friction as does Revolve but Hawk feels stiffer to me which means it would hold tension longer. 1.3mm Head Hawk will hold tension longer than 1.25mm Hawk Hawk. Everyone has to try and figure out what they prefer. If you don't like 1:25mm Head Hawk, the only other suggestion I would suggest is trying a 1.30mm smooth cross. Perhaps revolve or Head Hawk
I know full polys don't feel like gut / poly but I use various poly/poly hybrids for a few 4.5 men. One 4.5 plays a lot of singles and is a former 5.0. For him I use Hyper G 1.30mm/ Head Hawk 1.25mm. He snaps the Hyper G in his Ai 98s in about 12 hours.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
@18.5 hours (all ball machine)
DT 45.6 ... 52 off stringer. FB Velocity seemed to settle ... Origin continues with small loss. Continues to play good ... at least with ball machine balls.
When I had fb velocity strung @55 ... it settled at 47. FB v strung @52 settled at 45.
DT 45.6 ... 52 off stringer. FB Velocity seemed to settle ... Origin continues with small loss. Continues to play good ... at least with ball machine balls.
When I had fb velocity strung @55 ... it settled at 47. FB v strung @52 settled at 45.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Still pretty good tension maintenance at 18 hrs.
The hard court racket is still holding up beautifully for me but my clay court racket has serious wear on the V crosses. Coating has worn off several strings in the sweetspot. Looks like its days are numbered.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Well got my new Prince 93P back from the stringer and he screwed up with Velocity mains and Origin crosses. So a new hybrid to test out lol.
Frame is fantastic btw. Strings were fine likely because they are still in the slippery stage. We’ll see how it wears over time.
Frame is fantastic btw. Strings were fine likely because they are still in the slippery stage. We’ll see how it wears over time.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
That sucks ... but it will be an interesting test. It would have been even better if it wasn't a new racquet.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Agreed. Hard to compare to Origin/V when it's in a foreign frame.
That being said V/Origin is not a bad combo so far. Played a set with it this am and mens doubles last night and it was getting good depth, pace and spin. Really good feel at the net but I suspect that's the frame. Comfort level is better than FB V but inferior to Origin mains. Still pretty plush though. Arm feels great so far.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
OK getting the Velocity/Origin cut out of my 93P. While it's not a terrible combination, it locks up too quickly compared to Origin/Velocity. And going into the club tourney, I'd rather have the string bed I'm more used to.
