Sampras Says Nadal Challenges Federer's GOAT Claim

Does Nadal's GS H2H have any affect on Fed's goat claim?


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Prolly for good.. He may have been outspoken against some posters. But the guy knows his tennis, he is very logical, and he can back up anything he says with solid facts.


Ive seen worse here from Nadal and Fed fans

You said it. It wasnt like he was just throwing off random junk. He knew what he was talking about and he came up with detailed explanations and reasoning to why he felt the way he did. He was also witty and fun to read, and the people he flamed at most cases deserved it. I hope he comes back.

It sickens me he is banned yet FedFan_2009 or whatever that moron is called is still around.
 
You said it. It wasnt like he was just throwing off random junk. He knew what he was talking about and he came up with detailed explanations and reasoning to why he felt the way he did. He was also witty and fun to read, and the people he flamed at most cases deserved it. I hope he comes back.

It sickens me he is banned yet FedFan_2009 or whatever that moron is called is still around.

*******s can make up a rumour out of nowhere about Nadal being on steriods and get away with it, its a complete joke.
 

GameSampras

Banned
You said it. It wasnt like he was just throwing off random junk. He knew what he was talking about and he came up with detailed explanations and reasoning to why he felt the way he did. He was also witty and fun to read, and the people he flamed at most cases deserved it. I hope he comes back.

It sickens me he is banned yet FedFan_2009 or whatever that moron is called is still around.



I dont get it really. He wasnt spamming or trolling or anything. You could tell he was extremely intelligent. And to be honest... I loved reading the guys posts. One of the most intelligent tennis posters around
 
*******s can make up a rumour out of nowhere about Nadal being on steriods and get away with it, its a complete joke.

Yeah in the real world you can be sued for slander for that sort of thing but in TW planet if you are a ******* you can do no wrong. Just goes to show all the pent up frusteration and sheer hate the *******s have for Nadal who is the only one to inflict any damage on their heroes career and from keeping him from winning 40 slams in a row and never being exposed even slightly in this horrible overall mens field. If you are a fan of another player and call an idiot on the forum an idiot once in awhile you get banned. Like I said they want this place to become Federer Palace. They should put a statue picture of him on the entrance or something.
 
One of the most intelligient posters around? Calling people dumbasses and saying "hohohohehehehihihieh" in every single one of your posts is intelligent now? We must have new standards for intelligence or something. He called anyone that disagreed w/ him a dumbass, particularly the people who believed Fed was GOAT over Sampras. :roll:
 
Yeah in the real world you can be sued for slander for that sort of thing but in TW planet if you are a ******* you can do no wrong. If you are a fan of another player and call an idiot on the forum an idiot once in awhile you get banned. Like I said they want this place to become Federer Palace. They should put a statue picture of him on the entrance or something.

Yep we've seen Fed fanboys insult Nadal and Sampras over and over again and when someone questions Federer they get banned like 380pistol did.
 
I dont get it really. He wasnt spamming or trolling or anything. You could tell he was extremely intelligent. And to be honest... I loved reading the guys posts. One of the most intelligent tennis posters around

I totally agree. You could tell he knew alot about tennis all of the players both today, now, and even before now. The guy knew his stuff, and his reasoning and debateing were always extremely sound and a pleasure to read. I even learnt some new things reading his posts and I am a longtime avid follower of the game. He called a spade a spade, and some posters who skirted the issues or twisted the facts, he called them out on it. I dont see what was wrong with that at all.
 
D

Deleted member 25923

Guest
Are we talking about 380pistol? The guy was also pretty rude to other posters.
 

schap02

Semi-Pro
Very very tough close call here

First and foremost - all the players mentioned in this thread are champions in their own right. I think currently we can dub Federer the GOAT. However, if Nadal gets healthy and continues winning slams - after he wins in the upper teens (17-19) then perhaps we can call him the GOAT - unless Roger continues on a tear and ends up with some outrageous number like 20 or 25...Records are meant to be broken - just a side note here - Tiger Woods believes in himself but his credit was not given until it was 100% earned and he's not the GOAT yet until he has more majors secured than Nicklaus and he'll be the first to tell you that but he ALSO constantly refers to Nicklaus' number of second place and top 10 finishes...that being said, today, RF is the GOAT but he's turning 28 soon and Rafa still has many many more years ahead of him to retain the GOAT label....if he gets healthy - We have to account here that Fed has been able to perform consistently and Rafa is well on his way...

We'll be debating this very topic for the next 4-5 years but I think the next 10-15 major champions will solidify who deserves the label...
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Prolly for good.. He may have been outspoken against some posters. But the guy knows his tennis, he is very logical and intelligent , and he can back up anything he says with solid facts.


Ive seen worse here from Nadal and Fed fans

None of what any of the Petetards say with respect to the weak era claims are backed by "facts". Fact is you cannot speculate on what would have happened if pete played now or fed played earlier without the match-ups actually taking place. your fantasy world match-up claims don't amount to "facts"; its personal opinion at best, and should be left at that.


Fed's h2h with Nadal may prevent some from anointing him GOAT, but even they would be hard-pressed to disagree with the following "fact":

Fact: 15 (with career GS) > 14 without career GS any way you spin it
 

krosero

Legend
I disagree with this part of the post. Agassi might or might not have matched up well with Sampras, but it's not right to say the big servers were worse matchups for sampras than agassi.

Sampras has an excellent record against philipoussis, he is not a bad matchup at all for sampras. Sampras has a so-so record against Krajicek. Overall, once you abstract from any single big server matchup because small samples are always problematic, sampras did very well against the whole set of big servers (krajicek, phillipoussis, Ivanisevic, Rusedski, Becker). Sampras has a 44-22 record against this entire group.

In contrast, sampras has a 20-14 record against agassi. Even if you subset just to the GS, agassi does no worse than the big servers. This tells us that Agassi was the more dangerous opponent to sampras compared to the set of big servers. This is not only borne out in the overall w%, and the grandslam w% but also in the way that agassi played in some of his losses vs. sampras in grand slam matches. Agassi was certainly in the 1993 wimbledon and the 2001 and 2002 U.S. open matches, when sampras was playing at a good to high level. So even in 3 of out of his 6 losses versus sampras agassi put up a very good fight. In contrast, I can only think of 2 matches out of the 11 losses where the big servers put up a good fight (98 wimbledon for ivan. and the 2002 u.s. open for rusedski). The rest were generally straight forward affairs.
Let me quote from Pete's book on the various matchups he faced.

Most guys stayed away from Andre's best shot, but I wanted to get to it in order to get him moving. If I was able to hit my backhand deep and hard to his forehand, I could start doing damage because the flow of play almost demanded that he go crosscourt -- bringing one of my best weapons, the running forehand, into play. That gave Andre something to fret about, because I could make him move with my forehand, and he wasn't an exceptional mover.

I also sought to get into forehand rallies with Andre. Those were athletic hitting contests in which I felt I had an edge, however marginal. (242)

Needless to say the natural flow of play is Nadal's forehand going to Federer's backhand -- strength to weakness.

Sampras/Agassi had more strength-to-strength, such as in their forehand rallies; and of course Pete's serve went directly against Andre's service return. And if the court was sufficiently fast, Sampras had the edge in those contests, because it aided his serve and made his superior movement felt.

He also mentions how on grass Andre's shots, especially his second serve kickers, would sit up comfortably for him.

Obviously that wasn't the case with the big servers, and this is what he says about Krajicek:

I never really liked big servers, the guys who could do to me what I routinely did to them. Returning serve and hitting passing shots were not my strengths. I was okay with them, but having to do that over and over took me out of my comfort zone. Krajicek could really put the pressure on; if he had his serve going, he was very tough to break, and that put more pressure on my service games. (285)

The big question for me on every surface but clay was, "Okay, what do I do to break the guy?" That was because I always felt confident that I could hold my serve. Andre didn't have that luxury -- at least not to the same extent that I did. (241)

The thing that set Stich apart from all the rest, Pete thought, was his ability to hit his second serve well and consistently. He said that he judged opponents by the quality of their second serve. Yes, "big serving" bothered him, but to be more precise, what he felt was really threatening was someone whose second serve was consistent, accurate, not easy to attack. Because then Pete could continue holding, but "what do I do to break the guy?"

The Krajicek loss:

He was suddenly going for his shots, especially his second serve. Whether he knew it or not, he was taking me into territory I least liked to visit. My m.o. called for me to approach even the most lethal serve-and-volleyers with the expectation that I'll get a good look at some second serves. If that happened, I could beat them. The strategy worked against Goran Ivanisevic, it worked against Boris Becker, and it worked against Stefan Edberg. But when it became harder for me to sniff at a second serve, it created a chain reaction. If I couldn't get to his serve, that put more pressure on mine. I think Richard sensed that, and his own excellent serving freed up the rest of his game, especially his return games. And that's how it almost always works. (173)

And something similar happened in the Philippoussis match. I did my own stats on that match, and Mark's success on points started by his first serve was not terribly high, at 78% (lower than Pete's). But his success on second serve was way up at 73% (thirteen points higher than Pete's own number).

It was surprising in '96, when he was in his prime, that he lost in straight sets on fast surfaces to Krajicek and Philippoussis, though Pete's description of a "chain reaction" helps explain what kind of a hole he felt himself to be getting into, when someone else's strength (the serve, but particularly the second ball) started cranking up against what he felt was the weakest part of his game (returning and passing).

It's just about what your strengths and weakness are, and what the other guy's are.

What your pointing out is overall records, and I fully agree that Agassi had the best record against Sampras. But it wasn't because he had any advantage in the matchup of strokes. It was because he worked so hard, was mostly uninjured, decided to stick around for a long time and proved to have great longevity.

By Pete's own account, the big servers fell away for various reasons: Philippoussis due to injury and lack of dedication; Stich because he "didn't seem to enjoy life at the top"; Krajicek because mentally he ran hot and cold from week to week. That's the reason that you find them, more often than Agassi, losing to Sampras, and having fewer wins against him. But matchup wise, they had every advantage.
 
First and foremost - all the players mentioned in this thread are champions in their own right. I think currently we can dub Federer the GOAT. However, if Nadal gets healthy and continues winning slams - after he wins in the upper teens (17-19) then perhaps we can call him the GOAT - unless Roger continues on a tear and ends up with some outrageous number like 20 or 25...Records are meant to be broken - just a side note here - Tiger Woods believes in himself but his credit was not given until it was 100% earned and he's not the GOAT yet until he has more majors secured than Nicklaus and he'll be the first to tell you that but he ALSO constantly refers to Nicklaus' number of second place and top 10 finishes...that being said, today, RF is the GOAT but he's turning 28 soon and Rafa still has many many more years ahead of him to retain the GOAT label....if he gets healthy - We have to account here that Fed has been able to perform consistently and Rafa is well on his way...

We'll be debating this very topic for the next 4-5 years but I think the next 10-15 major champions will solidify who deserves the label...

That's well said and I agree, based strictly on the numbers Fed can be considered the GOAT but only time will tell if he ever solves the Nadal riddle during his career. On top of that, if Nadal gets and stays healthy he has the ability to start racking up majors as well. I don't think anyone expected two such talented players to come along and dominate the majors so soon after Sampras set the GS mark. I don't think there's any conclusion to this until Fed and Nadal are retired and we have a lull in GS dominance. Personally, I really prefer dominant players of a generation as opposed to the GOAT title and have favorites from each decade.
 

urban

Legend
Good points about Stich, Krosero. Stich was one of the most talented tennis players i have seen, despite starting late with tennis (at 14 or 15 after a career as soccer player). His effortless serve was harder than it looked, and his backhand, when on song, was lethal. His volley was more accurate and telling than Sampras'. After Pilic coached him for a while begin 1996, he even rebuilt his formerly weak forehand. I have seen DC matches with Krajicek, when Stich literarlly toyed with the bif Dutchman. He could beat prime Muster on clay, and prime Sampras on fast courts, even when they played well.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Good points about Stich, Krosero. Stich was one of the most talented tennis players i have seen, despite starting late with tennis (at 14 or 15 after a career as soccer player). His effortless serve was harder than it looked, and his backhand, when on song, was lethal. His volley was more accurate and telling than Sampras'. After Pilic coached him for a while begin 1996, he even rebuilt his formerly weak forehand. I have seen DC matches with Krajicek, when Stich literarlly toyed with the bif Dutchman. He could beat prime Muster on clay, and prime Sampras on fast courts, even when they played well.

In Sampras' book he wrote that he feared Stich more than anyone.
 
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edberg505

Legend
I suppose I threw the first punch too. Not once did I call anyone a name. Yet he feels the need to do it to make himself feel better I guess. It won't be long before he's banned again.

It's because he's a namecalling idiot. Don't get his back. Just look at the way he treats people and you'll see why he got what he deserved.

Yup, I was spot on. The guy just calls people names for no reason. It's one thing having an intelligent insightful debate. But it's another thing entirely when his response starts with: "You buffoon!"
 
Yup, I was spot on. The guy just calls people names for no reason. It's one thing having an intelligent insightful debate. But it's another thing entirely when his response starts with: "You buffoon!"

Oh come on mate its hardly the most insulting thing in the world.
 

edberg505

Legend
Oh come on mate its hardly the most insulting thing in the world.

Ah, I see. As long as the insult isn't too harsh then it's okay, right? Well that certainly is good to know. I wonder what all the other people think whom he insulted. I'm sure they received insults a bit harsher than buffoon.
 
The difference is that's Sampras' personal belief. Sampras has said "Agassi made me a better player", while Federer said (after French Open win) "No. Maybe cuz he's a lefty, but I don't think he's made me better. I think I made him (and everyone) else better".

See the difference?? 4-1 vs 2-5.

The other difference is that Sampras was CLEARLY simply talking about the FEELING he had. He specifically states in the next line that Federer probably has the SAME FEELING.

Icedevil is none too bright.
 

rwn

Semi-Pro
Those who voted 'NO' in this poll are simply in denial.

"Sampras conceded the quandary Federer faces is that while many champions have named the Swiss stylist the Greatest Of All Time, you can make a clear the case he is not even the best of this time.

Skeptics point to Nadal's mastery of Federer in their head-to-head series and the fact Nadal has won six of their eight meetings in major finals — including victories on three different surfaces in the Australian Open final, Roland Garros final and Wimbledon final — as a sign the strong-willed Spaniard has the World No. 1's number.

While Sampras himself has bestowed the GOAT on Federer, he suggested today Federer must find a way to beat Nadal consistently in order to truly be called the GOAT."


Many of us have been stating this way before Sampras said it.

It´s funny that Sampras thinks clay is so important. It´s not smart to make people look with scrutiny at your failures, Pete.
 

World Beater

Hall of Fame
I think Sampras was as classy as it is possible for a champion to be in this interview. He just answered questions that were put to him. All those statements about Fed's h2h with Nadal were, IMO, made because some jacka** reporter must have wanted to get some juicy tidbits for quotes, and so must have put those questions to him.
.

I give a lot of credit to sampras for TRYING to be classy about this whole GOAT issue with federer. Sampras was/is arrogant and egotistical and when federer started the domination sampras mentioned how things were so much more "competetive" and that he couldn't imagine dominating anytime soon. Then things change and pete is suddenly talking about how he had to go through major champions and that he had it tougher. There are numerous articles quoting sampras saying as much.

After federer played with sampras in the exhibitions, only then did he really start to pass the baton on federer saying that he was the greatest. But every now and again, pete says something that reminds us he is not totally 100% gracious. I dont fault the guy because he was/is ultracompetetive and its tough to see ur records get broken


However, I disagree with this notion as to how the Sampras-Fed matches would play out. Most Sampras fans and fans of players in the Sampras era make it appear to be a great offense beats great defense scenario. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Going by how Fed served in the last 3 wim Finals, and going by how Sampras struggled to return Fed's serve in the only match they played (both had nearly the same aces), I would say that Sampras would have as much trouble with Fed's serve as Fed would have with Sampras' serve. So, there would be a lot of tie-breaks and a few points would decide the match.

Who will win the tie-breaks ? Who knows ? Both have excellent tie-break records.

For me, the thing is, that Sampras' absolute peak will win over Fed. BUT, it has to be his absolute peak. IOW, anything less from Sampras wouldn't cut it. And that means only '99 Sampras would cut it. Not '93-'97 Sampras, because he still played often from the baseline, and, sorry, as good as he is, Sampras cannot beat Fed playing from the baseline. No way. The Sampras that played the 1999 Wim F would win against any Fed.

To put it simply, Sampras at 100 % beats Fed at 100 %, while anything less than that, Fed wins.

Wilander once said that, Sampras playing at 95 or 100 % is the best player he has ever seen, even better than Federer BUT Fed. at 90% is better than Sampras at 90%. And I agree with him.

But if they had come up in the same era and played many matches through the years, how often can Sampras play at his peak, at his 100 % attacking ? I mean, through all of Sampras' career, there were only one year that I could say that he really played his peakest-peak - '99 summer.

So, I think if they played out a series of matches, Fed would end up winning more often than not, BUT Sampras, for a brief period, would hammer Fed for a few matches.

Sampras playing at his peakest-peak as your describe was able to beat agassi on grass in straights but the sets were not whitewashes by any means. Sampras has never really "thrashed" andre.

Contrast to federer's peak matches, and you see roger thrash the opposition giving breadsticks and bagels along the way, some of which andre, hewitt, roddick, safin etc ate even when these guys were playing good tennis.

When federer is playing his best tennis (100% peak), he brings both offense and defense to court. When sampras played 100%, he would bring offense - pete never really had a defensive game and had to rely on extremely high risk tactics that paid off because he could always rely on his serve in the fast conditions of the 90's.

I dont think its possible to see 100% peak federer against 100% peak sampras because by default federer playing at 100% means his whole game is clicking which includes returning etc.

I think pete could defeat roger, but roger has never really had problems with attacking players while in his prime. Whereas pete did have problems against guys who take it to him - krajicek, stich etc. Federer can take it to pete and DO much more.

Sampras had problems with a guy like ferreira mainly because wayne could return the serve and was a very good athlete who could hit passing shots on the run. Federer could do all that and more. Federer at 100% can serve like Sampras.
 

drwood

Professional
First of all, Sampras did destroy Agassi a few times...the 1990 US Open final comes to mind (4, 3, and 2).

The biggest reason Federer would beat Sampras is Federer's return of serve...nobody can serve Federer off of the court, and if Sampras couldn't do that, he'd be in trouble. Plus Federer's serve (as Sampras acknowledged) wouldn't give Pete many cracks into his service games.

Federer has the baseline prowess of Agassi with the movement of...Sampras. Therefore, unlike when facing Agassi, Sampras would never be able to feel comfortable in rallies with Federer -- Federer would be able to pick apart his backhand.

Sampras has always been somewhat arrogant, but in a passive-aggressive way...look at how he treated Rafter once Rafter started winning US Opens.
 

World Beater

Hall of Fame
First of all, Sampras did destroy Agassi a few times...the 1990 US Open final comes to mind (4, 3, and 2).
The biggest reason Federer would beat Sampras is Federer's return of serve...nobody can serve Federer off of the court, and if Sampras couldn't do that, he'd be in trouble. Plus Federer's serve (as Sampras acknowledged) wouldn't give Pete many cracks into his service games.

Federer has the baseline prowess of Agassi with the movement of...Sampras. Therefore, unlike when facing Agassi, Sampras would never be able to feel comfortable in rallies with Federer -- Federer would be able to pick apart his backhand.

Sampras has always been somewhat arrogant, but in a passive-aggressive way...look at how he treated Rafter once Rafter started winning US Opens.


im thinking more of doughnuts, breadsticks etc. double breaks and such.
 
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