Where does Djokovic forehand’s hand rank?

[GoldenSwing]

I would have to put it in the top 5. It’s not a bailout shot in a way that Federer, Nadal, and Del Potro could use but it’s incredibly consistent and never seems to break down. Good pace as well, always in the 75-81 mph range with varied spins

 

[jackson vile]

Top three ever, due to its insane consistency and great versatility. 1) Federer 2) Nadal

His back hand may be the greatest ever

You don’t get that many titles and slams that consistently without having a top three forehand

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

1. Novak because it is the most consistent in the most pressure moments .
2. Nadal almost as god, but not on all surfaces.
3. Federer the most aggressive forehand but often misfire against his two biggest rivals .

 

[Krish0608]

1. Novak because it is the most consistent in the most pressure moments .
2. Nadal almost as god, but not on all surfaces.
3. Federer the most aggressive forehand but often misfire against his two biggest rivals .

Things you only read on TTW

 

[Krish0608]

Novak is top 5 maybe. Or top 7 at worst. It’sa great shot though. You don’t win that many slams without it being a great shot

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

Things you only read on TTW

Only deluded Fedal fans think that their favorites forehands are the top 1.

 

[NatF]

Top 15.

 

[v11]

1. Novak because it is the most consistent in the most pressure moments .
2. Nadal almost as god, but not on all surfaces.
3. Federer the most aggressive forehand but often misfire against his two biggest rivals .

As a Novak fan, I strongly disagree.

Novak is very good from forhand side, as every single great player. But! He is not in top tier forehands, at all.

His game is great beacause of his instincts and split second decisions. He puts the ball in worst places for his opponents. Precision wise, angles wise, you might debate he has one of the best fh ever, if not even the best. But fh is so much about pace/power.

Imagine what kind of beast he would be, if he had Del Potro's fh. No need for precision in mm, when no one can catch the ball in the first place.

There are many elements to groundstroke, such as power, technique, variety, precision etc. Novak fares great in almost all aspects. He has decent power, as well. But that still doesn't compansate for immense power of few other guys.

His overall game iq, technique and physicality more than compensate, and he can endure fh 2 fh with best punchers. He can outsmart them with unexpected and ridiculously deep and accurate placement, crazy angle, but give him power, he would destroy opponents in first two hits, conserving energy for rest of the match.

One thing is to be one of the best from fh side and other to have one of the best fh ever. He is the former, not later.

 

[jl809]

Leaving aside PETE etc… is it better than Fernando Gonzalez’s?

 

[HailDjokovic]

As a Novak fan, I strongly disagree.

Novak is very good from forhand side, as every single great player. But! He is not in top tier forehands, at all.

His game is great beacause of his instincts and split second decisions. He puts the ball in worst places for his opponents. Precision wise, angles wise, you might debate he has one of the best fh ever, if not even the best. But fh is so much about pace/power.

Imagine what kind of beast he would be, if he had Del Potro's fh. No need for precision in mm, when no one can catch the ball in the first place.

There are many elements to groundstroke, such as power, technique, variety, precision etc. Novak fares great in almost all aspects. He has decent power, as well. But that still doesn't compansate for immense power of few other guys.

His overall game iq, technique and physicality more than compensate, and he can endure fh 2 fh with best punchers. He can outsmart them with unexpected and ridiculously deep and accurate placement, crazy angle, but give him power, he would destroy opponents in first two hits, conserving energy for rest of the match.

One thing is to be one of the best from fh side and other to have one of the best fh ever. He is the former, not later.

That just sounds like he has a historical forehand, you explaining yourself. Precision and placement trumps everything. Why go for an extra 5 mph when you can hit it deep to the baseline at 76 MPH with great angle? I would take that any day.

Let's not assume Djokovic is not capable of hitting his forehand at high speeds. He has one of the highest averages this year, in some entire tournaments averaging 81 mph (faster than alcaraz). It's a tactical decision.. obviously. He was trading 100 mph forehands with Alcaraz in Cincinatti lol.

Forehand and Backhand speed combined, Djokovic IS the biggest hitter on tour. Del Potro said this himself.

 

[junior74]

I find it impossible to rank a forehand's hand. Don't know what to look for.

 

[BVSlam]

Top 10, wherever that may be.

Simple; his forehand is a great asset to his overall playing style. Hard to break down, usually deep or angled enough, can be aggressive with it if the opponent requires it.

It's not as good as some other players' forehands because he doesn't rely on it as much. You're usually not in immediate danger if you hit a weaker shot to his forehand. However, it's in perfect balance with the rest of his game. Honestly, where his forehand ranks doesn't matter for Djokovic; all that matters is that he doesn't have a single part of his game that he really needs to protect with another part.

 

[ballamaz]

It never looks like a weakness whether against Fedal or the rest of the field. He can also attack with depth and or even lack of depth & wide angle. So I think all players respect it.

Whereas when Nadal plays ppl like Verdasco, Fritz and it becomes a FH contest, Nadal loses. He doesn't have the weapon you think he has, the other guy does.

 

[MichaelNadal]

It never looks like a weakness whether against Fedal or the rest of the field. He can also attack with depth and or even lack of depth & wide angle. So I think all players respect it.

Whereas when Nadal plays ppl like Verdasco, Fritz and it becomes a FH contest, Nadal loses. He doesn't have the weapon you think he has, the other guy does.

 

[v11]

That just sounds like he has a historical forehand, you explaining yourself. Precision and placement trumps everything. Why go for an extra 5 mph when you can hit it deep to the baseline at 76 MPH with great angle? I would take that any day.

Let's not assume Djokovic is not capable of hitting his forehand at high speeds. He has one of the highest averages this year, in some entire tournaments averaging 81 mph (faster than alcaraz). It's a tactical decision.. obviously. He was trading 100 mph forehands with Alcaraz in Cincinatti lol.

Forehand and Backhand speed combined, Djokovic IS the biggest hitter on tour. Del Potro said this himself.

Like I said, he wouldn't go the distance in rallies, if he had the option to end it easily, as few guys had. He would conserve energy. If you rank him that high in forehand, and he has arguably best return and bh, now even plays astonishing voleys, and is physical and mental giant, how come other players have a chance against him. How come he is not 40:20 against RF and RN? This is coming from someone who believes Novak is undisputed GOAT, and has believed so for quite some time.

Groundstroke quality and rally outcome from certain side are not synonyms. They are highly related, but not the same.

If he had Delpo's fh, he would destroy competition in evry single match. There would be no rivalries.

He is probably in top 15-20 fh ever.

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

As a Novak fan, I strongly disagree.

Novak is very good from forhand side, as every single great player. But! He is not in top tier forehands, at all.

His game is great beacause of his instincts and split second decisions. He puts the ball in worst places for his opponents. Precision wise, angles wise, you might debate he has one of the best fh ever, if not even the best. But fh is so much about pace/power.

Imagine what kind of beast he would be, if he had Del Potro's fh. No need for precision in mm, when no one can catch the ball in the first place.

There are many elements to groundstroke, such as power, technique, variety, precision etc. Novak fares great in almost all aspects. He has decent power, as well. But that still doesn't compansate for immense power of few other guys.

His overall game iq, technique and physicality more than compensate, and he can endure fh 2 fh with best punchers. He can outsmart them with unexpected and ridiculously deep and accurate placement, crazy angle, but give him power, he would destroy opponents in first two hits, conserving energy for rest of the match.

One thing is to be one of the best from fh side and other to have one of the best fh ever. He is the former, not later.

People forget how Novak forehand was so powerful and precise before racket switch at beginning of 2009 or elbow injury at the end of 2015 . I still remember 2007 and 2011 and the power and change of the direction at will with that forehand. That forehand was so dominant that Federer needed to slice as much as he could to avoid to be overpowered . Nowadays he goes for percentage tennis because he cannot summon the power on that forehand for longer periods of time, because it would destroy his operated elbow .

 

[80s New Wave]

Outside top 15? It's a really great shot - probably an 8 or 9 out of 10 but there have been a lot of great forehands.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

FH is easy to overrate for certain players. For example, as with the serve, some people get obsessed with pure power but don't consider placement and consistency.
Djokovic's placement and consistency (of pace and power) are elite, top 5 all-time. He tends to hit more down the middle than say Fed but is capable of very precise placement when he needs to.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Top 15.

I used to think so too but I think it's probably at least top 10 now. It's just too consistent to be ranked any lower IMO.

 

[NatF]

I used to think so too but I think it's probably at least top 10 now. It's just too consistent to be ranked any lower IMO.

All the great forehands were consistent, it's often the other stuff that wasn't. As a stand alone shot I think Djokovic's game would probably benefit from at least 10 different forehands. Saying now implies it's better than ever before which I think is untrue anyway...

 

[No_Kwan_Do]

Top 10 shot for me, just behind Gulbis.

 

[ballamaz]

For those saying Top 15, can you name 10 better FHs from all time or 7 from active players? No need to rank.

 

[The Blond Blur]

It never looks like a weakness whether against Fedal or the rest of the field. He can also attack with depth and or even lack of depth & wide angle. So I think all players respect it.

Whereas when Nadal plays ppl like Verdasco, Fritz and it becomes a FH contest, Nadal loses. He doesn't have the weapon you think he has, the other guy does.

 

[Kralingen]

Great, but it’s just that one half rung below the elite.

Plus it’s hard to separate the stroke itself from his unreal movement and incredible tennis brain.

You look at guys like Gonzalez, Del Potro, Roddick, even Tsonga, if you took away their FHs they might not even be top 30, Djoko has a lot of other things to elevate his game beyond the FH

Put it this way a GOAT FH wouldn’t have gone missing as much in big matches of his career as his did. 2015 RG F is probably the best argument against his FH being truly elite like a Fedal, Sampras, DelPo, Lendl.

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

Great, but it’s just that one half rung below the elite.

Plus it’s hard to separate the stroke itself from his unreal movement and incredible tennis brain.

You look at guys like Gonzalez, Del Potro, Roddick, even Tsonga, if you took away their FHs they might not even be top 30, Djoko has a lot of other things to elevate his game beyond the FH

Put it this way a GOAT FH wouldn’t have gone missing as much in big matches of his career as his did. 2015 RG F is probably the best argument against his FH being truly elite like a Fedal, Sampras, DelPo, Lendl.

Fed 2009 USO F
Fed 2012 AO SF
Rafa 2018 Wimbledon SF
Rafa 2019 AO F
Delpo 2018 USO F

All examples where the Forehand didn't fire nearly enough as it should have that it cost them the match. Your statement doesn't prove that Novak's FH is below elite.

Novak's FH is definitely elite, it's just that Fedal + Delpo's are better & have more prominent weapons as their FH.

 

[Kralingen]

Fed 2009 USO F
Fed 2012 AO SF
Rafa 2018 Wimbledon SF
Rafa 2019 AO F
Delpo 2018 USO F

All examples where the Forehand didn't fire nearly enough as it should have that it cost them the match. Your statement doesn't prove that Novak's FH is below elite.

Novak's FH is definitely elite, it's just that Fedal + Delpo's are better & have more prominent weapons as their FH.

I can write many, many more for Djokovic. More than I can for Federer or Nadal, beyond a doubt.

Its a great shot, don’t think it’s a top 5 FH is all.

 

[RF-18]

Djokos FH fits well on any surface and its ability to control points is off the charts. He can change direction with ease, consistent, powerful when he needs it to be, he can hit all sorts of angles. It's such a complete shot. He has outperformed both Fedal off that side many a times. Saying top 15 or just below the elite might be a troll attempt.

 

[Jonesy]

GOAT, according to a true Nadal fan

 

[nolefam_2024]

I think he is outside top 15. The argument about Roland Garros 2015 is true. He does have problems generating pace. He has one of the best fhs from last decade though. Probably top 5 in last decade. Since Federer's fh dropped off, he could beat Federer fh to fh which is amazing. But he always targeted Federer weaker backhand and not fh.

 

[Krish0608]

Only deluded Fedal fans think that their favorites forehands are the top 2.

You don't have to continue to embarrass yourself further.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Only deluded Fedal fans think that their favorites forehands are the top 2.

I am not deluded fedal fan. But I think they are top 2.

 

[Kralingen]

Djokovic inarguably has

Top 3 BH ever
Top 5 movement/instincts ever
Top 3 return ever

And some could even say GOAT in all those respects, that’s just at worst.

Also a very good serve, not sure how to rate serve as he’s clearly a level below servebots and many in tennis history, but it’s a good serve and at worst it’s around top 15-20 on Tour in any given match he’s played

So if he also had a top 5 FH all time it would be hard to see him ever losing a single match.

 

[NatF]

I think he is outside top 15. The argument about Roland Garros 2015 is true. He does have problems generating pace. He has one of the best fhs from last decade though. Probably top 5 in last decade. Since Federer's fh dropped off, he could beat Federer fh to fh which is amazing. But he always targeted Federer weaker backhand and not fh.

Its not the pace but the weight of shot. He doesn't have the insane racket head speed or sheer brute power of the best forehands. Its also why his inside out forehand is relatively average and not the kill shot many other players have.

 

[NoleFam]

It's impossible to be lower than top 10 but a lot probably will say it's top 5. Probably is the kill shot that won him so many Slams, especially in recent years. He can just blast his forehand at will these days. Just casually ripped a 102 mph forehand winner against Carlos at Cincy (didn't even look like he was trying) and was hitting 102 and 103 mph casually throughout the USO.

A lot of people confuse power with greatness. There's a lot more to a forehand than power. Djokovic's wrist action and the easy arm is why his shot is so good, and consistent. He gets excellent wrist action and a lot of coaches will point that out, which is why he gets easy power and it looks so relaxed, that you don't know he's hitting it that hard. He can consistently average 81 mph on it and you notice his average is even higher than Alcaraz's when they play.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic inarguably has

Top 3 BH ever
Top 5 movement/instincts ever
Top 3 return ever

And some could even say GOAT in all those respects, that’s just at worst.

Also a very good serve, not sure how to rate serve as he’s clearly a level below servebots and many in tennis history, but it’s a good serve and at worst it’s around top 15-20 on Tour in any given match he’s played

So if he also had a top 5 FH all time it would be hard to see him ever losing a single match.

100%

 

[Shaolin]

Top 382 at least, probably higher.

 

[ryushen21]

Aside from consistency, there's not anything that stands out about. He hits it undoubtedly well but it's not memorable.

Think of Pete's on-the-run forehand. That's a memorable shot and something that sets his forehand apart from others. I don't get that same sense from Djokovic's forehand.

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

You don't have to continue to embarrass yourself further.

Man gotta do what man gotta do.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Aside from consistency, there's not anything that stands out about. He hits it undoubtedly well but it's not memorable.

Think of Pete's on-the-run forehand. That's a memorable shot and something that sets his forehand apart from others. I don't get that same sense from Djokovic's forehand.

I have never watched Pete but I have heard more of his fh than the goat. Djokovic fh is very good but I never thought it was the best. Top 5 for last 10 years maybe.

 

[BlueB]

Djokovic inarguably has

Top 3 BH ever
Top 5 movement/instincts ever
Top 3 return ever

And some could even say GOAT in all those respects, that’s just at worst.

Also a very good serve, not sure how to rate serve as he’s clearly a level below servebots and many in tennis history, but it’s a good serve and at worst it’s around top 15-20 on Tour in any given match he’s played

So if he also had a top 5 FH all time it would be hard to see him ever losing a single match.

He hardly ever loses

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

I am not deluded fedal fan. But I think they are top 2.

It is a democracy, everybody has a right to an opinion based on hard facts.

 

[ryushen21]

I have never watched Pete but I have heard more of his fh than the goat. Djokovic fh is very good but I never thought it was the best. Top 5 for last 10 years maybe.

He is typically a model of consistency. And as a coach, I appreciate that a lot. Djokovic is actually one of the players I show my players the most because of how he uses his groundstrokes to create the opportunity to attack and end the point. So yeah, from a consistency standpoint, his strokes are very near if not at the top.

 

[NonP]

As a Djokostan moi-self who initially rated it top 10 of the OE, I'm afraid it doesn't quite rank that high:

Introducing True Groundstroke-Winning Percentage

What it says. That is, % of all groundstrokes (FHs in this case) won by the player as outright winners or induced forced errors which are then reduced by all unforced errors. Some of you jokers already know about TA's so-called FH/BH potency ratings (1 point for a winner + 0.5 for the shot...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

His net DTL win % (winners + induced FEs - UFEs) is almost shockingly low, actually. I'll just quote this relevant part of my otherwise infallible OP:

Djoker's dismal DTL % is a surprise. And since I don't think he's that hopeless in his DTL passes the only [explanation] I can think of is that Novak doesn't quite have the firepower to hit through an opponent when attacking his BH head-on (at least for non-lefties).

Nobody with such a glaring (relative) weakness can be top 10 all time. I dunno who that is (yet) but it's probably someone with a far inferior resume. Novak's unprecedented success has less to do with his FH than with his overall complete game including his ATG movement.

A couple more things:

Leaving aside PETE etc… is it better than Fernando Gonzalez’s?

Gonzo ain't top 10 either due to his so-so CC/DTL %s, but you could definitely argue that as a stand-alone shot it's better than Djoker's. Even if you ignore Fernando's gimmicky I-I % his strong I-O almost makes up for his deficiencies.

Djokovic inarguably has

Top 3 BH ever
Top 5 movement/instincts ever
Top 3 return ever

And some could even say GOAT in all those respects, that’s just at worst.

Also a very good serve, not sure how to rate serve as he’s clearly a level below servebots and many in tennis history, but it’s a good serve and at worst it’s around top 15-20 on Tour in any given match he’s played

So if he also had a top 5 FH all time it would be hard to see him ever losing a single match.

Nah, brah. Budge's was almost unanimously hailed as the best BH/RoS until the late '70s and you've got Muscles, Jimbo and your boy Dre in the OE alone. Top 5 maybe but top 3 all time is pushing it.

Aside from consistency, there's not anything that stands out about. He hits it undoubtedly well but it's not memorable.

Think of Pete's on-the-run forehand. That's a memorable shot and something that sets his forehand apart from others. I don't get that same sense from Djokovic's forehand.

As you know Pete's 2nd best weapon practically halved the court:

Better running forehand : Djokovic vs Sampras?

Lendl hit a mean ass forehand with a sweet ass racquet. I still think on the dead run that Pete's had more heat. Lendl's was probably more accurate, especially on the pass. I think a lot of people on these boards don't know that Lendl was the guy who pioneered the modern game that is the power...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[jm1980]

Djokovic's forehand serves his game well. It doesn't have the offensive capability of Federer's forehand, but that's not what his game is built around. Kind of like how Nadal's serve on its own isn't super impressive, but it works very well to set up the service point for him.

Although you could argue that if he had Federer's forehand, his entire game would be built differently. It's hard to separate/isolate an individual stroke from the rest of a player's game...

 

[daggerman]

What I've realized after spending a few minutes thinking about this question is that I have no idea how to rank forehands. I'm torn between two conflicting framing analogies.

Is ranking forehands akin to ranking fastballs (where heavily weighting velocity and ability to get the ball by a batter is unavoidable), or is it akin to ranking pitchers (where one's fastball is just one facet, and other pitches matter just as much, if not more)? There are fine reasons to frame the question in terms of either analogy, but if it's the former, I'd rank Djokovic's forehand around 10th, if it's the latter, I'd rank his forehand 2nd (behind Federer). In other words, you could think of the Djokovic forehand as either Greg Maddux's fastball, or as Greg Maddux.

But really there's not a big difference between 10th and 2nd (or 1st, for that matter)

 

[Third Serve]

1. Novak because it is the most consistent in the most pressure moments .
2. Nadal almost as god, but not on all surfaces.
3. Federer the most aggressive forehand but often misfire against his two biggest rivals .

is the standard of tennis analysis here really this low?

 

[ryushen21]

What I've realized after spending a few minutes thinking about this question is that I have no idea how to rank forehands. I'm torn between two conflicting framing analogies.

Is ranking forehands akin to ranking fastballs (where heavily weighting velocity and ability to get the ball by a batter is unavoidable), or is it akin to ranking pitchers (where one's fastball is just one facet, and other pitches matter just as much, if not more)? There are fine reasons to frame the question in terms of either analogy, but if it's the former, I'd rank Djokovic's forehand around 10th, if it's the latter, I'd rank his forehand 2nd (behind Federer). In other words, you could think of the Djokovic forehand as either Greg Maddux's fastball, or as Greg Maddux.

But really there's not a big difference between 10th and 2nd (or 1st, for that matter)

I love that comparison. Maddux was an amazing pitcher overall.

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

is the standard of tennis analysis here really this low?

You have to ask Peter Bodo, Jon Wertheim or Mats Wilander . They are really trying to minimize Novak achievements with their repeating Novak the Robot analysis texts but they only look like amateurs at best. Ubaldo and the British brigade are hilarious in their hate texts . Only David Law and Steve Flink are honest analyst.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Jon Wertheim is a fair analyst. Doesn't belong with the other two.

 

[NoleFam]

Jon Wertheim is a fair analyst. Doesn't belong with the other two.

Need to up your intuition game a bit there bud. Jon Wertheim is one of the most passive aggressive and biggest Djokovic haters in the media. I don't think Wilander belongs there.