Who is the better grass court player, Roddick or Djokovic?

[Herald]

Don't shoot the messenger. The author presented us with depth of detail about courts being slowed down and the BBC have determine that grass was different between 2003 and 2008. If you have any evidence that
this isn't true, then provide the fact rather than assumption.

I am not forcing you and other Fed hating trolls to believe what the BBC have proven that the playing condition was different between in 2003 and 2008. It's your prerogative to be in denial.

I don't think the stats result would have made any different had the BBC chose the experiment during the semi, quarterfinal or other previous rounds. One experiment is good enough to conclude that there's a huge change in grass between 2003 and 2008.

People say when a match is so equally competitive, a slightest change in the environment can make a difference between winning and losing. The 9 mph and 1 foot bounce height difference is huge, enough to tip the balance in Nadal's favor.

You're just butthurt that Djokovic owes his grass success to the ITF for making a big change and playing in the CIE. You're in no position to attack the BBC and who cares if you dismiss the article.

My friend, it's not an experiment. Taking one shot from one match doesn't tell you anything. There's not a scientist in the world that will tell you otherwise.

 

[Herald]

Yeah, Roddick sucks on grass. His run at Wimbledon and losing to the goat Federer is really telling.

No net game, no bh...guess that's why he's 5-4 agains Djokovic

Tell me with a straight face Roddick has a good backhand and net game.
Btw Novak was 2-1 (as a 20/21 year old) against Roddick in the "fast" courts of 2007-08.

 

[Herald]

For the argument sake lets for a moment forget about Djokovic's 7 and Roddick's zero Wimbledon titles. Who have Roddick beat in his Wimbledon runs towards his RU plates that makes him so much greater and better than Djokovic?

Just a minor detail to put aside. For the sake of argument of course.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Had Roddick/Nole never met once in their lifetime, and if someone said Roddick would have a hypothetical lead 5-4 H2H, you guys would think he/she is on cracked. But the reality is...Roddick got the best of Nole

Likewise, if Djokovic and Tsonga never met after 2010, we all would have laughed at the possibility of Djokovic turning the H2H around from 5-2 Tsonga to 17-6 Djokovic (7-0 for Djoko in two prime-for-prime years in ‘11-‘12).

Yet it happened.

The Roddick-Djokovic H2H at the end of 2010? 5-3 Roddick. Almost identical.

No doubt that A-Rod does better than 1 out of 16 (Tsonga, post-‘10) but it’s clear that Djokovic would have a pretty sizeable edge in the H2H across all surfaces over their best, say, 5-6 years

 

[Kralingen]

Andy Roddick wins vs top 25 players at Wimbledon:
Johansson 2x, Srichaphan, Grosjean, Coria, Schalken, Berdych, Ancic, 09 Murray. That’s it.

For good measure let’s include the losses outside of Federer - 02 Rusedski, 06 teenage Murray, 07 Gasquet, 08 Janko Tipsarevic, 10 Lu Yen-Hsun

frankly the fact that he won this poll is a complete joke. I’m not saying Djokovic would’ve beaten 03/04/05/09 Federer in his shoes but he would’ve certainly done better than Roddick did outside of those matches…

 

[RS]

Andy Roddick wins vs top 25 players at Wimbledon:
Johansson 2x, Srichaphan, Grosjean, Coria, Schalken, Berdych, Ancic, 09 Murray. That’s it.

For good measure let’s include the losses outside of Federer - 02 Rusedski, 06 teenage Murray, 07 Gasquet, 08 Janko Tipsarevic, 10 Lu Yen-Hsun

frankly the fact that he won this poll is a complete joke. I’m not saying Djokovic would’ve beaten 03/04/05/09 Federer in his shoes but he would’ve certainly done better than Roddick did outside of those matches…

How much do you weigh his 4 Queens titles and 1 extra final Wim final to Djokovic having the one more Wim title at the time?

 

[Kralingen]

How much do you weigh his 4 Queens titles and 1 extra final to Djokovic having the one more title at the time?

He beat Grosjean, Hewitt, and decrepit Agassi a couple times. Don’t think it is irrelevant, but don’t think it can overcome the fact that Djokovic actually won Wimbledon, and that he arguably had more impressive wins even then (Nadal, Tsonga, Hewitt, Baghdatis)

Even in 2013 this was wrong. In 2015 it was laughable. In 2022, it’s grounds to lock someone up in a mental institution.

 

[RS]

He beat Grosjean, Hewitt, and decrepit Agassi a couple times. Don’t think it is irrelevant, but don’t think it can overcome the fact that Djokovic actually won Wimbledon, and that he arguably had more impressive wins even then (Nadal, Tsonga, Hewitt, Baghdatis)

Even in 2013 this was wrong. In 2015 it was laughable. In 2022, it would be grounds to lock someone up in a mental institution.

I would have liked if not for.....

 

[RS]

He beat Grosjean, Hewitt, and decrepit Agassi a couple times. Don’t think it is irrelevant, but don’t think it can overcome the fact that Djokovic actually won Wimbledon, and that he arguably had more impressive wins even then (Nadal, Tsonga, Hewitt, Baghdatis)

Even in 2013 this was wrong. In 2015 it was laughable. In 2022, it’s grounds to lock someone up in a mental institution.

Do you think Murray had his arguments till 2018? Some people thought he was better till then......

 

[Kralingen]

Do you think Murray had his arguments till 2018? Some people thought he was better till then......

Murray still has an argument tbh.

 

[RS]

Murray still has an argument tbh.

Really?

People reasonably argue in a matchup a peak Murray beats a peak Djokovic though.

 

[TheFifthSet]

As for the original hypo and subsequent victory-lapping: lol, check thread and poll date. They're no longer in the same universe on grass, but before 2014 it wasn't the most absurd question to ask. Roddick led 5-1 in grass titles, 8-3 in grass finals and 3-2 in Wimby finals, with two admirable efforts put in against the arguable grass GOAT and personal tormentor. Djoko had the hardware and I still would have ranked him ahead, but it wasn't the most far-out thing to ponder back then.


Another funny thing to note is just how many of the Roddick votes come from Nadal fans. as many or more avowed Nadal fans than 'Fed devotees' giving A-Rod their support. Yet somehow this is an indictment on the ever-so-delusional Federer fanbase. Pitiable stuff.

 

[RS]

I just clocked you can't vote in the poll anymore

 

[RS]

As for the original hypo and subsequent victory-lapping: lol, check thread and poll date. They're no longer in the same universe on grass, but before 2014 it wasn't the most absurd question to ask. Roddick led 5-1 in grass titles, 8-3 in grass finals and 3-2 in Wimby finals, with two admirable efforts put in against the arguable grass GOAT and personal tormentor. Djoko had the hardware and I still would have ranked him ahead, but it wasn't the most far-out thing to ponder back then.


Another funny thing to note is just how many of the Djoko votes come from Nadal fans. Yet somehow this is an indictment on the ever-so-delusional Federer fanbase. Pitiable stuff.

We were high off 2013 so it increased judgement.

 

[TheFifthSet]

We were high off 2013 so it increased judgement.

Hah, meant to say Roddick votes from Nadal fans. Glad you understood though.

Anyway, it's fine. My point is that only Federer fans are catching flak for what seemed to be a popular opinion among both fanbases (and again, not the most ridiculous thing to believe, really). It's right there in the same poll being used to rip on Fed fans for. The self-ownage is real.

 

[RS]

Hah, meant to say Roddick votes from Nadal fans. Glad you understood though.

Anyway, it's fine. My point is that only Federer fans are catching flak for what seemed to be a popular opinion among both fanbases (and not the most ridiculous thing to believe, really). It's right there in the same poll being used to rip on Fed fans for. The self-ownage is real.

I would even agree in 2013 this was a discussion. It's just funny to look back on that's all and why people keep bumping it up.

 

[TheFifthSet]

I would even agree in 2013 this was a discussion. It's just funny to look back on that's all and why people keep bumping it up.

Tell that to @THUNDERVOLLEY.

 

[RS]

Tell that to @THUNDERVOLLEY.

 

[RS]

Djokovic fans are going over a bit over the top in earlier posts

 

[Tennfan123]

Roddick

 

[NoleFam]

Why should those who thought Roddick was the better grass player in 2013 think differently today? Because Nole has since won 6 WBs beating the likes of geriatric Federer, Kevin Anderson, and a host of LostGen mugs?

Roddick has 1 top 10 win at Wimbledon. The fact that you actually are doubling down on this losing argument is baffling. Asking why someone shouldn't still believe a 0 time Wimbledon champion is better than a 7 time champion?

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

The fact that you actually are doubling down on this losing argument is baffling. Asking why someone shouldn't still believe a 0 time Wimbledon champion is better than a 7 time champion?

The one and only reason this hollow-skulled argument exists is not to bolster Roddick's grass court credentials. Its all about the usual suspects trying--and failing in expected, spectacular fashion) to discredit Djokovic because he stands to surpass []Federer[/i] as the most successful Wimbledon champion. That likely outcome is driving the worst of Federer's fans into fits of rage and making ridiculous claims such as the subject of this thread.

In no surprise, this little group embarrasses themselves 'round the clock, and you can bet when Wimbledon 2023 arrives, you will see endless threads posted about why DJokovic needs to be barred from the event / wishing some sort of harm against him / "career inflation" fantasies / the titles are not worth the same, etc.

 

[NoleFam]

The one and only reason this hollow-skulled argument exists is not to bolster Roddick's grass court credentials. Its all about the usual suspects trying--and failing in expected, spectacular fashion) to discredit Djokovic because he stands to surpass []Federer[/i] as the most successful Wimbledon champion. That likely outcome is driving the worst of Federer's fans into fits of rage and making ridiculous claims such as the subject of this thread.

In no surprise, this little group embarrasses themselves 'round the clock, and you can bet when Wimbledon 2023 arrives, you will see endless threads posted about why DJokovic needs to be barred from the event / wishing some sort of harm against him / "career inflation" fantasies / the titles are not worth the same, etc.

You said it all right there and at the very least he has a chance to tie him at Wimbledon. Some of these arguments since this past Wimbledon are just downright embarrassing and ridiculous, but at the same time transparent as you pointed out.

 

[Herald]

-_-

 

[abmk]

Dude Roddick’s best win at Wimby is literally Mario Ancic. 09 Murray at a push but how much stock do we want to put into that given that 06 Murray beat “prime” Roddick.

Roddick was in a slump in the first half of 2006.
The 2009 Wim match is definitely the more important one,

 

[Herald]

Dude Roddick’s best win at Wimby is literally Mario Ancic. 09 Murray at a push but how much stock do we want to put into that given that 06 Murray beat “prime” Roddick.

Amazing how he flubbed a sure win over a trembling Roger in that 09 final.

 

[Razer]

Roddick has 1 top 10 win at Wimbledon. The fact that you actually are doubling down on this losing argument is baffling. Asking why someone shouldn't still believe a 0 time Wimbledon champion is better than a 7 time champion?

Roddick is slightly overrated by Roger fans like Mr @duaneeo because he was the prime competition of Roger in the 2000s along with Nadal, but Roddick was not a mug either, he was a mini ATG level on Grass for sure.

I believe Roddick at his absolute best will win over peak Murray at Wimbledon. IF Roddick and Murray's birth years are swapped then Murray's 2 wimbledons become 0.0 while Roddick will take maybe 1 or 2 wimbledons, don't be surprised if he wins 2013 and 2016 wimbledons which Murray won.

But Novak, Roger and Rafa at their best are in a higher tier, he isn't beating them on the new grass, but if the grass is the like the 1990s then Roddick will take out Rafa a few times, but Novak will be very hard to dislodge (just like Goran could not dislodge Andre Agassi in 1992 even after hitting 37 aces), Roger too will not lose in 1990s to Roddick.

 

[No_Kwan_Do]

Andy Roddick wins vs top 25 players at Wimbledon:
Johansson 2x, Srichaphan, Grosjean, Coria, Schalken, Berdych, Ancic, 09 Murray. That’s it.

For good measure let’s include the losses outside of Federer - 02 Rusedski, 06 teenage Murray, 07 Gasquet, 08 Janko Tipsarevic, 10 Lu Yen-Hsun

frankly the fact that he won this poll is a complete joke. I’m not saying Djokovic would’ve beaten 03/04/05/09 Federer in his shoes but he would’ve certainly done better than Roddick did outside of those matches…

The fact that he's even being compared to Murray now as they huff the copium is amusing.

Comparing Roddick's top 25 wins at Wimbledon's to Murray's :

Roddick - Johansson x2, Srichaphan, Grosjean, Coria, Schalken, Berdych, Ancic, and Murray
Murray - Tsonga x3, Gasquet x2, Stephanek, Roddick, Wawrinka, Querrey, Simon, Cilic, Ferrer, Djokovic, Raonic, Berdych, Anderson, Janowicz, Youzhny, Karlovic, Kyrgios, Basilashvili and Seppi

Murray's peak on Grass was the OGs in 2012 when he took out both Djokovic and Federer in straights. No peak version of Roddick is doing that.

 

[TMF]

For the argument sake lets for a moment forget about Djokovic's 7 and Roddick's zero Wimbledon titles. Who have Roddick beat in his Wimbledon runs towards his RU plates that makes him so much greater and better than Djokovic?

The title of this thread is about who's better on grass, not greater. I believe Roddick is better on fast grass but Nole is better on slow.

If you don't like the answer then tell one of your ******** not to be so insecure by not bumping old thread.

 

[TMF]

My friend, it's not an experiment. Taking one shot from one match doesn't tell you anything. There's not a scientist in the world that will tell you otherwise.

Too bad for you, they put out time and effort to prove their point. Unlike you sitting on your couch potato having nothing to dispute except crying

 

[NoleFam]

Roddick is slightly overrated by Roger fans like Mr @duaneeo because he was the prime competition of Roger in the 2000s along with Nadal, but Roddick was not a mug either, he was a mini ATG level on Grass for sure.

I believe Roddick at his absolute best will win over peak Murray at Wimbledon. IF Roddick and Murray's birth years are swapped then Murray's 2 wimbledons become 0.0 while Roddick will take maybe 1 or 2 wimbledons, don't be surprised if he wins 2013 and 2016 wimbledons which Murray won.

But Novak, Roger and Rafa at their best are in a higher tier, he isn't beating them on the new grass, but if the grass is the like the 1990s then Roddick will take out Rafa a few times, but Novak will be very hard to dislodge (just like Goran could not dislodge Andre Agassi in 1992 even after hitting 37 aces), Roger too will not lose in 1990s to Roddick.

He is overrated, by Federer fans especially, but he was obviously not a mug on grass either. To me, there are 5 levels when you are discussing mastery on a surface or at a Slam. There's good, great, excellent, ATG and legendary. Roddick falls into the great category.

The head to head with Roddick and Murray is 1-1 at Wimbledon, with Murray beating him in 2006 and he beating Murray in 2009. I think they would split meetings. With the ages switched, it still would be difficult for Roddick at Wimbledon if you coincide the ages where he was in great form to the years in Murray's era. Roddick was almost 27 when he made the final in 2009, which is 2014 for Murray in comparison. That means he goes up against 2014 Djokovic, Federer, Cilic, Dimitrov, Tsonga, etc. Not easy for him.

He was 21-23 when he made the SF and finals in 2003-2005. That means those years match up with 2008-2010. His best chance to snatch one would be his 2004 form against 2009 Federer. I think that Roddick should beat that field and Federer. So it looks like he ends up with 1 since I don't think he beats Fedal in 2008 or Nadal in 2010.

Totally agreed on the last sentence.

 

[TMF]

Tell me with a straight face Roddick has a good backhand and net game.
Btw Novak was 2-1 (as a 20/21 year old) against Roddick in the "fast" courts of 2007-08.

Roddick had a great career and was inducted into Hall of Fame in 2017. He could have won multiple slams had not for peak Federer. Of course he has a good bh and net game otherwise he wouldn't even make it as a pro.

It ends with a 5-4. But Roddick was a better player during Federer's peak years when he was denied at Wimbledon, USO and AO

 

[RS]

He is overrated, by Federer fans especially, but he was obviously not a mug on grass either. To me, there are 5 levels when you are discussing mastery on a surface or at a Slam. There's good, great, excellent, ATG and legendary. Roddick falls into the great category.

The head to head with Roddick and Murray is 1-1 at Wimbledon, with Murray beating him in 2006 and he beating Murray in 2009. I think they would split meetings. With the ages switched, it still would be difficult for Roddick at Wimbledon if you coincide the ages where he was in great form to the years in Murray's era. Roddick was almost 27 when he made the final in 2009, which is 2014 for Murray in comparison. That means he goes up against 2014 Djokovic, Federer, Cilic, Dimitrov, Tsonga, etc. Not easy for him.

He was 21-23 when he made the SF and finals in 2003-2005. That means those years match up with 2008-2010. His best chance to snatch one would be his 2004 form against 2009 Federer. I think that Roddick should beat that field and Federer. So it looks like he ends up with 1 since I don't think he beats Fedal in 2008 or Nadal in 2010.

Totally agreed on the last sentence.

2009 Federer would still find a way of beating 2004 Roddick for me as strange as that may sound.

 

[Nadal_Django]

The title of this thread is about who's better on grass, not greater. I believe Roddick is better on fast grass but Nole is better on slow.

If you don't like the answer then tell one of your ******** not to be so insecure by not bumping old thread.

"I believe" is very weak argument in this specific debate, man. Especially when the other guy is like a billion times more accomplished and successful than Roddick. You have to go above and beyond in this matter in order to defend successfully Roddick's case I'm afraid. The things like, I believe, trust me bro, it's my eye test, isn't going to cut it in this specific debate, bro.

 

[NeutralFan]

"I believe" is very weak argument man. Especially when the other guy is like a billion times more accomplished and successful than the other guy. You have to go above and beyond in this matter in order to defend successfully Roddick's case I'm afraid. I believe, trust me bro, it's my eye test, isn't going to cut it in this specific debate, bro.

Son! Imo, they are not wrong when Djokovic has a negative h2h against non prime Roddick and Djokovic majority of slams came when Fedal were off prime. it's such a shame Djokovic has a negative h2h against non prime weak era Titan Roddick and that also include defeat at his pet slam.

 

[Herald]

Roddick had a great career and was inducted into Hall of Fame in 2017. He could have won multiple slams had not for peak Federer. Of course he has a good bh and net game otherwise he wouldn't even make it as a pro.

It ends with a 5-4. But Roddick was a better player during Federer's peak years when he was denied at Wimbledon, USO and AO

Your reasoning also applies to Federer-Djokovic. Of course Novak has a great serve and netgame, he won 21 majors and surpassed Roger in the h2h, 27-23.

 

[Herald]

Too bad for you, they put out time and effort to prove their point. Unlike you sitting on your couch potato having nothing to dispute except crying

Still not hearing a counterargument from you.

 

[Herald]

2009 Federer would still find a way of beating 2004 Roddick for me as strange as that may sound.

Any decent version of Federer will beat 2004 Roddick.

 

[PerilousPear]

Surely Roddick, the superior grass player, won the only grass match they played at Olympics 2012.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Murray still has an argument tbh.

Murray over Djokovic now is as laughable as Roddick over Djokovic was in 2015, if not more.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Murray over Djokovic now is as laughable as Roddick over Djokovic was in 2015, if not more.

Djokovic needs to win 10 Wimbledon titles to convince Kralingen. There's no other way around now for the Serbian buddhist I'm afraid.

 

[SonnyT]

Anyone had 2 wins over Roger at Wimb? Djoker had 3.

Roger was only 33 when he first lost to Djokovic, who will be 36 at next Wimb.

 

[Herald]

Roddick is great on grass. Novak is an all time great on grass, and moving towards slow grass GOAThood.

 

[Mainad]

Anyone had 2 wins over Roger at Wimb? Djoker had 3.

Anyone other than Murray ever straight setted Federer in a final at Wimbledon?

 

[RS]

I bet this thread will be comment blocked.

 

[Herald]

Anyone other than Murray ever straight setted Federer in a final at Wimbledon?

Nicely done.

 

[duaneeo]

Asking why someone shouldn't still believe a 0 time Wimbledon champion is better than a 7 time champion?

Nole will forever be known as a 'great' grass player because of those 7 WB titles won against weak contemporaries, 90s-born mugs, and his main WB rival Old-erer, but I suspect even you Nole fans know how not-great he truly is on grass, and that there are many who are better.

 

[RS]

 

[Unseeded Player]

Nole will forever be known as a 'great' grass player because of those 7 WB titles won against weak contemporaries, 90s-born mugs, and his main WB rival Old-erer, but I suspect even you Nole fans know how not-great he truly is on grass, and that there are many who are better.

Hahaha....Not too old to defeat anyone, except Novak.... 3 lost finals against biggest rival really hurts

 

[Unseeded Player]

Nole will forever be known as a 'great' grass player because of those 7 WB titles won against weak contemporaries, 90s-born mugs, and his main WB rival Old-erer, but I suspect even you Nole fans know how not-great he truly is on grass, and that there are many who are better.