what NTRP is this kid?

Avles

Avles

Hall of Fame
Photoshop said:
Huh? Not sure if serious :-| Is a 4.0 half as good as a 7.0? Is the difference between 3.5 and 4.0 same as the difference between 6.5 and 7.0?? If one takes 3 years to become a 4.0, does it mean he will be a 7.0 in 6 years???

The 12 year old kid in the video will annihilate 4.0s. I don't know why some of you are saying he's lacking power. He's got the techniques down... he doesn't need power to beat 4.0's or even 4.5's.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure TTMR is joking. TennisCJC on the other hand appears to be serious, and I think he's wrong.

A little more info on this kid is here:
http://rankings.tennis.com.au/breakdown/Alexei-Popyrin

Also, it looks like he's winning 4a categoria tournaments in Italy:
http://www.tennisbordighera.it/news_leggi.php?news=187

That's about a 4.5 level tournament I think, and he won the final 6-3 6-3.
 
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Magic of tennis

Magic of tennis

Semi-Pro
I wonder if the kid came from San Francisco. I saw one kid looks like him but maybe younger than this kid playing in the summer tennis camp in San Francisco. He was good. We need many more those kids to bring back world #1 title in USA
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
Lol, that was one of the funniest threads i have ever read...

Idiots.

In your NTRP terms, he is going to bagel anyone under 4.5, simple fact.

LeeD, the Juniors of the 70s and even the 80s could barely play at all in comparison with the top kids going around today, you need to update your understanding. Drop and lob him? LOL!!!!!!!!!
 
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G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
TTMR said:
Currently a 3.0--would be a 2.5 in SoCal.

If he is willing to put in the effort, practice for several hours a day, defer academics and social functions, hire a top private coach, hire a personal trainer, spend 15-20 hours a week on strength and conditioning training, I think he could be a top 3.5 or low end 4.0.

The main feature of his game that is lacking is power. He can have any shot in the book and the best footwork in the world, but without the power to back it up, ultimately he's just a pusher.
Click to expand...

umm no ?

no way hes a 2.5 ANYWHERE , and at 3.0 consistency will win you matches since a 3.0 usually can't sustain a rally more than 4-5 shots (in practice yes, in a game no)

I wouldn't put him any lower than 3.5 , higher now if you look at his older videos.
 
N

NLBwell

Legend
In the video he's 9 years old. He therefore is not capable of playing on a full-sized court. Also, since he isn't playing Quickstart he will never be any good at tennis.
 
G

GuyClinch

Legend
Kid could probably play with 4.0s. If we are talking about LEAGUE RATED male 3.5s and 4.0s they will give him some trouble though.

Truth is most people you meet who don't play in leagues vastly exaggerated their skill level. Most so called 3.5s are 3.0s or 2.5. Most 4.0s would get crushed in a 3.5 league and so on.

Secondly you look ALOT better hitting against a pro. Whereas in a match this kid will be fed all kinds of spinny junk. This holds true for amateurs. This is why so many women pay good money to hit with a pro. They want to feel they are 'good' at tennis. And the way a pro can hit will make them feel that way..

That being said off the ground his strokes are going to be better then most people - so he should be able to use that to beat the some of the 4.0s and all the 3.5s.

He shouldnt be playing matches with adults though. With the wrong kind of player it would really mess up his development. As some of the counter strategies (a very western grip for example) would hurt him as he grows up.
 
lethalfang

lethalfang

Professional
HunterST said:
Lol, people obviously underestimate how good even the young top juniors are.

When Agassi was 9-12, his father had him hustling players at the local club, and he had beaten most of the players AT THE LOCAL COLLEGE.

This kid might not be as good as agassi at that time, I don't know what his ranking is. But if it's very good nationally, the 2.5-3.5 rankings are ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm pretty sure a 12-year old Agassi would bagel a 9-year old Agassi every single time.
 
J

JustBerdIT!!!

Banned
Once again remember, he is only rallying, Im not saying this kid is a 2.5 to a 3.0 that just ridiculous, he could probably beat a solid young (28 year old) 4.0 player in a close match. I know from experience that I used to as a junior and all juniors now play 10 times better rallying and practicing, the mental strength is just not there. now if this kid was a 30 year old and this good, yes a 5.0-5.5 rating would be applicable to him. But the mental and physical strength is not there. Also, the saddest part is most kids this good at this age either burnout or just lose interest all together. the once top juniors now on ATP (Roddick, Fed, Nadal, Berd, Gasque) are a 1 in a 1000 kids. And you also have to account some kids go to college and play D1 and then they just go into a professional job at a club. Alot of them just want to kick back and relax and make a non stressful living off of tennis, and some eve quit all together after H.S. or College.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
The original video was when he was 9 yo. At age 9, he would start every point on defensive against good 4.0 and above. His serve at 9 yo was below average for 4.5 level and the serves coming at him at 4.5 would be better than he sees at 9 yo open level.

At more recent age 11 or 12, he would likley beat majority of 4.0 and compete well at 4.5 level. Possibly hang with some 5.0s.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
At 9, he's susceptible to many gamesmanship displays, drop shots, lobs, and "boring" tennis.
At 12, even if his groundies don't improve whatsoever, he can handle most if not all 4.5's, give push 5.0's and non thinking 5.0's trouble to boot.
A smart 5.5 can still pummel this kid.
 
Avles

Avles

Hall of Fame
Every now and then I remember this thread and check in on this kid to see how he's doing. He's now 14--he reached the QF at Les Petits As this year, and just played a Futures qualie in Spain (lost in the first round). Looks to me like a pro career is still a possibility for him!
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
I doubt that kid would lose to 3.5's

Competitively he Looks like a 4.5 to me ... limiting factor is his size. His serve will be easily attackable and he will have trouble covering the whole court at the pace a 4.5+ can generate.

Skillwise he looks a bit higher and will likely grow up to be a player that hardly cares about NTRP.
 
Fugazi

Fugazi

Professional
Timbo's hopeless slice said:
Lol, that was one of the funniest threads i have ever read...

Idiots.

In your NTRP terms, he is going to bagel anyone under 4.5, simple fact.

LeeD, the Juniors of the 70s and even the 80s could barely play at all in comparison with the top kids going around today, you need to update your understanding. Drop and lob him? LOL!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Amen!

10chars
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Pure BS there...
The average Junior is no better than 30 years ago.
The TOP juniors are much better, yes I can agree.
The worse juniors are the same as 30 years ago.
That kid at 9 is a very good HITTING 4-4.5. As for match play, he's a winning 3.5 and a middlin 4.0 who is smart and understands the way to play a little kid who needs to cover a huge court.
Dummies need not apply, unless you are a 4.5 dummy, hitting into the kid's sweetspot.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
How many TT posters get to hit with little kids?
FEW, I'd expect.
I'm a self confessed "high 3.5- lowest 4.5" level player.
I have played a top 30, NorCal Junior Girl's 16 now for 8 sets, never lost one IN SINGLES.
In doubles, maybe out of 40 or so sets, have lost maybe 5 sets total to her and her better rated younger sis. I have had varied partners from female 3.5's to men's 4.0's.
Kids are kids, and will get better with age and experience.
For me, it's only gonig one way...dowhill, so I better enjoy the moment now.
 
Fugazi

Fugazi

Professional
LeeD said:
Pure BS there...
The average Junior is no better than 30 years ago.
The TOP juniors are much better, yes I can agree.
The worse juniors are the same as 30 years ago.
That kid at 9 is a very good HITTING 4-4.5. As for match play, he's a winning 3.5 and a middlin 4.0 who is smart and understands the way to play a little kid who needs to cover a huge court.
Dummies need not apply, unless you are a 4.5 dummy, hitting into the kid's sweetspot.
Click to expand...
lol so not bullying and/or using gamesmanship on a 9 yo kid is being a dummy? ;-) And for the record: dropping and lobbing? Really?!!
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Einstein...
You drop so you lob the kid, making him cover more court than you need to cover. Little kids are short, easy to lob over them. Hard to lob over JohnIsner.
You don't drop shot to win THAT stroke, but to run them around, taking away their wind.
Yes really.
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
LeeD said:
How many TT posters get to hit with little kids?
FEW, I'd expect.
I'm a self confessed "high 3.5- lowest 4.5" level player.
I have played a top 30, NorCal Junior Girl's 16 now for 8 sets, never lost one IN SINGLES.
In doubles, maybe out of 40 or so sets, have lost maybe 5 sets total to her and her better rated younger sis. I have had varied partners from female 3.5's to men's 4.0's.
Kids are kids, and will get better with age and experience.
For me, it's only gonig one way...dowhill, so I better enjoy the moment now.
Click to expand...

Top 30 in the STATE or COUNTRY? there's a huge difference.
 
mightyrick

mightyrick

Legend
gmatheis said:
Top 30 in the STATE or COUNTRY? there's a huge difference.
Click to expand...

It's not even a Top-30 in state. It's a NorCal Top-30... which is basically a much smaller region.

A Top-30 Girls 16 in California STATE would double-bagel LeeD in a 3-set match with him being lucky to get 5 points the entire match.

4 of the 5 points would probably be her double-faulting.
 
Fugazi

Fugazi

Professional
LeeD said:
Einstein...
You drop so you lob the kid, making him cover more court than you need to cover. Little kids are short, easy to lob over them. Hard to lob over JohnIsner.
You don't drop shot to win THAT stroke, but to run them around, taking away their wind.
Yes really.
Click to expand...
lol and you explain it to me! Ok let me explain myself more clearly: dropping and lobbing works against ordinary 9-10 yo kids and against my mom. That's as far as this tactic will get anyone (after 1976, that is).
 
HackersRUs

HackersRUs

Rookie
Hmm, I would have agreed with you up until the match I saw last week.

There is a nine year old player locally who is top 5 nationally, plays 12s tournaments with normal balls etc..

anyway, one of the local club teams unexpectedly played him in a pennant (league) match as a fill in..

(not meant to happen, against the rules it turns out, but at the time nobody knew what to do so they let him play the one match, which is in the format of 2 doubles and a singles in a three person team)

The standard is around the 4.0 level.

Now, the interesting thing is not that the lad lost, which wasn't unexpected, but that he lost so badly to some fairly mediocre middle aged opposition.

This was particularly evident in the singles where his 55+ year old opponent just calmly ran him around with lobs and angles and slices for a 6 - 0 result..

throughout all three matches, the kid looked fantastic and smashed groundstrokes like there was no tomorrow. Trouble was, despite a few spectacular winners, the wiley club players just kept knocking them back and making him cover the court until he eventually either messed up or just failed to get to the ball..

I watched the match with the young man's coach who admitted he was expecting a different outcome but was actually pleased because it gave him a real insight into where the young lad was at with his game..
 
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T

TCF

Guest
HackersRUs said:
Hmm, I would have agreed with you up until the match I saw last week.

There is a nine year old player locally who is top 5 nationally, plays 12s tournaments with normal balls etc..

anyway, one of the local club teams unexpectedly played him in a pennant (league) match as a fill in..

(not meant to happen, against the rules it turns out, but at the time nobody knew what to do so they let him play the one match, which is in the format of 2 doubles and a singles in a three person team)

The standard is around the 4.0 level.

Now, the interesting thing is not that the lad lost, which wasn't unexpected, but that he lost so badly to some fairly mediocre middle aged opposition.

This was particularly evident in the singles where his 55+ year old opponent just calmly ran him around with lobs and angles and slices for a 6 - 0 result..

throughout all three matches, the kid looked fantastic and smashed groundstrokes like there was no tomorrow. Trouble was, despite a few spectacular winners, the wiley club players just kept knocking them back and making him cover the court until he eventually either messed up or just failed to get to the ball..

I watched the match with the young man's coach who admitted he was expecting a different outcome but was actually pleased because it gave him a real insight into where the young lad was at with his game..
Click to expand...

There are other kids his age do have the ability to handle them though. There is a Russian girl down here who turns 10 in January. She feasts on the wiley old timers, takes balls out of the air, has a killer slice and drop shot, etc.
 
M

maggmaster

Hall of Fame
Yea my club has several nationally ranked juniors who I hit with regularly. I am not a wiley old timer but I do have a junk game that I sometimes use when nothing else seems to be working. My junk game does not phase most of the better juniors.
 
B

Bendex

Professional
LeeD said:
Kid would lose in a good 3.5 tournament.
Jim Courier might still be a 6.5 level player now, but as he feeds the kid, he might as well be a 4.0. He's FEEDING, not playing competitively.
Little kid has no match experience, especially against adults. Any strategist would take the kid right off his game, make him crying to mommy in no time.
Obviously, kid as potential to be a top level junior, and even top level player, IN THE FUTURE.
Kids might run like rabbits, but they don't know where to run to, can't cover all that much court (see Karlovic cover court in 2 steps), haven't seen all the wierd shots that tennis can throw at you, and can be thrown off concentration.
Click to expand...

A 10 year old I used to coach could beat some pretty good adults. I had him playing pretty much any good adult I could find, and many an experienced old club player was surprised to be beaten by someone so tiny.

These kids are playing pressure packed tournaments almost every week, so are probably better in the heat of battle than most 4.0 adults.
 
tennis_balla

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Its amazing that people here believe that a 3.5 could beat that kid. You guys are seriously underestimating how good these juniors really are, how determined and athletic.
 
treblings

treblings

Hall of Fame
if you look at the original video from 2010, the kid was 9 years old.
he played with what looks like an adult size racquet, normal balls and
using the whole court against Jim Courier.
so much for limiting under 10´s to smaller racquets, orange courts and balls
what is good for average talented kids can be detrimental for the development
of future elite players
our national federation for example disagrees.
 
G

GuyClinch

Legend
Kid could do well in a 4.0 league IMHO. Lacks strength but his technique is phenomenal. I think around 4.0 some of the guys would be able to punish him for lack of strength - but not until then.

3.5 is crazy talk..
 
Avles

Avles

Hall of Fame
This kid is now 6'5'', and ranked 1150 in the world-- he just played in the Canberra challenger (lost 6-7, 4-6 to Pierre Hugues Hebert).
 
jm1980

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
A lot of people here are either clueless or delusional... I have seen a very good 3.5 (his team made sectionals that year) get absolutely schooled by a 10 year old kid, and he is miles behind the kid in the OP. There's no way he'd lose to anyone rated below 4.0, and I would bet on him to beat most 4.0s as well.

PS: Going by UTR, which aims to create a consistent rating across ages and genders, top American juniors at age 12 have a UTR of around 10, which is roughly equivalent to 4.5/5.0. Top female juniors at 12 have UTRs around 8 or 9, equivalent to a 4.5 male. This seems about right.
 
Avles

Avles

Hall of Fame
This kid is now ATP top 200 — Tennis Abstract says he’s the 4th-highest ranked U20 player in the world.

Guess he was for real!
 
Traffic

Traffic

Hall of Fame
Tough to say at 9. I know by 10, he should be fast enough to get lobs and drop shots and give drops and lobs of his own. At his level, HE is toying with his peers so would be on par with many adults in terms of dishing off pace balls. He grew up playing tennis when he could barely run. His ability to hit strokes and read his opponent is like breathing.
 
Bud

Bud

Bionic Poster
Avles said:
11 years later, this kid (Alexei Popyrin) has won a title on the ATP tour. I'll bump this thread again if he makes top 10 or wins a major. :)
Click to expand...

Going back to the original post and video when he was 9. What adult level is a future ATP pro at 9?
 
Dartagnan64

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Bud said:
Going back to the original post and video when he was 9. What adult level is a future ATP pro at 9?
Click to expand...

I'd certainly rather play him at 9 than at age 20. Until they get to the age where drop shots no longer work, I think I've got a junkballers chance against any junior.
 
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