Was 2011 Djokovic the greatest tennis force we've ever seen?

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
I have studied tapes of Prime Sampras, Prime Fed, Prime Rafa, and Prime Novak and must conclude that Novak in 2011 reached heights that no one ever has.

His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.

Moreover, 2011 Novak beat FAR better competition (including Fed, Nadal, and Murray) than 2005 Fed.
 
I have studied tapes of Prime Sampras, Prime Fed, Prime Rafa, and Prime Novak and must conclude that Novak in 2011 reached heights that no one ever has.

His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.

Moreover, 2011 Novak beat FAR better competition (including Fed, Nadal, and Murray) than 2005 Fed.

Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.
 
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Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
I am actually nostalgic for 2011. That was an AMAZING run, the likes of which we will not see from any player in a long time!

And yes, I know that Fed ended that run, but even that match will go down as a modern classic. It was MUCH closer than one might assume. If Novak had won that first set tiebreak he would have gone on to win the Calendar Year Grand Slam in my opinion. Rafa was not going to stop him...
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces.

Of course! Novak had to lose somewhere and Fed had the psychological edge going into that match, playing with a nothing to lose attitude.

At the USO, Fed played a brilliant match again, but he couldn't put away Novak in the clutch, and that is all that matters. The fact that Nole came back in the fifth set two match points down is testament to his indefatigable will!
 

MonkeyBoy

Hall of Fame
Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.

Prime Fed was getting owned by baby Nadal. Prime Djokovic was owing prime Nadal.
 

Day Tripper

Semi-Pro
I have studied tapes of Prime Sampras, Prime Fed, Prime Rafa, and Prime Novak and must conclude that Novak in 2011 reached heights that no one ever has.

His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.

Moreover, 2011 Novak beat FAR better competition (including Fed, Nadal, and Murray) than 2005 Fed.


Have to disagree with you on that one. Maybe if he won the Grand Slam. I go with Federer's 2006 as the pinnacle calendar year performance in mens tennis in the modern era.

But then again some people think Le Bron and Kobe are better than Jordan. Each to their own I guess!
 

Jeffrey573639

Semi-Pro
His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.
Aside from the movement, I would agree completely but I think we ought to stress that Fed's game isn't built on defensive skills or consistent bachands. It's built on very different foundations. Sure Novak 2011 had insane defensive skills, returns and consistency off both wings as well as defensive/lateral movement but prime Fed had equally amazing transition game, all court agression, clutch serving and an insane forehand. So it's hard to compare.
 

FreeBird

Legend
Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.

Those who say that Federer's 2006 season was better than Djokovic's 2011 must remember that his head to head against '20 year old baby' Nadal was 2-4 that year. It can't be considered dominant season if you can't even dominate against your sole contender. So, Federer only dominated the likes of Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Roddick and Gasquet while Djokovic was 6-0 against Nadal, 4-1 against federer and 2-1 against Murray.
 

adil1972

Hall of Fame
stats dont lie, djokovic won 3 consecutive australian open

federer won 5 consecutive wimbledon and us open

djokovic no. 1 for 77 weeks
federer no. 1 for 302 weeks

federer won 17 slams
djokovic won 6 slams
 

Lukhas

Legend
Those who say that Federer's 2006 season was better than Djokovic's 2011 must remember that his head to head against '20 year old baby' Nadal was 2-4 that year. It can't be considered dominant season if you can't even dominate against your sole contender. So, Federer only dominated the likes of Baghdatis, Gonzalez, Roddick and Gasquet while Djokovic was 6-0 against Nadal, 4-1 against federer and 2-1 against Murray.
Like any of those were bad players at the time being. I wonder if people were watching tennis in the early/mid 2000's.
 

FreeBird

Legend
stats dont lie, djokovic won 3 consecutive australian open

federer won 5 consecutive wimbledon and us open

djokovic no. 1 for 77 weeks
federer no. 1 for 302 weeks


federer won 17 slams
djokovic won 6 slams

We are talking about dominating force in 2011 and not the overall achievements. If you want to add achievements then add one more stat to it.
Djokovic is 25 years old while Fed is 31 year old. Djokovic still has got a lot of time to accomplish more.
 

Deanjam

Professional
It's impossible to say unless you've seen every match played in the Open era, which no one has. Personally, I've more admiration for Federer as I prefer to watch his game more than Djokovic, but there's no way to say one was better than he other in different years. They never played each other in their respective primes, so it's all just subjective nonsense.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
stats dont lie, djokovic won 3 consecutive australian open

federer won 5 consecutive wimbledon and us open

djokovic no. 1 for 77 weeks
federer no. 1 for 302 weeks

federer won 17 slams
djokovic won 6 slams

The question isn't who has had the better career. There is obviously NO comparison between Fed and Djoker in that area.

The question is who attained a higher level of play, and my argument is that the level Nole reached in 2011 has never been reached before...
 

Nitish

Professional
Like any of those were bad players at the time being. I wonder if people were watching tennis in the early/mid 2000's.
In ten years time there ll be a new guy and people will be saying he is the best ever and current players are bad. Thats how it goes unfortunately.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Of course! Novak had to lose somewhere and Fed had the psychological edge going into that match, playing with a nothing to lose attitude.

At the USO, Fed played a brilliant match again, but he couldn't put away Novak in the clutch, and that is all that matters. The fact that Nole came back in the fifth set two match points down is testament to his indefatigable will!
Sassy is right.
 

Nitish

Professional
The question isn't who has had the better career. There is obviously NO comparison between Fed and Djoker in that area.

The question is who attained a higher level of play, and my argument is that the level Nole reached in 2011 has never been reached before...
Novak was playing at a high level for sure...but how come he struggled against post prime fed when he was beating nadal easily.Surely he would have struggled a lot more against 2006 fed.Its about match ups as well.If you are going to compare you have to compare against rest of the field
Novak 2011 71-6
Fed 2006 92-5

fed was better in 2006 than novak was in 2011.If you are talking about peak level of play safin should definitely be a part of the discussion.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.

How is Fed better on clay? He beat Djoker in a very tightly contested 2011 showdown on the clay but got a beatdown at RG 2012...
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Novak was playing at a high level for sure...but how come he struggled against post prime fed when he was beating nadal easily.Surely he would have struggled a lot more against 2006 fed.Its about match ups as well.If you are going to compare you have to compare against rest of the field
Novak 2011 71-6
Fed 2006 92-5

fed was better in 2006 than novak was in 2011.If you are talking about peak level of play safin should definitely be a part of the discussion.

I get annoyed when people point to the overall record and say that Fed's 92-5 trumps Novak's 71-6.

The important thing to remember here is that tennis basically dies down after the USO. The hard court indoor season is a snorefest compared to the rest of the year, and the year end championships is anticlimactic!

After the USO, Novak had gone a combined 10-1 against two of the greatest players ever (possibly the two greatest ever) and his overall record was around 62-2!!! His post USO campaign was meaningless and he obviously took his foot off the gas for the rest of the year.
 

Nitish

Professional
I get annoyed when people point to the overall record and say that Fed's 92-5 trumps Novak's 71-6.

The important thing to remember here is that tennis basically dies down after the USO. The hard court indoor season is a snorefest compared to the rest of the year, and the year end championships is anticlimactic!

After the USO, Novak had gone a combined 10-1 against two of the greatest players ever (possibly the two greatest ever) and his overall record was around 62-2!!! His post USO campaign was meaningless and he obviously took his foot off the gas for the rest of the year.
No it doesnt,Novak was not able to maintain his level throughout the year its as simple as that.
 

NEW_BORN

Hall of Fame
As far as Defensive capabilities go and all-round consistency off the ground, Djokovic 2011-2013 has indeed taken it to uncharted heights.

As for Offensive capabilities and all-round firepower off the ground, Federer 05-06 was unmatched.

Incidentally, Nadal 08 had the best raw athleticism ever witnessed.
 

timnz

Legend
Correct

Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.

Absolutely correct. Absolute Peak Djokovic can only beat past his prime Federer by 1 point. and lost to him in the French Open? That says everything.

Having said that it was a very impressive year by Djokovic. He managed to get the 10th best win/loss record of the Open era. Nothing to sneeze at. Where he was most impressive was in his domination of his rivals. I don't think anyone has done that since Laver in 1967 (and then Laver only did it in the main events).
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
Nadal was as great a force in 2010 as Djokovic was in 2011.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Nadal was as great a force in 2010 as Djokovic was in 2011.

Less titles and a worse win percentage. Djokovic also got to the semi's of the slam he didn't win unlike Nadal's quarter final. Djokovic's was better.
 

pds999

Hall of Fame
I think if 2010 Nadal played 2011 Djokovic it would be a fairly even split of wins, depending on the surface.
 

MonkeyBoy

Hall of Fame
Think about it, 3 slams, had a great winning percentage. Ended the year at #1.

What really does it for Djokovic is his ungodly win streak up until the French. If we exclude his latter year losses as being mainly due to injuries, we could go as far as to say his loss to Federer at the French was his only 'legit' loss in the entire year. (And that was an incredibly close match.)

Djokovic's 2011 6 - 0 streak against prime Nadal (across all surfaces) is one of the greatest accomplishments in tennis. It's hard to think of more consistent and convincing ownership of such a high calibre player.
 

Vish13

Semi-Pro
Absolutely correct. Absolute Peak Djokovic can only beat past his prime Federer by 1 point. and lost to him in the French Open? That says everything.

Having said that it was a very impressive year by Djokovic. He managed to get the 10th best win/loss record of the Open era. Nothing to sneeze at. Where he was most impressive was in his domination of his rivals. I don't think anyone has done that since Laver in 1967 (and then Laver only did it in the main events).

He beat Federer 4 times in 2011 including a straight sets victory at AO. Infact he was 6-1 against Federer starting from 2011 till WI 2012. What are you saying ??
 

syc23

Professional
No. A 2006 Federer would have given the 'prime 2011' Djokovic an absolute beasting on all surfaces - guaranteed.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
have you ever heard of match-ups? prime davydenko was owning rafa on hards but prim federer was owning davydenko everywhere
 

FreeBird

Legend
Absolutely correct. Absolute Peak Djokovic can only beat past his prime Federer by 1 point. and lost to him in the French Open? That says everything.

Having said that it was a very impressive year by Djokovic. He managed to get the 10th best win/loss record of the Open era. Nothing to sneeze at. Where he was most impressive was in his domination of his rivals. I don't think anyone has done that since Laver in 1967 (and then Laver only did it in the main events).

Victories and defeats are part and parcel of game. You take two matches and forget the thrashing that Federer received in AO. Going by your logic, 2005 Peak federer lost Masters cup final to Nalbadian so Nalbadian's peak game is a better than Federer's according to you. You can't have straight record against everybody. Federer was also beaten consistently by Nadal in 2005-06.
Tell me one player who defeated Nole consistently in 2011. None. :mad:
 

FreeBird

Legend
No. A 2006 Federer would have given the 'prime 2011' Djokovic an absolute beasting on all surfaces - guaranteed.

Like he thrashes Nadal everytime they meet. 2006 Federer could not even pass through Baby Ralph and you are talking about Prime Djokovic.:evil:
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I get annoyed when people point to the overall record and say that Fed's 92-5 trumps Novak's 71-6.

The important thing to remember here is that tennis basically dies down after the USO. The hard court indoor season is a snorefest compared to the rest of the year, and the year end championships is anticlimactic!

After the USO, Novak had gone a combined 10-1 against two of the greatest players ever (possibly the two greatest ever) and his overall record was around 62-2!!! His post USO campaign was meaningless and he obviously took his foot off the gas for the rest of the year.
i do not agree. the WTF was important to djokovic otherwise he would not have showed up. if you want proof look at last year's final which djokovic won
 

timnz

Legend
He beat Federer 4 times in 2011 including a straight sets victory at AO. Infact he was 6-1 against Federer starting from 2011 till WI 2012. What are you saying ??

I said that his most impressive aspect was his domination of his rivals - the stat you quote backs that up. The fact remains though in two key matches in the year - he lost to Federer in one and in the other only won by the skin of his teeth (so when you think about it, he was one point away from being just a two slam winner that year). He did win that point in the US Open - all credit to him. However, I was expressing the view about how some who think that Djokovic's 2011 level was so much higher than Federer's peak just doesn't stack up.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
Like he thrashes Nadal everytime they meet. 2006 Federer could not even pass through Baby Ralph and you are talking about Prime Djokovic.:evil:
federer matches up better with djokovic than with nadal. their contests would be close no doubt but federer would still edge him imo.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
well i would say that prime fed vs prime djoker would go like this:
AO: fed would not touch djoker there.
Wimby: djoker would not touch fed there
RG: they would split their wins
USO: again they would split the wins bu i think out of 11 matches fed would edge 6-5. let's not forget that he was literally 2 points away from a 5-0 adv instead of 3-2 at the USO.
 

uliks

Banned
Absolutely correct. Absolute Peak Djokovic can only beat past his prime Federer by 1 point. and lost to him in the French Open? That says everything.

Having said that it was a very impressive year by Djokovic. He managed to get the 10th best win/loss record of the Open era. Nothing to sneeze at. Where he was most impressive was in his domination of his rivals. I don't think anyone has done that since Laver in 1967 (and then Laver only did it in the main events).

Absolute Peak Federer can only beat baby almost fetus Nadal on his favorite surface while needing some massive choke job from young spaniard. and lost to him left, right and center? That says everything
 

syc23

Professional
Like he thrashes Nadal everytime they meet. 2006 Federer could not even pass through Baby Ralph and you are talking about Prime Djokovic.:evil:

We're talking about Fed v Djok here not Rafa.

So how do you explain past prime Fed beating Djokovic at RG '11 then?
 

xan

Hall of Fame
We're talking about Fed v Djok here not Rafa.

So how do you explain past prime Fed beating Djokovic at RG '11 then?

federer played maybe his best clay court match ever. djokovic not so much. besides his winning streak had to end somewhere.

and what does it have to do with fed beating djokovic at his prime. its like federer never lost matches to his rivals in his prime??? should we call them better coz they managed to beat fereder when he was playing his "very best"???

cut the crap. thanks.
 

FreeBird

Legend
federer played maybe his best clay court match ever. djokovic not so much. besides his winning streak had to end somewhere.

and what does it have to do with fed beating djokovic at his prime. its like federer never lost matches to his rivals in his prime??? should we call them better coz they managed to beat fereder when he was playing his "very best"???

cut the crap. thanks.

We're talking about Fed v Djok here not Rafa.

So how do you explain past prime Fed beating Djokovic at RG '11 then?

I think Xan has already conveyed my thoughts. So syc23, in your imaginery world, Fed's record in 2005 and 2006 is 81-0 and 92-0. Is n't it?
 

pds999

Hall of Fame
Like he thrashes Nadal everytime they meet. 2006 Federer could not even pass through Baby Ralph and you are talking about Prime Djokovic.:evil:

I wouldn't say he thrashes him every time they play? Before Sunday, Rafa had won the last three and leads the head to head fairly comfortably.
 

FreeBird

Legend
I wouldn't say he thrashes him every time they play? Before Sunday, Rafa had won the last three and leads the head to head fairly comfortably.

What's wrong with u? Please read the posts and understand them before commenting.There is a certain thing in world which smart people call 'Sarcasm'. :twisted:
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
I have studied tapes of Prime Sampras, Prime Fed, Prime Rafa, and Prime Novak and must conclude that Novak in 2011 reached heights that no one ever has.

His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.

Moreover, 2011 Novak beat FAR better competition (including Fed, Nadal, and Murray) than 2005 Fed.
Peak Hewitt, Roddick, some appearances from Davydenko, Nalbandian and Gonzalez, and Safin. Federer's competition is at least equal or above Murray. Nadal was around then too but was still a baby, he had the game to trouble on hardcourts by 2007 though but he lost to Gonzalez at the AO. Beat Federer almost every time they met though.

Hewitt had the potential to have a great run at the AO in 2004, but Federer was pretty much in Godmode during their match and beat Hewitt easily after he took the first set. Hewitt reformed and came into the AO 2005 ranked and seeded much higher than the year previous. This paid off, as he avoided Federer and fought tooth and nail against prime Roddick in the semifinals, winning in 4 sets. This set up a final against Marat Safin.
Hewitt fell off after AO 2006, but he still made some deep runs after his decline. Made the QFs of 2006 Wimbledon and the 2006 US Open. **** poor performance in master tournaments though. Fell off for a good period after 2006-2008, had one last good run at Wimbledon in 2009 and it looks like he is pretty much done now.

Safin is an interesting case. Had a wonderful run to the final in 2004, but lacked the fitness to take the title away from Federer. Federer also played outstanding tennis and made it very difficult for Safin to get into the match. Safin came back in 2005, seeded again after being ranked 86 in the world in the '04 final, he came into the semifinals of '05 AO seeded 4th and ranked 4th in the world and totally on his game. He just managed to take Federer out in a very, very tight 5th set.

Roddick was on his game from 2004-2007, those were probably his best years on tour. After 2010 though, Roddick clearly lost his edge and was in no way a contender for the slams. Roddick never had a chance at a slam during the Federer era as his game did not match up well against Federer and he declined faster than and his talent was much less than Federer's.

Davydenko had 5 great years from 2005-2010, made it deep in several tournaments/slams. Never made a slam final though. Did not have the mental game to take Federer out whenever he met him in a slam.

Nalbandian had a great run at the AO in 2006, but he was a mental midget and lost to Baghdatis. Could have been his next shot at a major.

Murray played great up until the finals of the 2011 AO but lost miserably to Djokovic. Equal to say, Federer against Davydenko in any slam.

Djokovic lost to past his prime Federer at the 2011 French Open. Made it up at the 2011 Wimbledon Championships by taking Nadal out in the final, though. Nadal was in his second US Open final and lost this one to Djokovic over a hardly contested final, and that is something Federer did lack, competition that could push him in slam finals.
Federer had more variety, but Djokovic did have more competition.
 
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