Was 2011 Djokovic the greatest tennis force we've ever seen?

tacou

G.O.A.T.
Novak in 2011 is undoubtedly a force of nature, but like anything in tennis, it's hard to compare. Would Novak been able to have played such a balanced game when there were 4 distinct surfaces? Would his retrieving skills be as effective on fast grass or indoor carpet?

I don't see the point trying to answer but I'd say no. He might be the greatest product of his era/its conditions though
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Yeah, just no. He was very impressive though, no doubt.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Peak Federer would beat Djokovic more often than not at the US Open and virtually always at Wimbledon. They'd split clay and Novak would have an edge on slow hardcourts.

So no he wasn't the greatest tennis force ever...
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Until the USO, yes. Then the force deflated ;)
I'm gonna side with Djokovic and admit I preferred his 2012 season, it was more even. There is a satisfaction in remaining competitive throughout. In 2011, Novak was done and dusted 3 months before the season ended.
 
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Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.

Djokovic smashed Federer out in straights at the AO that year.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Djokovic handled Ralph on the slower surfaces better than Fed ever has,thanks to an unexploitable BH.
 

merwy

G.O.A.T.
well i would say that prime fed vs prime djoker would go like this:
AO: fed would not touch djoker there.
Wimby: djoker would not touch fed there
RG: they would split their wins
USO: again they would split the wins bu i think out of 11 matches fed would edge 6-5. let's not forget that he was literally 2 points away from a 5-0 adv instead of 3-2 at the USO.

I don't think the current surfaces of AO and Wimbledon differ that much that two great players will not be able to touch one another on them.

I'm really leaning towards saying prime Federer is a better player than 2011 Djokovic. If you watch those old videos of him.. damn.. he was amazing.
But on the other hand surfaces were a lot faster back then and maybe he "looked" better because his shots went faster and perhaps his winners back then wouldn't be winners today, especially against Djokovic. I don't know, hard to compare 2 different times.. I'll just say that they were very close together but if I had to give someone the edge it would surely be Federer before Djokovic.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Absolutely correct. Absolute Peak Djokovic can only beat past his prime Federer by 1 point. and lost to him in the French Open? That says everything.

Having said that it was a very impressive year by Djokovic. He managed to get the 10th best win/loss record of the Open era. Nothing to sneeze at. Where he was most impressive was in his domination of his rivals. I don't think anyone has done that since Laver in 1967 (and then Laver only did it in the main events).

He went 4-1 against Fed and straight-setted him at the AO and Dubai!! Fed's one victory against Novak was in a tightly-contested classic match!
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Peak Hewitt, Roddick, some appearances from Davydenko, Nalbandian and Gonzalez, and Safin. Federer's competition is at least equal or above Murray. Nadal was around then too but was still a baby, he had the game to trouble on hardcourts by 2007 though but he lost to Gonzalez at the AO. Beat Federer almost every time they met though.

Hewitt had the potential to have a great run at the AO in 2004, but Federer was pretty much in Godmode during their match and beat Hewitt easily after he took the first set. Hewitt reformed and came into the AO 2005 ranked and seeded much higher than the year previous. This paid off, as he avoided Federer and fought tooth and nail against prime Roddick in the semifinals, winning in 4 sets. This set up a final against Marat Safin.
Hewitt fell off after AO 2006, but he still made some deep runs after his decline. Made the QFs of 2006 Wimbledon and the 2006 US Open. **** poor performance in master tournaments though. Fell off for a good period after 2006-2008, had one last good run at Wimbledon in 2009 and it looks like he is pretty much done now.

Safin is an interesting case. Had a wonderful run to the final in 2004, but lacked the fitness to take the title away from Federer. Federer also played outstanding tennis and made it very difficult for Safin to get into the match. Safin came back in 2005, seeded again after being ranked 86 in the world in the '04 final, he came into the semifinals of '05 AO seeded 4th and ranked 4th in the world and totally on his game. He just managed to take Federer out in a very, very tight 5th set.

Roddick was on his game from 2004-2007, those were probably his best years on tour. After 2010 though, Roddick clearly lost his edge and was in no way a contender for the slams. Roddick never had a chance at a slam during the Federer era as his game did not match up well against Federer and he declined faster than and his talent was much less than Federer's.

Davydenko had 5 great years from 2005-2010, made it deep in several tournaments/slams. Never made a slam final though. Did not have the mental game to take Federer out whenever he met him in a slam.

Nalbandian had a great run at the AO in 2006, but he was a mental midget and lost to Baghdatis. Could have been his next shot at a major.

Murray played great up until the finals of the 2011 AO but lost miserably to Djokovic. Equal to say, Federer against Davydenko in any slam.

Djokovic lost to past his prime Federer at the 2011 French Open. Made it up at the 2011 Wimbledon Championships by taking Nadal out in the final, though. Nadal was in his second US Open final and lost this one to Djokovic over a hardly contested final, and that is something Federer did lack, competition that could push him in slam finals.
Federer had more variety, but Djokovic did have more competition.


Djokovic had to play against two of the greatest players of ALL TIME! Federer only had Baby Rafa (and was already having fits against him)!

Federer dominated a bunch of GOOD players but none of the guys you mentioned was great.

Murray could beat most of Fed's competition. He's a different caliber player than Hewitt or Nalbandian...
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Peak Federer would beat Djokovic more often than not at the US Open and virtually always at Wimbledon. They'd split clay and Novak would have an edge on slow hardcourts.

So no he wasn't the greatest tennis force ever...

Ok, well how do you explain the fact that Novak handled peak Nadal at Wimbledon pretty easily (he did of course get a breadstick in set 2). We can still say Fed 07 was in his prime and he could not break Nadal's serve in that match until the 5th set and we all know that Nadal had real chances to win Wimby 07 in the 5th set (several break points on Fed early in the set).

Just because Fed won a tightly-contested match on grass against Novak last year we cannot automatically assume that he would dominate him at Wimbledon...
 

spinovic

Hall of Fame
Another question with no "right" answer.

Djokovic's 2011 is without question in this discussion. That's about all I can say about it.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Ok, well how do you explain the fact that Novak handled peak Nadal at Wimbledon pretty easily (he did of course get a breadstick in set 2). We can still say Fed 07 was in his prime and he could not break Nadal's serve in that match until the 5th set and we all know that Nadal had real chances to win Wimby 07 in the 5th set (several break points on Fed early in the set).

Just because Fed won a tightly-contested match on grass against Novak last year we cannot automatically assume that he would dominate him at Wimbledon...

Nadal played much better in 07 than he did in 11 on grass. If you think that was one of the best matches from Nadal on grass then you're soley mistaken. Djokovic also just plain matches up better with Nadal than Federer does.

Their Wimbledon semi final wasn't tightly contested really. Federer never looked in doubt. Federer is a much better grass court player than Djokovic and he would dominate him at Wimbledon.
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
According to some Fed fanatics here:

Peak Hewitt> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Safin> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Roddick>Peak Djoker, peak nadal

Why bother arguing with them? Just accept fed fought with the best out there and give them the satisfaction!
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
According to some Fed fanatics here:

Peak Hewitt> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Safin> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Roddick>Peak Djoker, peak nadal

Why bother arguing with them? Just accept fed fought with the best out there and give them the satisfaction!

No one has said that troll. But keeping making up opinions then mocking them to make yourself look like a serious poster.
 
No, McEnroe '84 was. If he wouldn't have gotten distracted by a photographer at the French Open, he would have won the CY GS that year.
 
Still McEnroe had a better year (1984). AO wasn't what it is now which lead him not to bother even playing it. Djoker dont play doubles which shows the intensity and endurance of past players. Djoker might have won 3 slams (Singles) vs 2 mac and 1 wimbly in doubles.

And that area had greats like Lendl, Borg, Connors, just Djoker is against Rafa and Roger

My 2 cents :)
 

FreeBird

Legend
According to some Fed fanatics here:

Peak Hewitt> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Safin> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Roddick>Peak Djoker, peak nadal

Why bother arguing with them? Just accept fed fought with the best out there and give them the satisfaction!

No one has said that troll. But keeping making up opinions then mocking them to make yourself look like a serious poster.

That's what some of the people here are saying. Read the whole discussion. According to their them,Fed beat Peak Djokovic in 2011 that is why peak Federer is better than Peak Djokovic. By that logic, Peak Fed (2005) was beaten by Safin concluding that Peak Safin is better than peak Fed. Be rational in what you want to defend rather than giving some lame arguments. :mad:
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
No one has said that troll. But keeping making up opinions then mocking them to make yourself look like a serious poster.

Do you even know the meaning of troll?

If you are old enough and read threads on this board, then here are a few facts:

1. You say anything against Fed, you are considered troll
2.Fed has been aging since 2008(age 26) and was not peaking anymore. He is just so good to win slams at age of 27 (FO)
3.When 29 year old fed beat Novak at FO semis 2011, it is considered the greatest because he was already aging since 2008.
4.other athletes like Djoker, Nadal & Murray are on Peds since they can go for back to back 5 setters.

actual fact is Fed is a wussy who cannot handle pressure. He has the worst 5 set record and obviously cannot overcome his biggest nemesis.
 

Apun94

Hall of Fame
Just no. Past his Prime 29 year old Fed ended Djokovic's insane win streak at RG 2011. Past his prime 30 year old Federer was owning Djokovic at USO 2011 holding several MPs before choking.

Djokovic 2011 was definitely impressive, but Federer at his best is still better on ALL surfaces besides maybe slow HC.

The problem for Fed in his later age is not that he cant play at his peak, rather that he cant consistently play at it. He can still play great matches, but they are few nowadays. The matches you are talking about were the best matches Fed played throughout the 2 years. During his prime he could sustain that level fr longer periods of time.
Overall, prime Nole trumps prime Fed by just a bit.
 
The problem for Fed in his later age is not that he cant play at his peak, rather that he cant consistently play at it. He can still play great matches, but they are few nowadays. The matches you are talking about were the best matches Fed played throughout the 2 years. During his prime he could sustain that level fr longer periods of time.
Overall, prime Nole trumps prime Fed by just a bit.
How does Prime Nole trump Prime Fed? Give me a break.

Grass - Prime Federer, easily
Fast HC - Prime Federer, easily
Clay - More competitive here but Prime Federer comes out on top, just look at FO 2011
Slow HC - Competitive but Djokovic takes the edge

Peak Federer > Peak Djokovic on the majority of surfaces. :)
 
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DRII

G.O.A.T.
I have studied tapes of Prime Sampras, Prime Fed, Prime Rafa, and Prime Novak and must conclude that Novak in 2011 reached heights that no one ever has.

His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.

Moreover, 2011 Novak beat FAR better competition (including Fed, Nadal, and Murray) than 2005 Fed.


Absolutely not!

people forget how close Nole was at losing several matches in 2011. Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Agassi have all had more dominating wins (average and agregate) in their best streaks than Nole had in his great 2011...
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Absolutely not!

people forget how close Nole was at losing several matches in 2011. Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Agassi have all had more dominating wins (average and agregate) in their best streaks than Nole had in his great 2011...

But doesn't that show the mental strength, the will to battle through and beat tough competition. If anything, I think his wins over Nadal in Miami, Murray in Rome among others shows that when he is good he can be unplayable. But when the other player is playing at an incredibly high level, he can still go toe to toe with them.

And lets not forget, he was playing the maximum amount of matches in each tournament during that run, run the table in AO, then beating Federer on fast court in Dubai, before the Nadal saga. It was epic.
 

uliks

Banned
Absolutely not!

people forget how close Nole was at losing several matches in 2011. Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Agassi have all had more dominating wins (average and agregate) in their best streaks than Nole had in his great 2011...

Well apart of that Murray match in Rome, Nadal in Miami and maybe Belluci in Madrid i think he was pretty match dominating his opponents. 3 close calls out of 43, i think he was doing pretty ok by anyone's standards.
 
M

monfed

Guest
nuff said!
why do they ban a poster of your caliber is beyond me :confused:

Kind words,thank you,I appreciate it.
I got temp banned for using a particular word that is forbidden(you know the "t@rd" variations to describe a certain fanbase).

Happy to be back , I just really wanna get along(can't always please everyone though),especially with Nadal fans. :lol:
 
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Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
According to some Fed fanatics here:

Peak Hewitt> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Safin> Peak Djoker, peak nadal
Peak Roddick>Peak Djoker, peak nadal

Why bother arguing with them? Just accept fed fought with the best out there and give them the satisfaction!

Exactly! I get a good laugh when I read that stuff too!
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
How does Prime Nole trump Prime Fed? Give me a break.

Grass - Prime Federer, easily
Fast HC - Prime Federer, easily
Clay - More competitive here but Prime Federer comes out on top, just look at FO 2011
Slow HC - Competitive but Djokovic takes the edge

Peak Federer > Peak Djokovic on the majority of surfaces. :)

What about FO 2012? Neither player was playing their best but Fed got rolled! And 2012 Fed was arguably stronger than 2012 Djokovic (1.5 version)
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Roger 92-5 by miles

It is a very impressive record but you might compare it to a college football team that plays in a weak conference!

Nole played and beat the very best in 2011! Fed's year was no doubt amazing but he wasn't playing prime Nadal and the GOAT in the process...
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Ok, well how do you explain the fact that Novak handled peak Nadal at Wimbledon pretty easily (he did of course get a breadstick in set 2). We can still say Fed 07 was in his prime and he could not break Nadal's serve in that match until the 5th set and we all know that Nadal had real chances to win Wimby 07 in the 5th set (several break points on Fed early in the set).

Just because Fed won a tightly-contested match on grass against Novak last year we cannot automatically assume that he would dominate him at Wimbledon...

federer broke nadal in the very first service game in wimbledon 2007 final

2007 wimbledon final nadal >>> 2011 wimbledon final nadal ..

federer's win over novak wasn't that tight (it could really have been 6-1 in the 4th ) and it wasn't even close to the very best of federer. yes, he would absolutely dominate him at his peak on grass ....
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
What about FO 2012? Neither player was playing their best but Fed got rolled! And 2012 Fed was arguably stronger than 2012 Djokovic (1.5 version)

djokovic was much closer to his best and played some pretty good tennis in the RG 2012 semi , federer was just downright mediocre.
 
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NadalAgassi

Guest
Nadal's best grass tennis was 2008 first, 2007 a close second, and 2010 a distant third. One cant compare playing Nadal on grass in 2011 to earlier years. He was still very good on grass, but already on decline on the surface, although still would have won another Wimbledon if it werent for Djokovic 2.0 (the typical Djokovic, even the current one probably loses to even 2011 Nadal on grass). Djokovic is underrated on this forum compared to Federer in many instances, but on grass there is no comparision. Unless Djokovic wins another couple Wimbledons, especialy having practically no competition with Federer old, Nadal struggling to keep his previous grass form, and Murray struggling with the home country pressure, he isnt even close to prime Nadal's grass level, let alone Federer.
 

timnz

Legend
McEnroe at the AO

Still McEnroe had a better year (1984). AO wasn't what it is now which lead him not to bother even playing it. Djoker dont play doubles which shows the intensity and endurance of past players. Djoker might have won 3 slams (Singles) vs 2 mac and 1 wimbly in doubles.

And that area had greats like Lendl, Borg, Connors, just Djoker is against Rafa and Roger

My 2 cents :)

And yet he played the AO in 1983 and 1985.
 
But won nothing on clay.

Wimbledon
US Open
Australian Open
French Open Runners-Up
Tennis Masters Cup
Indian Wells Masters
Miami Masters
Canada Masters
Madrid Masters

I'd say he did well by himself. Wouldn't you? :)

2006+French+Open+Day+Fifteen+2sIH2WRUssAl.jpg
 

xan

Hall of Fame
ok dno why people bother. you are correct. Federer is the best ever, and has 'x' best ever when on his best ever. which is only when he wins, and if his fans agree to it.
gonna go run along now and by meself a fed poster and a candle.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
I have studied tapes of Prime Sampras, Prime Fed, Prime Rafa, and Prime Novak and must conclude that Novak in 2011 reached heights that no one ever has.

His movement, defensive skills, return, and consistency off both wings are greater than anything Fed produced, even during his prime.

Moreover, 2011 Novak beat FAR better competition (including Fed, Nadal, and Murray) than 2005 Fed.

If Djok's level in 2011 was height nobody else had reached, what do you call Fed's level at the FO semi?

I agree Novak's 2011 was an amazing year. But the main part of that record was the shocking total dominance over Nadal. If we include AO12, they met 7 times, all in finals. And Djok won every single time. Can anyone think of such an utter dominance of among the very top for such a long stretch?
 
If Djok's level in 2011 was height nobody else had reached, what do you call Fed's level at the FO semi?

I agree Novak's 2011 was an amazing year. But the main part of that record was the shocking total dominance over Nadal. If we include AO12, they met 7 times, all in finals. And Djok won every single time. Can anyone think of such an utter dominance of among the very top for such a long stretch?

Dominance against the field is what wins you titles. And 92-5 is much better than 70-6. Particularly when you consider that Federer even made it to the finals of the only Grand Slam he didn't win that year.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
If Djok's level in 2011 was height nobody else had reached, what do you call Fed's level at the FO semi?

I agree Novak's 2011 was an amazing year. But the main part of that record was the shocking total dominance over Nadal. If we include AO12, they met 7 times, all in finals. And Djok won every single time. Can anyone think of such an utter dominance of among the very top for such a long stretch?

Novak was beaten by the GOAT at the FO. It just showed that he was not invincible...
I think Novak was under much more pressure in that match than Fed. Nobody was giving Fed much of a chance going in and all of the pressure was on Novak. If you rematch the match on Youtube you'll recognize that it basically came down to two tiebreaks. Had Novak won those two tiebreaks he would have likely gone on to win the CYGS in 2011...
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Wimbledon
US Open
Australian Open
French Open Runners-Up
Tennis Masters Cup
Indian Wells Masters
Miami Masters
Canada Masters
Madrid Masters

I'd say he did well by himself. Wouldn't you? :)

Novak 2011:
Australian Open
Dubai
Indian Wells
Miami
Madrid
Rome
Wimbledon
Toronto
US Open

But it isn't just the fact that he won these titles, it's that he had to beat better players (namely prime Nadal) in most of these finals!
 
Novak was beaten by the GOAT at the FO. It just showed that he was not invincible...
I think Novak was under much more pressure in that match than Fed. Nobody was giving Fed much of a chance going in and all of the pressure was on Novak. If you rematch the match on Youtube you'll recognize that it basically came down to two tiebreaks. Had Novak won those two tiebreaks he would have likely gone on to win the CYGS in 2011...

Yes, it was an incredibly close match. But then again, so was their TMC final last year. It's what you would expect at that level.
 
Wimbledon
US Open
Australian Open
French Open Runners-Up
Tennis Masters Cup
Indian Wells Masters
Miami Masters
Canada Masters
Madrid Masters

I'd say he did well by himself. Wouldn't you? :)

Novak 2011:
Australian Open
Dubai
Indian Wells
Miami
Madrid
Rome
Wimbledon
Toronto
US Open

But it isn't just the fact that he won these titles, it's that he had to beat better players (namely prime Nadal) in most of these finals!

Let's compare, and let's stick to the facts.


Grand Slams:
Federer - 3, Djokovic - 3. Federer performed better at the 4th Slam.

Tennis Masters Cup:
Federer did much better.

Masters Series:
Federer - 4, Djokovic - 5. Djokovic performed better.

Other Tournaments:
Federer - 4, Djokovic - 2. Federer performed better.

Season Record:
92-5 >> 70-6


Now, as for the strength of the fields, that's highly debatable. Djokovic's wins over Nadal were very impressive, no doubt about that, but his losses towards the end of the year were plain bad. And beating 29 year-old Federer who hadn't won a Slam in an year isn't that special. Federer, on the other hand, lost to two people all year. That's right, two people all year. 3 of them to Nadal on Clay. And he only failed to make the final in one of all the tournaments he entered that year. That is astonishing consistency AND dominance. Something Djokovic didn't even come close to.
 

Fredrik

Rookie
Djokovic can be grateful that he's playing a weak field; Old Fed, declining Nadal and mental midget murray w/o a forehand.

That will be the jist of the discussion 8-10 years from now, IF Djokovic surpasses Fed's achievements and some up and coming hotshot is considered better than he ever was by a bunch of kids on a message board...

On Topic: peak level of play. Anyone picking Djokovic in this respect cannot have watched proper, attacking tennis. Peak defense: he might be tied with Fed, but I give the Edge to Fed.
 
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