tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
13 Masters 1000 titles, not bad.
The Muzziah does it! 41th title. Good win, and tournament.
Murray too good today.
*Gong*Not just today, he's been too good this whole season. 10 finals across all surfaces, played slam finals on all three surfaces, undefeated on grass, undefeated on Asian swing, Olympics GOAT, best clay season of his life...if anyone should dethrone Novak, it should be the fourth member of the big four, imo.
Not just today, he's been too good this whole season. 10 finals across all surfaces, played slam finals on all three surfaces, undefeated on grass, undefeated on Asian swing, Olympics GOAT, best clay season of his life...if anyone should dethrone Novak, it should be the fourth member of the big four, imo.
Well, congrats to Andy on his 3rd Shanghai title, 13th Masters title and 41st title (he now ties Stefan Edberg for most titles won in the open era). Amazing to think he won Beijing and Shanghai back to back without dropping a single set!! (It is also the first Masters title he has won without having to face a top 10 player. Little old stats nerd, me).
Haha. Djokovic has the more aggressive game. The wind defanged him a bit and Murray is an incredibly crafty player. It was a huge advantage for Murray. I'd say the same thing of the 2015 US Open final. The cool rain delayed final completely favored Djokovic and was doom for Federer. Federer played amazingly well in the slow conditions, but ultimately the better returner prevailed. That match would have been very different on a sunny warm afternoon versus a cool evening.The wind blew on both sides of the court and the conditions were exactly the same for both players. The match went to 5 sets and Djokovic had every chance to win it. He ran out of gas in the 5th set more than Murray did and that's why he lost and Murray won. Nothing to do with any so called advantages or disadvantages from the wind or any other weather conditions. Extremely disappointed that you are still peddling this nonsense. Murray has beaten Djokovic many times on hardcourt, that US Open match was not the only one. He was ready to win it, that's all.
With out one of the big 3 its lower because TTW is mainly player fans and not fans of the whole game. Not many from General Pro show up in Pro matches if their favorite is out. Shanghai is in the middle of the night for American fans.When was the last time there were only three pages for a Masters final?
His hard court play has been its best starting this Summer in a long time, but its his vulnerability that's cost him on serve. Murray has developed a dominating first serve game on clay the last few years and its made a huge difference. We'll see how he does in 2017 assuming his good form makes it to the clay season. This year Daddyray was still bringing his game back after a bit of time off, but 2015 Murray won 54.7% of his clay court points and was incredible on serve. Murray is the early favorite to win French Open if Djokovic does not get back to Nole slam level.You are at least right about Murray being a better grass player, which has been true his whole career. I'm not ready to hype his clay-play. His return on hard is a bit higher than on grass, which is true of all players who compete well on all surfaces. But he won almost 91% of his service games on grass this year, and he's been over 90% 6 different years.
His service on hard is horrible in comparison. He doesn't look like a grass player, and maybe in other eras he would not have been, but for sure grass is his best surface.
Hands down...
I'm not convinced about clay though. He did well the last two years, but I think he's better on hard.
Because of the ATP stats problem I've been slow to look at stats this year, but Tennis Abstract has him with very close to the same % of points as the ATP. I can't check the sums for TA, but let's assume that their numbers are right. That would show that Murray really is winning over 60% of games. His play would reflect that.His hard court play has been its best starting this Summer in a long time, but its his vulnerability that's cost him on serve.
Unlike you I look at % of games won on serve as by far the most important stat on serves. Points should be in line with games, and they usually are. I look for a balance of 1st and 2nd stats, and I look at balance of points in number. For Murray's career around 59% of his service points on clay have been on 1st serve. With around 40% of service points on 2nd serve, which is typical for clay, 2nd serve becomes hugely important. Murray is just under 50% for his career on clay for 2nd serve points, which is horrible. It was around 52% this year. If Murray has a chance at a clay slam it is because the decline of Fed and Nadal, mostly Nadal, has left a huge vacuum.Murray has developed a dominating first serve game on clay the last few years and its made a huge difference. We'll see how he does in 2017 assuming his good form makes it to the clay season. This year Daddyray was still bringing his game back after a bit of time off, but 2015 Murray won 54.7% of his clay court points and was incredible on serve. Murray is the early favorite to win French Open if Djokovic does not get back to Nole slam level.
Murray is winning 67% of his serve points this year versus 65% for his career, how is his serving comparatively weak?Because of the ATP stats problem I've been slow to look at stats this year, but Tennis Abstract has him with very close to the same % of points as the ATP. I can't check the sums for TA, but let's assume that their numbers are right. That would show that Murray really is winning over 60% of games. His play would reflect that.
I think Murray is very strong on hard this year in spite of his comparatively weak serving.
Unlike you I look at % of games won on serve as by far the most important stat on serves. Points should be in line with games, and they usually are. I look for a balance of 1st and 2nd stats, and I look at balance of points in number. For Murray's career around 59% of his service points on clay have been on 1st serve. With around 40% of service points on 2nd serve, which is typical for clay, 2nd serve becomes hugely important. Murray is just under 50% for his career on clay for 2nd serve points, which is horrible. It was around 52% this year. If Murray has a chance at a clay slam it is because the decline of Fed and Nadal, mostly Nadal, has left a huge vacuum.
If you look at only 1st serve, Murray is mostly better than Nadal on clay, career and yearly. Now, ask yourself how much sense that makes. Answer: None.
You're looking at the wrong stats. Nadal was over 70% of all serves on 1st serve for ratio for most of his career. That means that 70% of all his serves were 1st serves. So his lower 1st serve % was more potent. For the roughly 30% of 2nd serves he has had to serve he was around 56% or higher, as high as 58.4% in 2008. Around 58% in 2010 and 2012.
You could possibly weight 1st serve in a DR fashion, giving a boost to a player who is serving the same % but higher on 1st serve. But if you're going mainly on 1st serve, that's where I totally disagree with you.
Murray the favorite next year at RG? Only because there is a vacuum on clay right now, which may be filled. Nadal looks finished right now, and he may be, but on one now can touch what he did in his prime. I think clay next year is an open field.
Yikes. I wrote a lot. Would you please quote me in the future?Murray is winning 67% of his serve points this year versus 65% for his career, how is his serving comparatively weak?
As close as Novak came to beating Nadal in the past it is clear that someone playing on a very high level always had a chance to take out even Nadal in one match.Murray was not at his best starting the clay season. End of 2016 and 2015 clay are close. Murray won 67.1% of his serve points in 2015 on clay which is higher than any players career average plus he has an excellent return. Nobody in the history of tennis would have beaten Nadal except in the rarest of circumstances at the French Open. Murray and Djokovic in 2015 would have had a chance against Nadal, more than a chance. If Djokovic is not as his best Murray is a clear and strong favorite to win the French Open.