2018 Shanghai SF - (1) Federer vs. (13.) Ćorić

[ACE of Hearts]

Once again this guy loses knowing Djokovic is waiting for him in the final. They shouldn’t put him in his draws anymore.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

If Federer continues to go down this road he should call it quits. I don’t see the motivation or anything. 2019 should be his final swan song.

 

[veroniquem]

But a bit of push back: Servebots win most of their service games when nothing else works, as obvious from a guy like Karlovic. These are the players who end up amazingly close to 50% of points and close to 50% of games won.

https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/ivo-karlovic/k336/player-stats

Just estimate, 92% of service games, 9% of return games for around 50% of games. You can expect a net gain of more than 1 point per game from serves that never get touched, and that's after subtracting DFs.

That figure for Fed is less than half of that. It's not nearly as extreme as Nadal, obviously, but even Nadal has won 85% of all his service games on clay for his career.

And Fed, with his "almost servebot" serve? The same, 85%. You can't separate all court skills from the serve. Nadal, as good as he is on clay, would not have all those titles on clay without suffocating people serving games, and he does that applying all his defensive skills behind the serve.

When either Nadal or Fed - and this includes Djokovic too - falter on the return, it moves right into the service game, and even if the serve is working pretty well most of the time, when it beings to falter these ATGs depend on defensive skills to pull out service games.

Fed's service games stats on hard:
2018: #1 with 92.86%
2017: #3 with 90.51% (top 2 are Isner and Anderson)
2015: #4 with 91.88% (behind Karlovic, Raonic, Isner)
2014: #3 with 90.24% (behind Karlovic and Isner)

Fed has to servebot because his return game has taken a nosedive this year. (#18). The serve has always been his strong point but the older he gets, the more crucial it becomes.
(I fail to see the relevance of clay in this discussion. Fed doesn't even play clay anymore!)

 

[veroniquem]

And 90+ % in SG won is INSANELY high. To me, Fed is one of the best servers ever on hard. Players who got 90% + SG won on hard court for most seasons:

1- 9 times: KARLOVIC (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016) and FEDERER (2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018)
3- 8 times: ISNER (2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018) and RODDICK (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010)
5- 7 times: SAMPRAS (1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000)
6- 5 times: RAONIC (2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016)
7- twice: KYRGIOS (2017, 2018)

Anderson, Tsonga, Johansson, Agassi and Rusedski have managed it once in their career. Nadal and Djoko, never. The end.
So, Fed doesn't servebot??? Look at the company he keeps. I beg to differ.

 

[TennisFan97068]

Fed's serve is what has kept him in the game so long. Look at the stats. He lives and dies by the serve now.

Exactly.
His return game since 2013 has been subpar and he is increasingly dependant on his serve.

 

[clayqueen]

Fed has clearly hit that wall that Agassi spoke about. Agassi said that when you get to a certain age, your level will fall off of a cliff quickly.

When Rafa was sidelined for 7 months in 2012/3 Agassi said it would take him ages to get his form back, but he ended the year as #1

Poor Roger can take some solace in this.

An average of one a year!!!!!!!!!

 

[Red Rick]

And 90+ % in SG won is INSANELY high. To me, Fed is one of the best servers ever on hard. Players who got 90% + SG won on hard court for most seasons:

1- 9 times: KARLOVIC (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016) and FEDERER (2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018)
3- 8 times: ISNER (2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018) and RODDICK (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010)
5- 7 times: SAMPRAS (1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000)
6- 5 times: RAONIC (2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016)
7- twice: KYRGIOS (2017, 2018)

Anderson, Tsonga, Johansson, Agassi and Rusedski have managed it once in their career. Nadal and Djoko, never. The end.
So, Fed doesn't servebot??? Look at the company he keeps. I beg to differ.

Cause only the serve has anything to do with hold%

OBVIOUSLY

 

[icedevil0289]

Federe has been improving steadily over the years, but the current field is just not impressed. Bring back the 2003 - 2007 servebot volleyless Roddick, 5' Hewitt, obese Nalbandian, and you got your "aura" back lol.

Rme

 

[icedevil0289]

Trolls want to poke fun at 2003-2007 but guarantee those folks back then could do so much more damage now than lost gen/next gen etc

 

[Tennisgreat]

Like I said UNIQLO is curse..

 

[veroniquem]

Cause only the serve has anything to do with hold%

OBVIOUSLY

Maybe not but look at the other names in the list. Sorry bud but one doesn't get 90% or more as a stat without a kickass serve.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe not but look at the other names in the list. Sorry bud but one doesn't get 90% or more as a stat without a kickass serve.

He also has by far the best ground game of those guys on the list, so he can get 90% despite being a far inferior server.