Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
Have you watched Serena play the last few years? She is often terribly off balance.
2019 US Open Women's Final - (8.) SERENA Williams vs. (15.) BIANCA Andreescu
- Thread starter Enceladus
- Start date
vernonbc
Legend
You're still not quite getting the whole gist of how it works but hopefully Bianca's got a good accountant who does.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Serena has gotten bulkier theses couple years too! Maybe added 50+ lbs to her weight!
Fugazi
Professional
Andreescu has a 38-4 record this year (before the US Open). Has never lost to a top 10 player. She has everything: power, precision, consistency, athleticism, agility, intelligence, mental toughness. But sure, Svitolina is worlds ahead of her!
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Mr Feeny
Hall of Fame
That was weird. And there was another awkward one on the left sideline where she misjudged the height of a put-away. I've never seen that in tennis before. Some audible laughter from the crowd.
Subway Tennis
Legend
It looks like that's exactly what I was doing. Thanks for the heads-up and the correction.
abmk
Bionic Poster
watching the full match now.
1st game was a bad service game from Serena - 2 DFs including 1 on BP. then game play b/w them was even stevens until the last service game. Bianca puts her under pressure & Serena DFs on SP. Very good play from Bianca in the set, excellent serving and clean play.
1st service of Serena in 2nd set, Bianca puts her under pressure with 3 good points on the return and Serena DFs again on BP.
1st game was a bad service game from Serena - 2 DFs including 1 on BP. then game play b/w them was even stevens until the last service game. Bianca puts her under pressure & Serena DFs on SP. Very good play from Bianca in the set, excellent serving and clean play.
1st service of Serena in 2nd set, Bianca puts her under pressure with 3 good points on the return and Serena DFs again on BP.
Sparlingo
Hall of Fame
This income is not taxable in canada because it is not income earned in Canada. The Canadian government does not tax on the basis of "world income", but the USA does. Canada does tax income earned at the Rogers Cup, whether the player is Canadian or not.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
45-4
abmk
Bionic Poster
Bianca putting pressure on and Serena with some sloppy play makes it 5-1 Bianca.
Serena does great to break Bianca from MP down - nothing much wrong that Bianca did tbh.
Then Serena holds convincingly.
The next game, Bianca serving for the match 2nd time -- signs of serves+Serena playing well leads to another break.
Serena does great to break Bianca from MP down - nothing much wrong that Bianca did tbh.
Then Serena holds convincingly.
The next game, Bianca serving for the match 2nd time -- signs of serves+Serena playing well leads to another break.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
So an American playing in the Rogers Cup pays taxes to Canada on his prize winnings. After that, he has to pay additional taxes to the U.S.
American players who earn money abroad disclose their winnings on their 1040, but the taxation of those earnings depends on tax treaties we have with that country, taxes paid to that country for your Foreign Tax Credit, and tons of other factors.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
She has played and won 13 matches in a row, she beat Serena twice in that process.
Hard to tell with those credentials, that she can be beaten by too many good players.
Forget not, her Indian wells victory, where she beat Svitolina in semifinals, and Kerber in the final. Two good players, well she got them.
And even Muguruza, that on a given day can beat almost anyone, got thrashed 6/0 6/1
She is 19 and on the rise.
A few years ago, Bencic beat Serena. Bencic is smart, but it was obvious that she lacks power and stamina.
Well, Andreescu got both, power and stamina.
In the last 3 years, we've seen 3 girls with real power, Serena, Osaka, and Andreescu. Osaka is lost, Serena is fading.
I don't see too many good players that can beat her on ANY GIVEN DAY, as you say.
Sparlingo
Hall of Fame
So an American playing in the Rogers Cup pays taxes to Canada on his prize winnings. After that, he has to pay additional taxes to the U.S.
American players who earn money abroad disclose their winnings on their 1040, but the taxation of those earnings depends on tax treaties we have with that country, taxes paid to that country for your Foreign Tax Credit, and tons of other factors.
I should have been more specific, but the my main point stands - which was the basis for USA income tax is world income. Yes, generally the taxes paid in other countries is credited based on tax treaties. Other countries generally only tax income earned in that country and not on world income. Tennis players seek tax havens not because of prize money income tax but to save income tax on money from endorsements and investments etc. American players generally don't relocate to tax havens because they have to pay American income tax based on world income anyway.
I really like what I've seen,but I have to see how she does on grass and clay before I get too carried away with her as a consistent top player. Few WTA players seem to be able to play really well across all surfaces,Halep perhaps being the most consistent atm...
OutOfBounds
Rookie
I'm definetely not doing taxes for anyone else, don't worry. Looks like there were agreements or something I didn't know of and it was more complicated than what was reported in news article I had read here that had dealt with the subject, so thanks for the correction, but I was mainly trying to insist that it was not the country of residence that was responsible for taxing the prize money.
I'd really only ever heard that prize money made no difference regarding the country of residence. Doesn't look like I was way off on that.
NaomiKonjuhPotapova
G.O.A.T.
Canadian might move to Bahamas like Pospisil, Bouchard and Shapovalov. A lot of tennis player also resides there such as Nick Kyrgios and Edmund.
Also, how the hell Felix Auger is already reside in Monte Carlo? Didn't they have to purchase a property or something? (This is after he made semis in Miami).
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
And what do you think I'm not understanding?You're still not quite getting the whole gist of how it works but hopefully Bianca's got a good accountant who does.
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Anyone know the last time Serena Williams served 44 percent in a grand slam?
zvelf
Hall of Fame
Someone's got a bizarre fantasy of people he doesn't like to engage in racist schadenfreude.
Günter Parche, is that you?
No, I actually agree that Graf has greater achievements than Serena, but Serena is still one of the top five women to ever play tennis, so it's not like there's much to mock.
a10best
Hall of Fame
Well it happens and they're certainly free to do that. She can pay Canada back for their funding. No rule on paying them back in perpetuity. So many Euro players have domiciled in Monaco and American players take up residence in Florida or Texas.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
I believe your main point is incorrect. Most countries consider all the income you made anywhere in the world. It all must be declared. Then taxes owing may be adjusted if you paid taxes to another jurisdiction, and there is a reciprocal tax treaty with that country. What is different about the United States compared to almost all other countries is that citizens are responsible for filing and paying US taxes not based on whether they reside in the US, but whether they are US citizens, or even considered citizens for tax purposes.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
Yes, she should calculate exactly how much funding she received, and pay back only that amount. And if she didn't make it as a professional, like 99.9% of the other juniors in Tennis Canada programs, of course she would not pay anything back. Take advantage of social programs when you need them, but don't feel any responsibility to fund them when you can afford to, and after you've benefited from them - it only makes sense. She doesn't need Tennis Canada anymore, so why should she help them out? She might not even need Canadian citizenship anymore, so move away. If later on if she sees some advantage in being Canadian again, and after she wouldn't have to pay higher taxes, then she could come back.
AM75
Hall of Fame
I just can't get over her ugly net play. But in her Pova match two weeks ago she was perfectly fine.
a10best
Hall of Fame
Well, no. She should pay them back with a bonus or what she feels is fair & appreciative. I don't think she'll give up Canadian citizenship though. So, she may never escape those taxes.
You can't get upset at people relocating for tax reasons. There's hundreds of thousands of ex-NewYorkers, Californians, and people in other high tax states/countries doing just that. I like these states but the savings & potential investments really add up with a relocation. Quality of life is what's important though.
Last year, no? Believe she was around there in the first set v Osaka.
coupergear
Professional
totally agree here. this is my biggest observation. I have not been a Serena fan over the years nor do I watch much womens tennis but she literally seems to be stumbling around all over the court. She's not in balance and terrible preparation. No chop steps, not on balls of feet, just flat footed. Age and weight are catching up to her. she has superior upper body strength and stroke muscle memory to still pull off amazing shots even off balance. against most of the tour she can still dominate but against the top players who are hitting big she is exposed. To me that strange double clutch on the sitter was an example-- just coming into the ball with bad preparation and trying to do it with all upper body... misjudging.
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coupergear
Professional
People may say it's a bad service day for Serena. but the opponent plays a big role. if you're up against someone that you feel like is going to be able to beat you on the baseline that you can't go toe-to-toe in Rallies you are going to try to do more with your first serve and your percentage is going to drop. I feel like Serena was struggling on her serve due to the opponent. It was clear she was not able to hang in rallies and was trying to shorten points thus try to do more with the first serve. I would say her earlier loss to the same opponent set her up for taking more risks on serve.
I think we all know now that Bianca plays like a veteran and feels no pressure that she can't overcome and isn't intimidated by anyone. A future Superstar perhaps?
Maybe but we all should be wise enough now to not crown the next dominate force in womens tennis after one good year.
celito
Professional
Yes to the first statement. I don't like her. How could anyone ?
No to the second. I would have noticed any player doing that.
Fugazi
Professional
Wow, even more impressive!45-4
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
I don't get upset - it's not worth it. Bianca got a lot from Canada that allowed her to get where she is. So if she accepts a system that funds her to become exceedingly rich, i don't think it's too much to ask to also accept the other side of it - Canada's tax structure that provides money for programs such as the one from which she benefited. So she makes 6 million this year instead of 8. It's not so bad.
a10best
Hall of Fame
I agree with you if her giveback + bonus due to her success truly helps other social programs and is not wasted on unproven or low probable success initiatives.
Based on info I gathered from someone I know who had two boys playing at high national level few year ago (they came up with Shapovalov), when the young athletes enter Tennis Canada High Performance Program(s) they are contractually bound to pay certain percentage from their future professional earnings back to Tennis Canada.
This is separate from the federal/provincial income tax everyone pays. Canada has treaties with many countries to avoid double taxation as well. The income earned in a foreign country is mainly taxed in the country of origin.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
As Canada has a somewhat democratic structure, at least citizens can vote to influence what tax revenue is used for. Anyway, back to well done Bianca for beating Serena, and hope she can win a few more.
RayPS97
New User
Serena played better in the second set: In the first photo(1-2), she breaks back to give the fans some joy.
In the second, she holds to win a third game after a long dry spell after just breaking the Andreescu in the game before(3-5). The fans want more and let her know
In the third photo, she breaks again (4-5)...it seems to be working and the fans get even louder. Not sure if this where Bianca plugged her ears...if not...it was the next game where Serena held. Most 19 year olds would be a quivering pile of jelly in that enviroment (crowd knows it) but Andreescu holds for 5-6 and the breaks , again, for 5-7 and the Championship. Damn impressive !!!
I think Serena just met someone that competed better on Saturday...nuff said
If it had gone to a third set, it was anyone's match. Might have to give the edge to Serena, especially with that hostile crowd loudly against Bianca.
Would have dwarfed the 40-15 Wimbledon choke.
5-1
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your best friend
Rookie
Yes. Great work tracking down those images. Impressive.
Serena played better in the second set: In the first photo(1-2), she breaks back to give the fans some joy.
In the second, she holds to win a third game after a long dry spell after just breaking the Andreescu in the game before(3-5). The fans want more and let her know
In the third photo, she breaks again (4-5)...it seems to be working and the fans get even louder. Not sure if this where Bianca plugged her ears...if not...it was the next game where Serena held. Most 19 year olds would be a quivering pile of jelly in that enviroment (crowd knows it) but Andreescu holds for 5-6 and the breaks , again, for 5-7 and the Championship. Damn impressive !!!
I think Serena just met someone that competed better on Saturday...nuff said
I remember all three people though I was referring mostly to number two.
They were all greatly invested in their tennis God, Serena, it looks like but sometimes God does not answer your prayers.
The man I thought might have been in the Williams player's box but I could be wrong.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
RayPS97
New User
The first pic and second are actually of the same person...tough to see from a cursory look at them. She was fist pumping and rolling her wrist like the second coming of Arsenio Hall( A animated GIF be cool...will see).
The umpire did a good job of limiting the crowd from applauding errant Andreescu first serves with a simple "Please". While the Standing ovations mounted with each point/game in Serena's favor....the "crunch time" verve that Andreescu has brought out under pressure surfaced again to take game eleven and a 6-5 lead and eventually another break for the championship.
What I most admired about tennis is the unspoken code that past greats like Laver, Lendl and Connors operated before a match and after a match. Laver was quoted that if he made it the court side seats he was "read to play" with all the physical and mental connotations of that phrase. When Lendl lost to Michael Chang (FO final) and Connors to Ashe(Wimb. Final), they acknowledge they lost to a better player on the day. Serena could learn from them and hold her head up high.
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Meles
Bionic Poster
Also on the Andreescu bandwagon early at US Open once I looked into her record, but did not post anywhere on it.
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