D
Deleted member 744492
Guest
You should remember that Stefanos is really young as well. He indeed messed up on some important points, but overall he's already a much better player than the likes of Grigor Dimitrov and co.
RG 2019 4R: Stefanos Tsitsipas vs Stan Wawrinka
- Thread starter mike danny
- Start date
You should remember that Stefanos is really young as well. He indeed messed up on some important points, but overall he's already a much better player than the likes of Grigor Dimitrov and co.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Stefanos Tsitsipas smacks himself in the face after giving Wawrinka match point
https://video.eurosport.co.uk/tenni...g-wawrinka-match-point_vid1205503/video.shtml
https://video.eurosport.co.uk/tenni...g-wawrinka-match-point_vid1205503/video.shtml
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
True. Does he get mentally stronger with age? Maybe or maybe not. But he will definitely have to, if he wants to be the next big thing in ATP.
Actually when you are younger, you are more fearless and have nothing to lose. For instance, the Nadal of 2004-2010 was mentally stronger than the Nadal of 2011-2019.
Lol. Like him.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Cilic was pretty good in their Toronto match, but not as good as he was at the USO (last 3 matches).
Fed had overplayed - Toronto final+Cincy win+first 4 matches at USO. Form tapered off in the QF/SF of the USO.
Zebrev
Hall of Fame
Stan can't play a 3 hour match in 2 days time.
He was running on empty for the past hour today. And Roger is playing well, not like his form is iffy.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
You say that when the guy is 20 years old in his first dead even b05 match. I think Tsitsi this week has been very strong mentally in his matches. I definitely see him get stronger as the years go by and there is alot of potential, he reminds me of an up and coming champion. Today he messed up but Waw did well too. He will learn from it.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Its funny how much better Delpo was at RG 2009 (his best RG and that semi vs Fed was his best match on clay IMO) compared to Tsitsipas at this RG.
Comparing the 2 losses -- delpo to prime fed and tsit to past his best Stan is no-no IMO.
But given the state of field after the big3 retire, yes, Tsitsipas will definitely win a slam.
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
Harsh on the youngster I reckon. Remember, the man in your avatar went through similar rites of passage results in his early years. He’ll be back, this is a learning loss.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
Was it worse than Youzhny's?
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
What nonsense. Fed beat the absolute peak Nole at FO 2011. He handled him quite nicely in four sets.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
And how do you compare the two losses.? With W/UE stats?
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
We’ll have to wait and see! I think Stan will only really be affected if the match goes long; he should be ok for the first couple of hours and Fed starts to tire after that point anyway.
It’s winnable for Stan, Fed probably favourite...but definitely winnable.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
That was ONE match. Novak was rusty with extra days off. Fed just played a blinder.
Otherwise Fed has consistently lost to peak Novak on hards/grass etc. Which is to say that Fed generally cannot handle a peak Djokovic ( of course likely because Fed is older as well).
Wawrinka OTOH has beaten Novak where Djokovic is untouchable. That is at Australian Open.
Fat Stan has also beaten Novak at RG and USOpen. If not for Stan, Novak would have 2 RG , 1 more AO and 1 more USOPen. He would have been close to GOAT.
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
Yep. But Novak is one example that worked the other way; nobody would think he was a mental giant before 2011.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
Novak is an exceptional case. He went to gluten free diet, spiritual training, ice chambers and made some other drastic changes.
He then transformed into a player of a kind the world had never seen.
It's very rare and I would not expect that to happen to anyone else.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Like I said: for now there is just a difference in quality.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Just watch the 2 matches. Its an absolute no-contest in terms of level.
Day and night. If Fed-Delpo was a 9/10, this match was a 6.5 at best. Talking purely about level, not the drama.
And yes, you can check the whole set of stats as well, not just W/UE.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
LOL Wawrinka has done worse on clsy vs Nadal than Fed. What are you talking about?
abmk
Bionic Poster
oh please. Novak was considerably better in 2011 RG semi than in 2015 RG final.
Also Fed beat Novak in Wim 12 quite handily.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
SLAMINAL!!!!!!
mike danny
Bionic Poster
You really haven't watched much tennis.
Sartorius
Hall of Fame
If it was worse than Youzhny's they wouldn't need to play the MP.
T
Tiki-Taka
Guest
Imagine if Roland Garros wasn't boring, no? 
I tuned in after Rafa finished his match and I have to say it was a wonderful contest. The quality was consistently there. I wish Tsitsipas went through but after seeing the glimpses of him in the last year or so, I am definitely an admirer. Looks very good for his age and the only way is up.
Looking forward to the 2nd week like never before...
I tuned in after Rafa finished his match and I have to say it was a wonderful contest. The quality was consistently there. I wish Tsitsipas went through but after seeing the glimpses of him in the last year or so, I am definitely an admirer. Looks very good for his age and the only way is up.
Looking forward to the 2nd week like never before...
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Basing on todays match on clay: I can't see the difference in quality that you are talking about. Not matching Stans quality was the least of tsitsis problems today. He matched it pretty well and I'd even say he was better although he lost. Did you watch the match?
abmk
Bionic Poster
because he was injured in 2016.
had operation on his knee that year and doctors advised him not to play on clay in 2017.
He had played quite a bit in 2018 and I assume he didn't want to risk+tire himself out on clay in 2018.
And Stan has done clearly worse vs Nadal on clay than Fed has. You'd know if you watched enough of Stan vs Nadal on clay.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree that Fed generally couldn't handle Novak in 2011-2016. There's no debate there. But 2016 USO wasn't peak Novak either. So if we're counting wins against non-peak Novak, Fred denied him more than Stan ever did.
Also Fed's USO SF in 2011 was closer than anyone else got to beating Novak at a slam that year. So the RG SF was one match, but there's no question Fed's game matched up with Novak better than anyone else's back then.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Hats off to Tsits, who with a SF/4R combo at the first two slams this year is the best twin result for the NextGenners.
Sad for Diamond Age that the first three QFists are all 33 or older this week. If Kei holds on we get one non-30something representative.
Sad for Diamond Age that the first three QFists are all 33 or older this week. If Kei holds on we get one non-30something representative.
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
The confidence of youth is great, but it’s clear that on today’s Tour, experience counts. Tsitsipas looks as likely to win slams as Djokovic and Murray were.
prairiegirl
Hall of Fame
I actually called this one; Stan in four.
DanteTheGreat
Rookie
I like Tsitsipas now. I think he played a great match and you could see how badly he wanted it. Impressed. He is a lot better than most of his contemporaries.
D
Deleted member 744492
Guest
He seems to be quite wise for his age and seems to be taking notes from his losses. He might not become a mental giant, but he's not mentally weak even now. This match was very close and he did not really outplay Stan, quite the opposite - he was finding ways to stay on par and even dominate for large parts of the match. The point I am making is that he did not choke this match away, he just managed to make it real close, but was unable to prevail in the end. If he keeps going like that, he will surely pill up a lot of wins and be a solid top 5 player.
Pheasant
Legend
I picked Tsitsipas in 4 sets. Stan came through on the clutch points. I didn’t see the final tally for break points. But Near the end of the match, Stan was 4/12 on break points and Tsitsipas was 5/26, which includes 0/8 in the last set.
This reminded me a lot of the 2015 USO final, as far as converting break points goes.
This reminded me a lot of the 2015 USO final, as far as converting break points goes.
I watched Stan vs Nadal on clay. Simply choosing the least worse option here. 37 years old Federer vs Nadal is one of the worst machups there is.
Last final Fed got to was almost a decade ago. In the mean time Wawrinka won 1 title and played another final. Wawrinka will probably beat Federer in 4 sets anyway.
It's incredible how many overrate Federer based on 4 rounds of playing nobodies. Wawrinka just eliminated the guy who beat Federer rather easily in 4 sets on Federer's best surface in the last 2 years.
abmk
Bionic Poster
you have ?
Lets see. Nadal-Stan have played 8 matches on clay. Stan has failed to win a set in 7 of those (not even a TB), including getting destroyed both times at RG.
And Stan himself is 34 years old now, not at prime level. Got destroyed by Nadal at Madrid 2&1 earlier this year on clay.
Stan-Nadal matchup on clay is just considerably worse than Nadal-Fed one.
I see so you just chose to completely disconsider that the last Nadal - Federer match on clay is almost a decade ago, when Federer was not even 30. He's 37 now man. Wawrinka is the superior clay player at this point in time, and their recent results show this clearly. Didn't Wawrinka beat Federer in the last 2 meetings on clay, at Monte Carlo and RG?
abmk
Bionic Poster
incorrect. The last Federer-Nadal match was in Rome 2013, 6 years ago.
Yes, I did consider that Fed is 37 now, nearing 38. He's still playing better than Stan at this RG - including moving significantly better than Stan is.
I guess we'll see. Federer should beat Stan rather easily then. We'll find our answer come next Tuesday. If you're right, fair enough.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Stan was the better CC player in 2014-2017. Not now. Not after he's back after surgery, with movement clearly declined.
Okay, fair points, but you're basing this on what, a form Federer showed on clay 8 years ago when he beat peak Djokovic in 2011? Rather thin.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I'm basing this on how they have both currently playing in this CC season.
Why on earth would I drag 2011 RG Fed into this ? 2011 RG Fed was miles better.
In this case Waw beating Tsitsipas is the best result any of them did to date on clay this year. Federer would've lost this game imo much in the same manner he lost vs Gulbis a few years ago.
abmk
Bionic Poster
nope. Fed would've taken out this version of Tsitsipas.
He took out a similar form Tsitsipas in Dubai final in straights (Tsitsipas was clearly better at the AO vs Fed). Yeah, I know, this is clay and it'd be tougher given that.
Okay man. This is useless anyway. Both will be lucky to take a set from Nadal.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
mightyrick
Legend
So much anger in this thread, it surprises me. This match was absolutely incredible. I'm surprised everyone isn't ecstatic after seeing it.
These two were absolute warriors the whole way. Both were constantly exorcising their own demons. Tsitsipas fighting his impatience, inexperience, and anger. Wawrinka fighting his physical ailments and age. Both guys were at incredibly high level the whole way. Yes, Tsitsipas blew break points, but quite honestly... many of those were just Wawrinka continuing to go for his shots and bludgeoning the ball regardless of the score. Wawrinka blew several opportunities himself. I thought both were nearly equivalent level. Someone else said it, but it came down to experience in the end. I called Wawrinka in 4... I've never been happier to be wrong. But the reason for Tsitsipas' loss I wasn't wrong about. Purely inexperience.
I'll say something else. If Wawrinka recovers physically even 75% from this match, Federer is going to be destroyed. Up until this point, Federer has not had any kind of opponent to prepare him for Wawrinka's current form. Whereas Tsitsipas is the perfect opponent to have before playing Federer -- both are so similar. Either guy would beat Federer right now, IMHO.
Wawrinka's fitness is clearly there. If Wawrinka's knee holds up for the next week, I think Nadal might be the only one to possibly stop him from winning the whole thing. Wawrinka is in that scary, neanderthal form and mindset -- yet again.
These two were absolute warriors the whole way. Both were constantly exorcising their own demons. Tsitsipas fighting his impatience, inexperience, and anger. Wawrinka fighting his physical ailments and age. Both guys were at incredibly high level the whole way. Yes, Tsitsipas blew break points, but quite honestly... many of those were just Wawrinka continuing to go for his shots and bludgeoning the ball regardless of the score. Wawrinka blew several opportunities himself. I thought both were nearly equivalent level. Someone else said it, but it came down to experience in the end. I called Wawrinka in 4... I've never been happier to be wrong. But the reason for Tsitsipas' loss I wasn't wrong about. Purely inexperience.
I'll say something else. If Wawrinka recovers physically even 75% from this match, Federer is going to be destroyed. Up until this point, Federer has not had any kind of opponent to prepare him for Wawrinka's current form. Whereas Tsitsipas is the perfect opponent to have before playing Federer -- both are so similar. Either guy would beat Federer right now, IMHO.
Wawrinka's fitness is clearly there. If Wawrinka's knee holds up for the next week, I think Nadal might be the only one to possibly stop him from winning the whole thing. Wawrinka is in that scary, neanderthal form and mindset -- yet again.
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