The "What's Wrong With Her?" Thread

NadalAgassi · Oct 4, 2012

volleyandfun said:
problem with Rdwanska is Radwanska herself
she has what it takes to beat any one, and yes, she could have beaten Serena at wimby, and she definitely SHOULD have beaten Petrova in Tokyo
The problem is ...Radwanska
she has to muster some level of aggressiveness to progress

I agree she could have won those two matches and got a bit tight. However it is hard to say she really controls her own destiny too much against those big hitters. They are hitting many more winners and many more errors than her, and while she forces alot of those even unforced errors with her way of playing, she still is never entirely the one in control.

-RF- · Oct 4, 2012

Is Radwanska the mentally strongest in the current top 10? Thoughts? I agree though at times she needs to be more agressive

Soianka · Oct 4, 2012

-RF- said:
Is Radwanska the mentally strongest in the current top 10? Thoughts? I agree though at times she needs to be more agressive

Obviously the mentally strongest player in the top 10 is Serena Williams.

-RF- · Oct 4, 2012

Soianka said:
Obviously the mentally strongest player in the top 10 is Serena Williams.

US Open 09 + 11?

Ico · Oct 4, 2012

Soianka said:
Obviously the mentally strongest player in the top 10 is Serena Williams.

I think the reason Serena and Vika were the top 2 players this year is because they're mentally stronger than the rest. I'd normally give Sharapova an honorable mention, but she essentially had a meltdown against Azarenka at the USO and looked distraught against Stosur in Tokyo. Maybe losing 0 and 1 in the Olympics final will do that to a person.

soyizgood · Oct 4, 2012

Until this year, Kerber never won more than 23 matches in a year. She's got 60 wins in 2012. I think the YEC will determine who's the Most Improved Player between Kerber and Errani.

7 of the YEC spots have been wrapped up. If Li beats Radwanska, she clinches it. Li's basically in even if she loses. If she lost, Bartoli would have to win both Beijing and Moscow.

Doublebounce · Oct 4, 2012

-RF- said:
US Open 09 + 11?

Aga has mentally collapsed at the Us Open for the past three years.

soyizgood · Oct 4, 2012

Azarenka made short work of Oprandi. She obviously wants to finish #1.

-RF- · Oct 4, 2012

Doublebounce said:
Aga has mentally collapsed at the Us Open for the past three years.

simply got outplayed..

soyizgood · Oct 5, 2012

Sharapova was in GOAT mode in the 1st set against Kerber. Now if she could only play that way against Serena.....

NadalAgassi · Oct 5, 2012

soyizgood said:
Sharapova was in GOAT mode in the 1st set against Kerber. Now if she could only play that way against Serena.....

It wouldnt matter since Serena always enters her GOAT mode too when she plays Maria, she hates Maria with a passion and plays like she has a firecracker up her ass each time, and Serena's GOAT mode > Sharapova's.

Tafmatch · Oct 5, 2012

Does Serena really hate Maria so much? Why?

boredone3456 · Oct 5, 2012

Tafmatch said:
Does Serena really hate Maria so much? Why?

I don't think Serena hates her. I think she remembers what it was like.to lose to her at Wimbledon and doesn't want to repeat the experience.

Some of Serena's fans however seem hate her for committing the crime of beating Serena at a major.

Ico · Oct 5, 2012

I think she does kind of hate her though and there has to be a sense of jealousy involved. Serena is the far better tennis player, but she's watched Maria become a star (thanks to her partially) and make far more money because of her good looks.

Focusing on today's tennis, Li Na's new coach is a miracle worker. Not going down in flames at home? Unthinkable.

cc0509 · Oct 5, 2012

NadalAgassi said:
Kerber-Sharapova is almost a toss up. Kerber seems to prefer playing players who hit harder than her where she can counterpunch rather than be forced to be the agressor. Good chance of an upset for Kerber, Maria isnt playing that well lately but does a good job fighting and bluffing her way through often.

Li is crap in Asia as you in the other thread, ErrorNa shows up in a big way on that continent. Radwanska wins. Li wont be that motivated knowing she is already into the WTA final anyway, and finally achieved her goal of a Premier Mandatory title this summer. She is a player who can only motivate herself on select occasions.

Great picks!

Don't buy a lottery ticket today if your above picks are any indication! (wrong on both counts)

cc0509 · Oct 5, 2012

-RF- said:
Is Radwanska the mentally strongest in the current top 10? Thoughts? I agree though at times she needs to be more agressive

No way.

Serena Williams and Sharapova are the most mentally strong players in the top ten. Azarenka never used to be mentally strong but she has improved a lot in that area so she would be the third imo.

volleyandfun · Oct 5, 2012

boredone3456 said:
I don't think Serena hates her. I think she remembers what it was like.to lose to her at Wimbledon and doesn't want to repeat the experience.

Some of Serena's fans however seem hate her for committing the crime of beating Serena at a major.

Don't forget the AO incident, Maria hitting overhead shot directly at juicy plum body of Serena, and then large screen replay showing Serena's lips saying "you b***ch"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Qea_uBBAU

jamesblakefan#1 · Oct 5, 2012

boredone3456 said:
I don't think Serena hates her. I think she remembers what it was like.to lose to her at Wimbledon and doesn't want to repeat the experience.

Some of Serena's fans however seem hate her for committing the crime of beating Serena at a major.

Really, because Stosur, Razzano, Bartoli, Makarova, Jankovic, Clijsters, Henin, etc all get hate as well? Of that list maybe Henin is the only one that gets flak, but we all know what that's from (the hand incident).

Any flak Masha gets probably has more to do with her 1D style of play and screeching ways than anything. I know I've seen plenty on here who aren't fans of either player but root for Serena in their matches bc Masha's game is so damn unlikable. FWIW....

OK, statute of limitations is off. Yes, Serena has extra desire against Sharapova. My sources tell me that it's less about the tennis than the endorsements. Williams knows that Sharapova, despite her inferior accomplishments, earns appreciably more in off-court income. Members of Serena's entourage have even been known to needle her, telling her, "You made Maria the star she is. You created the monster!" (Translation: Serena's failure to beat Sharapova in the 2004 Wimbledon final gave rise to Sugarpova and all that.) Serena's results against Sharapova tell it all.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20120321/mailbag/#ixzz1rlFGWdbn

soyizgood · Oct 5, 2012

Kerber will never win a major for as long as she whittles in the face of adversity. Her composure (lack of) in the Sharapova match just gives me more reason to argue Errani should be the Most Improved Player.

Brian11785 · Oct 5, 2012

soyizgood said:
Kerber will never win a major for as long as she whittles in the face of adversity. Her composure (lack of) in the Sharapova match just gives me more reason to argue Errani should be the Most Improved Player.

She is probably my favorite player to watch at the moment, but she can be a real sourpuss at times. The QF against Lisicki at Wimbledon was horrendous. The fact that she ended up winning the match after playing the third set with such negative body language and attitude is a testament to how poorly Lisicki can play for stretches.

soyizgood · Oct 6, 2012

Wow! Sharapova just made 3 straight DFs....

Now Li has made back-to-back DFs... Now I remember why I hate this particular matchup. It is downright dreadful... 3 DFs this game for Li and now we're at deuce. Ugh!!!!

Absolutely no rhythm in this match.

boredone3456 · Oct 6, 2012

jamesblakefan#1 said:
Really, because Stosur, Razzano, Bartoli, Makarova, Jankovic, Clijsters, Henin, etc all get hate as well? Of that list maybe Henin is the only one that gets flak, but we all know what that's from (the hand incident).

Any flak Masha gets probably has more to do with her 1D style of play and screeching ways than anything. I know I've seen plenty on here who aren't fans of either player but root for Serena in their matches bc Masha's game is so damn unlikable. FWIW....

I probably should have beaten Serena to win a major. Since she became the best in the world ability wise some fans (not all, I am a Serena fan in the sense that when she turns it on she is exciting to watch)...anytime she loses always gets written off. Henin is in some minds nothing but a clay court specialist and Sharapova a brainless ball basher. Henin was openly ridiculed in her comeback as well. All those others all get written off as flukes because they were on clay or because Serena was injured.

Clijsters seemed to have escaped because in 2010 and 2011 she was the only strong alternative to Wozniacki and the rest of the crazy brigade.

Not all fans are like this..I am not per se a Masha fan, and Henins 2007 Wimbledon tanking was an utterly disgusting thing, and the hand incident.does not help either...but they both recieve a lot hate and happy dancing whenever they lose from certain posters.

Ico · Oct 7, 2012

So Masha is humbled by Vika in Beijing 3 and 1. Ouch. This is the first time in Maria's career that she's gone an entire calendar year without winning a hard-court title (runner-up at AO, IW, Miami, and Beijing). A few more terrible losses to Serena and Vika and we'll have to start wondering how much longer she'll stick around on tour.

Doublebounce · Oct 7, 2012

Ico said:
So Masha is humbled by Vika in Beijing 3 and 1. Ouch. This is the first time in Maria's career that she's gone an entire calendar year without winning a hard-court title (runner-up at AO, IW, Miami, and Beijing). A few more terrible losses to Serena and Vika and we'll have to start wondering how much longer she'll stick around on tour.

She is number 2 in the world and is getting to the semis or finals consistently. I dont think we will have to worry about her sticking around on tour.

Ico · Oct 7, 2012

I don't think semis mean much to Maria. She wants to win, and titles are not coming easily anymore. She certainly has a future beyond tennis and I don't think she ever planned to play until 30. I'm not saying she's calling it quits next year, but I could see another slam-less year wearing her down.

kishnabe · Oct 7, 2012

Ico said:
I don't think semis mean much to Maria. She wants to win, and titles are not coming easily anymore. She certainly has a future beyond tennis and I don't think she ever planned to play until 30. I'm not saying she's calling it quits next year, but I could see another slam-less year wearing her down.

It weird that for the last two years she has been one of the best claycourters....winning 5 titles on the dirt.

Who knows....maybe she can pull another RG.

Ico · Oct 7, 2012

kishnabe said:
It weird that for the last two years she has been one of the best claycourters....winning 5 titles on the dirt.

Who knows....maybe she can pull another RG.

I count 4 titles. The fact that 5 of her last 6 titles come from clay, the sole exception being a very ugly win at Cincy 2011, emphasize my point that she isn't a favorite at most tournaments anymore. Shockingly, she didn't even win a set in her 5 hard court finals this year. Constantly falling short may wear on the mind, and we've seen her trademark steeliness desert her this year.

dangalak · Oct 7, 2012

NadalAgassi said:
It wouldnt matter since Serena always enters her GOAT mode too when she plays Maria, she hates Maria with a passion and plays like she has a firecracker up her ass each time, and Serena's GOAT mode > Sharapova's.

It ain't that simple, sunshine.

cc0509 said:
No way.

Serena Williams and Sharapova are the most mentally strong players in the top ten. Azarenka never used to be mentally strong but she has improved a lot in that area so she would be the third imo.

Serena Williams cannot be considered mentally strong considering that her "choking" is the first excuse, whenever she is in danger in a big match. (losing a set to Radnwanska in Wimbledon, losing to Stosur, almost losing to Azarenka, losing to Razzano) Trust me, I follow that WTA forum sometimes, that's what they were saying in the live commentary threads.

soyizgood said:
Kerber will never win a major for as long as she whittles in the face of adversity. Her composure (lack of) in the Sharapova match just gives me more reason to argue Errani should be the Most Improved Player.

Errani is one of the most obvious juicers in recent history. worked with del Moral, suddenly improved out of nowhere to reach 2 semis and 1 QF while doing nothing else in the year.

Kerber might theoretically be on the juice as well but with her, it is far more likely that he is simply hitting her stride now. She is younger than Errani IIRC and she did more outside of the big events which makes the PED angle less likely.

Ico said:
I count 4 titles. The fact that 5 of her last 6 titles come from clay, the sole exception being a very ugly win at Cincy 2011, emphasize my point that she isn't a favorite at most tournaments anymore. Shockingly, she didn't even win a set in her 5 hard court finals this year. Constantly falling short may wear on the mind, and we've seen her trademark steeliness desert her this year.

No we didn't. She had NUMEROUS nailbiter wins she had no business of winning.

cc0509 · Oct 7, 2012

dangalak said:
Serena Williams cannot be considered mentally strong considering that her "choking" is the first excuse, whenever she is in danger in a big match. (losing a set to Radnwanska in Wimbledon, losing to Stosur, almost losing to Azarenka, losing to Razzano) Trust me, I follow that WTA forum sometimes, that's what they were saying in the live commentary threads.

A player who has won 15 slams is not mentally strong? That is silly. Of course she is mentally strong and definitely the strongest mentally out of the women's players today. Sharapova is mentally strong as well, except when she plays Serena and then all of her belief is out the door from all of the beatings Serena has given her over the years.

dangalak · Oct 7, 2012

cc0509 said:
A player who has won 15 slams is not mentally strong? That is silly. Of course she is mentally strong and definitely the strongest mentally out of the women's players today. Sharapova is mentally strong as well, except when she plays Serena and then all of her belief is out the door from all of the beatings Serena has given her over the years.

I don't see how you could think that mentality is to blame for Maria's losses.

Serena isn't all that mentally strong RIGHT NOW, or at least not as much as certain parts of her fanbase claim she is. How else do you explain that "she is choking" is the first thing that they say, whenever she is struggling against a player she dominated in the first set?

jones101 · Oct 7, 2012

dangalak said:
I don't see how you could think that mentality is to blame for Maria's losses.

Serena isn't all that mentally strong RIGHT NOW, or at least not as much as certain parts of her fanbase claim she is. How else do you explain that "she is choking" is the first thing that they say, whenever she is struggling against a player she dominated in the first set?

She has not lost to a top 5 ranked player since her comeback, has 4 losses for this season, and looked stronger than Vika in the USO 3rd set when it came to crunchtime.

She may have a blip during a match but has the MENTAL RESOLVE to overcome and win the match, which is the definition of mental strenth.

She is 19-3 (6-0 this year) against Vika/Sharapova, WORLD NUMBER 1 & 2, who are considered the mentally toughest players.

And she is a an astonishing 44-9 combined against the current top 10.

A golden slam in singles and doubles to boot, yet she is not mentally strong.

Sorry but I dont see it myself.

dangalak · Oct 7, 2012

jones101 said:
She has not lost to a top 5 ranked player since her comeback, has 4 losses for this season, and looked stronger than Vika in the USO 3rd set when it came to crunchtime.

She may have a blip during a match but has the MENTAL RESOLVE to overcome and win the match, which is the definition of mental strenth.

She is 19-3 (6-0 this year) against Vika/Sharapova, WORLD NUMBER 1 & 2, who are considered the mentally toughest players.

And she is a an astonishing 44-9 combined against the current top 10.

A golden slam in singles and doubles to boot, yet she is not mentally strong.

Sorry but I dont see it myself.

90% of these stats you accumulated are her being BETTER than the competition, not tougher.

Brian11785 · Oct 7, 2012

dangalak said:
90% of these stats you accumulated are her being BETTER than the competition, not tougher.

When one player is so superior to the field physically to the point that, anytime she loses it's considered a mental lapse, it is hard to compare her to anyone else. It's sort of a circular argument (Ex: "She is so much stronger than the field that she must've lost because of a lack of mental strength. Hence she is mentally weak.")

I don't buy it. I wouldn't necessarily say that mental strength is Serena's greatest asset. BUT her serves (second serve in particular) are generally clutch in big moments. To me, that is composure = mental strength.

Ronaldo · Oct 7, 2012

Brian11785 said:
When one player is so superior to the field physically to the point that, anytime she loses it's considered a mental lapse, it is hard to compare her to anyone else. It's sort of a circular argument (Ex: "She is so much stronger than the field that she must've lost because of a lack of mental strength. Hence she is mentally weak.")

I don't buy it. I wouldn't necessarily say that mental strength is Serena's greatest asset. BUT her serves (second serve in particular) are generally clutch in big moments. To me, that is composure = mental strength.

By this reasoning, Masha is mentally weak, has a lack of composure against Vika and Serena because her serve is shaky. Even today in China.

Brian11785 · Oct 7, 2012

Ronaldo said:
By this reasoning, Masha is mentally weak, has a lack of composure against Vika and Serena because her serve is shaky. Even today in China.

Hmmm....not so much. That's a real stretch of my original post.

It is not as if a solid second serve in clutch moments like Serena's is the ONLY determinant of a mentally strong player. Unless you actually believe I was saying something this myopic.....

Just because I said Serena having a clutch serve proves she isn't mentally weak, that isn't the same thing as me saying that you have to have a clutch second serve to be mentally strong.

THUNDERVOLLEY · Oct 7, 2012

dangalak said:
90% of these stats you accumulated are her being BETTER than the competition, not tougher.

Better indicates superiority, whuich trumps the flimsy notion of being "tough," since "tough" (if referring to Sharapova or Azarenka) did not lead to winning more than a single major, or making history at the Olympics.

What writer, ex-pro or large body of tennis fandom believes Serena is not the easy candidate for the strongest player in both mental and physical catagories?

cc0509 · Oct 8, 2012

dangalak;6941040]I don't see how you could think that mentality is to blame for Maria's losses.

I didn't say it was the only reason for Maria's losses when she plays Serena as obviously it is largely a match-up issue but there is a mental element going on in that match-up and it is really the only time you see Maria's mental strength fade.

Serena isn't all that mentally strong RIGHT NOW, or at least not as much as certain parts of her fanbase claim she is. How else do you explain that "she is choking" is the first thing that they say, whenever she is struggling against a player she dominated in the first set?

Yes she is! I don't know what her fans say as I don't follow her that closely, but saying she is choking in a match which does not happen often, does not mean she is not mentally strong overall. You can't win 15 slams and be mentally weak.

Ronaldo · Oct 8, 2012

cc0509 said:
I didn't say it was the only reason for Maria's losses when she plays Serena as obviously it is largely a match-up issue but there is a mental element going on in that match-up and it is really the only time you see Maria's mental strength fade.

Yes she is! I don't know what her fans say as I don't follow her that closely, but saying she is choking in a match which does not happen often, does not mean she is not mentally strong overall. You can't win 15 slams and be mentally weak.

It's easy to grin / When your ship comes in / And you've got Serena Williams beat. / But the woman worthwhile, / Is the woman who can smile, / When her shorts are too tight in the seat. Checkout Masha's shorts in Finals. Tight as her fist, eh?

jaggy · Oct 12, 2012

Totty fest at Linz right now

jamesblakefan#1 · Oct 12, 2012

Serena's 35-5 vs the other top 8 players in her career. That's just astounding.

Qualifier No.1: Victoria Azarenka
~ Azarenka vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 14-5
~ Azarenka vs. rest of elite eight in career: 31-26

Qualifier No.2: Maria Sharapova
~ Sharapova vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 11-8
~ Sharapova vs. rest of elite eight in career: 29-25

Qualifier No.3: Serena Williams
~ Williams vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 9-1
~ Williams vs. rest of elite eight in career: 35-5

Qualifier No.4: Agnieszka Radwanska
~ Radwanska vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 5-10
~ Radwanska vs. rest of elite eight in career: 17-32

Qualifier No.5: Angelique Kerber
~ Kerber vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 6-12
~ Kerber vs. rest of elite eight in career: 8-18

Qualifier No.6: Petra Kvitova
~ Kvitova vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 5-7
~ Kvitova vs. rest of elite eight in career: 15-13

Qualifier No.7: Sara Errani
~ Errani vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 2-8
~ Errani vs. rest of elite eight in career: 4-23

Qualifier No.8: Li Na
~ Li vs. rest of elite eight in 2012: 7-8
~ Li vs. rest of elite eight in career: 26-23

http://www.wtatennis.com/news/20121012/istanbuls-elite-eight-head-to-head-records_2256076_2946618

Ico · Oct 12, 2012

In her last WTA tournament of the year (still has Fed Cup), Ivanovic gets a bagel from Flipkens. Another puzzling year for the Ana fans.

Ronaldo · Oct 12, 2012

Ico said:
In her last WTA tournament of the year (still has Fed Cup), Ivanovic gets a bagel from Flipkens. Another puzzling year for the Ana fans.

Will Ana qualify and play the yr-ending tourney in Sofia?

http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781~1901,00.html

boredone3456 · Oct 12, 2012

Ronaldo said:
Will Ana qualify and play the yr-ending tourney in Sofia?

http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781~1901,00.html

Even if she is offered a wildcard I believe she has commited herself to the Fed Cup final which overlaps this tournament.

Ronaldo · Oct 12, 2012

boredone3456 said:
Even if she is offered a wildcard I believe she has commited herself to the Fed Cup final which overlaps this tournament.

Thanks, never realized there is a conflict.

jamesblakefan#1 · Oct 12, 2012

boredone3456 said:
Even if she is offered a wildcard I believe she has commited herself to the Fed Cup final which overlaps this tournament.

Off topic but how the hell is Serbia in the Fed Cup final w/ JJ mentally retired and Ana being inconsistent?

dangalak · Oct 12, 2012

cc0509 said:
I didn't say it was the only reason for Maria's losses when she plays Serena as obviously it is largely a match-up issue but there is a mental element going on in that match-up and it is really the only time you see Maria's mental strength fade.

Yes she is! I don't know what her fans say as I don't follow her that closely, but saying she is choking in a match which does not happen often, does not mean she is not mentally strong overall. You can't win 15 slams and be mentally weak.

Yes you can. Stop saying it like it's some sort of ******** dogma.

She won 13 of those slams several years ago.

Ronaldo · Oct 12, 2012

jamesblakefan#1 said:
Off topic but how the hell is Serbia in the Fed Cup final w/ JJ mentally retired and Ana being inconsistent?

Serbia lucky to meet Belgium and Russia this year.

jamesblakefan#1 · Oct 12, 2012

dangalak said:
Yes you can. Stop saying it like it's some sort of ******** dogma.

She won 13 of those slams several years ago.

By your definition, Federer's probably mentally weak, I'm guessing. Yes Serena has had moments of tightness this year in big matches, but what's she done in every single one of them? Win, period. Skill alone isn't enough to win, Serena's great but the mental part of the game is HUGE and often the difference between a slam champion and a perenial loser. To call Serena a mental midget or say she isn't mentally strong based on this year is a stretch to say the least.

boredone3456 · Oct 13, 2012

jamesblakefan#1 said:
Off topic but how the hell is Serbia in the Fed Cup final w/ JJ mentally retired and Ana being inconsistent?

Because the Belgian team was I believe minus Clijsters and the Russians except for Sharapova(who I believe did not play that tie) are just as flakey and inconsistent and mentally dead as JJ and Ana. And Serbia still only won those ties 3-2..they did not blow them away.

dangalak · Oct 13, 2012

jamesblakefan#1 said:
By your definition, Federer's probably mentally weak, I'm guessing. Yes Serena has had moments of tightness this year in big matches, but what's she done in every single one of them? Win, period. Skill alone isn't enough to win, Serena's great but the mental part of the game is HUGE and often the difference between a slam champion and a perenial loser. To call Serena a mental midget or say she isn't mentally strong based on this year is a stretch to say the least.

She isn't as strong as you claim she is.

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