2005 a considerably better year than 2015 in men's tennis
- Thread starter abmk
- Start date
RS
Bionic Poster
I still think it would take 5 for Safin to win in the final but I won’t too fight hard I have a better MOGood point, 4 sets then. Point being Djokovic was way below par at AO15.
Maybe I undersold the Djoker there
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Wow.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Great breakdown I only disagree clearly on Wimbeldon and would give that to 2015.
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Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
First set USO 2004 final?
InsideOut900
Legend
Really really sucky for Hewitt to lose that one.
He could have pressed more in the 2nd set while Safin wasn't at his mythical peak yet, but that required serious redlining after doing it already in the 1st, too much to ask perhaps.
Really not much he could have done to beat Safin there, just got outmatched.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Peak Safin is the GOAT, true. Curbstomped prime Slampras to win the US and then took down peak Federer in the most stylish match to be played post W01. Also beat Peak Nole on one leg at W08 so we know he’s only behind Sampras, Fed, and Borg at Wimbledon
itrium84
Hall of Fame
Good effort, nice try, no success.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well, it kinda was.
abmk
Bionic Poster
last 2 sets of AO 2004 4R match, man.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
True, Federer's serving wasn't as absurdly overpowering though. Also hewitt was playing pretty much his best the last two sets of 05 whereas he wasn't good in the third set of 04. Safin was not only playing the GOAT big boy tennis but he was also drop shotting Hewitt and passing him, hitting great angles, winners on the dead run, crazy stuff.
abmk
Bionic Poster
yeah, Hewitt didn't play well in the 3rd set of AO 04 4R (still nowhere as bad to deserve a bagel).
Federer kept up his GOATing level in the 4th set when Hewitt played well in the 4th.
So yeah, I'd say that's up there with Safin's level. Safin's play was probably more eye-catching tho' and that's not so frequent comparing with fed.
Hewitt played well in the mid-3rd to 4th set stretch vs Safin, but wouldn't call it his best tennis. He was better in the 1st set for example.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Federer's shotmaking was maybe the best I've ever seen there but Safin's sheer overpowering play combined with the variety he also brought is probably more noteworthy (just because it's happened less frequently like you said).
abmk
Bionic Poster
exactly.
abmk
Bionic Poster
fair enough. I may not agree, but I can see why.
abmk
Bionic Poster
fails to put a single point to disprove any of what I said.
calls the post as no success
the irony
abmk
Bionic Poster
That's where you are wrong.
Coming soon: 2006 and 2015 similar level of competition/level of play overall
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
What is exactly the proper counter answer?
You say 'Safin > Djokovic' so he should write 'Djokovic > Safin'? That's it?
abmk
Bionic Poster
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Highest ranked player he beat at 2004 USO was #5 (therefore #4 opponent).
abmk
Bionic Poster
Wrong.
For example, if someone says AO 15 Djokovic > AO 05 Safin, the proper answer is to counter it with reality :
1. say Djoko was pretty below par in AO 15 semi.
0 winners in set 4
27 winners to 49 UEs. or 85 winners+errors forced to 49 UEs - not good on that AO HC.
2. say Safin beat peak Federer in 5 sets in an ATG match (arguably the best match of all time)
3. say Safin beat Hewitt in AO 05 final, playing pretty well in 2nd set and GOATing from mid of 3rd set till end of 4th set - hitting like 47 winners+errors forced to 8 UEs.
power+variety in that phase.
4. say djokovic played well in the Murray AO 15 final, but not at the level of Safin in AO 05 final. was down a break in the 3rd set, had to rely on mental shenanigans and a complete Murray collapse to win.
etc.
but for this, you'd have to actually watch tennis+know how to apply match stats in proper context etc.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Safin. His level for that tournament was insane, but Djokovic in his 2011, 2019 Final, or 2016 versions wins in 4 or 5
abmk
Bionic Poster
Coria (#3 rank) didn't play in USO 2004. So fed couldn't have beaten him. So yeah, Hewitt was among the top 3 ranked players Fed could beat at USO 2004 (other 2 being Roddick and Moya)
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
No, Hewitt was #5 in the ATP ranking.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Stopped using your brain?
Fed #1 rank
Roddick #2 rank
Coria #3 rank
Moya #4 rank
Hewitt #5 rank
Coria did NOT play USO 2004
So who are the highest 3 ranked players fed could have beaten at USO 04?
Roddick, Moya and Hewitt
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Yeah mine was the synthetic answer. I don't even read your posts. They're long and useless. I only interpret them as '04-07 federer > all based on my personal taste'.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
I never wrote 'players he could've beaten'.
abmk
Bionic Poster
of course you won't read. Reality in proper context is too frightening for the SpewBoy and smashes his agenda to smithereens.
has nothing to do with personal taste.
I rate 2012 over 2004 and 2005 competition wise for example.
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itrium84
Hall of Fame
It's hard to put points into a thick fog of half-true biases, agenda is to slippery for anything sound and reasonable to stand for too long.
abmk
Bionic Poster
your quote:
if someone is not playing at a tournament (Coria here at USO 04) - how can he be an opponent at that tournament ?
three highest ranked opponents for fed at USO 04 were : Roddick, Moya and Hewitt.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Injuries are part of the game. If a player can't compete it's not so different from playing and losing.
Nadal>>>>>Federer
Professional
Your desperation is obvious but your argument is nonexistent.
abmk
Bionic Poster
your quote was:
"I meant one of the three highest ranked opponents."
Coria didn't even enter the tournament. Ergo not a possible opponent at USO 04 at all.
three highest ranked opponents for fed at USO 04 were : Roddick, Moya and Hewitt.
You were wrong by your own newly minted definition after I called you out initially. Accept it. Move on.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Real life slam h2h: 2-0 Safin, no sets won by Djokovic, bagel and breadstick included.
Hypothetical answer: "Djokovic in straight sets, lol".
2005 is very underrated on TT, and it is all about positioning.
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Lew II
G.O.A.T.
No, Coria was among his opponents and skipped it.
abmk
Bionic Poster
not even a potential opponent at USO 2004 if he didn't play.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
So winning a Slam when all players are healthy has the same value as winning a Slam when most top players are injured?
Nadal_Django
Legend
Brutal stat.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
All the players are never healthy. They are just healthy enough to compete. We don't even know the half of what is wrong with them, and what we know only comes out when they share that info.
abmk
Bionic Poster
1 player not participating in a slam has nothing to do with your wild BS.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Who were the Big 4 from 2004-2006?Brutal stat.
Sunny014
Legend
All indicators indicate that Federer is the GOAT.
At his peak outside clay when he was full fit only Safin has beaten him and Safin is the same guy who has 2-0 H2H vs Novak, a more lethal version of Wawrinka who himself is 4-4 vs Novak in Slams, wawrinka is someone who is 0-17 to Federer on HCs overall.
So the question marks of Safin and Wawrinka are on Djokovic, not on Federer.
Federer has crushed Wawrinka and beaten Safin most of the times, Novak on the other hand 2 rivals with same style and very formidable for him.
Peak Federer would have beaten Peak Djokvic in 4 sets everytime, there won't be any clutch involved because matches wouldn't go 5 sets with tie breakers.
At his peak outside clay when he was full fit only Safin has beaten him and Safin is the same guy who has 2-0 H2H vs Novak, a more lethal version of Wawrinka who himself is 4-4 vs Novak in Slams, wawrinka is someone who is 0-17 to Federer on HCs overall.
So the question marks of Safin and Wawrinka are on Djokovic, not on Federer.
Federer has crushed Wawrinka and beaten Safin most of the times, Novak on the other hand 2 rivals with same style and very formidable for him.
Peak Federer would have beaten Peak Djokvic in 4 sets everytime, there won't be any clutch involved because matches wouldn't go 5 sets with tie breakers.
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Sunny014
Legend
Your stats r shiz
Same guys reaching semis every slam means your era is the weakest, not strongest.
Look at 90s, how many same guys reached semis ? Who were the big 4 ?
Someone like Andy Murray makes the semis everytime and loses to the big 3 everytime, this gives a stupid illusion that he is better than Safin or Krajicek .... Some lunatics even say that Murray would have 10+ in other era..... LOL.....but then it is not true ..... Safin has beaten Federer at his best while Andy never could beat even an old federer properly, except that 1 win in 2013 which was in Fed's horrible year and that too in 5 long sets
Jeez ... You need 5 sets beat an old injured man, what is the use of getting to all these semis ??? Obv it means outside the top 4-5 players the rest the field is crappy
RS
Bionic Poster
Yeah he did.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Most of Lew's stats are cherrypicked loads of manure cultivated to make Djokovic look good. Why is this any different? Federer can't get credit for beating top 3 seed because he didn't play in the tournament is exactly the same as "randomly" picking 2011 to start most of these "stats."
The more Lew threads I read the more I'm starting to think that Gerulaitis might be better than Novak.
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