Even if Federer reverses the Nadal H2H, there is still the Slam H2H

[thomasferrett]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

Not only does he have to reverse the H2H, he has to reverse the Slam H2H. The most efficient way of doing that would be to beat him at Slams (thus counting towards both the Slam H2H and the overall H2H). But, with a deficit of 6-7 (can't remember), and his advancing age, it is unlikely that he has enough time to ever do it.

Also, even if Federer overturns the Slam H2H, Nadal fans can simply think of another type of H2H that Federer is losing, perhaps such as the 'European mid-altitude clay H2H' and point to that as a reason for dominance over him.

So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

 

[Tennisanity]

Slam H2H is clay skewed.

End thread/

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

Federer has no work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

FTFY

/thread

 

[Gazelle]

Federer beat Nadal morally at Wimbledon the last 5 years, finishing (far) deeper in the tourny than not so mighty bull.

 

[Sysyphus]

If you control for clay skew and matches on other surfaces where Federer lost, Federer is actually ahead in this stat as well.

Q.E.D.

 

[tennisaddict]

Federer leads h2h on hard and grass.

Nadal leads on clay

Advantage Fed even in h2h

 

[I am the Greatest!]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

Not only does he have to reverse the H2H, he has to reverse the Slam H2H. The most efficient way of doing that would be to beat him at Slams (thus counting towards both the Slam H2H and the overall H2H). But, with a deficit of 6-7 (can't remember), and his advancing age, it is unlikely that he has enough time to ever do it.

Also, even if Federer overturns the Slam H2H, Nadal fans can simply think of another type of H2H that Federer is losing, perhaps such as the 'European mid-altitude clay H2H' and point to that as a reason for dominance over him.

So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

LOL too salty. Let your tears flow.

 

[mike danny]

LOL calm your pants down.

Fed is not reversing the H2H. He is just making it less lopsided.

 

[Mr Feeny]

Federer has no work to do. He's ahead of Nadal by quite a distance. It's about the slam count. It always has.
Federer could be down 0-59 in overall and slam h2h for all I care and Nadal still wouldn't be better as long as Roger leads him in the slams.

 

[NatF]

The slam h2h is 18-14 IIRC.

 

[timnz]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

Not only does he have to reverse the H2H, he has to reverse the Slam H2H. The most efficient way of doing that would be to beat him at Slams (thus counting towards both the Slam H2H and the overall H2H). But, with a deficit of 6-7 (can't remember), and his advancing age, it is unlikely that he has enough time to ever do it.

Also, even if Federer overturns the Slam H2H, Nadal fans can simply think of another type of H2H that Federer is losing, perhaps such as the 'European mid-altitude clay H2H' and point to that as a reason for dominance over him.

So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

This whole thing is based on the assumption that "being better than" is primarily based on H2H. Most commentators would say that achievements eg 18 slams , 6 Wtf's is a much more heavily weighted statistic. It has to be that way otherwise you are saying that Nadal is an inferior player to both Daydenko and Hbarty

 

[augustobt]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

 

[Newballs]

Rog has finally taken Rafa out of his head, he's not afraid anymore.

 

[killerboi2]

Yeah, even these wins don't mean much really. I'm pretty sure Nadal is 1-2 on clay against Murray since 2015 (might get worse this year). Nothing too amazing about beating this version of Nadal.

 

[augustobt]

Yeah, even these wins don't mean much really. I'm pretty sure Nadal is 1-2 on clay against Murray since 2015 (might get worse this year). Nothing too amazing about beating this version of Nadal.

Funny, when Nadal was beating 2013 Federer it was all about praising him.

 

[Pyrolysis]

Who cares?

 

[6-3 6-0]

Troll thread. OP is actually a Nadal hater.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

Step by step, Nadal fans seeing their only argument getting shredded

 

[PeteD]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.
Not only does he have to reverse the H2H, he has to reverse the Slam H2H. The most efficient way of doing that would be to beat him at Slams (thus counting towards both the Slam H2H and the overall H2H). But, with a deficit of 6-7 (can't remember), and his advancing age, it is unlikely that he has enough time to ever do it.
Also, even if Federer overturns the Slam H2H, Nadal fans can simply think of another type of H2H that Federer is losing, perhaps such as the 'European mid-altitude clay H2H' and point to that as a reason for dominance over him.
So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

. . . SIGH . . .

 

[PrinceMoron]

It all started in Miami and has now ended there. They will never play each other again. The circle has closed.

 

[Charlemagne]

Just stop...

 

[HowsItGoin]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

Not only does he have to reverse the H2H, he has to reverse the Slam H2H. The most efficient way of doing that would be to beat him at Slams (thus counting towards both the Slam H2H and the overall H2H). But, with a deficit of 6-7 (can't remember), and his advancing age, it is unlikely that he has enough time to ever do it.

Also, even if Federer overturns the Slam H2H, Nadal fans can simply think of another type of H2H that Federer is losing, perhaps such as the 'European mid-altitude clay H2H' and point to that as a reason for dominance over him.

So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

HAHAHAHAHA. Get outta here.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

It all started in Miami and has now ended there. They will never play each other again. The circle has closed.

Might well be their last ever match indeed.

 

[tennis_pro]

Rog has finally taken Rafa out of his head, his not afraid anymore.

Peak 35 year old Federer taking advantage of poor declined Nadal!

Of course this wasn't the other way round in 2008-2014 at all. Nadal was just too good back then when he was beating Federer at the AO in 2012 or 2014.

 

[swordtennis]

Nadal will always have that. All players have their strengths and weaknesses that's why I like them all. The battles. The tactical strategies.
Let's not take we away from what Federer is doing. Man loves tennis we need that now more than ever for the sport.

 

[Booger]

Lock thread. Ban OP.

 

[Fedinkum]

Federer is better than Nadal...as of today!!

 

[Chadillac]

If nadal always beats him in grand slams why does he have more? What am I missing here?

 

[Rago]

-

 

[steamie]

H2H has never determined which one of Federer, Nadal, Djokovic is better, it lies in which one of these would win the most matches against elite competition across all surfaces, which one of these has the most complete game. Does Nadal REALLY have a more complete arsenal Nadal fans? Real Question here.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Step by step, Nadal fans seeing their only argument getting shredded

Nope, on MTF and other tennis forums there are endless Nadal fans claiming Roger spent 2016 doping. That's their other argument.

 

[Rago]

But how do you judge who is more complete? Peak level of play? Response to Pressure? Variety? Consistency? Slam Count? Different people have different definitions of greatest of one's era.

 

[steamie]

A bit of everything, variety, peak level of play, and tool set being some of the more important ones i suppose.

Throughout all the majors and surfaces, who's more complete? Would Nadal possibly be better on fast grass Sampras era style than Federer is on slow clay for example? How well would Djokovic do against Becker in indoor carpet?

 

[cc0509]

Nope, on MTF and other tennis forums there are endless Nadal fans claiming Roger spent 2016 doping. That's their other argument.

The top guys surely have all doped. They take time off here and there due to "injuries" and cycle on and off. It's absurd and unrealistic to think Nadal and Djokovic have doped but never Federer. Doping exists and is rampant in all pro sports.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[Rhino]

OMG. You'd have to be mad to think Federer "still has a lot of work to do". hahahaha.

 

[Druss]

Yeah, even these wins don't mean much really. I'm pretty sure Nadal is 1-2 on clay against Murray since 2015 (might get worse this year). Nothing too amazing about beating this version of Nadal.

That's right, I mean Nadal is too old now, so any victories over him from mid 2014 onwards don't really count. Also those victories prior to 2008 don't count either because he was too young (but we'll count Nadal's victories during that time period). Oh, lest we forget, 2009 and 2012 don't count either due to injury. So let's just say any victories Fed had over Nadal in 2008, 2010 and 2013 are the ones that truly matter!

 

[kishnabe]

Slam H2H: 18-14, don't see any problems there.

 

[Praetorian]

So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

Doesn't sound so untroubled when you are cherry picking items, and placing greater importance than they should be, just so you can keep justifying it to yourself.

 

[KINGROGER]

Yeah, even these wins don't mean much really. I'm pretty sure Nadal is 1-2 on clay against Murray since 2015 (might get worse this year). Nothing too amazing about beating this version of Nadal.

Sooo... like any Nadal win over Federer since 2010 or 2008?

 

[Sirius Black]

OP is looking at the wrong criteria. He really needs to assess their ability to hit one handed backhands above their shoulder and compare their VO2 max levels

 

[BigServer1]

Yeah, even these wins don't mean much really. I'm pretty sure Nadal is 1-2 on clay against Murray since 2015 (might get worse this year). Nothing too amazing about beating this version of Nadal.

Sure, but beating Fed in 2013 was still really impressive, right?

Fed haters can't have it both ways. Rafa is off to the second best start to a season (results wise) of his entire career. Rafa isn't the player he used to be. Neither is Fed. It goes both ways.

More importantly now Federer leads 10-9 on HC and 2-1 on grass, while Rafa leads 500-2 on clay. For Federer to lead the h2h on two of the surfaces is huge, imo.

 

[smoledman]

Slam H2H is clay skewed.

End thread/

Clay H2H in slams 5-0 Nadal
other H2h in slams 4-3 Nadal

I can see your point. But Rafa can't get to QF/Semis/Finals of WImbledon anymore, much less US open. So Roger won't be able to close the H2H in slams. Sad!

 

[killerboi2]

Sooo... like any Nadal win over Federer since 2010 or 2008?

2008 yeah definitely. Fed still consistently getting to multiple slam finals a year and also multiple m1000s with a lot of slams to come. He was far from done. Nadal is done now. He's never going to win another slam again. 2013? Fair enough but the point is that a lot of people constantly claimed Federer was head and shoulders the GOAT yet Nadal used to beat him all the time until recently of course where Nadal is completely finished.

 

[ghostofMecir]

OP in this and all of his other threads post the AO:

 

[KINGROGER]

2008 yeah definitely. Fed still consistently getting to multiple slam finals a year and also multiple m1000s with a lot of slams to come. He was far from done. Nadal is done now. He's never going to win another slam again. 2013? Fair enough but the point is that a lot of people constantly claimed Federer was head and shoulders the GOAT yet Nadal used to beat him all the time until recently of course where Nadal is completely finished.

2008 he had mono at the start of the year and had definitely declined from his 07 level which was why Nadal completely destroyed him on clay despite he previous years being reasonably competitive.

From 2010 onward Fed hasn't been in his prime. 2015 is the first time since 2007 that they've been on a similar level in terms of being at their prime but sadly they hardly met in late 2014 2016. Making up for it now!

 

[killerboi2]

2008 he had mono at the start of the year and had definitely declined from his 07 level which was why Nadal completely destroyed him on clay despite he previous years being reasonably competitive.

Nah I never really brought that. He made multiple slam finals, won a slam and lost only to Djokovic and Nadal in slams. Also made multiple m1000s finals and semis. He smashed his way through the field at Wimbledon, destroying some of the trash that he used to dominate in 2004-2007 yet again. If he did decline then it wasn't enough to say wins against him don't count. I bet if he had beat Nadal at Wimbledon, we wouldn't have heard nothing about his Mono.

 

[AceSalvo]

Slam H2H is clay skewed.

I remember Federer saying that openly. I dont think he cares about it.

He won the stuff he cares about in 2017 despite the "type/subcategory" of H2H.

 

[Luckydog]

Federer still has a lot of work to do before proving he is better than Nadal.

Not only does he have to reverse the H2H, he has to reverse the Slam H2H. The most efficient way of doing that would be to beat him at Slams (thus counting towards both the Slam H2H and the overall H2H). But, with a deficit of 6-7 (can't remember), and his advancing age, it is unlikely that he has enough time to ever do it.

Also, even if Federer overturns the Slam H2H, Nadal fans can simply think of another type of H2H that Federer is losing, perhaps such as the 'European mid-altitude clay H2H' and point to that as a reason for dominance over him.

So, Nadal fans can rest untroubled.

2005-2008,they only met 5 times on HC,what's your insight ? GOAT Nadal ?

 

[KINGROGER]

Nah I never really brought that. He made multiple slam finals, won a slam and lost only to Djokovic and Nadal in slams. Also made multiple m1000s finals and semis. He smashed his way through the field at Wimbledon, destroying some of the trash that he used to dominate in 2004-2007 yet again. If he did decline then it wasn't enough to say wins against him don't count. I bet if he had beat Nadal at Wimbledon, we wouldn't have heard nothing about his Mono.

He was visibly sweating and fatigued at the AO. Very clearly not 100% at all, struggling in 5 setter vs mug like Tipseravic.

He was also bombing out early at M1000 events to guys like Karlovic, Fish, Roddick. Guys he'd owned for years.

If you need any more confirmation, just use the visual test. Compare his very high level at 07 YEC to his comparatively low level at 08 AO, or 06-07 clay level compared to 08 RG.

Or compare his Wimbledon performance to his 03-06 level. Very sharp decline but still good enough to reach the slam finals. His only top level tennis that year was USO 08. He destroyed Djokovic and Murray in the SF/F, the latter who had owned peak nadal.