TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
@Federer and Del Potro approved.
Tell me we are not watching crap tennis
- Thread starter Lleytonstation
- Start date
Born_to_slice
Legend
It's a great victory for Coric and humanity. Permanent lung damage garbage has been exposed once again. 
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Again, I don't disagree, but I want confirmation. It is unlikely that I will be around to discuss this with you in 20 years. I'm too old.
But I think we need to see what happens. As I have pointed out before, in the early open era it looked as though players like Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver would go on dominating forever. And to be honest, if they had had the science we have today, and the training, and the physios, and the shoes - don't forget the shoes! - and the miracle surgery, those three might have still been giving more problems to Connors and his group. When Connors started winning it was as if everything flipped almost overnight. I'm ready to believe that 30 is the new 25, and 25 is the new 20. But the fact remains that until a few years ago the sweet spot for winning slams remained age 24, right at the beginning of that. So until I assume that 30 and above is going to be the new normal age for slam winners I have to see that stay that way for a decade.In short, I'm leaning your way, but I'm cautious because over just a few years all sorts of anomalies can appear normal or permanent before they reverse.
Color me cautious.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Remove Roddick from this list, I can't find any article or match stat putting his FH higher than 2800s average.
Some articles are putting Tsitsipas at 2400-2900 range. Medvedev is actually in higher 2000s off of both BH and FH.Thiem and Sock,Berretini however AVERAGE higher than Nadal now. Sock does it by a big margin. Berretini however is even higher than Sock.But young Nadal at 3300 beats them all.
Shapolov has BOTH his FH and BH in high 2000s. He has higher RPM on his BH than what I saw from Medvedev in cincy!!!
I didn't think of that. Shapolov can be special
Zverev I saw in Cincinnati was around 2400s.
Amazingly the highest RPM measured is Federer's BH(LOL). It was 5100 RPM BH slice off of Rafael's FH in 4000s.
The current top 10 except Nadal and Berretini don't really have excessively high FH RPMs.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Stopped reading there.
Comedy all around
Rago
Hall of Fame
Here's another fun game: let's try to guess how many games the Diamond age gems will win in each set against Nadal at next three FOs.
Again, I don't disagree, but I want confirmation. It is unlikely that I will be around to discuss this with you in 20 years. I'm too old.
In short, I'm leaning your way, but I'm cautious because over just a few years all sorts of anomalies can appear normal or permanent before they reverse.
Color me cautious.
I think that it is a complex multifactorial issue. As an example, one issue could be technology. If there is appearance of a novel technology implemented by "young" players, they may start beating "old" players due to this novelty. Thus, other factors could disguise as an age issue. However, I believe that it is natural trend that game and players evolve; you remember seventies and how tall players could barely walk.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
No one's forcing you to watch it.This is ridiculous.
Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.
Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.
Djoker has it as easy as it gets.
Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.
Djoker is two or three tiers above what we are seeing.
Tennis is in deep deep trouble.
Born_to_slice
Legend
Exclusive footage of Fedal fans enjoying their sour grapes:
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
the tennis is fine, just like there was a lot of fine tennis back in 04–07. The problem is merely that Djokovic is so much better than the rest now that he's an odds-on favorite even before a slam begins, much like Federer was in the pomp of the Hewitt-Roddick era. Some more parity would make for make for more excitement, now like then.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Sureshs tennis is ten times better.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Without doubt the weakest year in history. Tsitsipas is already 22 and still choking like crazy against nobodies like Coric.
beard
Legend
Why can't most Fed fans be so frankly and realistic?
beard
Legend
True... In my youth I loved one candy, and after that haven't ate it probably about 2 decades... One day I saw commercial on TV, candy emerged in shop after long time... I was very excited to taste it again, but when I did I realized it's just an candy as many others I ate all this time...
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Why can't most Fed fans be so frankly and realistic?
It is because most people that know their tennis know that the above description was far from "realistic".
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
I am open to change my mind, but I simply can't see humongous differences in anything between past and present.
The top 10 still serves around the same speed as those 10-15 years ago. FH BH RPMs of the top 10 are in the same range.(2400-2800)
Average stroke speeds actually pale in comparison to top 10 of 10-15 years ago(Mainly because Delpo,Roddick, Blake,Gonzo were ball bashing and averaging 85+mph at times, highest was Roddick averaging 88.5 mph on FH in a match)
The RPW are higher for great returner in early 2010s (Nadal, Djokovic )
I can't see worlds of improvement. I can only see a different (not too different) playing style and faster players on slower courts with more endurance but lesser touch.
beard
Legend
Hey you forgot to put glasses, go edit the post quickly... Stressful times for big part of ttw... Relax it's just a game...It is because most people that know their tennis know that the above description was far from "realistic".
Tennis_Hands
Banned
There is no need to even say that I am relaxed. Mostly I am enjoying the lunacy around here. It shall pass eventually, but until then ...
RS
Bionic Poster
Mug sport huh?Without doubt the weakest year in history. Tsitsipas is already 22 and still choking like crazy against nobodies like Coric.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Lol someone’s worried that Djokovic is breaking feds records hahaThis is ridiculous.
Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.
Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.
Djoker has it as easy as it gets.
Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.
Djoker is two or three tiers above what we are seeing.
Tennis is in deep deep trouble.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
But let's actually not accept Tsitsipas as a failure yet. I don't exactly like him but he actually will end up being quite successful and he has enough potential to becme a multi slam winner.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
That will suit me very nice. Djokovic is breaking all them records
Yugram
Legend
Federer won Slams in WEAK ERA.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
It will be epic when Novak breaks the slam record
Was it the same level that we see in in-form Fed vs peak Djokovic matches? Was it in anyway comparable to the AO 2012 final between Djokovic and Nadal? We're talking completely different levels here.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Fed and Rafa fans are in meltdown! Lmao
Hahah that's hilarious. You do realise Federer was in his prime in that era, right? What kind of technical faults do you see there?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Tsitsi is not a failure. He just doesn't live up to even moderate expectations as of now, especially considering the hopes for him to become an ATG.
The thing is, the talk is about the state of the tour now, not in the future. What he becomes later has no relevance to his results now.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Yeah I just want to djoker to get us open then it’s been an awesome year and run. He’d have 18 slams and 4 us opens. He can just play freely then on clay with nothing to lose. All the pressure would be on Rafa.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Can you tell me who is in your avatar? He kind of looks like Safin in a suit, but definitely isn't him is he?
beard
Legend
Glasses back... Glad to see you are fine now... All best to you...There is no need to even say that I am relaxed. Mostly I am enjoying the lunacy around here. It shall pass eventually, but until then ...
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
GOAT of weak era, Federer did way worse upto Tsitsipas age.Tsitsi is not a failure. He just doesn't live up to even moderate expectations as of now, especially considering the hopes for him to become an ATG.
The thing is, the talk is about the state of the tour now, not in the future. What he becomes later has no relevance to his results now.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
The great thing is all them guys are on the other side of the draw too! Haha
beard
Legend
Tsitsipas is 22 yo now. Federer won his first slam at 22 yo. So if Tsitsipas win slam at 22 does that mean Fed career has no relevance too?Tsitsi is not a failure. He just doesn't live up to even moderate expectations as of now, especially considering the hopes for him to become an ATG.
The thing is, the talk is about the state of the tour now, not in the future. What he becomes later has no relevance to his results now.
You... Are... So... Funny...
Yugram
Legend
Yeah, I always joke that it’s Safin if someone asks. French dark techno artist Gesaffelstein.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Teat is older than Fedr was when he won his first chelem. True that he was largely a slam mug prior, but everything changed afterwards.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Glasses back... Glad to see you are fine now... All best to you...
You are curiously basing your interpretation of how people feel on a simple emoticon. The last phrase ... curious tendency among the Djokovic base. Similar to your idol's fake "Amor y Paz".
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Implying/asserting the current top level is anything like peak Federer (or Nadal or Djokovic himself at their peaks) is kind of royally insulting though.
Druss
Hall of Fame
Maybe they're complaining because they are just seeing a bunch of 'babies'. Since tennis players peak at 33+, Djokovic is the only one playing peak tennis.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yes, at 22 Federer was considered to have an ATG game.
I wish you Amor y Paz in your next post.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm very sorry that people such as Djokovic and Federer royally insult your delicate sensibilities so often, then.
beard
Legend
You are curiously basing your interpretation of how people feel on a simple emoticon. The last phrase ... curious tendency among the Djokovic base. Similar to your idol's fake "Amor y Paz".
Tsisipas has absolutely nothing to do with Federer and Djokovic's eras!
Federer's era of 2000's was weak, because for most of it teenage Nadal was the 2nd best player.
Djokovic's era of the 10's was strong, because Nadal was out teenage years and in his prime, Federer was still near his prime. And you have 3 very good players: Murray, Wawrinka and Del Potro, who were all better than prime Roddick, the 3rd best player in the 2000's.
BTW, which was the match of the day Friday? Shapo-Fritz or Tsis-Coric! Many of these young players would make a killing in the 2000's.
Federer's era of 2000's was weak, because for most of it teenage Nadal was the 2nd best player.
Djokovic's era of the 10's was strong, because Nadal was out teenage years and in his prime, Federer was still near his prime. And you have 3 very good players: Murray, Wawrinka and Del Potro, who were all better than prime Roddick, the 3rd best player in the 2000's.
BTW, which was the match of the day Friday? Shapo-Fritz or Tsis-Coric! Many of these young players would make a killing in the 2000's.
beard
Legend
I expected better answer... I guess s.h.i.t that you put yourself in post I quoted was too deep... Next time better think of what you are writing...Yes, at 22 Federer was considered to have an ATG game.
I wish you Amor y Paz in your next post.
Beckerserve
Legend
Have to agree. Next Gen lack heart, but also lack variety. They are all mainly serve and FH. Tsitsipas got totally exposed as having no BH and i shall call it now, he will never win a Major. The technical issues on that wing were there for all to see and expect other players to mercilessly target it. The good news for Nadal and Federer fans is they both should be able to bag a few more Majors. Djokovic will have the odd dip so all three could realistically aim for a few more. They have a clear run.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You can't handle a "worse" answer (whatever you think a "better" answer is), so you are still a base level at best.
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