jones101
Hall of Fame
I dunno about that IMO, its too early to tell, though it wouldn't suprise me one bit.
The "What's Wrong With Her?" Thread
- Thread starter soyizgood
- Start date
I dunno about that IMO, its too early to tell, though it wouldn't suprise me one bit.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
She actually would be a good nominee for the biggest headcase as well, she has the past few years blown some big chances. This year in Miami against Venus being one. Probably the biggest was the 2008 Australian though, won the first what, 8 games against Ivanovic, missed what should have been a pretty basic swinging volley, and went on to lose 0-6 6-3 6-4, despite having several breakpoints in both the 2nd and especially the 3rd set. Twice the winner of Indian Wells (2002 beating Hingis and 2007 Beating Kuznetsova both in straight sets), and won the title in linz in 2007 as well. However, despite being in the top 10 several times in her career as soon as she gets there she flakes out, and nosedives. Had all the potential in the world it seemed in 2002-2003...but all that hasn't amounted to much, at least in singles anyway. However, Kuznetsova is the more talented player in my opinion, and would still win the current lead headcase award in my opinion.
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soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Not beating up on Kuzzy, but she hasn't changed since she won the USO in 2004. That was the first match of hers I saw. I could tell she had some erratic strokes, but I saw moments of brilliance there as she had the mindset and talent to dictate play and go for the kill. I figured she'd be able to tweak a few rough edges and then work her way to being the next breakout girl.
Fast forward almost six years and really nothing's changed. All the topspin in the world isn't going to compensate for her tendency to hit late and off-center on her forehand. She has one of the best serves on the tour but she doesn't take advantage of it. Really nice touch at the net but when she's in a tense battle she avoids the net like the plague. It's like she wants to be a topspin freak, blast laser beams, and be an intimidating grinder.....all at the same time. That just won't work. She makes so many stupid mistakes out of frustration and from having too many ideas to choose from. She has an identity crisis when all eyes are on her.
Her problems are basically the same as Petrova's and to some extent Safina's. Instead of of keeping it simple, they are the makers of their own demise when push comes to shove. Now you have Kuz that's erratic and mentally clueless (almost retired after 2008 ), Safina and Petrova that are mentally and physically breaking down.
Fast forward almost six years and really nothing's changed. All the topspin in the world isn't going to compensate for her tendency to hit late and off-center on her forehand. She has one of the best serves on the tour but she doesn't take advantage of it. Really nice touch at the net but when she's in a tense battle she avoids the net like the plague. It's like she wants to be a topspin freak, blast laser beams, and be an intimidating grinder.....all at the same time. That just won't work. She makes so many stupid mistakes out of frustration and from having too many ideas to choose from. She has an identity crisis when all eyes are on her.
Her problems are basically the same as Petrova's and to some extent Safina's. Instead of of keeping it simple, they are the makers of their own demise when push comes to shove. Now you have Kuz that's erratic and mentally clueless (almost retired after 2008 ), Safina and Petrova that are mentally and physically breaking down.
tennismsands
Semi-Pro
I saw the Hantuchova match she was the better player by far throughout the match but Venus edged her in the final stages of the 3rd. good battle though
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Yeah its a little surprising that she lost to some qualifier I have never heard of before, but seeing as Kim just won the Miami title one has to guess she might be a little worn out. Plus, players like that that you've never heard of, sometimes they can get to you if you have no idea what to expect when they take the court against you.
davey25
Banned
Kuznetsova has won 2 slams. She was lucky to win the 2004 U.S Open and won the 2009 French over a joke clay court field, but she still won them. Hantuchova doesnt have to be more talented to be a bigger headcase or underachiever than Kuznetsova as she hasnt achieved anywhere near as much. 2 other slam finals albeit she her draws to the final were a joke both times not facing any of Venus, Serena, Henin, Clijsters, Sharapova, Davenport, Mauresmo, Jankovic, or anyone of much note (Chakvetadze and Vaidisova were her toughest opponents and Nicole served for a 2 set win and choked).
Kuznetsova is a strange case of being both an overachiever and underachiever, one of the few players you can say that of. She is an underachiever since given her talent she should be taking more of these big wins and titles on her own merit, and she chokes away many big opportunities to do so. Yet overachiever since the slams she won or finaled at were more circumstances falling into her lap rather than her going out and taking them vs a strong lineup of opponents.
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soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
thalivest
Banned
So much for the Belgians raising the standard of play...
I dont know what your obsession with mocking the Belgians and basically all the non Russian Europeans are. Kim has won the U.S Open and the biggest non slam title in Miami, she has certainly done very well in her comeback. Her play and results are mysterious in that it is strangely streaky it seems. Justine less well but she has been close to winning 3 of the 4 tournaments she has been in since she came back, including the Aussie Open.
Oh yeah barring a miracle 1 of the Belgians (probably Henin) will still be winning the French Open.
There really isnt anyone else who can win it. Certainly wont be a Williams nor a Russian. Maybe Jankovic is the other one who could sneak it out possibly. So of course with the clay court season now upon us they will be talking of the 2 Belgians above all else. Who else is there to talk about.
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soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
I don't have anything against Clijsters. It's more her newfound worshipers and sudden bandwagon fans I have a bit of a gripe with. I agree she's done well in her comeback, but some of her smack-talking fans have this idea her and Henin are back to "save the tour". As I said before, Clijsters' game was built to hang with the hard-hitters so she was going to have an easier time getting back to the game than Henin.
Henin held the tour together in 2006 and 2007 when Serena was either injured or looked bored, but she pulled a Borg and suddenly left. Henin is a fighter, but as you can see she's got quite a bit of work to do especially with changing her style of play.
As for the French, I just don't see Henin winning it. Her backhand has looked erratic since her return, she has moments of being a DF-machine with her low 1st serve %, and she doesn't really intimidate anyone. In 2007, you were hoping to put up a respectable score against her. In 2008 her aura of invincibility disappeared thanks to Sharapova/Serena/Schiavone/Safina and now she's barely getting by against pushers (barely beat Wozniacki but lost badly to Dulko) while her power game fell apart against Serena. Not sure who takes the FO, but Dementieva/Clijsters/Jankovic/Azarenka might have a say in this one. Not sure Safina's back will be healed in time for it.
I didn't know criticizing Wozniacki and the Belgians was forbidden...:shock: Especially when WTA barely gets any mention on this forum. I must be doing something right. :lol:
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thalivest
Banned
Henin played really badly early in 2008, she was obviously burnt out which is why she retired for a couple years. Even today not at her very best again yet perhaps, she is easily better than 2008 which was probably her worst tennis ever.
I still see her winning the French as even her 70% is better than any of the current WTA's 100% on clay. Like Nadal if she is even coming close to winning on other surfaces winning on clay should be easy for her, even more than her as the other potential championship women mostly suck on clay. Like I said other than maybe Clijsters and Jankovic there isnt anyone else to win the French. It certainly wont be Dementieva, Azarenka, Safina (healthy or not), or Serena.
I still see her winning the French as even her 70% is better than any of the current WTA's 100% on clay. Like Nadal if she is even coming close to winning on other surfaces winning on clay should be easy for her, even more than her as the other potential championship women mostly suck on clay. Like I said other than maybe Clijsters and Jankovic there isnt anyone else to win the French. It certainly wont be Dementieva, Azarenka, Safina (healthy or not), or Serena.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Even in 2008 Henin won 2 events. So far in her comeback 0 titles. I'm not sure what Henin's schedule is, but I'm skeptical she'll play a full schedule.
I'd hold off on calling her the fave for the French until I see her play again on clay. I read somewhere Clijsters disliked playing on clay despite her skill on that surface. Even then Clijsters has fewer clay titles than Venus. I wouldn't call Venus a favorite, but the fact she keeps playing Acapulco leads me to believe she genuinely wants to win it. I agree Serena won't win it but you can't completely rule her out either.
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thalivest
Banned
Venus doesnt have a wing or a prayer for the French at this point in her career. Her name isnt even worth bringing up. She will be gone in the 3rd round around as always. She can want to win it all she wants, it doesnt matter.
Venus was actually a pretty good clay courter in 99-2004 where nearly all her clay titles came. she actually could have easily won a French one of those years, but she is nowhere near that now. Clijsters today is hands down a better clay courter than Venus. Anyway if one feels Kim doesnt have a shot at the French I would say that makes Henin just that much more a favorite.
Venus was actually a pretty good clay courter in 99-2004 where nearly all her clay titles came. she actually could have easily won a French one of those years, but she is nowhere near that now. Clijsters today is hands down a better clay courter than Venus. Anyway if one feels Kim doesnt have a shot at the French I would say that makes Henin just that much more a favorite.
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slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
LOL, I guess clay is only easy on the body of someone who moves well (evidently not those women you mentioned).
For me personally, it's easier on the hips, ankles and knees....and tougher on the quads and calves. And lungs, I guess, because the points are longer and the tennis is less typically anaerobic.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Wozniacki's clay schedule leading up to the FO:
Ponte Vedra, Charleston, Stuttgart, Rome, Madrid, Warsaw
If she's so good, why the need to play 6 clay events before the FO? Her and Nadal need scheduling lessons BADLY!
*getting my bulletproof vest before certain folks try to smoke me*
Ponte Vedra, Charleston, Stuttgart, Rome, Madrid, Warsaw
If she's so good, why the need to play 6 clay events before the FO? Her and Nadal need scheduling lessons BADLY!
*getting my bulletproof vest before certain folks try to smoke me*
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So much for the Belgians raising the standard of play...
So Kim gets the heat just for losing to a mickey mouse tournament after winning the big one in Miami.
How about Serena play some tennis for change.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Serena withdrew from Charleston. Her next scheduled event isn't until Madrid. Unless she gets a wild card for Rome, she'll have been off for something close to 3 months. Heck Serena could wait until the FO as she has 0 pts to defend until then.
Safina is scheduled to play Stuttgart. If that happens, that will be after a 2 1/2 month layoff.
If Serena and Safina don't get it together soon, Wozniacki could possibly make a run for #1 though quite a few things would have to happen especially with her playing 6 clay events leading up to the French. Kuznetsova is only playing 3 events before the French and she has a title and a runner-up finish to defend.
With the sad state of affairs in the top 5 and with Azarenka still wishy-washy, this leaves a lot of openings for Venus, Clijsters, Jankovic, and a few others to potentially feast on.
davey25
Banned
Clijsters, Venus, Henin, and even Jankovic (when in form) are better players than Wozniacki, Safina and Azarenka so I dont what is "sad" if they are replacing them at the top. It would be better for the womens game to have the current weaker players in the top 5 replaced by real champions who are superior to them anyway.
As for Safina with all the points she has to defend she will be lucky to be top after Wimbledon. Kuznetsova will be lucky to possibly be top 10 coming out of the French as well.
I don't know about Safina's physical state, but on clay I would put her, Kuznetsova, and Wozniacki at least as likely to win a clay court match or tournament as Clijsters, Henin, and Jankovic and far ahead of Venus. Clijsters has been good, but has a couple bad losses and Henin isn't back to the form she dominated clay with a couple years ago.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Clijsters is overrated a bit on clay on here (as she is on HC seemingly) by some people. Sure she's good on the surface, but on a good day, players like Jankovic, Safina, Kuzzy, Vika can definitely take her out at the French. Clijsters making the FO final is far from a lock, and she isn't half the player Henin is on clay IMO.
davey25
Banned
I in part agree on that. However I dont think Safina or Kuznetsova will be any factor this years clay court season. Kuznetsova is completely out of form and Safina has been injured or completely out of form since last summer. Viktoria is a big mental wuss in the slams as she showed again in Australia vs Serena. Unless Kim has a day like she did vs Petrova in Australia, Vika wont be beating her in a slam anytime soon. Jankovic is a threat I agree, though her head to head history vs the Belgians isnt promising.
Henin of course is better than Kim on clay but if they meet at the French it is possible the demons from those two close losses on hard courts for Kim this year will begin to creep in again. It depends if Henin regains some of her old swagger atleast on the clay before the French.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
I don't know about that part. At least I haven't noticed that. She tends to hit open stance off her backhand wing which is good for going on the offensive but you sacrifice some control in the process. Her backhand is her best shot though. Her forehand can be hot or cold while her serve is not much of a strength. She's a good lateral mover but her vertical movement can improve a bit.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
What's wrong with Vesnina?
Nothing new with Vesnina. She always loses to top players. She's still never won a WTA singles event. Wozniacki is a MM event queen anyway that wreaks havoc on small events, but always get bullied in the big events.
I really want Vesnina to win at least one WTA singles event. Heck Kleybanova AND Pavlyuchenkova got it done. Even Stosur and DULGHERU snagged one last year...
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jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Nothing new with Vesnina. She always loses to top players. She's still never won a WTA singles event. Wozniacki is a MM event queen anyway that wreaks havoc on small events, but always get bullied in the big events.
I really want Vesnina to win at least one WTA singles event. Heck Kleybanova AND Pavlyuchenkova got it done. Even Stosur and DULGHERU snagged one last year...
I think you should re-evaluate your label of Wozzi as a "MM queen who always gets bullied in big events" - I mean she did make USO final, YEC SF, IW final, and Miami QF putting on a good display against Henin. She usually wins the matches she's supposed to win in these smaller events - is that such a bad thing?
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Wozniacki played 24 events last year (including 6 MM events), 12 of which she failed to make the QF of (including 3 majors). Of course if I even mention the word "Woz" the wolves come after me. Hence my reasoning for calling her a bully at small events, but bullied in the bigger events.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
LOL @ "the wolves" being out to get you. You've already admitted you don't like Wozzi's game, so you can't be expected to be objective about her. But so far this year she's been the most consistent player. You say she gets bullied at big events - the USO and YEC aren't big events anymore? She acquitted herself very well in both of those events. She's still only 19, yet she's #2 in the world and her results are improving in those bigger events you say she only gets "bullied" in. Like I always say, you don't have to like her game, but you should give her credit where it's due for being consistent and not being a headcase like 90% of the tour is these days. Including your main squeeze Vika, but that's neither here nor there. :?
What I noticed is if she has to move backwards some when moving laterally (forcing shot to her) vs. moving just laterally (not as forcing). Or maybe it is just moving laterally when she should move backwards and laterally and so is late or hits a weak shot - not getting behind the ball. It is a very good backhand when she only has to move a little.
davey25
Banned
I like Wozniacki but she needs more power in her game, more point finishing weapons. Right now when she plays Venus, Henin, Serena, Clijsters, or even the top players not as good as them, the match is not in her hands with her current game. Look at the U.S Open final, Kim played a bad 1st set and still won it, then cruised in the 2nd. I think at the WTA Championships she was playing Venus and Venus was making alot of errors and still won easily. To credit Wozniacki she forces alot of those errors with great consistenty, defense, and smarts. She is like the new Hingis in that regard. However she is never going to win a major title with her current game. It is amazing she even make a slam final with her current playing style. She is talented and young enough to improve, but she has to take a close look at her current game and realize that this defense-only approach is not going to even get her any further than she currently is, in fact she wont be holding her position for long at all without some major changes.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
I started a thread on another forum called "Matches that were equal failure". Here are some of the memorable matches from 2009 to now that come to mind.
Sharapova vs Oudin USO
Dementieva vs Jankovic Cincinnati
Li vs Venus Australian
Clijsters vs Henin Miami
Kuznetsova vs Serena French
Sharapova vs Kirilenko AO
Clijsters vs Kleybanova Indian Wells
Sharapova vs Oudin USO
Dementieva vs Jankovic Cincinnati
Li vs Venus Australian
Clijsters vs Henin Miami
Kuznetsova vs Serena French
Sharapova vs Kirilenko AO
Clijsters vs Kleybanova Indian Wells
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davey25
Banned
Henin vs Serena in Australia wasnt great either. Henin didnt play well at all execution wise or tactically and was unable to take her multiple chances in that match of beating even a fatigued and injured Serena. Kuznetsova vs Serena at last years Australian Open was not much or any better than their French Open match either. Sharapova has been involved in a number of other doozies which she either narrowly won or narrowly lost, battling through crappy play and her opponent choking her way down to Maria's shaky level in those matches.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
I forgot to throw in Clijsters vs Kleybanova Indian Wells. Maybe it was because I was trying hard not think about that one again. Clijsters was a total headcase in that one while Kleybanova looked like she was running without a head all match long.
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jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Just wanted to point out that she and Venus didn't play at the YEC last year. That may have been another match they played in. But other than that I pretty much agree w/ what you said. And I think if you watch her match vs Henin you see that she can be aggressive at times when necessary, even though it isn't her comfort zone at all. And she's actually done well whenever she's faced Serena - had MPs in their match last year in Sydney and was doing well at the YEC even though she was clearly injured.
I was just trying to point out to soy that she is improving in those big matches and his constant label of her as a "MM queen" should at least be reconsidered, and it isn't such a bad thing to win in these small events considering all the inconsistent headcases on the WTA who lose in them anyways (one of them being soy's BFF Vika).
jones101
Hall of Fame
I agree. She also played more aggressive after her injury at the YEC last year, I remember being suprised at the pace/depth of her FH. It was not of the Serena/Kim power by any stretch, but definitely good enough to finish a point. Topspin though is her comfort (esp on her FH).
I dont think she is confident enough at this point to hit out on the big points when there is a lot on the line, but she will only get better (and more comfortable with her experience), and seeing as she is no 2 now, the future is bright for her. Her game can only get better I feel, and her core game now is too solid for a lot of the BBB's.
She definitely has the ability to dictate points.
grandslamdane
New User
So... just one final remains today.
Does anyone know if and where its streamed? I havent been able to find any Ponte Vedra Beach streams at all.
Does anyone know if and where its streamed? I havent been able to find any Ponte Vedra Beach streams at all.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
I'm looking for a stream. I might have to talk to some folks on tennisforum for a hook-up.
grandslamdane
New User
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Thx soy, I appreciate it
I haven't gotten any response from those guys. Woz leads 4-1. Given that Govortsova ALWAYS loses finals, might as well just name Wozniacki the winner.
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Love Game
Talk Tennis Guru
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